Uninstalling and reinstalling the game since these updates messed it up for me...

but as much as I don't want to say it I think the devs did thr right thing by pulling the latest build.

I really wasn't.  I did not research many of the new civilian techs.  I did not notice tech faults because I did not research them.  I wanted to try out the Titan.  I did not get very much time with the Advent, so of course I would not have noticed every little thing.  I did not even get to build a Discord.  Discordia?

I played for 30 minutes and didn't even get to build an Advent Titan. They looked so epic in that opening cinematic. The new graphics on the advent ships and the effects on weapons fire was pretty cool. This made me sad that they retracted it, but I understand that Stardock and Ironclad have their own schedules to keep. I'd just like to know when this or a new patch will be made available.

You don't pay for the Beta, you pre-pay for the final release normaly planned for the summer ( or later )... being able to use the Beta is a bonus...

As the point of pre-ordering... it was better to pre-order with Stardock for several reasons... first, the 10$ discount for previous owner of Trinity/Diplomacy... Second reason is the insane change rate of Steam, the well know "1$ = 1 euro"... now, Rebellion have cost me 23.51 euro ( 29.95 $ )... when the game is released on Steam, if the discount apply, it will have cost me 29.95 euro ( 38.15$ )... without discount on steam, it will be 39.95 euro ( 50.89$ )... so, if i don't pre-order on Stardock store and waiting the Steam release, it is very possible that i will need to pay more that 2 time the price that i have pay with Stardock...

In your case, you have at least enjoy the discount since your are not new to sins... this is your "point" for pre-ordering it... for european customer, it spare us from the infamous 1$=1euro from steam...

By the way, i remember that when pre-order was started, Stardock was not yet sure that all people who have pre-order will have access to the Beta... being able to play the Beta is the extra cherry on the top of the cake... you have pay for the cake but the cherry is a bonus !!! 

C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\sins of a solar empire rebellion\eula_rebellion.txt

"YOU MAY:
1. Install and use one copy of the SOFTWARE on a single computer.
2. Install a second copy of the SOFTWARE on a second computer only if you are the main user of this computer (home computer or laptop for example).
3. Install the SOFTWARE on another computer only if you change your main workstation. In such a case you must uninstall the software from the old computer.
4. Use the SOFTWARE via a network, only if you have purchased an adequate number of licenses. The number of users must not exceed the number of licenses you have purchased.
5. Make a copy of the SOFTWARE for archival purposes only.
6. Create "mods" based on the documented functions of the SOFTWARE to customize it and upload those "mods" to sinsofasolarempire.com.

YOU MAY NOT:
1. Copy and distribute the SOFTWARE or any portion of it except as expressly provided in this Agreement.
2. Sublicense, rent, lease or transfer your personal serial number without express written consent from Stardock.
3. Sublicense, rent or lease the SOFTWARE or any portion of it.
4. Decompile, disassemble, reverse engineer or modify the SOFTWARE or any portion of it, or make any attempt to bypass, unlock, or disable any protective or initialization system on the SOFTWARE.
5. Copy the documentation accompanying the SOFTWARE.
6. Upload or transmit the SOFTWARE, or any portion thereof, to any electronic bulletin board, network, or other type of multi-use computer system regardless of purpose (except as provided for above for "mods").
7. Include the SOFTWARE in any commercial products intended for manufacture, distribution, or sale.
8. Include "mods" in any commercial products intended for manufacture, distribution, or sale."

Well, I was going to be testing out the new entity modifiers with the dev.exe and ConverData this week...

But noooooooooooo....apparently I will be going to class now and doing homework...what a pity, I might actually pass my classes and have to graduate on time....thanks a lot Stardock...

Will you blind fanboys stop avidly defending every little thing this company does?

"Oh, it's their right to do it! You're not entitled to be a beta tester! If a Stardock/Ironclad's employee runs over a cat it means the cat is to blame!"

If you'll look on my profile you'll notice that I'm a loyal fan for quite a while (back since 2003, and even before that), but this blatant sycophancy makes me cringe every single time. It is you guys that need to chill.

The company dropped the ball, plain and simple. You don't give something and then just take it away. In order to really fix this, you just put a big exclaimer that this version wasn't supposed to be released this early, hence it is even more buggy than it should and you should only play it at your own risk and leave it at that.

That being said, I don't really mind they did it, I HATE the Advent, especially their incessant whiny/hissy female voice (I have enough of that from my wife, thank you very much. And even she got pissed off at their sound when I tried them in the 'leaked' beta). You need to get it to your thick skulls that fans are not paid beta-testers, therefore they're completely entitled to vent over this poor decision, so stop with this argument already, admit that they were wrong and move on. Sheesh. It wasn't the first and it won't be the last.

