Deceiver_0 Deceiver_0

NEW Patch Stat Changes Forums [NEW TOPIC: CAPITAL SHIPS!! 1/2/10]

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NEW Patch Stat Changes Forums [NEW TOPIC: CAPITAL SHIPS!! 1/2/10]

For Sins Version 1.19 and Entrenchment 1.05

from Sins Forums

Hey everyone its that time again, lets compile some data!

This is a post that I will update regularly to give the DEVS a better idea of what people think should be done to stats in the next patch. This is ONLY for patches, no new ships or elaborate concepts for the next expansion. This is for dealing with peoples’ concerns about balance. If there’s a balance idea you have that’s not on here, post it and I’ll put it up for voting if it seems valid. I love the fact that ICO pays attention to the forums and what people suggest, I’d like to make it easier for them. The idea is to have all ideas posted straight forward and ranked so the DEVS don’t have to sift through pages and pages to find popular ideas. SP and MP players are both welcome to comment. Post yay or nay for any idea you like or dislike (be specific please) or say no fix needed. If you’d like I’ll also insert specific values you may come up with. Some votes will be taken from other threads.

BUGS

Since the last patches release, the main complaint I've seen on the forums are in the form of bugs, so I'm compiling a list of the known ones, and will update the list as more are discovered. Some of the early bugs were fixed in the hotfix, and perhaps (fingers crossed) the Devs will release another hotfix to address the rest, rather than a whole new patch. So here it goes:

- Nano Weapons Jammer autocast AI casts continuously

- AM Recharger autocast AI casts continuously

- Illuminator causes mystery damage between shots

- Phasic Trap research Level 2 still has no effect.

- Orkulus Phase Stabilizer does not work on stars.

- Random Map Bugs:

              - Single Phase lane starts

              - No connected Asteroids

              - Overlapping Gravity Wells

- Backwards Dunov Icon

- Pathing Improvements (specifically dealing with stationary obstacles)

- Orkulus commands cancelled when trade ships dock

- No wave cannon sounds on Kortul

- Resource extractors on HWs produce income before they're constructed.

- PAWELOS BUG HUNTING

- Siege Militia/pirates run from turrets before construction is complete (exploit).

 

CAPITAL SHIPS

This will be a large section that will continue to evolve through out the life of this thread so check back often for new topics. Consensus seems to think now that carrier caps have all been buffed, many of the other caps need to be brought up to par with them.

Buff Battleship Class(Kol/Radiance/Kortul)

                          Increase hp/shields/armor?-

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%)  Darvin3                Deceiver_0
                                                      CallenExile               MindsEye                 Swordsalmon
                                                      Hrabandur                CrazyElectron           Ryat
                                                      Arthanis                   Warlord Mike           Onigiri

                                     Nay-

                          Increase DPS?-

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%)  Darvin3                Deceiver_0
                                                      MindsEye                 Swordsalmon           CallenExile
                                                      Hrabandur               CrazyElectron           Ryat
                                                       Arthanis                 Warlord Mike

                                     Nay-           Onigiri

                          Buff Gauss Rail Gun?-

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz(800/1200/1600)  Darvin3       Deceiver_0
                                                      CallenExile              MindsEye                  Swordsalmon
                                                      CrazyElectron           Ryat                        Arthanis
                                                      Warlord Mike

                                     Nay-            Hrabandur              Onigiri

                          Re-work Animosity?

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz           Darvin3                   Deceiver_0
                                                      MindsEye                Swordsalmon            Ryat
                                                      Arthanis                 Warlord Mike

                                     Nay-           CallenExile              Hrabandur               Onigiri

         No Change needed-                    CoBBQ

Colonizer Caps(Akkan/Progenitor/Jarrasul)

                        Buff Jarrasul Evacuator's colonize?

