My three boys all went to public school. When my eldest went to Kindergarten Home Schooling was just getting started. In our state about 400 were homeschooled when he started school and over 4,000 by the time he graduated. There's a reason for this.

If I were to do it today, knowing what I know now...homeschool in an instant. I hope my grandchildren are homeschooled.

What I saw over the course of the last 15 years or so, not only involving my own kids but those of my friends and neighbors isn't good. It doesn't mean that I didn't think there were some good teachers along the way. There were. But just in general I got the feeling we were letting our kids down by sending them to public school, but by then it was too late for me to homeschool. I felt like I was constantly undoing what the schools were teaching. Qute a few of the teachers were, what I considered, immoral. Some were very outspoken about it. Nothing is sacred anymore.

From what I've seen over the years, there's a big diff (generally speaking) from the kids that go to public school and those who are homeschooled.

Most, of the educators today in the public schools do not share our religious, or political viewpoints and make it clear they are not interested in hearing the other side in discussions. Most of this becomes an issue in HS. It's totally one way now and if you're not playing the game their way, your child is made to feel like a misfit because he may have an opposing viewpoint. I've even seen grades lowered and there's not a darn thing can be done about it. The kids know. Most of the time they know to keep their mouths shut. It shouldn't be that way.

So my answer to your question is NO. Public Schools are not BEST for kids.

ParaTed2K posts:

Yes, parents have prime authority over their children's upbringing and education and teach them according to their standards and values.

When they turn them over to the school, this implies that parents have delegated partial authority over to the school. In this sense, schools traditionally function, in loco parentis, i.e. in place of parents.

And this is where the problems lie. These are children, young children, and when they are away from the comfort and solice and guidance of mom and dad and placed in a classroom situation with peers or a teacher who contradicts those family values and standards, what are these youngsters going to do? Most often, they'll go along to get along.

If your primary goal is to shelter your child and bombard him with constant religious instruction, then NO, public schools are not best for your child.

Thank you all for pointing that out because I definitely agree.

And I'm not sure where everyone else is sending their children to school, but my children have morals and rules shoved down their throats all day long. There is no debauchery or gay agenda.

Be safe. Be kind. Be responsible.

That is what they learn at their school.

This is actually a misquoted statistic. the real statistic is that 1 in 4 didn't pick up a book. If it was really only one quarter of the population reading, I'd have killed myself a long time ago.

Hey, that was my experience in public school. I don't know what the deal is everywhere else, Brandie . . . surely it must just be the concentrated area in which we are. I'm sure they suck the big one everywhere else.

Jythier: Ooh, I'd love to talk to her. We could compare hopes & worries! The Columbine thing happened 4 years before I had any children, and ever since then when I think of how my [future] children would be educated I get overwhelming butterflies in my tummy that urge, "Homeschooling!" I'm not a sensationalist-type person either...those butterflies and constant promptings must mean something.

FS about the preschools we checked out:

At both schools I requested to tour the facilities and meet the teachers. We got the tours at least. The teachers have all been "in meetings" over the past couple weeks and have been unavailable. Unfortunately we had to choose schools before we could meet the teachers because it was crunch time and we had to make a decision. So we chose the prettier one We'll be meeting his teacher at an appointed P/T conference tomorrow.

ParaTed2k:

Amen. Also I heard one homeschooler's perspective on the socialization issue: If our goal is to raise children to be responsible, productive adults, what better way than to immerse them in an adult society while they're children? Conversely, in public schools where children far outnumber the adults, children merely learn to act like other children.

Buuuuuut...in our personal case, social isolation probably WOULD be a huge concern. I'm a total homebody.

So that's why as I'm thinking out loud here I'm grasping for something between PS & HS...which is what Brandie pointed out...Montessori would be a fabulous environment...but PRICEY. OUCH. At least a good cause like that would totally motivate me to work for income. Montessori would be SO worth it, I hope.

I love the Montessori approaches. We've used some things from that method, such as 1)not putting our babies in cribs. The Montessori method suggests a mattress on the floor in a safe, child-proofed room so that the baby learns independence as soon as he can crawl, and if he falls out of the bed, meh, no big deal; 2)Every room in the house is a welcome place for the baby / child (just make sure everything's safe; 3)letting the world be a museum, where everything is a learning tool & experience...(And oh my gosh, that takes so much patience I could explode sometimes! But it's taught me to slow down.)



