1) OK, WHAT do you suppose is possible to detect on any planet that you can only observe via telescope and radiometry? 2) Even if you could, the information/light travels at the speed of light, and therefore your theory fails for any system further away than 300 lightyears.
Disregarding that this wasn't directed towards me. . . .
Your view is elitist, and you yourself are egotistical. You state that everyone is different because of the entire circumstance of their existance. You probably think "yeah, so what? It's working out fine for me", and thus your apathy benefits noone.
Oh goody, I have more mail. Maybe it's the shit from Washington. Then I can fling it at you!
lol, jk
Xer07, I love your pics and please post more! 
Whoa, this is episode is like super-exciting and interesting! 
I wonder what will happen next? Considering that they cut of Ethan, a relatively new char in the show, I am thinking that maybe they'll introduce someone new, to increase the interest. Even though the old characters (Dakota, Mishayla, Jess, Liz) are very compex and interesting, and the plot thickens, by spliting them into 2 groups (Dakota-Mishayla vs Liz-Jess), I think that this quartet is gonna be over soon, because they would want to keep the series going and make it to a new season, by making them friends again.
However, this is just my prediction, and you can never know what the script writers and producers have in mind 
Ok, seriously now, Xer0: Do not give a damn about Liz-Jess. If they want to harm you, by preventing you to be with the girl you dreamed of for years, then they are acting childish and being evil at the same time. Do what you want to do. If you have a chance with her GRAB it.
I am sure/hope, that Storm agrees with me on this one 
QFT 
I didnt insult magic, because magic doesnt exist 
Xer0 \^/
Again, this is pretty mean of them to do that by conspiring against you. You have nothing to feel bad for, imo.
Heresy is the most stupid term I have ever heard.
"Heresy" is generally beliefs or a religion, that is different than your own. Hence, the person who calls Heretics those who oppose his/her religious beliefs, only proves that he/she is blindfolded, not being able to see past his/her own beliefs and disregard everything that is different, by calling it "Heresy".
Quite honestly I think my life really sucks sometimes. While I did say that not everyone is equal, I never said they couldn't improve their circumstances. The truth is that circumstance of existance does make people different, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's bad.
If you fling crap at me, that disproves that you are an AI, and proves you are a monkey.
As for your counterpoint on sentient non-human life- No contact, no proof. We haven't detected anything at all; not even the remnants of a long-dead civilization. Thus, for the present time, I do not think that sentient alien life exists. HOWEVER, if we were to run across it, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong.
And finally, I'm not egotistical, I'm mad *insert evil crazy laugh here*.
I like this part: "I didn't insult magic, because magic doesn't exist". I'm not sure if it's possible to insult non-existant things, so it can certainly pass!
Besides, sorcery/magic wouldn't be heresy, it'd be paganism. Here's an example-
The religions of several pantheistic civilizations (Aztec, Greek, Mayans, Persians, Babylonians) weren't heretical, they were pagan. In contrast, the teachings of Joel Osteen are heresy.
"A suspicious mind is a healthy one."
W
T
F
RIGHT AFTER I GO TO SLEEP DO PPL GET ON AND POST!
Anyway (I was hoping the new anime would be distracting enough, on top of all my kitteh pix and the new developments at home), I can't get TOO into now, I'm in Spanish Class right now.
I've decided to at least TRY to make things better w/ Jess and Liz, but if they don't comply, I've already warned one of my teachers to make sure that Jess doesn't freak out on Mishayla, and I'm also getting closer to Hannah and the rest of Mishayla's friends, should worst come to worst.
Also: Srry Morph, no pix until tonite, this laptop can't load any pix for some reason....
Xer0 \^/
QFT
I said that this seemed like Xer07's story, and they (Skidi and Storm) flamed me for it
"No. I have not heard of Stav, nor am I interested in it. All things magical and sorcerous are, to put it nicely, not good, in nature."
NO, all things magical and sorcerous simply do not exist.