                                    Yay-            Darvin3               Volt_Cruelerz              Deceiver_0
                                                      Swordsalmon       Agent of Kharma           Hrabandur
                                                      Ryat                   Arthanis                     Warlord Mike
                                                      Onigiri 

                                    Nay-            CallenExile           MindsEye

        No Change needed-

Carrier Class Caps(Sova/Halcyon/Skirantra)

                       Buff Scramble Bombers?

                                  Yay-              Darvin3              Volt_Cruelerz               Deceiver_0
                                                      MindsEye            Swordsalmon               Agent of Kharma
                                                      Hrabandur          Ryat                           Arthanis
                                                      Warlord Mike 

                                  Nay-              CallenExile         Onigiri

                      Buff Replicate Forces?

                                  Yay-               Arthanis            Warlord Mike                 Onigiri

                                  Nay-

        No Change needed-

Buff Support Class Caps(Dunov/Antorak/Rapture/Revelation)

                      Increase AM regen?

                                 Yay-               Darvin3               Hrabandur               CrazyElectron
                                                      Ryat                   Juletron                  Arthanis
                                                      Warlord Mike        Swordsalmon

                                 Nay-               CallenExile           Mindseye                 Onigiri

                     Increase maximum AM?

                                 Yay-               CallenExile          Darvin3                    Hrabandur
                                                      Mindseye            Volt_Cruelerz             CrazyElectron
                                                      Juletron              Arthanis                   Warlord Mike

                                 Nay-               Ryat                  Swordsalmon            Onigiri

                     Increase Dunov EMP range?

                                 Yay-               CallenExile          Mindseye                  Volt_Cruelerz
                                                      CrazyElectron      Ryat                        Juletron
                                                      Arthanis             Warlord Mike             Swordsalmon

                                 Nay-               Hrabandur          Onigiri

                     Allow Dunov shield restore to be self targetable?

                                Yay-                Mindseye           CrazyElectron             Juletron
                                                      Arthanis            Deceiver_0

                                Nay-                Ryat                 Volt_Cruelerz            Warlord Mike
                                                      Swordsalmon      Onigiri

                     Allow Antoraks subversion to effect SC?

                               Yay-                 Mindseye           Juletron                    Volt_Cruelerz
                                                      Arthanis            Warlord Mike             Onigiri

                               Nay-                 Ryat                Swordsalmon

                     Buff Phase out hull?

                               Yay-                 Mindseye            Juletron                   Volt_Cruelerz
                                                      Arthanis             Warlord Mike            Swordsalmon
                                                       

                               Nay-                 Ryat                 Onigiri

         No Change Needed-

 

 

DELIVERANCE ENGINE

Without a doubt the weakest of the superweapons, there is little point in seeking it. For too long its been sitting in a dusty box on the shelf, to weak to be worth its tremendous costs. Lets consider some buffs to at least make it functional as a weapon. The one buff thats been suggested that I like is an instant allegiance drop, which will aid Advent in cultural takeovers of border planets and with enough, could possibly overthrow an enemy planet (though Id say it should require many more than the fearsome novalith)

Buff Deliverance engine-

                         Cause an instant decrease in allegiance?

                                    Yay-           Deceiver_0                Kitkun                    Greyfox2
                                                     anteachtaire              Mow Mow                Warlord Mike
                                                     Hrabandur                 Arthanis

                                    Nay-           Howdidudothat

No buff needed-                                Qu4r                        Darvin3                  CallenExile        

 

 

EMPIRE TREE

As I feel that the devs decision to put "Phase Jumping" ships at the top of the tree was purposeful and not a bug, I think most of us agree that the constant movement it creates (especially with phase monitoring!) makes the empire tree difficult to use. Move it to the bottom?

Adjust Empire Tree-

                         Move "Phase Jumping Ships" to the bottom of the tree?

