Deceiver_0 Deceiver_0

NEW Patch Stat Changes Forums [NEW TOPIC: CAPITAL SHIPS!! 1/2/10]

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NEW Patch Stat Changes Forums [NEW TOPIC: CAPITAL SHIPS!! 1/2/10]

For Sins Version 1.19 and Entrenchment 1.05

from Sins Forums

Hey everyone its that time again, lets compile some data!

This is a post that I will update regularly to give the DEVS a better idea of what people think should be done to stats in the next patch. This is ONLY for patches, no new ships or elaborate concepts for the next expansion. This is for dealing with peoples’ concerns about balance. If there’s a balance idea you have that’s not on here, post it and I’ll put it up for voting if it seems valid. I love the fact that ICO pays attention to the forums and what people suggest, I’d like to make it easier for them. The idea is to have all ideas posted straight forward and ranked so the DEVS don’t have to sift through pages and pages to find popular ideas. SP and MP players are both welcome to comment. Post yay or nay for any idea you like or dislike (be specific please) or say no fix needed. If you’d like I’ll also insert specific values you may come up with. Some votes will be taken from other threads.

BUGS

Since the last patches release, the main complaint I've seen on the forums are in the form of bugs, so I'm compiling a list of the known ones, and will update the list as more are discovered. Some of the early bugs were fixed in the hotfix, and perhaps (fingers crossed) the Devs will release another hotfix to address the rest, rather than a whole new patch. So here it goes:

- Nano Weapons Jammer autocast AI casts continuously

- AM Recharger autocast AI casts continuously

- Illuminator causes mystery damage between shots

- Phasic Trap research Level 2 still has no effect.

- Orkulus Phase Stabilizer does not work on stars.

- Random Map Bugs:

              - Single Phase lane starts

              - No connected Asteroids

              - Overlapping Gravity Wells

- Backwards Dunov Icon

- Pathing Improvements (specifically dealing with stationary obstacles)

- Orkulus commands cancelled when trade ships dock

- No wave cannon sounds on Kortul

- Resource extractors on HWs produce income before they're constructed.

- PAWELOS BUG HUNTING

- Siege Militia/pirates run from turrets before construction is complete (exploit).

 

CAPITAL SHIPS

This will be a large section that will continue to evolve through out the life of this thread so check back often for new topics. Consensus seems to think now that carrier caps have all been buffed, many of the other caps need to be brought up to par with them.

Buff Battleship Class(Kol/Radiance/Kortul)

                          Increase hp/shields/armor?-

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%)  Darvin3                Deceiver_0
                                                      CallenExile               MindsEye                 Swordsalmon
                                                      Hrabandur                CrazyElectron           Ryat
                                                      Arthanis                   Warlord Mike           Onigiri

                                     Nay-

                          Increase DPS?-

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%)  Darvin3                Deceiver_0
                                                      MindsEye                 Swordsalmon           CallenExile
                                                      Hrabandur               CrazyElectron           Ryat
                                                       Arthanis                 Warlord Mike

                                     Nay-           Onigiri

                          Buff Gauss Rail Gun?-

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz(800/1200/1600)  Darvin3       Deceiver_0
                                                      CallenExile              MindsEye                  Swordsalmon
                                                      CrazyElectron           Ryat                        Arthanis
                                                      Warlord Mike

                                     Nay-            Hrabandur              Onigiri

                          Re-work Animosity?

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz           Darvin3                   Deceiver_0
                                                      MindsEye                Swordsalmon            Ryat
                                                      Arthanis                 Warlord Mike

                                     Nay-           CallenExile              Hrabandur               Onigiri

         No Change needed-                    CoBBQ

Colonizer Caps(Akkan/Progenitor/Jarrasul)

                        Buff Jarrasul Evacuator's colonize?

                                    Yay-            Darvin3               Volt_Cruelerz              Deceiver_0
                                                      Swordsalmon       Agent of Kharma           Hrabandur
                                                      Ryat                   Arthanis                     Warlord Mike
                                                      Onigiri 

                                    Nay-            CallenExile           MindsEye

        No Change needed-

Carrier Class Caps(Sova/Halcyon/Skirantra)

                       Buff Scramble Bombers?

                                  Yay-              Darvin3              Volt_Cruelerz               Deceiver_0
                                                      MindsEye            Swordsalmon               Agent of Kharma
                                                      Hrabandur          Ryat                           Arthanis
                                                      Warlord Mike 

                                  Nay-              CallenExile         Onigiri

                      Buff Replicate Forces?

                                  Yay-               Arthanis            Warlord Mike                 Onigiri

                                  Nay-

        No Change needed-

Buff Support Class Caps(Dunov/Antorak/Rapture/Revelation)

                      Increase AM regen?