Technical question: How do you find out something like this? Does the ship info-card say that? If yes, how do you know, its really happening? 

@Ron Lugge and "waaah" post: If you look at my posts closely, you would see, i was not really throwing my toys out of pram, not because of any bugs, not because of this 0.75 faux-pas. Yes, i said it was IMHO a mistake to withdraw the 0.75 version, and i still think it was.  But how is stating something like that over-reaction and deserves your kind of "waaah" post?

And for the last time: no, there were no kind gestures from devs involved with this beta, its totally irrelevant that other company would withdraw my money, and you know why? Cause other company would NEVER get me to preorder anything from them just like that. I do not preorder games, unless there is some kind of incentive to do it, like access to beta or perhaps discount, or whatever else. How is that difficult to comprehend?

@Gormoth01: Totally agreed, basically, what i wanted to say. 

However, the fact that we get to play the beta, in any stage is not a right that the fans have, it's a privilege. We paid the full price for the pre-order of the game, not early access. Yes, companies generally do have testing departments as well, but I'd like to see one that can get a testing team that can test every little nook and cranny of the game and its mechanics. People should be grateful that they are allowed such early access of the game, not demanding that unfinished features be added back in, when they were removed because they weren't in a state the company deems complete.

They made a mistake, they apologised. Deal with it

@Gormoth01

Think you are missing the point, at least MY point.  I don't think anyone is defending what was done initially.  They should not have released the content they did, that was a screw-up.

The issue is whether there is anything really to complain about with this Beta screw-up when it comes to the game itself.  Pointing out the mistake is moot.  First of all, only they were aware that a mistake was made...and they fixed it.  I'm sure they are looking (have looked) into why it happened and wish to prevent it.  But what's done is done, they had to fix it and to fix it they had to.  And quite frankly there were only two courses of action...pull it or leave it.  And pulling it is far smarter than leaving it.  Leaving it...just makes no sense, it would be essentially derailing the Beta for the sake of making a few entitle-boys (not sure what the inverse of a fan-boy is).

Sure there could have been a warning so that people could disable auto-updating to lock in their version.  But that would be essentially saying.  "Here is something that doesn't represent what we want you to have...but you can take it anyway."  That is a completely irresponsible stance to take as a company.  I have worked for companies that do this...and they pay for it in the long run. 

Well the employees do at least, and it annoys the crap of of anyone dealing directly with customers who complain about their sub-par purchase that they wanted despite the apparent understanding it was going to be sub-par.

Customers lie, they say they want something, use it, then get disappointed and blame the product / company.  The philosophy that the customer is always right is broken and leads to mediocrity.  A customer just won't have the vision that the creator of a product has.

Blizzard and Apple are good examples of companies that have the philosophy of: Make a great product and you will make your customer.  Although I think Apple has ridden the I-brand fan-boy wagon too hard, Jobs personality was strong enough to filter out what his customer will want from what his customers say they want.

Fan-boys? (lol *sigh* years ago maybe :)), but no. 

It's just a pure and simple fact that I can not see how in the heck people are having problems with this Beta.  I can see my father having trouble and getting fed up, but anyone my age or younger?  I can only assume they have no experience with Steam, haven't held a job directly dealing with customers, have never heard of what happens during a game's development, or are just plain so self-entitled that they are blind to the fact that sometimes there are reasons beyond the small part of the world you see why things happen.  (eh more harsh sounding than I mean it to be)

I'm no fan-boy.  I just know that I spent 30$ on a game that I know I am going to get more enjoyment out of than any 60$ game that is likely to come out in the near future and I am supporting a company that historically, I believe, has had a great outlook on vision, design and customer relations.  As a bonus I get to tinker in Beta and provide feedback.  I enjoy troubleshooting, which was a large part of another job I've had.

@Timmaigh

Sorry but your complaints are not reflected in Gormoth01's post, just because someone has a viewpoint that is different than those who don't support yours...does not mean it supports yours.  I saw nothing about him complaining about getting ripped off.

There just is no room to complain, and this is @everyone.  If you don't want updates, disable them. If you want your money back, go get it.  If you pre-ordered for a discount, you got it...so I don't see a problem there.  If you pre-ordered to play the game early, well that just isn't going to happen and well I would assume that one would know what 'Beta' means by now.  If you don't want to Beta test, just wait till it's released.

Finally if you just want to complain for the sake of attention or trolling, just please don't. (I doubt you are, but some may.)

I had the strangest dream......

Agree with K-64 and dctrjons.