Good question. If anyone from Admin sees this, can you tell us what JoeKnowledge.net is exactly?
A couple years ago I posted an education-themed article, which the administrators said met some criteria for something called JoeKnowledge.net and all I had to do was sign up for it through something they provided. So I signed up. All I know is from then on every time I initiate an article I have to click whether I want it to go to JoeUser in general, or to Knowledge.net. (I figured this article might qualify. They haven't yelled at me yet anyway.)



Well that reflects an issue I have. I do indeed feel like an insignificant nobody who's waiting my turn in the line of life, perhaps because of 1) always being a number or a name on a roll call sheet, 2)being a customer at stores & banks; 3)being a peon in the army, 4)as a patient in doctors' offices, etc.

I wouldn't wish that feeling of insignificance on anyone. I may be projecting my issues onto my innocent children, and over-correcting my parenting where my parents may have wronged me...that may not be so great, but my intentions are good.

I want to be sure that my kids have at least ONE person in this topsy-turvy, impersonable world who's watching out for their best interests. By stepping up to be that one person (at least), I'd like to make sure none of their subtle quirks go unnoticed, especially if they require some redirection...and I want to be sure that they're not thrown into the lions' den of the world just because I think it'll make 'em stronger. I'm aiming for a balance of love with the harsh realities. I think that's realistic enough.

Ha! That's not it at all.

I wanted my children to be educated not indoctrinated in humanistic theology in the school system. Everything we taught our kids, was trashed by the educators. We're talking, morals, language, sex education, and just common decency.

We had one teacher tell a whole classroom they shouldn't listen to their parents because they were old enough not to. He also told them to get out of their parent's home as soon as they were able. He also used the F-word daily. He told my son to put his f-ing lunch away. How's that for a PS teacher?

This same teacher (English) was teaching "porn" to the kids via modern reading books...come to find out this was college age material. His class was full of Juniors who were about 16 years of age. Thank God, he was eventually fired after we endured the whole year of doing his damage.

Would you like your son to be sitting in class reading a book about "niggers" and how a castration was done when they hung them from trees? Play by play. Blood drop by blood drop? And while you're at it, the same man coming home from this castration not being able to have sex with his wife?

My son got a low C in this class (his strongest subject) because I was the ring leader in complaints against him.

What kills me, if a kid even dares mention the word "bomb" can get kicked out of school.

No TW, you are so naive if that's what you're thinking. This has NOTHING to do with religious instruction. Far from it.

Just want to say, that as a public school teacher, I try my darndest . We worked our butts off last year to become a recognized school, and this year we plan to work our butts off again to become exemplary (I work at a low income school, btw). We try our best to balance our instruction so that we don't overdo the testing and strict structure. We obviously do not have the up-close-and-personal atmosphere that homeschooling has, but we certainly try to give it our all with what we have.

Anyway, I say if you have the desire to homeschool, then give it a shot...but don't dismiss public schools so easily.

Do you have the option of sending your child to a school outside your district (they allow that in some districts here)? If you do, then you can keep looking for a public school that better suits your taste.

Okay...I'm off to bed. School started here on Monday and I already have a Parent Night to get ready for on Thursday.

A bit off the topic here: A student of mine asked me today if I was married. When I said no, she said, "Awww" and pouted at me...as if she felt sorry for me...lol. Another student shook his head at her and said, "Don't you know that's a very personal question and you shouldn't be asking it?"

Kids are funny.

Oh gosh I'm reading more tidbits here and there of some comments:

1) I'll make it clear at this point that full-fledged homeschooling is probably NOT going to happen right away, if at all. Buuuut if we do eventually go the homeschooling route I hereby vow that I will not isolate my children. I envision joining forces with other homeschooling families. That would be a good route to keep a foot in the real world, with other kids & moms to keep things real, dynamic, socially-rich, with lots of outings all over the place (hey, we won't need permission slips, waiver forms, or government funding!!) while keeping with the personalized learning environment.

2) And I heard San Chonino's cry of "I would have slit my wrists if my parents kept me for homeschooling!" Well buddy, I would hope that if your parents had homeschooled you and saw you squirming in agony, I hope they'd be in touch enough to make things right and put you back in school if that's what's best for you! Good grief!

The bottom line is that I want what's best for my kids. Every child is different and as my little uns' personalities unfold we'll keep reassessing what's best for them.