Whiskey's veeeeeeeeeeery long post: I am surprised you took the time to write all this, only to disproof the existence of magic. Of course I agree with everything you said about the subject, and I would like to add the following:
Storm cannot even provide a simple definition of what magic is. Explain what it is to you, and after that, find some solid proof for it. As is: Definition>Theory>Proof and Validation of that theory. And you there is no doubt and question of it existence. But until you do that, then all I hear about magic is fairy tales and pagan beliefs.
You wanted me and Whiskey to disproof the existence of magic. Well guess what. Thats not how the world actually works. In our society, its: Nothing is true until proven so. Not the opposite. You are saying that: Nothing is false until proven so. This is ridiculus, because it only applies to PROVEN theories. Since you havent proven anything, we cant disproove what doesnt exist, can we?
(just an example) If I were to say that Newton's Laws are false, everyone would laugh at me, because it is already a proven theory. But if I were to PROVE it wrong, then everyone would believe me. Thats the way it works, and if and when you prove that magic does exist, then someone may attempt to disprove your theory.
Thats what I said 2 pages ago, Xer07. But Storm didnt want to drop the subject. This is why I never argue or debate with people over religious matters.
Mishayla's hidden poem: WOW 
Really stunning poetic capabilities
My favorite song of ALL time: (please dont laugh at it. it really is for me)
When I am angry, mad, sad, frustrated, or feel bad in any other way, this is the song that will make me the most peaceful, happy, calm person in the world, even for just a few minutes.
All men/women are born 100% equal, with the same absolute rights over the earth and everything in it, and thats because we are ALL the same. There are no different people, just different beliefs.
This is were we completely disagree, Whiskey. I'm sorry, but your views of human existence and rights, are completely distrorted.
QFT.
Exactly, until we actually find traces of sentient alien life, it doesnt exist anywhere near our galaxy. Maybe further in the deep vast space, but not close to us.
Yes, I am sure you did. But not with magic, or any other special power of any kind. You know, humans have created what is known, as one of the simplest yet some times the most effective medicine there is. I am talking about the Placebo, which is basically any form of mind manipulation. Many people with chronic pain problems, have found cure with a simple placebo, that is in fact nothing more than vitamins, or compressed sugar. If someone is in pain, and you tell them, "I will take away your pain, dont worry" and they believe that, then they would truly feel no pain after your "touch". Concurrently, this would definitely have the best results on yourself, since convincing yourself that the pain goes away, is easier than doing it on others.
What is pain?
Pain is electrical signals transmitted into the brain by our nerves, that pass through our entire body.If something deceives our brain, that this signal is wrong, or the brain fails to interpret it correctly, then you would feel no pain. Of course, the opposite can happen: If something deceives your brain into thinking that somewhere in your body you feel pain, then you would feel pain, for no reason. Do you know how many people have chronic pain problems for no reason? These people experience the opposite of what a Placebo can do.
There are some key points in the human body, that there are no nerves, like our eye balls, for example. At few these parts of our body, we can feel no pain, no matter what.
All this, is called: "The Placebo Effect".
QFT
Whiskey: Could you not quote huge posts please? It takes up a lot of forum space. Thank you 
To everyone: Ok, I knew that yesterday, when I went to sleep, that you guys would post A LOT in my absence, but JESUS CHRIST! thats a lot! Whiskey, you could write a small book with these HUGE posts of yours.
p.s. No offence to everyone, its just that I am waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too lazy to read and answer to everyone, but....I did it anyway. Well I skipped many parts that would require me to write half a page just to answer to 1 person, so I managed to keep it *ahem* short....I mean as short as I could 
1. Please, oh please, for the love of God, do not quote huge posts of other people. Just quote the parts where you are interested to answer to. I am not critisizing you, dont take it the wrong way, but it takes a LOT of forum space. What I usually do, is click quote, and then delete the parts that I am not interested to, from my post.
2. I dont have a problem with the term "heresy", but I DO have a problem with how it is being used. For example: I have heard many MANY people in my country (Greece), in which btw, 92% of the population are Christian Orthodox including myself, saying something similar to this: "Oh for Gods sake with those heretic jehovah's witnesses! They are so ignorant, so this, so that, heretic" and blah blah blah. Just because they have different religious beliefs than them, they call them "heretics" and feel like they are somehow their enemies or rivals. I despise people that do that, its very egotistical and racist at the same time.