Did the company make a mistake in the early release? Yes

Did they apologize for the mistake?

Yes

Do they have a right to do this? Yes

Should we whine about it?

NO!

I am completely serious here, do not want to troll.

I wanted to say, what Gormoth said, i just restrained myself from calling people defending StarDock "blind fanboys". If i made myself unclear in this regard, its down to my lacking language skills, i apologize for that. Anyway, where specifically did i complain about being ripped off?

If you look at my previous post, i was talking about the same as him, more precisely about the fact, we are not paid betatesters, so we have every right to complain, if we like. Other than that, you do not really see ME doing that. I was not bashing devs for any bugs, the game worked for me just fine. I merely stated taking the version back was a mistake in my opinion and since that, i was just arguing people over the "beta as privilege" nonsense. 

In the end, i disagree with your notion, there is no room for complaints. There is always room for that, and frankly, in this particular case, the reason is not the game or what the devs did or did not anymore, but people apologising them, like they can do no wrong or something. 

@K-64> No, we have right to be in the beta, because we paid for that right. They tied the early access to preorder, from that moment on, you cant pretend, these things are somehow disconnected. When you paid for pre-order, you paid for early access as well, it was the most important condition of the whole transaction. THIS is what i was arguing in my last 3 posts, not whether the devs should or should not give us the Advent back. I can play for Advent anytime i want anyway.

That made me laugh.  I worked in customer services for years. One of the first things you learn is the companies line is "The customer is always right" and the second thing you learn is that most customers are whiny, impatient and often unrealistic. It's not their fault, they just don't know any better, because they don't know how the process works. To put it bluntly, most people are too ignorant and too ready to fly off the handle.  And no amount of us explaining the process or the errors of their views is ever going to change anything.  And I like your new word for it.  Entitle-boys... I like it.  It makes sense.

You're absolutely right.  They did not buy the full beta.  They bought the "Full, Final, Release".  We are getting "access" to the beta as a bonus and to give us the opportunity find bugs to report for squashing.  Give our feedback on the progress of the game and any changes we might like to see.  Feedback the devs will take seriously and quite possibly make changes for the betterment of the game as a whole.  That is a huge bonus in the long run for us. 

@people complaining claiming they bought the beta.

Yes, you bought the game, good for you.  But don't delude yourself by saying that you bought it for the Beta.  You bought it because you wanted the game.  A game you knew you would play and enjoy.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Access to the Beta was just a bonus.  An incentive for paying for the game early.  But make no mistake.  You did not pay for the beta.  You paid for the final release.  As such, even though you are being given access to the beta, how much of that games features you are allowed access to in the beta at any given time is entirely at the discretion of the devs whether you like it or not.  They have a working plan and testing methodology that they have to stick to.  They have to stick to it in order to ensure that the game gets tested and debugged properly.  And no amount of complaining nor self-entitling "screw your plan, give me my game because I'm impatient" is ever going to change that.  I mean seriously, think about it.  The point of a beta test is to test various aspects of the game.  In order to thoroughly test these various elements of the game, you have to put the parts of the game you want to focus testing on to the forefront.  How do you do that.  You lock off the parts you don't want to get sidetracked by, again, because you are focusing on the other part.  That's what they're doing.  You want access to the beta test?  Well that's what you've been doing this whole time.  You have access.  Woohoo.  Congratulations, you got what you supposedly paid for.  You are testing the TEC in the beta test.  When they are ready to test another part of the game, you will be the first to know.  But don't think for a second that you have any right to dictate how nor when they do that.  So, are you still sure you bought the beta, or did you buy the final release and accept the beta as a bonus.  As you should be thinking of it.  Sure they made a mistake... It happens, get over it.  How many mistakes do you make at work or at home on a daily basis.  Big or small it doesn't matter.  It happens.  Nobodies perfect.

Personally, I'd rather they take all the time they need to get it done properly now rather than it get hurriedly released unfinished and broken (like many games these days) and hope with fingers crossed that issues will be fixed later, which may or may not happen, again as seen with many games these days (Stardock and Ironclads reputation not withstanding... You guys are generally pretty good at patching your games.).

You have the right to complain, Timmy, but for the most part, no reason to.

As pretty much a purely Advent focused player (on rare occasions, I play Vasari, never TEC,) I had a lot of fun playing around with the Advent Rebels two days ago, but as GoaFan said earlier, there were a lot of problems, like half of the technology wasn't just "not working properly", it just wasn't working at all.

So I just consider that one day as a fun preview of my favourite race, and eagerly look forward to seeing them added with both their tech and ICO both working properly, so actual testing can be carried out.

