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Galactic Civilizations: The case for no multiplayer

Galactic Civilizations: The case for no multiplayer

Not all strategy games benefit from multiplayer

Galactic Civilizations is the only Windows game I've ever worked on that isn't multiplayer. 

The first Windows game I developed, Entrepreneur, had multiplayer. It included a built-in chat area and match-making.  Stellar Frontier also had multiplayer -- up to 64 players on a persistent world.  The Corporate Machine had multiplayer.  The Political Machine had multiplayer.

In short, I've worked on a lot of multiplayer games.  Moreover, I play multiplayer games. As was pointed out on-line, I played Total Annihilation, Starcraft, Warcraft 3, and several other strategy games a great deal on-line in a "Ranked" capacity.  I've tried out nearly every major strategy game from Master of Orion 2 to HOMM 3 to Civ 3:PTW/Civ 4 multiplayer.

From this, I've concluded two things:

1) Some strategy games really benefit from a multiplayer component. Multiplayer extends their "fun" lifespan.

2) Some strategy games don't benefit from multiplayer and the sacrifices made for multiplayer lessened the overall experience.

To people who don't develop games, multiplayer may seem like a simple checkbox feature.  Indeed, many developers I've spoken to feel pressured to put multiplayer in because some reviewers will give the game a lower score if it lacks it despite the fact that for most strategy games, the percentage of players playing on-line is very low.

But multiplayer brings sacrifices that many people may not be aware of. Galactic Civilizations II was developed so that multiplayer could be added later (i.e. it passes messages back and forth).  But the gameplay was not.  We were not willing to sacrifice the single-player experience for multiplayer.

I'm going to give three reasons why multiplayer does not make sense in Galactic Civilizations as part of the base game.

#1 It sacrifices single player features.  Ask any game developer whether they be at Ensemble, Paradox, Firaxis, or Big Huge Games, most people play strategy games by themselves on a single computer.  What % that is depends on the game. But on a TBS game, I would wager that greater than 95% of players never play a single game on-line even if the option is available -- that includes Civilization IV.

But developing multiplayer is incredibly time-consuming and expensive. In our last game, The Political Machine, a full third of the budget was for multiplayer. The game was ideally suited for multiplayer, published by Ubi Soft it would sell a ton of copies.  The game came out and sure enough, only a tiny percent of people played the game multiplayer.  That tiny percent didn't justify the 33% budget dedicated to them.

My favorite game of 2005 was Civilization IV. It has multiplayer in it that is as good if not better than any implementation in the history of turn-based games.  But what was sacrificed in exchange?  There's no campaign.  There's no in-depth scenarios.  No in-depth random events.  You can only trade certain items and techs back and forth no matter what.  Do you think this is a coincidence?  No random civil wars based on certain criteria?  No war-causing assasinations? No crusades? Not even once in a long while?  I suspect that there were a lot of concepts and features that Civ IV would have had if it didn't have multiplayer.

When we were making Galactic Civilizations II, we took a poll on multiplayer. Only a small percentage of GalCiv I players cared about it.  We took additional polls since multiplayer advocates were so vocal.  Same thing.

So instead, Galactic Civilizations II got ship design and a campaign.   I think most people would agree that we could have taken GalCiv I, slapped a 3D engine on it, given it multiplayer and been in good shape.  But can anyone who's played the beta imagine the game without ship design?  And when you play the campaign, I think you'll find that was worth it too.

Moreover, players get a lot more single player experience.  There are rare events that players may only see once in a great while but they're worth it -- a religions war that breaks empires in pieces. New republics formed from remnants of shattered civilizations.  Civil wars. Precursor ships found on worlds. Powerful artifacts that slowly increase the power of a given civilization so that everyone has to team up on them. Terrorists. On and on.  In multiplayer, this would all have to be turned off, but then again, if there had been multiplayer, whey develop any of this at all if it wasn't always going to be used?

Similarly, there's diplomacy.  Last night, I played as the galactic arms dealer.  The Drengin and Torians were at war and I was supplying both sides with ships for money. I then took that money and slowly bought up the worlds of dying civilizations.  That kind of flexibility in diplomacy would be a nightmare in multiplayer, you'd have to put all kinds of restrictions in the name of balance.

#2 The majority ends up subsidizing the minority. Outside some game reviewers and people who have friends who are really into this stuff, most people don't know other people on-line to play these games with.  And let's face it, playing a turn-based strategy game with strangers is an excercise in frustration (I am not sure I've ever actually managed to complete a TBS on-line without the other player either dropping or quitting prematurely).

Galactic Civilizations II is $40. Not $50.  That $10 may not seem like a lot to some people but to many gamers it makes a difference.  Check out the prices on the latest multiplayer strategy games -- they're $49.99.  Part of that price is to subsidize the multiplayer component that only a tiny percentage of users will play.