                                 Yay-               Darvin3               Hrabandur               CrazyElectron
                                                      Ryat                   Juletron                  Arthanis
                                                      Warlord Mike        Swordsalmon

                                 Nay-               CallenExile           Mindseye                 Onigiri

                     Increase maximum AM?

                                 Yay-               CallenExile          Darvin3                    Hrabandur
                                                      Mindseye            Volt_Cruelerz             CrazyElectron
                                                      Juletron              Arthanis                   Warlord Mike

                                 Nay-               Ryat                  Swordsalmon            Onigiri

                     Increase Dunov EMP range?

                                 Yay-               CallenExile          Mindseye                  Volt_Cruelerz
                                                      CrazyElectron      Ryat                        Juletron
                                                      Arthanis             Warlord Mike             Swordsalmon

                                 Nay-               Hrabandur          Onigiri

                     Allow Dunov shield restore to be self targetable?

                                Yay-                Mindseye           CrazyElectron             Juletron
                                                      Arthanis            Deceiver_0

                                Nay-                Ryat                 Volt_Cruelerz            Warlord Mike
                                                      Swordsalmon      Onigiri

                     Allow Antoraks subversion to effect SC?

                               Yay-                 Mindseye           Juletron                    Volt_Cruelerz
                                                      Arthanis            Warlord Mike             Onigiri

                               Nay-                 Ryat                Swordsalmon

                     Buff Phase out hull?

                               Yay-                 Mindseye            Juletron                   Volt_Cruelerz
                                                      Arthanis             Warlord Mike            Swordsalmon
                                                       

                               Nay-                 Ryat                 Onigiri

         No Change Needed-

 

 

DELIVERANCE ENGINE

Without a doubt the weakest of the superweapons, there is little point in seeking it. For too long its been sitting in a dusty box on the shelf, to weak to be worth its tremendous costs. Lets consider some buffs to at least make it functional as a weapon. The one buff thats been suggested that I like is an instant allegiance drop, which will aid Advent in cultural takeovers of border planets and with enough, could possibly overthrow an enemy planet (though Id say it should require many more than the fearsome novalith)

Buff Deliverance engine-

                         Cause an instant decrease in allegiance?

                                    Yay-           Deceiver_0                Kitkun                    Greyfox2
                                                     anteachtaire              Mow Mow                Warlord Mike
                                                     Hrabandur                 Arthanis

                                    Nay-           Howdidudothat

No buff needed-                                Qu4r                        Darvin3                  CallenExile        

 

 

EMPIRE TREE

As I feel that the devs decision to put "Phase Jumping" ships at the top of the tree was purposeful and not a bug, I think most of us agree that the constant movement it creates (especially with phase monitoring!) makes the empire tree difficult to use. Move it to the bottom?

Adjust Empire Tree-

                         Move "Phase Jumping Ships" to the bottom of the tree?

                                    Yay-           Deceiver_0               Darvin3                  SwordSalmon
                                                     JSW_Ballz                Mindseye                Agent of Kharma
                                                     Ryat                        52500                    Mow Mow
                                                     Fuzzy Logic              EadTaes                 Warlord Mike
                                                     Hrabandur               Howdidudothat        -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Chaotic Magician        Arthanis

                                    Nay-           CallenExile

 

FIGHTERS

Some are unsatisfied with fighters with regards to surviving flak. I urge everyone to read the points of debate between Mindseye and myself starting on page 10-11, to get a better understanding of why fighters should or should not be adjusted. Below are a few suggestions

Buff Fighters-

                        Increase armor/hp?

                                  Yay-             Mindseye                 Mow Mow                Greyfox2
                                                     Qu4r                       Arthanis          

                                  Nay-             Deceiver_0               Darvin3                  Ryat
                                                     Top Vasari               Warlord Mike           EadTaes
                                                     Hrabandur                Howdidudothat        -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Chaotic Magician       Agent of Kharma      CallenExile
                                                     CrazyElectron 

MAPS

Raging Amish has proposed some modest changes to maps that I think we could possibly have implemented with enough support, so lets get a vote to see what people think of them. Magnetic clouds are huge wastes of space as their is nothing terribly beneficial about them. People with ability heavy fleets and caps would opt to fight you somewhere else (and can do so without much penalty). They make awful chokepoints because you can't put starbases or mines there, and they offer no economic value. I'd like to hear some ideas on how to improve them (beyond removing them completely from the game as RA has suggested). If we can come up with some good ones I'll put them up for a vote. In the meantime, I think one should at least be able to construct Starbases here, so I'll put that up as a topic. Also, all too often we see Ice and Volcanic planets  (which require research to colonize) offering you only 2 resource mines for the trouble of colonizing them. Personally I don't think that PLANETS should have less resources to offer than an asteroid. What do you think?