Whao guys, let's not get bent out of shape about this. This is a Beta test. I guess Ironclad screwed up a little, yeah, but no self-respecting Beta test should be without dicking and screwing around.

And never forget: your only privilege as a Beta tester is to the 'report bug' button.

I disagree with the statement that I, the customer, have only paid for the final release and not the Beta....

Without a Beta release, no money would have been given to SD until the final release....but instead, SD has been sitting on my $30 several months in advance of the final release, and that is several months I had to go without my $30...

Assuming a final release date of February 2013 (a date based on the history of SD and their consistent release of games in that month), that is approximately one year in advance that they secured my $30....also assuming an interest rate of 0.91% for my savings account, that is a loss of $0.27 dollars I could have obtained...furthermore, that $30 will depreciate before next February due to inflation...assuming an inflation rate of 3.16% (the average for 2011), $30 next February would be equivalent to $29.08 now, netting another personal loss of $0.92 for me...

In total, SD has beguiled me out of $1.19, which happens to be exactly the price of a 5-layer burrito at Taco Bell.....therefore, I demand that SD reimburse me with one (1) 5-layer burrito from Taco Bell or face the eternal hatred of Seleuceia...

Yeah, but i was not really complaining about the game.

Otherwise, i am Vasari player myself, this was actually first time ever, i played Advent. At least so i think, i might have played for them perhaps once back in the days of Vanilla Sins, but i am not even sure about that, as i was completely baffled by their tech trees now.

BTW, can anyone of you, who plays Advent ad played this 0.75 beta, make a thread with bit of a introduction to them, what are their main must-have techs, you are bound to research perhaps every-time you play the game (you know. stuff like Enslaved Labor for Vasari) and then highlight their new subfaction-specific techs, and what exactly they do?

I mean for TEC Loyalist, its all clear, dual starbases, cheaper defenses, upgrades, early novaliths. For TEC Rebels, its mostly about that Truce Amogst Rogues, Pirate Mercenaries and that final Liberated something...something, to get you those free insurgent forces. For Vasari Loyalists, it was that Shipboard Labs/Stripped to the Core/Charybdis Dark Fleet stuff. But with Advent, i was totally out of depth, i only registered that "Culture directly from planets" stuff and Planet for Planet, which i had no idea, what exactly it does. Other than that, overall it seems, most of their new stuff is culture related and that is not my domain.

Thanks in advance to whoever, who tries to do this

Agree with K-64, dctrjons, Ironmallet and Ryat. Cool off guys, and go play with what we have the privilege to get our hands on right now. Advent and Vasari will be here eventually. Just enjoy the ride!

There should be a "report bug" button for people, some people's head are really "bugged".   

I guess I'll bask in the collected outrage and hate because someone has to do it.  If it makes folks feel better to vent their frustration in my direction, I'll be the meat shield.

As I stated in the OP, it was not intended for this build to be made live as it was not ready for prime time. Beta 2 will begin once we've hammered out the issues we've found, so you guys won't have long to wait.

Mm, I was basically saying I was fine with them taking it back, simply because they were so borked.

I'd be in favour of a few Advent players putting together an Advent 101 for the beta, a lot of people during that day seemed to kind of just... not get that Advent were a different race to the TEC and complained that they seemed weak based on things like raw health values on the Titans.

Well said Yarlen,

For the whiners:

LMAO -

I cannot believe we are still on this - it happened - big dookey - move along - nothing to see here.  WOW the whine patrol is in full effect.  Once I realized what happened I went back to testing the original beta -as we all should. 

Yeah, that would be fine. As a total Advent Noob (who can still see and appreciate other means than brute force, though) i would gladly take any help i can get.

BTW the ability of the Advent Loyalist Titan to slow enemy ships in its vicinity down and screw their weapons was IMHO uber-cool. Actually, i was under subjective impression, against enemy fleet i could get the job done faster than with any of the TEC titans, probably thanks to this ability.

Grab the pitchforks lads!

Joking aside hopefully soon means soon, as not all developers mean soon when they say soon. Also not a cruel an April Fool's day weekend thing as CN bringing back toonami for a weekend :/

Just roll with it. Its a test environment. Whether your testing for bugs or testing playability, things happen and we just have to deal. We are still intitled to have fun while doing this. I was pretty excited when all of a sudden the advent showed up on my doorstep. However, I agree that they do need to be balanced and tweaked a bit. The movie was sweet and will definently win over alot of people. In fact I was hoping to see it one last time before I got the black crash screen and had to reinstall.

Good Job Stardock/Ironclad! You guys are doing  a hell of a job and making some good progress. You know what the community wants and you take all of our comments into consideration.