If there's sufficient demand for multiplayer, we'll do it -- but as an expansion.  Those who want multiplayer can then buy it and those who don't aren't forced to pay for it.  And everyone wins because they saved $10 in the first place.

Because of the Metaverse, GalCiv II already has multiplayer plumbing.  We even have a multiplayer design.  But it'll cost money and time to implement it. So if there's demand, we'll do it. But it has to be demand in raw numbers, not just vocalness of the people who want it.

#3 It would have changed the design priorities.

When you design from the start to be a good multiplayer experience you have to make sure the game is streamlined -- particular the interface.  So things that might slow the multplayer pacing tend to come out.

Galactic Civilizations has lots of mini-cut scenes in it.  Things to help the player enjoy and savor the civilization they've created. The technology tree is huge and designed to linger through and pick just the right one.  The ship design is full of extras that are there so that players can make cool looking ships.  The battle screen was implemented to be not just functional but fun to watch. The planetary details screens include quotes from random citizens and there's flavor text all over.  Each civilization has its own vocabulary based on who it is talking to (i.e. how a Torian talks to a Terran is different than how they would talk to a Drengin).

But a good multiplayer game has to be far more streamlined. You don't want to have core features that encourage users to do anything but move their units and make their decisions efficiently.  Take a look carefully at any decent multiplayer games recently and notice how efficient they are.  Efficient is great in a multiplayer game.  But in a single player game, there is something to be said I think for inefficiency -- for fluff.

And because we designed the game from the ground up to be a single player experience, Galactic Civilizations II has a LOT of fluff:

The screenshot below, I designed all the ships in this particular game. Every new game I make new ships. Why? Because it's fun. It's not efficient though from a sheer "get to the next turn quickly" point of view:

And what's the point of sitting there watching your ships battle it out?

In fact, there's a ton of things that involve reading quite a bit of text. There's a lot of customization within the game that has no "point" other than to let players indulge in the civilization they've created.

It's not that a game with multiplayer can't have these things. Civilization IV has the Civpedia for instance.  But the tendancy in a good multiplayer game is to move the text and other stuff out of the way during gameplay and out to a place where it's looked at at ones leisure.  And that's a good idea in a multiplayer designed game.

But these days, nearly all games are designed with multiplayer in mind.  And for people who have no shortage of choices on multiplayer, it's nice to have a good old fashioned single player experience where you can sit down and indulge yourself to the full experience. 

I remember a game called Master of Magic back in the early 90s. It was a great game. But it was only a great game because it was single-player.  The things that made it really neat would have been a disaster in multiplayer. 

And that's really the point -- multiplayer is a feature. Sometimes it makes sense and sometimes it doesn't.  In some RPGs sometimes they're better being single player (Knights of the Old Republic) and sometimes they're better being multiplayer (Neverwinter Nights).

For those who think multiplayer is a must in strategy games I hope this post has at least made the case that maybe sometimes multiplayer doesn't belong in the base game. 

We know how to make multiplayer games. We had the budget to make GalCiv II a multiplayer game if we wanted. We like multiplayer games.  But we felt that GalCiv II would be a better game if multiplayer was not part of the base game. 

 

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Reply #251 Top
Actually, all I have is Windows Moo2 It's all that's on my disk. I'd like to be able to obtain the DOS version, but I don't know where.
Reply #252 Top
Actually, all I have is Windows Moo2 It's all that's on my disk. I'd like to be able to obtain the DOS version, but I don't know where.


There is still a simple solution (works for 99% without pure dos version):

See steps 3 and 4 in this http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2004/02/moo2-online.html

Add the rkernel.com file and apply the official 1.31 patch there (it contains the missing files of the dos-version) and proceed...
Reply #253 Top
I bought the game because I thought it had multiplayer. I know, I SHOULD have done some research on the web first, but you have no idea how sick I get of having to surf the net for every single game I buy just to find out if they've added the features that I'm after ! Whether it's rational or not, I feel that you have ripped me off for the money I handed out. I made the assumption that if #1 has multiplayer, #2 would have multiplayer - geez, how stupid of me ! I really should have gone and read your forums before I bought it - not ! It should have been clearly stated on the box - "This game provides an awesome single player experience, but no multiplayer has been added" - something along those lines.

What information have you used to determine that very few people play games multiplayer is what I would like to know ? You keep using the word "online" - and I agree with you there. Playing pick-up games online with people you don't know is just not that great, and very few people do it (does depend on the game). However, I contend that a LOT of people play on home-based nets or play hotseat with this style of game. I find game content even in single player to be a lot less fun if I know that I will never be sharing that content and that experience with my friends in multiplayer. You had a survey apparently and didn't get many votes for multiplayer - perhaps the people playing multiplayer weren't bored enough to be hanging around on your boards filling in your survey and instead were playing your game, or some other game that did provide a good multiplayer experience.