                                    Yay-           Deceiver_0               Darvin3                  SwordSalmon
                                                     JSW_Ballz                Mindseye                Agent of Kharma
                                                     Ryat                        52500                    Mow Mow
                                                     Fuzzy Logic              EadTaes                 Warlord Mike
                                                     Hrabandur               Howdidudothat        -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Chaotic Magician        Arthanis

                                    Nay-           CallenExile

 

FIGHTERS

Some are unsatisfied with fighters with regards to surviving flak. I urge everyone to read the points of debate between Mindseye and myself starting on page 10-11, to get a better understanding of why fighters should or should not be adjusted. Below are a few suggestions

Buff Fighters-

                        Increase armor/hp?

                                  Yay-             Mindseye                 Mow Mow                Greyfox2
                                                     Qu4r                       Arthanis          

                                  Nay-             Deceiver_0               Darvin3                  Ryat
                                                     Top Vasari               Warlord Mike           EadTaes
                                                     Hrabandur                Howdidudothat        -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Chaotic Magician       Agent of Kharma      CallenExile
                                                     CrazyElectron 

MAPS

Raging Amish has proposed some modest changes to maps that I think we could possibly have implemented with enough support, so lets get a vote to see what people think of them. Magnetic clouds are huge wastes of space as their is nothing terribly beneficial about them. People with ability heavy fleets and caps would opt to fight you somewhere else (and can do so without much penalty). They make awful chokepoints because you can't put starbases or mines there, and they offer no economic value. I'd like to hear some ideas on how to improve them (beyond removing them completely from the game as RA has suggested). If we can come up with some good ones I'll put them up for a vote. In the meantime, I think one should at least be able to construct Starbases here, so I'll put that up as a topic. Also, all too often we see Ice and Volcanic planets  (which require research to colonize) offering you only 2 resource mines for the trouble of colonizing them. Personally I don't think that PLANETS should have less resources to offer than an asteroid. What do you think?

Magnetic Clouds-

                          Allow starbase deployment?

                                    Yay-            Deceiver_0              Darvin3                  Hrabandur
                                                      Juletron                  Howdidudothat         Warlord Mike
                                                      DirtySanchezz          Kitkun                    Qu4r
                                                      CrazyElectron

                                    Nay-            Ryat                       CallenExile              EadTaes
                                                      DesConnor              -Ue_Carbon             Chaotic Magician

Ice/Volcanic planets-

                          Change minimum mines to 3 (currently 2)?

                                   Yay-             Deceiver_0              Swordsalmon           Ryat
                                                      Darvin3                   Juletron                  Mindseye
                                                      Mow Mow                 EadTaes                 JSW_Ballz
                                                      Howdidudothat         Warlord Mike          Kitkun
                                                      Ovi_187                  -Ue_Carbon            Chaotic Magician
                                                      CrazyElectron 

                                   Nay-             CallenExile              DesConnor              DirtySanchezz
                                                      Hrabandur               Agent of Kharma      Qu4r

No Changes needed-

 

 

 

ORKULUS STARBASE

This topic is going to be heavy on the debate, and will likely be updated several times with NEW votable options throughout the life of this thread. Now, I think it's safe to say that we're beyond the point of the DEVS making a Vasari Assault cruiser and making the Orky stationary. So if thats what you think should happen thats fine, but it would be more useful for everyone if you hada second opinion on the Orky and voted on the issues below.

Nerf Orkulus-

                           Increase build penalty in hostile wells? (currently 2.25x unupgraded)

                                     Yay-          Greyfox2                   Raging Amish(3x)   Mindseye
                                                     Arthanis 

                                     Nay-          Deceiver_0                 Cykur                    Howdidudothat
                                                     Top Vasari                  Swordsalmon         Ryat
                                                     anteachtaire               LordMechanoid       JSW_Ballz
                                                     Warlord Mike              Agent of Kharma    DesConnor
                                                     DirtySanchezz             Kitkun                   Qu4r
                                                     52500                        Hrabandur            -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Chaotic Magician         Qu4r                    CallenExile
                                                    

Other-

                           SB constructors trigger phase monitoring alarm? ("Hostile forces are inbound")