I personally would have thrived on homeschooling, if my parents had been good for it (they weren't, but I like to fantasize).

On the other hand, San Chonino said that the public school system suited him perfectly. See? Everyone's different.

I'm thrilled that so far we've got the opportunity to customize our children's educations, while valuing their needs all along the way.

It's such a daunting feeling standing at the threshold of their young lives, knowing that everything we do or don't do is shaping these kids' formative years.

Of course there is the very down-to-earth part of me that sees the idealism for what it is, so I'm braced to throw it all out the window to prepare for ANYTHING.

KFC, don't you work for a public school?

What a hot topic!

Sounds like you are thinking a lot about this Angela. Your kids are lucky to have you.

Keep us posted on how it goes. Your experience with the new school.

Most, of the educators today in the public schools do not share our religious, or political viewpoints and make it clear they are not interested in hearing the other side in discussions. Most of this becomes an issue in HS. It's totally one way now and if you're not playing the game their way, your child is made to feel like a misfit because he may have an opposing viewpoint. I've even seen grades lowered and there's not a darn thing can be done about it. The kids know. Most of the time they know to keep their mouths shut. It shouldn't be that way.

Actually, I disagree. I myself an a die hard Christian. Pentacostal. With the huge numbers of teachers out there, most, if not all religious views are in the classroom setting. HOWEVER, we are stuck in that area with the sep of church and state and all where we can't talk about religous views. I myself don't. Quite a few times last year, religon was brought up and I quickly side stepped it. We can't talk about it. Our political view points? I don't bring politics up either...actually that is rather hard to do in an elementary setting, at least how I see it.

This is actually a misquoted statistic. the real statistic is that 1 in 4 didn't pick up a book.

You are correct, thanks for the heads up. Double checked it.

Note to Ziggy...YOU AREN'T A TEACHER.You have a teaching degree, yes.You taught one school year and were not invited to return.You then worked as a PARA-Educator, (at a different school) supervising in-school detentions. You were not invited back the following year.You then stacked boxes at WalMart.You are currently unemployed.You have a teaching degree. You are NOT A TEACHER.

Sabrina...for someone who wants no further dialog...its interesting how you continue to attack me by taking specific parts of what I write, ignoring my constant corrections and use them to your benefit when you know completley well you are, as usual, twisting the truth. Get it right or just give up.

And I'm not sure where everyone else is sending their children to school, but my children have morals and rules shoved down their throats all day long. There is no debauchery or gay agenda. Be safe. Be kind. Be responsible.That is what they learn at their school.

Mine too!

Basically, what San Chonino learned from this discussion:

1. You can make glossy, convincing arguments on both sides of this issue. Some malign public schools, saying they'd never let their kids go these days. Others snub homeschool, saying that public school is better if only for the social interaction.

2. Neither argument is truly convincing (especially the one about the "agendas" of either school of thought. I'm sorry, but public school had no "agenda" when I was there, people. Wait - maybe they did. And that "agenda" was to make me a well-educated, well-rounded individual in many, varied aspects and areas - which it did very well).

3. I'm glad that I was in public school; my children will go to public school. Good on you who homeschool, but I've got college kids to teach.

AngelaMarie88 posts:




Every school should willingly provide parents with a complete curriculum of all the academic and particularly the social subjects, including materials, videos, textbooks and reading books that they will be using throughout the school year. This is true for pre-K through 12th grades.

Most public schools today teach sex-ed to pre-k students(only it's never called sex-ed) through its health, science or physical education departments. It's called "family life" or "family health" education, or something benign sounding like that. In my area, a group of us parents fought for well over a year to get a copy of the preK-8th grade "Health" curriculum. After countless letters, phone calls, emails and school board meetings, we were finally given a vague 'outline' from the school district nurse. Turns out the actual curriculum was something called Promoting Healthy Sexuality, a state funded, state produced product of the state planned parenthood organization.

It has been brought up in this discussion that students are taught to be 'safe'. True enough. In my area, in the name of teaching 'safety', 4 and 5 year old student's innocence is robbed and their natural latency period violated through being classroom viewing of the video, Good Touch/Bad Touch. This is shown without express parental permission.

Yes, we'd prefer they get molested and not know how to react. That's genius, lula!

Where do you come up with the nonsense that people must have children in school in order to have an opinion about education? I don't live in a vaccuum and I also keep close account of what my taxes are paying for.