We've played an aweful lot of games multiplayer over the years, and the games that were good for that are the games we all bought a copy for and continued playing for a long time. In this case, none of my friends will be buying this game after I've bought it - you've lost 5 or 6 sales immediately - multiply by all the other like-minded people out there, and look at how many sales you've lost. Will you gain as many sales from the people who prefer a single-player only game ?

Oh and just by the way, we never ended up playing GalCiv 1 multiplayer either, even though I really liked it in single player, because some weird ass designer at your end decided that no one would want to play the game at the lowest speed setting or want to pause in multiplayer. Yet another case where the designers' pre-conceptions about how THEY play games have been imposed on the game to the detriment of having as many people as possible enjoy your game.
Reply #254 Top
A Multiplayer Part is a must have for a round based game like GC2. The only good reason you mentioned is the money. Im sure that you just want some more money with selling a expansion pack with multiplayer modus. People have to pay twice for a half product.

The arguments you mentioned of ppl who dont play multiplayer part of a game like in CivIV are old fashioned. Actually no game on the market would have a survival chance without a Multiplayer part (exception : Follow up products of classical games like Moo2). Just look at the evergrowing forces of MMORPG Gamers. They even pay monthly to get the experience that you think is not necessarry in that game. "Its all about compatition".

So if you had the money to implement a MP Part in that game, the only reason you didnt do so in my humble opinion, is the extra money you will surly earn when you sell the MP Exp Pack and no else. This may typically for EA Games or other big puplishers, but im very disappointed that this new fashion of getting more money from rich ppl has reached the smaller business level of game programmers and devs.

With great respect for that great game!
Warduc

Reply #255 Top
Greetings:




Zygus: I wish I could say that I am happy to see that I am not the only one to have the problem you described when purchasing this game. Like you, I expected a game of this nature to have Multiplayer options from day one. Such options are standard nowadays. Or... So I thought. I agree that more information should have been present on the webpage link, but like I said earlier, stating that this game was SINGLE PLAYER ONLY would have cost Stardock ALL of the Multiplayer sales. Gamers who prefer this kind of game are not, as a rule, uneducated nincompoops. If we are surprised by some aspect of the game, the reason is that it is contrary to what we would expect. Multiplayer features were not added by the release date, they have not been added yet, the Developers state that adding them would easy and that the game was designed with them in mind, and yet have not given any dates concerning their addition. I have checked on the prices of similar games (Civ4, Total War) and they are just as expensive as this one (And they come with a printed manual and a CD, not downloaded) if not cheaper, while immediately offering multiplayer options. So, I do not concede the point that making this game Single Player Only made it cheaper in any sense but the least desirable one.


Reply #256 Top
As a GalCiv 2 player, I couldn't care less about multiplayer. I think multiplayer means a lot of fun for a game like Op. Flashpoint, though.
Reply #257 Top
Whether it's rational or not, I feel that you have ripped me off for the money I handed out. I made the assumption that if #1 has multiplayer, #2 would have multiplayer - geez, how stupid of me ! I really should have gone and read your forums before I bought it - not ! It should have been clearly stated on the box - "This game provides an awesome single player experience, but no multiplayer has been added" - something along those lines.

Galactic Civilizations 1 didn't have multiplayer. So yes, it was kinda stupid of you to assume that #2 had it just because #1 also had it, when it in fact didn't. It had the metaverse which #2 also have but that's all.
Reply #258 Top
Galactic Civilizations II is $40. Not $50.


Where?

It cost me $45 off your own website.

Plus S&H.
Reply #259 Top
I am very sad. As I am a bit grown up I swore off single player games in my late 20s. I have long since decided that if I cannot play a game with real friends or at least other people, I will not play them. My life is much to short to not spend it with friends and family. From all I have read, this game would finally have given me something close to MOO2 to play with friends. All I can do is hope you choose to make it multiplayer someday. I would be purchasing it NOW if it was. Now I must go back to waiting and reading and hoping.
From what I have read most people that like strat/sci-fi love it. I hope you continue to prosper and I live long enough to see a multiplayer strategy game like moo2. Heck at this point I would settle for moo2 that ran on xp-pro and the upcoming vista os's /sigh.
Reply #262 Top
I think it was a good idea to focus on the single player game. This type of game does not lend itself well to online multiplayer. Did all you MP fans try the single player game a couple of times? A game can take 5+ hours to complete. Not many people can assemble online to play that long.

If you want to compete agaisnt others online, there are plenty of other games to play. There are enough MMORPGs, FPS and RTSs foes out there to keep anyone busy.