                                    Yay-          Mindseye                    Deceiver_0            Howdidudothat
                                                    Top Vasari                   Cykur                   LordMechanoid
                                                    Warlord Mike               DirtySanchezz        Kitkun
                                                    52500                         Hrabandur            -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Chaotic Magician           CallenExile           CrazyElectron
                                                    Arthanis 

                                    Nay-          JSW_Ballz                   DesConnor           Qu4r

 

 

SCOUT FRIGATES

A hotly debated topic right now on the forums, none can deny their increased presence on the MP battlefield. As the cheapest buildable unit in the game, as well as being tier 0, its utility against long ranged frigates has been thoroughly exploited. The question remains, is it balanced? This topic will be split into two sections, a general section for a blanket nerf and a more specific section for interspecies balance. The reason for this is that some think scouts need to be weaker in general, whike other think they need to be balanced on par wtih TEC scouts.

Nerf Scouts-

                          Decrease hp/shields?

                                     Yay-

                                     Nay-          DirtySanchezz            Cykur                Arthanis

                          Decrease DPS?

                                     Yay-          DirtySanchezz            Greyfox2           Mindseye
                                                     Arthanis 

                                     Nay-          Cykur

                          Increase Cost/supply?

                                     Yay-         Mindseye                   Cykur                 Swordsalmon

                                     Nay-         DirtySanchezz             Arthanis

No Nerf Needed-                              Deceiver_0                 Wingflier            Howdidudothat
                                                     Darvin3                      Ryat                 CallenExile
                                                     Chaotic Magician        Agent of Kharma  Sivcorp
                                                     52500                       JSW_Ballz           LordMechanoid
                                                     Kitkun                       Hrabandur          -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Qu4r                        CrazyElectron

Balance Scouts-

                          Decrease Seeker Vessels Hp/shields/armor?

                                     Yay-         Deceiver_0                 Wingflier             Mow Mow
                                                    Swordsalmon              Darvin3               Ryat
                                                    Greyfox2                    52500                 JSW_Ballz
                                                    Cykur                        Top Vasari           LordMechanoid
                                                    Kitkun                        Hrabandur          -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                          CrazyElectron       Arthanis

                                     Nay-         DirtySanchezz            Howdidudothat      CallenExile
                                                   

                          Decrease Seeker Vessels DPS?

                                     Yay-         Swordsalmon              DirtySanchezz      Howdidudothat
                                                     Greyfox2                   Hrabandur          Qu4r 

                                     Nay-         Wingflier                    Darvin3               Ryat
                                                     CallenExile                52500                 JSW_Ballz
                                                     Cykur                       LordMechanoid     Kitkun
                                                    -Ue_Carbon                 CrazyElectron       Arthanis

                          Decrease Jikara Navigator cost/supply?

                                     Yay-         Deceiver_0                 Wingflier              Howdidudothat
                                                    CallenExile                 52500                  LordMechanoid
                                                    Hrabandur                  Qu4r 

                                     Nay-         Swordsalmon              DirtySanchezz       Darvin3
                                                    Ryat                          Chaotic Magician   JSW_Ballz
                                                    Cykur                        Greyfox2             Kitkun
                                                    -Ue_Carbon                CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                          Increase Jikara Navigator DPS?

                                     Yay-         Mow Mow                   Swordsalmon         Howdidudothat
                                                    Ryat                         Chaotic Magician     52500
                                                    JSW_Ballz                  Hrabandur            -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                         CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                                     Nay-         Wingflier                   DirtySanchezz        Darvin3
                                                    CallenExile                Cykur                   Greyfox2
                                                    LordMechanoid           Kitkun   

                          Increase Jikara Navigator hp/shields?