Magnetic Clouds-

                          Allow starbase deployment?

                                    Yay-            Deceiver_0              Darvin3                  Hrabandur
                                                      Juletron                  Howdidudothat         Warlord Mike
                                                      DirtySanchezz          Kitkun                    Qu4r
                                                      CrazyElectron

                                    Nay-            Ryat                       CallenExile              EadTaes
                                                      DesConnor              -Ue_Carbon             Chaotic Magician

Ice/Volcanic planets-

                          Change minimum mines to 3 (currently 2)?

                                   Yay-             Deceiver_0              Swordsalmon           Ryat
                                                      Darvin3                   Juletron                  Mindseye
                                                      Mow Mow                 EadTaes                 JSW_Ballz
                                                      Howdidudothat         Warlord Mike          Kitkun
                                                      Ovi_187                  -Ue_Carbon            Chaotic Magician
                                                      CrazyElectron 

                                   Nay-             CallenExile              DesConnor              DirtySanchezz
                                                      Hrabandur               Agent of Kharma      Qu4r

No Changes needed-

 

 

 

ORKULUS STARBASE

This topic is going to be heavy on the debate, and will likely be updated several times with NEW votable options throughout the life of this thread. Now, I think it's safe to say that we're beyond the point of the DEVS making a Vasari Assault cruiser and making the Orky stationary. So if thats what you think should happen thats fine, but it would be more useful for everyone if you hada second opinion on the Orky and voted on the issues below.

Nerf Orkulus-

                           Increase build penalty in hostile wells? (currently 2.25x unupgraded)

                                     Yay-          Greyfox2                   Raging Amish(3x)   Mindseye
                                                     Arthanis 

                                     Nay-          Deceiver_0                 Cykur                    Howdidudothat
                                                     Top Vasari                  Swordsalmon         Ryat
                                                     anteachtaire               LordMechanoid       JSW_Ballz
                                                     Warlord Mike              Agent of Kharma    DesConnor
                                                     DirtySanchezz             Kitkun                   Qu4r
                                                     52500                        Hrabandur            -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Chaotic Magician         Qu4r                    CallenExile
                                                    

Other-

                           SB constructors trigger phase monitoring alarm? ("Hostile forces are inbound")

                                    Yay-          Mindseye                    Deceiver_0            Howdidudothat
                                                    Top Vasari                   Cykur                   LordMechanoid
                                                    Warlord Mike               DirtySanchezz        Kitkun
                                                    52500                         Hrabandur            -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Chaotic Magician           CallenExile           CrazyElectron
                                                    Arthanis 

                                    Nay-          JSW_Ballz                   DesConnor           Qu4r

 

 

SCOUT FRIGATES

A hotly debated topic right now on the forums, none can deny their increased presence on the MP battlefield. As the cheapest buildable unit in the game, as well as being tier 0, its utility against long ranged frigates has been thoroughly exploited. The question remains, is it balanced? This topic will be split into two sections, a general section for a blanket nerf and a more specific section for interspecies balance. The reason for this is that some think scouts need to be weaker in general, whike other think they need to be balanced on par wtih TEC scouts.

Nerf Scouts-

                          Decrease hp/shields?

                                     Yay-

                                     Nay-          DirtySanchezz            Cykur                Arthanis

                          Decrease DPS?

                                     Yay-          DirtySanchezz            Greyfox2           Mindseye
                                                     Arthanis 

                                     Nay-          Cykur

                          Increase Cost/supply?

                                     Yay-         Mindseye                   Cykur                 Swordsalmon

                                     Nay-         DirtySanchezz             Arthanis

No Nerf Needed-                              Deceiver_0                 Wingflier            Howdidudothat
                                                     Darvin3                      Ryat                 CallenExile
                                                     Chaotic Magician        Agent of Kharma  Sivcorp
                                                     52500                       JSW_Ballz           LordMechanoid
                                                     Kitkun                       Hrabandur          -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Qu4r                        CrazyElectron

Balance Scouts-

                          Decrease Seeker Vessels Hp/shields/armor?

                                     Yay-         Deceiver_0                 Wingflier             Mow Mow
                                                    Swordsalmon              Darvin3               Ryat
                                                    Greyfox2                    52500                 JSW_Ballz
                                                    Cykur                        Top Vasari           LordMechanoid
                                                    Kitkun                        Hrabandur          -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                          CrazyElectron       Arthanis

                                     Nay-         DirtySanchezz            Howdidudothat      CallenExile
                                                   

                          Decrease Seeker Vessels DPS?