But adding certain MP features wouldn't hurt at all. I think the 1.3 patch should add hotseat and play by e-mail. Those two things should not be too hard to do for a patch.

MP would be nice to play though. I would like to see the ship designs of other people ingame. And computer AI can only do so much. Anyone would read some gamplay examples posts can tell you that.
Reply #263 Top
I beleive people dont want MMO stuff.

Hours is nothing

A PBEM game can go for a year or two easy.
Reply #264 Top
Yes many of us await the multiplayer option providing us HOTSEAT, PBEM and LAN... because of cheaters and quitters I doubt most serious players would trust multiplayer online with strangers. If multiplayer does get added... I guarantee just like every other game which has multiplayer... there will be so many players a seperate multiplayer forum will be needed. Like others I eagerly await to buy the game once multiplayer has been made available.
Reply #265 Top
Definitely no MMO. It wouldn't make a lot of sense. That being said, to me "LAN play" does include playing against your friends over the Internet, which is why I said IP-based...

One thing I crave, but won't bother asking for since it would require such a fundamental change to game mechanics, is a system in which everyone enters their moves in advance, and then they're executed simultaneously. The problem of resolving simultaneous actions was handled rather well in an old Avalon Hill strategy board game called Diplomacy (and it's many pencil-and-paper predecessors).
Reply #266 Top
Ya I agree too. The games I play are WAY too long to be played in a multiplayer fashion.
i.e. on a large map with plenty of races. The only way I could see multiplayer being done
is if you had a save feature and play a few turns at a time; or you could play like mail chess.
But at that point the fun gets sapped right out of it .
I wish this game could be multiplayer, but it realy can't. Maybe it'd work out as a nice board game
like risk.
Reply #267 Top
MMO is Masive Multiplayer Online. An example could be Anarch Online or Everquest.

Basically you log onto a server and play.

PPL seem to want the ability to setup LANs, PBEMs, IPs and Hotseat without the problems that come with MMOs
To do these things the computer used is the one that needs the software; No server needed.
Reply #268 Top
*First Post*

For me, I would totally pay for a multiplayer add-on for GalCiv2.

The arguments for not having it completely make sense, and I am very happy the commitment was made to have more content/depth to the single player experience. My wife was the one who got me into TBS games by introducing me to Alpha Centauri, and even today we continue to play that game together. From experience, I can say it is really hard to get someone to play a TBS game with you and enjoy it... but the experience is well worth it, both cooperatively and competitively. I myself probably would not play in an online anonymous TBS game... but I would gladly pay to have more games with my wife and other friends.

Just make sure you can save! Being able to save your multiplayer games and come back to them is vital. It means you can always come back to a hard fought battle and spread it out over several days.
Reply #269 Top
If you like Alpha Centuri talk to me for we are making a MOD for CIV (C4:AC) so we can do our AC stuff with an updated program.

Also to help you look for people go to Apolyton.net.

There is also lots of GC stuff there.
Reply #270 Top
I liked Multiplayer in MOO2 very much.
I think i wouldn't play Galciv 2 on the internet with strangers but on LAN with friends.
MOO2-single player was only the start for me after that I played very long LAN-sessions.
Reply #271 Top
I remember a game called Master of Magic back in the early 90s. It was a great game. But it was only a great game because it was single-player. The things that made it really neat would have been a disaster in multiplayer.


Amusingly enough, Master of Magic is the game that that GalCiv II reminds me the most of. One of my favorites, long after its shelf life. I keep trying to get it to run normally on my current computer with little luck. From the 'research to win' victory condition to the customizable ships/customizable heroes to just the method of building up cities/colonies, the two have a lot in common in my mind. Not a bad thing at all.
Reply #272 Top
I really don't see why the devs need to explain themselves on this issue when it was the move to multiplayer design that nearly killed the 4X genre in the first place. Taking all the good bits out so players wouldn't be waiting an hour per turn gutted the genre and left it limp and useless. The only people complaining about the lack of multiplayer are people who probably complain about everything and just like to whinge.
Reply #274 Top
The only people complaining about the lack of multiplayer are people who probably complain about everything and just like to whinge.


Yeah, it's IMPOSSIBLE that those people choose to discuss it because they actually want to see the option. It's purely an excuse to complain. I can hardly wait for the next opportunity to present itself!
Reply #275 Top
I need Multiplayer Hotseat ..better TCP/IP. I love games like Civilization, Alpha Centauri or MOO and of course Hearts of Iron, but i only play a few times Singleplayer. I don't like to play alone. I don't play Campaigns.... and a MP-Session can last hours,days,weeks..that does not matter. (ever played HoI2 with 4 players? ^^)