                                     Yay-         Mow Mow                  Darvin3                  Ryat
                                                    Chaotic Magician         Sivcorp                   Top Vasari
                                                    Kitkun                      Hrabandur              -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                        CrazyElectron           Arthanis

                                     Nay-         CallenExile               JSW_Ballz               Cykur
                                                    LordMechanoid

No Balance Needed-                         Agent of Kharma      EadTaes                 DesConnor

 

 

RAVASTRA SKIRMISHERS

While the most expensive light frigate in both resources and supply, these ships have the worst DPS per supply. With the recent buff to all light frigs, Cobalts and Disciples are now delivering on the tasks they're meant to, yet skirmishers are still struggling. So what should be done?

Buff Skirmishers-

                            Increase DPS?
                                        
                                      Yay-        Deceiver_0                Darvin3               52500 
                                                    Cykur                       Chaotic Magician   Top Vasari
                                                    Howdidudothat           Wingflier              Swordsalmon
                                                    Juletron                     Ryat                   Sivcorp
                                                    DirtySanchezz             GreyFox2            Raging Amish
                                                    CallenExile                 Mindseye            JSW_Ballz
                                                    Warlord Mike              lbgsloan             Mow Mow
                                                    EadTaes                    DesConnor          Kitkun
                                                    Agent of Kharma        Hrabandur           -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                       CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                                      Nay-        LordMechanoid

                            Decrease Supply cost?

                                      Yay-        Raging Amish           LordMechanoid      Hrabandur
                                                    Qu4r    

                                      Nay-        Deceiver_0                Darvin3               52500
                                                    Cykur                       Chaotic Magician   Top Vasari
                                                    Howdidudothat           Wingflier             Swordsalmon
                                                    Juletron                    Ryat                    CallenExile                
                                                    Mindseye                  JSW_Ballz            Warlord Mike
                                                    lbgsloan                   Mow Mow              Kitkun
                                                    -Ue_Carbon               CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                            Decrease Resource cost?

                                      Yay-        52500                       Warlord Mike

                                      Nay-        Darvin3                     Cykur                Chaotic Magician  
                                                    Top Vasari                 Howdidudothat    Wingflier
                                                    Swordsalmon             Juletron              Ryat
                                                    DirtySanchezz             Raging Amish     CallenExile
                                                    Mindseye                   JSW_Ballz           LordMechanoid
                                                    lbgsloan                    Kitkun                Hrabandur
                                                    -Ue_Carbon               Qu4r                   Arthanis

                            Adjust Reintegration autocast AI to activate earlier?

                                      Yay-        Deceiver_0               Darvin3               52500
                                                    Chaotic Magician       Top Vasari           Howdidudothat          
                                                    Wingflier                  Swordsalmon       Juletron
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                                      Nay-        LordMechanoid

 

No Change Needed-

 

 

 

1,702,046 views 913 replies
Reply #751 from Sins Forums Top

I wouldnt be opposed to a buff to debris vortex to help the Orky survive an encounter with a massive fleet. Its the only Starbase tha when faced with large late game fleets, just cant dish out punishment like the other two.

Reply #752 from Sins Forums Top

I have a little problem with Orky's DPS. On the tooltip it seems very nice, but in the fight I have a feeling that it's severely lackluster. I dunno, a well developed orky takes longer to wipe lums than an argonev. One has to resort to double banking to do serious damage (ha, you don't know what that is, do you?)

Ashes of the Singularity II
Reply #753 from Sins Forums Top

Yeah...  It won't happen though I would laugh so hard if it did.  As for what N3 said...

Come to me, my yummy little snackz...

ROFL!  I already find myself monologuing whenever I bring out an orky and my enemies die from it.  Adding this would just make me do it even more.  Seriously, every time I see an enemy fleet jump to a planet with an Orky, I immediately say, "Orky does not like visitors. }:)  "  This would amplify that!

 

At any rate though I do get the ability sometimes.  After plowing through an enemy fleet, you can regenerate your health at insane rates.  Its something like 20/40 hull per debris and each ship leaves ~5-6 debris floating around...  You do the math...

Reply #754 from Sins Forums Top

And it would certainly give the phrase "I HUNGER!" new meaning. XD

The name of the DV Orky that I place around my "Homeworld Star?" Vasarus' Maw.