There seems to be a vien of late that unless you have walked the walk, you are not eligible to talk the talk.  I dont subscribe to that.  After all, these are just opinions, and opinions may be based on experience or not.  I dare say that with the exception of Gideon, none of us has run for public office, but that does not stop us from spouting about it.

As for the topic itself, I would have to say as a rule, no.  Public school is not the best for our children.  They are the best given the economies of the options (homeschooling and loss of an income versus using your tax dollars to pay someone else, etc.).

Having homeschooled one child, and done both private and public education, and having worked in education for ten years, I have seen most every side.  For my Family and area.  So my opinion is not based on any empirical studies, just experience.

Home schooling is best for education, not for socialization.  Private schooling is better than public schooling because your dollars are seen by the institution, so they are way more responsive to parents than are the public schools.  But even in public schools, for an involved parent, it can be almost as good as home schooling and as good as private if you get the right teacher (and that takes work to figure out as the administration - mostly composed of a bunch of brain dead teachers - will never tell you who they are).

There is no cookie cutter for everyone.  Evidently, single parent homes cannot home school, and even most 2 parent homes cannot due to money considerations.  Other than for the upper middle and rich, Private schooling is not an option for most people.  Which leaves the educator of last resort - Public Schooling.  And as I said, if the parents are involved (and you can work  and still be), they can make that experience a very good one for the child as well.  And everyone is already paying for that one.

I thought Gid homeschooled, and that Gid was not upper-middle.

Most 2 parents homes have overextended themselves based on their two incomes and so can not afford to pay off their debt, or keep the same standard of living, if they cannot both work. It's a lot harder to start off being married with the idea that you are going to save one entire income in order to prepare you to live without it. Imagine that, if a couple lived off of one $40,000 job instead of 2? Saving $40,000 each year? I can live off it with two kids, so it's doable for sure.

Dont let sentences confuse you. I said:



And about Upper-middle:



Obviously, there are exceptions so hence the word "Most" in both sentences which were 2 different situations.

And when my son went to private school, we were far from upper-middle or rich. So we sacraficed a lot to enable him to go.

Ah, Dr. Guy, I'm guilty of misreading you. I thought you said other than upper-middle or rich couldn't HOMEschool, not private school. Pardon me.

If I had said that, Gideon would be BBQing my tail off right now!  

Crack don't smoke itself, people.

My wife and I are continuing homeshooling our four children, this year. We've dealt with teachers that know more than medical doctors (and not just a "doctor", one of the leading pediatric neurologists in the country as well as a second opinion from another hospital) and teachers who constantly assume that we are willing to do their jobs for them. Every night our kids returned home with 3 - 4 hours of homework. If they have to send that much home every night, what are they learning in school. Other disagreements (including our daughters Kindergarten teacher saying that her reading is "behind". Would you call a 6 year old reading Harry Potter and the Philospher's Stone (and comprehending what she's reading) as "behind"?

My wife and I discovered that, for OUR family, homeschooling is the better option. Even the kids grandmother, my mom, agrees that our kids are better suited for a homeschool environment. And she's 35 year veteran of public school instruction. This is not the same for all families, though. I've seen some families that were better described as neglectful, where the mom homeschooled just so that she'd have babysitters around.

Money wise? Pshaw. I make $50k/year working as a computer programmer. Sure, I could make more, but the majority of the companies in the area are not willing to risk the higher salaries on someone w/o a college degree (even if I'm working towards said degree). My wife and I decided years ago (and recently reaffirmed this decision) that the best place for her, is raising and educating our children. Sure, things can be tight, but they work out. We just have to get creative. Not quite as creative as Gideon, but some of his ideas are worth checking out.

As for socialization, well... let's just say they get plenty. Between the frequent outings with local homeschool groups and the neighbourhood kids and church groups, they're constantly dealing with peers their age. Additionally, as has been noted, they're also learning to function in an adult world. And one of my kids, the autistic child, prefers that.

As for socialization, well... let's just say they get plenty.

The lack of socialization with homeschooling (in my comment) was not meant to mean there can be none.  Only that what passes as public education (and private schooling as well) is one part learning and one part socializing.  As you have pointed out, making the effort to provide that - beyond the requirements of home schooling - is what responsible parents do.  It just is an extra field trip instead of a walk in the school yard each day.