3. Of course this was just an example, because this happens all around the world, and the term "heresy" is being misused all the time. Oh but I forgot: these people do that, because our Church has declared them heretics..... 
4. I dont want to start flaming the Church institution now, but needless to say, that just because a few people at the top of the church hierarchy call them heretics, and flame them verbally, doesnt mean that they are, and people shouldnt listen to them. But I dont want to start a subject about this....but I simply wanted to express my views on the whole heresy thing, and how exactly it is similar to racism and all its subforms of it.
But huge quote posting is fun!
Also, while I don't think people are born with inherent rights and are born unequal, I DO think it is COMPLETELY possible and desirable that people create societies where they treat each other equally.
I had forgotten about placebos. Good way to put it.
When I said the "not good" thing, I mean any involvement with such subjects (as in the supposed practice of magic).
"A suspicious mind is a healthy one."
Story of my life....
Awwww I loved your pics 
Did you like mine? 
Post more funny kitties tomorrow!
For now though.....
Edit: Whiskey, 
do you know how much flaming you deserve just for doing this? Please please please dont quote huge posts 
Actually, the doctrines espoused by Jehovah's Witnesses are heretical in nature, as they say that there are only 144,000 people who will get saved, and that some of their members are the reincarnated "witnesses" of the crucifixion (sp?) of Christ.
Your Church is correct in that declaration; however I agree that misuse of the term is rampant, and just because a couple of bigwigs declare something to be so doesn't make it true (it just happens that Jehovah's Witnesses do have several heretical doctrines that they espouse).
I usually just quote the whole thing since I find it easier to address the contents in such a manner. But because of the enormous amount of space it takes up I will try not to.
"A suspicious mind is a healthy one."
Probably a lot, but I thought I'd get in a last prod. Also, that pic is pure epic awesometastical win-ness.
"A suspicious mind is a healthy one."
Whiskey, you misunderstood my point. I didnt say that they are, or they arent heretic. What you say about their religion is true, and I already know that, but you dont seem to understand how hostile and malevolent people are against them. They treat these so called "heretics" like vermin, and not just in my country. And not only that, but most people dont even know WHY they are called heretics for gods sake. They simply call them heretics and point fingers on them just because the church says so. They are completely guided from church, and they dont even try to find out on their own how things are.
Again, it doesnt matter if they are heretic. What does matter is how people treat them, how they use that term for any other different religion than their own, and how they are easily guided by their church institution.
I wish people didnt act like that, especially when you consider that these 144,000 people dont hurt anyone, while they are being treated like vermin. I dont want to blame, I dont want to judge, but this sort of behaviour is really bad, IMHO.
Edit: anyway, dont mind my rant about the distortion of the term "Heresy", just stay on the magic subject.
Edit #2: From now on, thats my sig:
"Can I haz cookies nao?"
Seems like there's always at least one two year old in every debate.
Morph: I did offer a definition of Magic. Why did you claim I did't?
"No. I have not heard of Stav, nor am I interested in it. All things magical and sorcerous are, to put it nicely, not good, in nature."
What does that mean? Looks almost like you do believe and just think it's evil...
NO, all things magical and sorcerous simply do not exist.
That's a personal opinion. No debate would allow it, whether it's commonly accepted or not.
Saying things have to be proven true, rather than proven untrue to be accurate is ridiculous. You, who have embraced science to a frightening degree, and only have a grasp on half of it. Proving somethingtrue or untrue are two sides of the same thing. I think you offer up that argument because you simply can't do it.
Skidi gave you evidence. You say you think you know how it was done non-magically. Show me the exact formula that you believe would need to be used on a 2" thick steel slab, accounting for the fact that she was holding it up by hand at 12 years old, and had a hole in the center when she was finished? If you can't, your argument currently has no more ground to stand on than ours. Less, even, since at least two people witnessed it.
You mention the placebo effect. All we know about it is that it exists. We don't know how it works or why. It could be simply deception between the mind and body, or I could be right and it is magic. Each is just as likely as the other at the moment. I offered the evidence, it is your task to disprove it.