Reply #755 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting N3rull, reply 750
If you're in a major fleet fight, a single use of DV can restore a couple thousand hit points on the orky. It's the best thing since sliced bread. Well, second best.
Agreed. Especially with the bread > all. :P

Quoting N3rull, reply 752
I have a little problem with Orky's DPS. On the tooltip it seems very nice, but in the fight I have a feeling that it's severely lackluster. I dunno, a well developed orky takes longer to wipe lums than an argonev. One has to resort to double banking to do serious damage (ha, you don't know what that is, do you?)
Well, you're losing 75% of the Chaos Bolt's damage due to it being anti-Module damage. You're also losing 25% of the Pulse Gun and Phase Missile damage due to them being Capital Ship attack type.

 

:fox:

Reply #756 from Sins Forums Top

So..  What?  Change one of them to composite damage?

Reply #757 from Sins Forums Top

I'm new so alot of this stuff isn't something I could have a valid opinion of yet, but couple things..

the static turrets are worthless as they are. They need to be much cheaper, or have a longer range or something. They seem totally pointless. fair enough if you dont want static defence so cheap that the defender has a bigger advantage than currently, but by god, its like shooting a hand gun at space ships. with no legs.

and the other thing would be all the econ techs. i understand you guys playing for longer have a better understanding of the cost/payout over time of the techs, but i'v not seen many people buy them ever in games.

 

also, why are skirmishers more supply than assailants?

Reply #758 from Sins Forums Top

the static turrets are worthless as they are.

Not worthless, but pretty close.  If you check some of the previous pages, I've been pressuring for turrets and hangers to go to vote because they offer pretty poor performance for their cost. 

and the other thing would be all the econ techs. i understand you guys playing for longer have a better understanding of the cost/payout over time of the techs, but i'v not seen many people buy them ever in games.

There are a couple of economic techs (resource focus comes to mind) that could use help, but in general the lower-level eco techs are worth your time.  People won't get them if they're face-to-face with an enemy, but give them room to spread their feet and they'll grab plenty of those low-level techs.

also, why are skirmishers more supply than assailants?

Skirmishers are supposed to be a "heavier" unit than assailants, but they just come across as overpriced because they really aren't that much better than assailants in any meaningful way.  They need reintegration to be worth their excessive price.

As you may have noticed, we already put it up to a vote (one of the first issues in this thread) and agreed a damage buff was in order.  The devs apparently agreed because the next patch is slated to do just that, offering a fair boost to skirmisher damage.  They'll still be the weakest light frigate overall, but at least not by such a massive margin.

Reply #759 from Sins Forums Top

Well, you're losing 75% of the Chaos Bolt's damage due to it being anti-Module damage. You're also losing 25% of the Pulse Gun and Phase Missile damage due to them being Capital Ship attack type.
8C

QQ! Change pulse guns to composite, increase disintegrator DPS by half NAO!

Reply #761 from Sins Forums Top

he found it.

ignoring him.

Reply #762 from Sins Forums Top

increase disintegrator DPS by half NAO
Well, Anti-Module does full against Cap and Very Heavy and double to Module.

Composite though... Fair bit more to Medium, double to Light, bit less to Cap. Works for me.

 

:fox:

Reply #763 from Sins Forums Top

I support the Composite Damage type for Pulse Guns, if they aren't already.  If they are, never mind.

I'm all for the 1.5x Disintegrator DPS, though.  Unless it gets upgraded by SOMETHING (see my Pulse Beam argument from earlier), it's a bit "meh"-ish for its anti-structure role as it stands.

Not sure what to do with the Phase Missile Batteries, though.

Reply #764 from Sins Forums Top

Its PMB's are IMO not too bad.  A few volleys from the thing and darn near anything dies.  Maybe a 10%-20% damage boost, but nothing huge.  Other than that, I agree that Disins should be buffed by 50% and PG's should be composite so that you can take out illuminators more effectively.