                                     Yay-         Swordsalmon              DirtySanchezz      Howdidudothat
                                                     Greyfox2                   Hrabandur          Qu4r 

                                     Nay-         Wingflier                    Darvin3               Ryat
                                                     CallenExile                52500                 JSW_Ballz
                                                     Cykur                       LordMechanoid     Kitkun
                                                    -Ue_Carbon                 CrazyElectron       Arthanis

                          Decrease Jikara Navigator cost/supply?

                                     Yay-         Deceiver_0                 Wingflier              Howdidudothat
                                                    CallenExile                 52500                  LordMechanoid
                                                    Hrabandur                  Qu4r 

                                     Nay-         Swordsalmon              DirtySanchezz       Darvin3
                                                    Ryat                          Chaotic Magician   JSW_Ballz
                                                    Cykur                        Greyfox2             Kitkun
                                                    -Ue_Carbon                CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                          Increase Jikara Navigator DPS?

                                     Yay-         Mow Mow                   Swordsalmon         Howdidudothat
                                                    Ryat                         Chaotic Magician     52500
                                                    JSW_Ballz                  Hrabandur            -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                         CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                                     Nay-         Wingflier                   DirtySanchezz        Darvin3
                                                    CallenExile                Cykur                   Greyfox2
                                                    LordMechanoid           Kitkun   

                          Increase Jikara Navigator hp/shields?

                                     Yay-         Mow Mow                  Darvin3                  Ryat
                                                    Chaotic Magician         Sivcorp                   Top Vasari
                                                    Kitkun                      Hrabandur              -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                        CrazyElectron           Arthanis

                                     Nay-         CallenExile               JSW_Ballz               Cykur
                                                    LordMechanoid

No Balance Needed-                         Agent of Kharma      EadTaes                 DesConnor

 

 

RAVASTRA SKIRMISHERS

While the most expensive light frigate in both resources and supply, these ships have the worst DPS per supply. With the recent buff to all light frigs, Cobalts and Disciples are now delivering on the tasks they're meant to, yet skirmishers are still struggling. So what should be done?

Buff Skirmishers-

                            Increase DPS?
                                        
                                      Yay-        Deceiver_0                Darvin3               52500 
                                                    Cykur                       Chaotic Magician   Top Vasari
                                                    Howdidudothat           Wingflier              Swordsalmon
                                                    Juletron                     Ryat                   Sivcorp
                                                    DirtySanchezz             GreyFox2            Raging Amish
                                                    CallenExile                 Mindseye            JSW_Ballz
                                                    Warlord Mike              lbgsloan             Mow Mow
                                                    EadTaes                    DesConnor          Kitkun
                                                    Agent of Kharma        Hrabandur           -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                       CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                                      Nay-        LordMechanoid

                            Decrease Supply cost?

                                      Yay-        Raging Amish           LordMechanoid      Hrabandur
                                                    Qu4r    

                                      Nay-        Deceiver_0                Darvin3               52500
                                                    Cykur                       Chaotic Magician   Top Vasari
                                                    Howdidudothat           Wingflier             Swordsalmon
                                                    Juletron                    Ryat                    CallenExile                
                                                    Mindseye                  JSW_Ballz            Warlord Mike
                                                    lbgsloan                   Mow Mow              Kitkun
                                                    -Ue_Carbon               CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                            Decrease Resource cost?

                                      Yay-        52500                       Warlord Mike

                                      Nay-        Darvin3                     Cykur                Chaotic Magician  
                                                    Top Vasari                 Howdidudothat    Wingflier
                                                    Swordsalmon             Juletron              Ryat
                                                    DirtySanchezz             Raging Amish     CallenExile
                                                    Mindseye                   JSW_Ballz           LordMechanoid
                                                    lbgsloan                    Kitkun                Hrabandur
                                                    -Ue_Carbon               Qu4r                   Arthanis

                            Adjust Reintegration autocast AI to activate earlier?