As to the divining storms, I believe you're wrong, but I will grant the POSSIBILITY that I had subconciously seen the clouds in a distance and made the assumption that way, so I'll drop that one for now.
Note: You guys are bringing Religion back into this, and it was strictly forbidden from the start.
Your views on Alien Life: "We haven't seen it so it's not there" is ridiculous.
Using that logic, I can put an egg under a cup, and according to you, it doesn't exsist.
But that is off topic as well.
Xer0: We aren't trying to take away anyone's opinion, this was supposed to be structured as a debate.
Oh, and as to what Morph said, I am in agreement on all things Xer0 related. (Seems that's about it though. Can either of you offer up any evidence for your side? All you've been doing so far is trying to discredit ours. How about stepping up and giving something to the debate? Something not meant to disprove what we've said, but rather to disprove magic altogether.)
-Twilight Storm | My life for the Dahkri | Debate
1. The part about Skidi is garbled. Please clarify, as it sounds like you think Skidi did the punching, not the shaman. And besides, the holder is really rather irrelevant; you can still break a bunch of wooden boards being held improperly, it's just slightly more difficult.
2. Skidi brought the religion in, not me or Morph.
3. No, it's not "we haven't seen it so it's not there"; it's "we have NEVER at this point seen ANY LEGITIMATE evidence". Also, your example is void because if I see the egg, then I obviously know it's there. And if I don't see the egg, then to me it doesn't exist, because I don't know that it is there. There are a lot of things that are relative to the observer, and that is one of them.
4. I think that having to prove something true instead of proving it untrue is very reasonable; so far both sides are working off the assumption that the other is wrong, 1 side assumes magic exists, the other assumes that it does not. So far all you've done is challenged us to prove it doesn't exist; you haven't really offered any good (or for that matter, 3rd-party) evidence that it does.
5. I'm 16 and I've gone mad sometime in the past few years. It's actually quite wonderful, being so gloriously mad.
6. One thing I will say about science- NEVER TRUST IT ON THE SUBJECT OF THE BEGINNING OF THE UNIVERSE. EVER. Otherwise, science has proven itself quite reputable.
7. Actually, I'll say a little bit more on that- in the entire history of the human race, science has a very good and reputable track record; after all, science is simply the act of describing the how and why of the what we understand the workings of the universe around us to be. Magic, well, quite simply doesn't have the same track record.
"A suspicious mind is a healthy mind."
Thanks, thats very polite of you to say....
Yes, thats my opinion. Am I not allowed to express my opinions and views? WOW
Storm:
First of all, you clearly want to start a flame war, and again you make me want to avoid one. I see that you are attacking only me, when Whiskey has already said so much (and I agree with him), just for making a few points here and there, disregarding my opinion and views on the subject. Arent you?
Secondly,
Where is it?
1. If you cant accept common logic and sense, then I dont really care, do I? Nothing is true until proven so. Thats how science works and I follow that rule 99% of the time.
2. Also, if you think you can just go past half my arguments, and just pick a few words here and there, and try to say I don't know what I'm talking about without even providing some facts and truths, then I don't know why we are even talking here. I clearly said that you haven't proven a damn thing about your theories, and I stand by it.
3. I have embraced science to a frightening degree? Where do you base that claim?
4. "I think you offer up that argument because you simply can't do it" I cant do what? Disprove what has never been proven? How is that possible? Storm, dont take this the wrong way, but are you insane? Its like saying that I cant prove that God doesnt exist. God has never been fully proven to exist, so I cant disprove that.
5. "Skidi gave you evidence...blah blah blah" First of all, I didnt comment on this one, and secondly this was NOT EVIDENCE. My god, am I really reading what you just post?
6. "I offered the evidence, it is your task to disprove it." You offered NO evidence whatsoever, you have not proven a damn thing, you never fully explained what you think magic is, you never based any of your claims on solid info with scientifical terms, you disregard any logic claiming whatever you want with no facts or truths.
7. re: Placebo. Placebo is proven whether you like it or not. It has been tested over the decades, and has worked on more than 50% of the time. Placebo has to do with how exactly the human brain works, and how it interprets electric signals, how the subconscious part of the brain works, etc etc etc.