Reply #765 from Stardock Forums Top

w00t! Anti-Illum Orkys!!!

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz, reply 753
"Orky does not like visitors."

Reply #766 from Sins Forums Top

Well, according to a topic somewhere else (forget which one), the PGs of the Orky are Anti-Heavy (Good only against some cruisers), the Disintegrators are anti-modular (the anti-structure damage), and PMBS are Capital-Ship Damage (fairly decent all around, though there are areas where it sucks).

So, again, I vote for PGs being Composite damage.  Again, glad I'm not the only one who's imagining things with my prized Orkies. :grin:

Reply #767 from Sins Forums Top

the problem inherient with a post like this is less then 1% of the player base visits forums on a regular basis and you expect your results to adequetly show what the playerbase wants? wake up.

Reply #768 from Sins Forums Top

And its our fault that the other 99% doesnt want to join the fourms and particpate?There is nothing wrong with this topic. Now go troll someplace else.

Reply #769 from Sins Forums Top

I believe Carbon's post is the textbook definition of "OWNED!" :thumbsup:

Reply #770 from Sins Forums Top

EDIT:  Gah...forums made me double-post...ignore, please... ^_^'

Reply #771 from Sins Forums Top

And if i refuse?  jk.

Anyway, if the other 99% don't care enough to be here, why should any of us really care?  The true fans will find a way to access the forums semi-regularly...and this post is months old.  Most of them have had at least the opportunity to contribute.  Now granted, there are relatively few people who have responded to this, but as a whole, i think this an accurate assessment of what the community wants.  Enough have posted, for both sides, and have managed to offer up valid points.  In the end, this is mostly a wish list, and its purpose was just to give ironclada few ideas or point out flaws that they may have missed.  I'd give karma for this thread, but i believe i already did.

-Exile

Reply #772 from Sins Forums Top

We're here to suggest improvements to the game. Anyone can do it, and if there are any among that 99% who aren't on the forums, then they can come on the forums and post here. Spark up some debates, recommend improvements or fixes, point out bugs, whatever. Just because they choose not to do so, doesn't mean there aren't good ideas on here. I think this topic does accurately show what the playerbase wants, at least the players that care. Everyone has their own opinions on here and for every idea that gets tossed around people posting on this site have points and counter-points to them, whether discussed or not. Some topics end up being debated, but other are much more clear as you can see above. Its all about statistics. If you have a topic that has 55% yays and 45% nays, then you can assume the community who gives a damn is somewhat divide on the issue. If its 90% yays and 10% nays, then that topic needs a closer look. Ever heard of focus groups? Thats pretty much what this is. A small portion of diverse views that can somewhat accurately represent the whole. And for those that it doesn't represent, they don't really care anyway now do they?

Reply #773 from Sins Forums Top

I think this orky talk about it doin to little damage is a non issue.Its damage is divided by 4 banks yes but each bank fires at 4 targets.The orky is really well balanced for vas imo.You want a large illum fleet killin orky then get deflector shields and have some overseers there.If he wants to get past your deflectors he will have to spilit up and fire from different sides effectively tripling your firepower.Mabye get some subs problems solved.Have trouble with sc killin your orkies?Get hanger bays with uber powerful freeze sc for minutes at a time ability.Whats the big deal?They have it all covered.

For those that keep talkin bout how vas dont have seige ship except orky and dis sucks...it doesnt.It works more like the starfish then orgrov but thats fine.It takes out large number of structures at one time and plenty fast.By the way vas dont really even need a anti mod ship.Phase missiles are all they need.50-60 kanracks with phase are prolly as good as 10 orgrovs.Same thing with bombers.Advent have nothing but bombers.Starfish sucks hard for sb.

Reply #774 from Sins Forums Top

Ok Mindseye, I don't know what gripes you have with the orky - you must be collecting data from the receiving end of the Orky's guns to think the damage is fine (as in: the less I take, the more balanced it is), but truth is that all the advantages the orky has above other SBs is the ability to move. Period.