                                      Yay-        Deceiver_0               Darvin3               52500
                                                    Chaotic Magician       Top Vasari           Howdidudothat          
                                                    Wingflier                  Swordsalmon       Juletron
                                                    Ryat                        Sivcorp               Runesia
                                                    DirtySanchezz           GreyFox2            Raging Amish
                                                    CallenExile               Mindseye            JSW_Ballz
                                                    Warlord Mike            lbgsloan             Mow Mow
                                                    EadTaes                  Kitkun                 Agent of Kharma
                                                    Hrabandur               -Ue_Carbon          Qu4r 
                                                    CrazyElectron            Arthanis

                                      Nay-        LordMechanoid

 

No Change Needed-

 

 

 

1,700,930 views 913 replies
Reply #76 from Sins Forums Top

I have also made comments as to scout/LF rush being a problem.  It got JJ to switch to advent after all and he was pretty diehard vasari previously.  I have always been a proponent of scouts only being used to scout and minesweep and not as a counter to lrf.  There are plenty of counters to lrf already so scouts are inappropriate for this purpose.  Decreasing the utility of the scout to lrf would eliminate the problem of scout/LF spam that is seen now(particularly from advent).  It is too mindless to spam scouts with LF as it takes no labs and no crystal even to do it.  It covers most of its counters easily(scouts kill lrf, LF kill carriers, flak, and other LF).  The only recourse is to SB, skip to HC, or pure LF spam.  Combine that with the newly OP carrier caps and you have practically an unstoppable juggernaut of spam.  I have refused to do this crap myself on principle despite playing advent only but others<read DT> have picked up on it quite readily.  If it continues like this, I will just quit sins and move on(which on previous occasions of imbalance I have not even considered).  As to the skirmishers, they do suck and could probably use an adjustment.  I would go for the first and last suggestion like most.  I certainly don't want to see vasari starting up with this LF and scout spam crap though so I may be biased against much of a nudge. 

 

[_]-Greyfox

Reply #77 from Sins Forums Top

I have refused to do this crap myself on principle despite playing advent only but others have picked up on it quite readily.

 

I refuse to use scouts in mass.  Maybe 2 or 3 to take out constructors or fight for neutrals, but not as part of my offensive/defensive fleet.

 

While I won't say it's not a valid tactic and one that you can use, I feel it's too micro intensive and just doesn't go with my play style.  Also, noobs really shouldn't use it, as they'll likely forget to tell the scouts to attack.  I am one of those slow and steady guys.  Scouts just scream short term investment.

Star Control: Origins
Reply #78 from Sins Forums Top

I think the whole problem here is they are called "Scouts".  We should just rename them "Light Frigates", and then rename the old "Light Frigates" to "Assault Frigates".  Then everything will make sense.  And make Scouts build with auto attack on.  :grin:

Reply #79 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Cykur, reply 78
I think the whole problem here is they are called "Scouts".  We should just rename them "Light Frigates", and then rename the old "Light Frigates" to "Assault Frigates".  Then everything will make sense.  And make Scouts build with auto attack on. 

To be fair, only TEC have actual Scout and Light Frigates. Advent and Vasari have fancier names. ;)

Reply #80 from Sins Forums Top

I have refused to do this crap myself on principle despite playing advent only but others have picked up on it quite readily. If it continues like this, I will just quit sins and move on(which on previous occasions of imbalance I have not even considered).

Ok. Get down off the cross. Use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.

I refuse to use scouts in mass. Maybe 2 or 3 to take out constructors or fight for neutrals, but not as part of my offensive/defensive fleet.

I will say what I have always said. I only use scouts in mass (25+, i almost always use a few early to help with seige/long range frigs) if the enemy is mindlessly rushing LRF's.

I think the whole problem here is they are called "Scouts". We should just rename them "Light Frigates", and then rename the old "Light Frigates" to "Assault Frigates". Then everything will make sense. And make Scouts build with auto attack on.

Actually, having them start with auto-attack on would require some reprogramming. Scouts with auto-attack on will fight before they'll scout. 

Also, technically the Light frigate is only the cobalt. The light frigs are technically called basic assault frigates.

Reply #81 from Sins Forums Top

Also

yay Make it 12.5 dps (+2 net)

yay - I say yay because I think this would would work, however I would go with the above point, not this one if forced to choose

nay

yay

Possible Issues that may or may not need to be mentioned in this post:

  1. The Vasari don't have access to a support cruiser until tier 4, while TEC and Advent both get them at tier 3. I think overseers should be tier 3.
  2. Futility of Magnetic Clouds. These things are gigantic space wasters. They are an annoyance on the map, and need to have their functionality changed. Seriously. I've never fought in one, and you can't build a starbase even to set a "quasi-trap". No one uses these things, and no one likes having one near them.
  3. 2 mine Ice and Lava Planets. The entire point of Ice and Lava planets is to get a lot of one mineral. I think the devs should consider readjusting this to 3-4 mines for Lavas and Ice.
  4. On that same note, I think asteroids should have only 2 mines by default, and maybe (this is a bit of a jump) dead asteroids should have 1 metal mine so there would be incentive to actually colonize them (besides for the rare tactical position).
  5. Also, am I the only person who thinks it's bull that neutral grav wells can have as much as three mines or be completely empty? I'd rather it be 1-2 rather than 0-3.
  6. The Wave Tree. Good lord. Why is this tier 4,5,7. Enforcers are already bad. Then on top the tech tree is impossible to use. Don't want to copy the others with 2-4-5? Then go with 1-3-6 or 1-3-7 to give flavor and variety. That doesn't change the fact that 4-5-7 is just ridiculous.
  7. This is more of an option to the skirmisher problem than anything else. I think the anti-heavy bonus should go up +25% to 175% net. The dps of light frigs is already low early against most targets, and that's needed, but I've always felt light frigs take out flak/carriers just a little too slowly.