8. re: divining storms: All we have is your own word here, nothing more. I could very well say that I predicted the Twin Tower terrorist attack on the US, and the War in Irak.
9. re: religion: I will talk about my own religion if I want, you cant take that right from me.
10. re: Alien life: In many things, seeing IS believing. If you want to believe there are aliens, go ahead, but if I dont see any of them, then I am gonna have to go with the "sentient-alien-life-doesnt-exist".
11. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Since I feel that you are trying to take that right from me, I will defend it no matter what. (I hope you arent trying to do that though)
12. "Using that logic, I can put an egg under a cup, and according to you, it doesn't exsist." I could do that too, but without hiding an egg, but thin air, telling you that there is an egg under the cap, while there isnt.
13. re: evidence: There is no evidence for the existence of magic, because magic does not exist. Therefore, I cannot provide it for you.
14. Not a very good job in trying to make this debate look like you are defending, because we are defending your claims. We never claimed far fetched theories, but rather mentioned solid facts.
15. Also, I do not care, nor I want to change your beliefs or views about anything. You (and everyone) are entitled to your own opinions. Now you can go ahead and tell me that I am dodging the debate, and blah blah blah. I never said I am in any kind of debate, I am simply expressing my views, and you do not want to respect that. Thus you forced me to defend my rights here.
16. If you do not want to accept, common sense, facts, truths, and solid proof, then say so, so I dont waste my time discussing this subject pointlessly.
p.s. I know I am rude, but I got angry, just like you did yesterday.
"Can I haz cookies nao?"
Fuck this. I'm not trying to start a flame war here, the two of you clearly are. Nobody on your side is offering ANYTHING PRODUCTIVE. You keep saying the same things over and over again and I'm sick of it. You said you wanted a debate.
No, you are not allowed to use religion on this topic in particular, it was in the initial rules for taking part in the debate in the first place. Nobody is allowed to mention religion. You want to speak on it outside the bounds of the debate, that's fine, I've no right to say you can't, but we all agreed not to speak on religion when we started this.
Why do you think I'm targetting only you? The majority of what I said was for you AND whiskey. All of your arguments were along the lines of "Because I say so" Just about every post YOU have given has had the phrase magic does not exist in it, along with bashing anything I've said.
I'm done. You want to keep this going, do it without me.
If that looks mean, I'm not inclined to appologize. I was VERY thorough in not entering in the ammount of explatives I had intended to.
-Twilight Storm | My life for the Dahkri
QFT
Yeah, science could never fully explain how the universe was created. Its beginning. If all indeed comes from the slightest form of matter that exploded like a super nova, how the hell does that particle of matter was created in the first place?
It is really a paradox, and that where God comes in. Thats why even some scientists believe in God, otherwise they'd rather find a good explanation for it.
Going back to the magic subject, I an going to ask for the last time:
What is magic, Storm? What exactly is it? And dont give me just a generalized vague definition. If it does exist indeed, then it definition must be accurate and solid.
After doing that, you can start trying to find proof of it. And after that, if you prove to us that it DOES exist, and we still do not believe that it does, then we may try to disprove its existence.
If you dont like that simple logic, then we may as well all start screaming in madness.
"Can I haz cookies nao?"
I never said that
I didnt use religion in that topic, I simply ranted about the misuse and distortion of the term "Heresy".
I didnt take part in any debate, sorry.
Thanks for clarifying that.
I thought that you ARE trying to start a flame war, by calling me a 2-year old.
You started this, I see that you also ended it. Its your right.
Yes, I said that magic does not exist, but not "because I said so", but because I see no proof of it
You can ignore logic and common sense all you want, but dont try to take it out on me or Whiskey.
You have provided no evidence/proof whatsoever, you simply argue with yourself here.
Twilight Storm evading bonus +100\ *Dodge *Dodge *Dodge *Dodge *Dodge *Dodge *Dodge *Dodge
Whiskey: Twilight Storm has been defeated. Shall we move to our next target now? 
"Can I haz cookies nao?"
You re-entered in reply 1730 from what I read.