It does not have any mass killing abilities, it does not have any fleet-boosting abilities (phase stabilizer, right! Ever saw THAT in a serious game?) and FYI frontal shields are sadly lacking and are retardedly expensive for the tier they are at. Build an orky and check it for yourself. Also, don't bring subs, overseers and Heavens know what into the equation cause the enemy can also bring demo bots, nanites, detonate antimatter, designate target and all those fancy shit that makes the Orky a damage eater with a relatively small belly.

Now as I said in my starbase banks thread, I've done some Maths (I'm a Maths student that's just passed an exam, so that's what I do) and here are the results:

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/3018/starbasecharts.jpg

I can mail you the excel spreadsheet if you wanna check the numbers. If you wanna see the specific numbers for each weapon type on each starbase, see:
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7629/spreadsheetfull.jpg

The conclusions are:
- Orky deals only slightly more damage to structures unless completely stuffed with upgrades.
- Orky sucks against LRFs unless completely stuffed with upgrades (most people ride HC/bomber fleets by then).
- Orky shines its balls on caps and heavy cruisers and only manages to catch the other two when absolutely maxed out.
- Orky deals huge damage to fighters and bombers (!!! :D)
- Orky deals good damage to heavy armor type - IF the enemy really lets the orkulus catch his Carriers (yeah, rite).

Now couple that with:
- Orky sucks as a non-battlestation. Colony pods suck. Single trade upgrade. No culture. No fleet boosters. It just flies and shoots.
- most importantly has zero mass effects. Transcencia has meteors and disorient, which rock ass. Argonev has boons, production capability and the red button. Orky has... Phase gate! Yay. Count the times you've seen this in a game.

The only way the Orkulus can really shine as what it is, a battlestation, is when it fires all its banks... which the enemy will not allow (wanna come here between my ships to fire all your guns? Okay, but you're out of repair station range and no longer covering whatever it was you were covering. My handful of <whatever> will take care of those, thanks).

So that's it. Read it as you will, but I think something really sucks here (and I pointed it out on this pic).

Oh and now I know why making siege cruisers "heavy armored" would be a bad idea - Orky's pulse guns are anti-heavy :P.

My suggested fix would be - make Pulse beam upgrades increase Disintegrator damage as well.
It would solve a heap of issues:
1. Orky is currently doing only a little more damage to the enemy SB than the enemy SB is doing to it. This means that Orky either needs extensive overseer support and a lot of time or has to be upgraded into insanity, which in turn is hard to do when the enemy upgrades his own starbase, like... almost twice as fast? This would give the Orky the edge it needs (so that you do not have to make a generally-useless 3 offense 4 defense starbase just to take out his 2 off 3 def one that keeps pumping him credits/culture/whatever).
2. Pulse beam upgrades are useless. This would make them worthwhile.
3. It would fix, to some extent, the very low anti-heavy-cruiser and anti-capital damage the orky has.

Reply #775 from Sins Forums Top

I will agree with minds.  Illums suck against an orkulus thats even somewhat upgraded unless you have an overwhelming fleet with support(destra work much better at this cause illums don't use sidebeams against SBs and destra are tougher to kill and damage is more focused).  You are pretty much forced to use bombers to kill them because engaging in them directly will result in an unacceptable amount of fleet loss for the value you get unless the orky is not upgraded and you have an overwhelming fleet.  The orky does not get AEs like the other 2.  However the orkulus is tough as nails to kill(with frontal shields and debris vortex) and it can move.  It is by no means underpowered and is somewhat OP and needs a nerf in build times in enemy wells.  The anti structure damage is similar to a starfish in that it deals to multiple targets as minds mentioned.  However unlike the starfish it is tough to kill and damages other things too.  All this has been discussed already several pages ago in this thread.  Increasing its damage would be a mistake.

 

[_]-Greyfox