That's what comes to mind right n ow.

Reply #82 from Sins Forums Top

I agree that all of the points Amish raises are worth discussion (don't agree with them, persay, but they are worth discussion).  In addition, I'd add the following:

  • The power of the Advent scout
  • The weakness of the Vasari scout
  • The general weakness of turrets and hangers
  • Five capital ships in particular are still unused:  Antorak, Revelation, Dunov, Vulkoras, Kol.  I don't have specific gripes, this is more a matter of I don't see skilled players putting them to use at all, which speaks for itself.
  • Starbases build too quickly.  (I don't think many players complain about this, but it is a pet peeve of mine, but I'm still gunna say it)
  • Can't believe RA forgot it:  one lane starts on randomly generated maps.  No-asteroid starts as well.  While we're at it being 2 (or even 1) jump from another player's start location is also unacceptably close.

 

Reply #83 from Sins Forums Top

 

Quoting Darvin3, reply 82
Can't believe RA forgot it:  one lane starts on randomly generated maps.  No-asteroid starts as well.  While we're at it being 2 (or even 1) jump from another player's start location is also unacceptably close.

This is an eyesore and it really needs to get fixed.  Also, I hate it when planets are set one on top of the other.  You can try to order your ships to go to the lower planet but their getting there seems rather bugged.

Reply #84 from Sins Forums Top

Also, I hate it when planets are set one on top of the other.

Oh, this absolutely needs to be fixed.  Grav wells need a certain minimum distance between them.  Overlapping is just plain nasty, but even if they aren't overlapping being two close can screw around with the way ships jump, which isn't very nice at all.

Reply #85 from Sins Forums Top

This is an eyesore and it really needs to get fixed. Also, I hate it when planets are set one on top of the other. You can try to order your ships to go to the lower planet but their getting there seems rather bugged.

Agree x a billion. I have had ships stuck in GWs that are connected in the center. Its bloody awful.

Reply #86 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Raging, reply 80

I have refused to do this crap myself on principle despite playing advent only but others have picked up on it quite readily. If it continues like this, I will just quit sins and move on(which on previous occasions of imbalance I have not even considered).


Ok. Get down off the cross. Use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.

 

I am far from being on the cross.  I find it fairly insulting that you insinuate me putting myself on the metaphorical cross for a computer game.  All I am saying is that it is a personal deal breaker for me and if it continues as it is then I will move on to greener pastures.  It is not a fun way for me to play and I am not going to play a game that I am not happy playing because of cheezy tactics just because you are a cheerleader for rushing using scouts.  It requires no finesse or skill or even much thinking ahead.  I don't care if any of the rest of you think so or not.  I am voicing on a game forum is being done that I believe makes the game in question not fun or uneven.  Whether the developers do anything with that is not within my realm of influence outside of this right here.  If the game is no longer to my satisfaction, then it is within my power to stop playing and instead play something that challenges me in a manner more to my tastes.  If things are changed and there is value to tactics above putting out the most of the simplest units in the game, then I will continue enjoying the game I have enjoyed for a year and a half and consider it time and money well spent.

 

[_]-Greyfox

Reply #87 from Sins Forums Top

As far as Random maps go:

Ive put "no connected asteroid", "single phase lane starts", and "overlapping gravity wells" in the bugs section as they a clearly a result of the random generation of phase lanes and placement of gravity wells. As for Magnetic Clouds, and mine count on planets, Ill be putting that to a vote in an upcoming Topic just so the devs can get an idea of how many people agree or disagree with Amish's suggestions.

That being said, Maps aren't generally tweaked in patches (at least to my knowledge, I could be wrong) so its likely we'll have to wait for the Diplomacy release which surely will come with a nice map pack (fingers crossed), and will probably contain any map fixes recommended.