I appologize, I took the whole post at a whole, re-reading it, it wasn't related.
Again, you re-entered.
Not sure if that was sarcasm. However, I see how the way I worded that post looked like it was Aimed at you. Once you name someone, it looks like everything after was for you, and it wasn't.
Mostly that was aimed at whiskey, you just seemed to be commenting on his stuff at that point.
Because you say so and because there is not proof seems like the same thing to me.
Me and Skidi both offered evidence, which you both claim is irrelivent.
I'd still like to see the equasion Whiskey thinks is behind skidi's evidence, but other thn that I'm done with this.
Whiskey: How much force would be needed to strike a hole in the center of 2" of solid steel? I'll leave out the fact that it's being held by a 12 year old for now.
How much force can a "Normal" person exert? If these two numbers are REMOTELY similar, I may submit to that rationalization as well.
-Twilight Storm | My life for the Dahkri
Bravo morpheas bravo. We have successfully proved that magic does not exist. You have learned well my student.
Hmm, I think we should move on to a new topic; I think "what kind of women (ethnicity etc.) are you partial to and why". Before I start I'll let someone else agree and then we can start.
.
"A suspicious mind is a healthy one."
The equation is Ke=M*V^2. Which is translated as: Kinetic energy equals mass times velocity squard (velocity is the squared term, not mass*velocity); where Ke=energy in Joules, M=mass in kilograms, and V=velocity in meters per second.
This equation is used primarily for the calculation of the kinetic energy of a projectile; however it is just as applicable for people who are breaking things. Also, a person who has little mass can still break something that would normally require a large amount of mass by simply being faster.
Are you satisfied now?
As to the amount of force, it all depends. Quite frankly there are too many variables to give a perfect definition, as we don't know how good Skidi's smithing skills are, we don't know if there were any faults or micro-fractures in the steel piece, we don't know what method Skidi used to make the slab, or even the dimensions of the steel piece. We also don't know the size of the hole, there is too little data on the person who put the hole there.
Overall, I don't know how much force would be required, in part because the strength of steel is never given in Joules/unit of area, but in units of pressure (Pascals, which is actually joules/m^3 I believe); and also because we simply have too little constants and too many variables.
"A suspicious mind is a healthy mind."
All you proved is that you're good at dodging questions. I asked 3 times for you to show me the equasion to believe explains punching through steel, and you avoided it each time.
Count me out of your next topicS.
-Twilight Storm | My life for the Dahkri
That's a floating equasion. Fill in the proper numbers or it's simply an object in your post. That way TO answer the question, but not the answer.
I'll admit, I'm not that good at math or I'd do it myself.
I am asking for the ammount of force required to punch through 2" of Steel. Then how much force the average person can exert.
Feel free not to, I may just research this myself.
To be quite honest, this fight has actually re-affirmed my belief.
-Twilight Storm | My life for the Dahkri | THIS!!! IS!!! SPARTAAA!!!
I GAVE YOU THE EQUATION DAMMIT!!! And besides, I formulated Post #1744 before I had known you had posted post#1743!! Sometimes I don't pay attention and I take my sweet time making a post.
Besides, Ke=M*V^2 explains not only punching through steel, but also concrete, wood, bullets penetrating and doing damage, the amount of destruction a meteor hitting the Earth would cause.
Additionally, if you had read my initial post about that properly, you would have seen that I included the equation.
"A suspicious mind is a healthy one."
The amount of force the average person can exert is a variable in and of itself. You have to know how fast they are going, how much they mass/how much mass they are putting behind their strike; additionally you have to know how much force is required to break the object in question.
I'll admit I don't know how much force, but I'm sure that somewhere on the Internet, you can find the answer.
"A suspicious mind is a healthy one."
The last two paragraphs hadn't shown up when read it. Were they edit or just appearing late?
I said I'm not good at math. A floating equasion is useless to me. You say what needs to be in the equasion, but not numbers so I don't get it(Hence why I believe math is broken, among other things)
I'll just research it myself.
Topic Ended.
-Twilight Storm | My life for the Dahkri | THIS!!! IS!!! SPARTAAA!!!
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