Reply #88 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Greyfox2, reply 76
I have also made comments as to scout/LF rush being a problem.  It got JJ to switch to advent after all and he was pretty diehard vasari previously.  I have always been a proponent of scouts only being used to scout and minesweep and not as a counter to lrf.  There are plenty of counters to lrf already so scouts are inappropriate for this purpose.  Decreasing the utility of the scout to lrf would eliminate the problem of scout/LF spam that is seen now(particularly from advent).  It is too mindless to spam scouts with LF as it takes no labs and no crystal even to do it.  It covers most of its counters easily(scouts kill lrf, LF kill carriers, flak, and other LF).  The only recourse is to SB, skip to HC, or pure LF spam.  Combine that with the newly OP carrier caps and you have practically an unstoppable juggernaut of spam.  I have refused to do this crap myself on principle despite playing advent only but others<read DT> have picked up on it quite readily.  If it continues like this, I will just quit sins and move on(which on previous occasions of imbalance I have not even considered).  As to the skirmishers, they do suck and could probably use an adjustment.  I would go for the first and last suggestion like most.  I certainly don't want to see vasari starting up with this LF and scout spam crap though so I may be biased against much of a nudge.

Greyfox, I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment.  It really is getting ridiculous, seeing people build fleets composed of 60 Advent scouts and 30 Disciples or 60 TEC scouts.  I don't think this game was meant to be a two military units only game.  It isn't the Disciples that are the problem; those can be countered.  It's the scouts that easily kill LRMs while LRMs have difficulty taking them down that is the problem.  If your opponent is going with scouts and disciples you need to counter that and god help you if you're not Advent.  (Maybe Vasari could hole up at its home terran with carriers and a starbase.)

Reply #89 from Sins Forums Top

If your opponent is going with scouts and disciples you need to counter that and god help you if you're not Advent.

If you see the mix, the answer is just pure light frigs. Those scouts are only good against long range frigates and seige frigates. That's it. Or a starbase. Or some version of an early game cap spam (2 caps with light frig support would be a good example).

It's not hard to counter. It's like any other strategy out there. Send out scouts to see what hell your enemy is doing and build the counter to it the second you see it. That's how I play, and for the most part it pays off.

Yes I get why people do the light frig/scout mix. Where I get lost is why having a scout that can actually do something in combat is such a problem. Some games have scouts that can fight. Some don't. This one does. They're incredibably easy to counter. Just don't build lightly armored units.

Now I will admit in the very early game stages, there isn't much of a better answer to light frig/scout rush than light frigs, but that's more the case that it's so early that teching ships is more expensive than just fielding a fleet.

Now, I will say skirmishers probably couldn't fight off the  seeker/disciple rush if the ratio of seekers to disciples is 1:1, but that's more of an issue with the skirmisher than anything else.

 

Reply #90 from Sins Forums Top

Starbases build too quickly. (I don't, this is a pet peeve of mine, but I'm still gunna say it)

Actually I eel this is still too true in enemy grav wells. I think the build rate should be lowered, but then the Vasari should be able to upgrade so their starbase can build faster. (They already have it, just tweak it to better balance VERY EARLY game starbase rushing. )

Reply #91 from Sins Forums Top

Every unit and structure present in the game should have a role.   Turrets are first tier defence structures for all factions.  If a tier one rush is not stoppable, the flaw is with tier one defence.

One reason is that turrets cost too much, as much as a frigate, when they have less utility than a scout because of their lack of mobility and limited range.  Why turrets should cost crystal when phase-capable ships don't is a mystery.  If all scouts were made to cost a minimal amount of metal and crystal in addition, and all light frigates a minimal amount of crystal, and all turrets were just credits and metal, that might seem to have more rationale? 

Another flaw is that the constructors that build structures are too vulnerable.  Constructors aren't even jump-capable ships, and its unusual for construction equipment to be lightly built- a bulldozer isn't a runabout, it's like a tank.  Constructor frigates don't have fuel, living space and phase engines to spread out their available armour more thinly.

A further flaw is that there is a limit on the number of turrets a planet can support.  Only being able to build a handful of point defence structures before an upgrade limits their usefulness, even if they were much cheaper.  A few extra points of logistics added to each planet and available at the first level might help. 

All of this could be implemented before more drastic nerfs to scouts, and it wouldn't have much impact beyond very early play.  Also, players could still be surprised by a rush, if they failed to take precautions against one.  Most importantly, it wouldn't be a return to LRF spam.

The map question is one that merits its own thread.  A variety of set maps has to be a better answer than random maps, though?  If Galaxy Forge worked properly, then militia could have structures and proper fleets ...  after all no-one would try to spam frigates and scouts against the current pirates- very unlike history!

Reply #92 from Sins Forums Top

a bulldozer isn't a runabout, it's like a tank.

Admittedly a bulldozer still doesn't even compare with a literal tank.  If you look at constructors, they actually do have HP and armour that's very similar to a combat frigate, the difference is they lack shields and shield mitigation.  That's the huge part, as shield mitigation is usually around a 50% damage reduction.

I'd actually like to see the option to build replacement constructors from the frigate factory.  This would cost resources, but you could replace them in the middle of a fight rather than waiting (obscenely long) for them to reappear normally.

Reply #93 from Sins Forums Top

Actually, having them start with auto-attack on would require some reprogramming. Scouts with auto-attack on will fight before they'll scout.

Also, technically the Light frigate is only the cobalt. The light frigs are technically called basic assault frigates.

 

Have you no sense of humor????  What is wrong with everyone...sheesh

Reply #94 from Sins Forums Top

Skirmisher:

Yay DPS (Amish's 12.5 seems reasonable, it would compliment the ship's other overpowering stats compared to the other two, and negate the need for a supply decrease)

By overpowering, i am simply refering to it's superior starting hull/armor/shields, not superiority of the ship.  I'm bowing out on that thread.

Yay reintigration fix. (60% ish sounds about right)

Nay others

Also, i don't know it it's a bug, but i've expierienced a significant slowdown in gameplay when the advent builds a starbase, whether i am playing them or the AI.  (Only when i'm zoomed into that grav well)  It's something to look into, at least.  It's only with advent, which makes me think bug.

Probably not happen, but i'd also like to see overseer and wave tech at lower tiers.

Reply #95 from Sins Forums Top

Also, maybe something could be done about the trade ports.  I haven't noticed this 1st hand, but people have been saying they take the shortest route possible.  It should be the opposite so you get the greatest benefit, since that's the best logical way for them to work.  Longer routes = more money.

Reply #96 from Sins Forums Top

Exile, I don't think most would agree with you that this is a problem.  The current system is set up the way it is deliberately so that you have to use your brain to get the most out of trade ports.  In other words, just spamming trade ports everywhere willy nilly won't get you as much as constructing the longest line of trade ports.

Trade drones will only take the shortest route if you let them.  In other words, you have to construct your trade empire so that the shortest route is actually the longest route.  Does that make any sense?

This isn't a bug or an oversight that I'm aware of.  It is a deliberate construction by the devs that I'm guessing most would agree with.

To address another topic, I don't agree with Amish on magnetic clouds, or the extractor composition of neutral wells and planets, so I'm for leaving all of that "as is."  (However, I do agree with Amish on most every other post I've seen him make :-) )

Reply #97 from Sins Forums Top

Just a suggestion.  You're probably right, but since this thread was about possible micro-changes, i thought i'd throw it out there anyway.  Like i've said, i have'd expierienced it myself, though i will look for it in future games...

Also, i agree as well.  Magnetic clouds, while a nuisance, are just another grave well on the map.  And if used strategically (When in your enemie's territory or between you)  Can be a place to even out a fight, or even turn it in your favor against an anti-matter dependant force.  The lack of an ability to build starbases is mostly what makes this viable, since you know there can be nothing there but a fleet, and who would keep their fleet waiting where it is crippled.

Question- Is it all abilities that are disrupted, or only certain ones like SB and Anti-Matter.  Haven't seen one in a while so i'm not sure.

Reply #98 from Sins Forums Top

Yay to damage increase and reintegration and nay to others

Reply #99 from Sins Forums Top

I just got off ICO, TEC vs Advent, and either my opponent got bored or i froze things up.  Here's what i know, since he dropped completely out of ICO:

1.)  i re-ordered one of my arvovas to try to bull-rush an unidentified world behind his.  I tld it to stop its last order while it was phase-jumping, and it stopped rigt where it was between the two planets.

2.) it still showed its phase shroud, but wasn't moving so i tried to scuttle.

3.) a few seconds later the you win screen came up.

4.) I should note that he was lagging a little, just not enough to affect gameplay, or so i thought.

Anyone have any theories as to what happened and whether or not this is a bug?

Also, this was vanilla sins, not entrenchment.

Reply #100 from Sins Forums Top

I don't agree with Amish on magnetic clouds, or the extractor composition of neutral wells and planets, so I'm for leaving all of that "as is."

I can sum up why I feel why I do pretty succintly:

Magnetic clouds don't bring any impact to the battlefield. I've never seen anyone fight in there because no one wants to be without their aiblities, incluidng the enemy you're trying to lay a trap for. This is probably more just my opinion than anything else.

I hate 2 mine lava/ice planets. You put the effort into teching so you can colonize the planet, and sometimes that planet has ust two mines. Just two? really? It's a specialty planet and it only provides 2 mines? Again, this is a pet peeve of mine more than anything else.