Deceiver_0 Deceiver_0

NEW Patch Stat Changes Forums [NEW TOPIC: CAPITAL SHIPS!! 1/2/10]

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NEW Patch Stat Changes Forums [NEW TOPIC: CAPITAL SHIPS!! 1/2/10]

For Sins Version 1.19 and Entrenchment 1.05

from Sins Forums

Hey everyone its that time again, lets compile some data!

This is a post that I will update regularly to give the DEVS a better idea of what people think should be done to stats in the next patch. This is ONLY for patches, no new ships or elaborate concepts for the next expansion. This is for dealing with peoples’ concerns about balance. If there’s a balance idea you have that’s not on here, post it and I’ll put it up for voting if it seems valid. I love the fact that ICO pays attention to the forums and what people suggest, I’d like to make it easier for them. The idea is to have all ideas posted straight forward and ranked so the DEVS don’t have to sift through pages and pages to find popular ideas. SP and MP players are both welcome to comment. Post yay or nay for any idea you like or dislike (be specific please) or say no fix needed. If you’d like I’ll also insert specific values you may come up with. Some votes will be taken from other threads.

BUGS

Since the last patches release, the main complaint I've seen on the forums are in the form of bugs, so I'm compiling a list of the known ones, and will update the list as more are discovered. Some of the early bugs were fixed in the hotfix, and perhaps (fingers crossed) the Devs will release another hotfix to address the rest, rather than a whole new patch. So here it goes:

- Nano Weapons Jammer autocast AI casts continuously

- AM Recharger autocast AI casts continuously

- Illuminator causes mystery damage between shots

- Phasic Trap research Level 2 still has no effect.

- Orkulus Phase Stabilizer does not work on stars.

- Random Map Bugs:

              - Single Phase lane starts

              - No connected Asteroids

              - Overlapping Gravity Wells

- Backwards Dunov Icon

- Pathing Improvements (specifically dealing with stationary obstacles)

- Orkulus commands cancelled when trade ships dock

- No wave cannon sounds on Kortul

- Resource extractors on HWs produce income before they're constructed.

- PAWELOS BUG HUNTING

- Siege Militia/pirates run from turrets before construction is complete (exploit).

 

CAPITAL SHIPS

This will be a large section that will continue to evolve through out the life of this thread so check back often for new topics. Consensus seems to think now that carrier caps have all been buffed, many of the other caps need to be brought up to par with them.

Buff Battleship Class(Kol/Radiance/Kortul)

                          Increase hp/shields/armor?-

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%)  Darvin3                Deceiver_0
                                                      CallenExile               MindsEye                 Swordsalmon
                                                      Hrabandur                CrazyElectron           Ryat
                                                      Arthanis                   Warlord Mike           Onigiri

                                     Nay-

                          Increase DPS?-

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%)  Darvin3                Deceiver_0
                                                      MindsEye                 Swordsalmon           CallenExile
                                                      Hrabandur               CrazyElectron           Ryat
                                                       Arthanis                 Warlord Mike

                                     Nay-           Onigiri

                          Buff Gauss Rail Gun?-

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz(800/1200/1600)  Darvin3       Deceiver_0
                                                      CallenExile              MindsEye                  Swordsalmon
                                                      CrazyElectron           Ryat                        Arthanis
                                                      Warlord Mike

                                     Nay-            Hrabandur              Onigiri

                          Re-work Animosity?

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz           Darvin3                   Deceiver_0
                                                      MindsEye                Swordsalmon            Ryat
                                                      Arthanis                 Warlord Mike

                                     Nay-           CallenExile              Hrabandur               Onigiri

         No Change needed-                    CoBBQ

Colonizer Caps(Akkan/Progenitor/Jarrasul)

                        Buff Jarrasul Evacuator's colonize?

                                    Yay-            Darvin3               Volt_Cruelerz              Deceiver_0
                                                      Swordsalmon       Agent of Kharma           Hrabandur
                                                      Ryat                   Arthanis                     Warlord Mike
                                                      Onigiri 

                                    Nay-            CallenExile           MindsEye

        No Change needed-

Carrier Class Caps(Sova/Halcyon/Skirantra)

                       Buff Scramble Bombers?

                                  Yay-              Darvin3              Volt_Cruelerz               Deceiver_0
                                                      MindsEye            Swordsalmon               Agent of Kharma
                                                      Hrabandur          Ryat                           Arthanis
                                                      Warlord Mike 

                                  Nay-              CallenExile         Onigiri

                      Buff Replicate Forces?

                                  Yay-               Arthanis            Warlord Mike                 Onigiri

                                  Nay-

        No Change needed-

Buff Support Class Caps(Dunov/Antorak/Rapture/Revelation)

                      Increase AM regen?

                                 Yay-               Darvin3               Hrabandur               CrazyElectron
                                                      Ryat                   Juletron                  Arthanis
                                                      Warlord Mike        Swordsalmon

                                 Nay-               CallenExile           Mindseye                 Onigiri

                     Increase maximum AM?

                                 Yay-               CallenExile          Darvin3                    Hrabandur
                                                      Mindseye            Volt_Cruelerz             CrazyElectron
                                                      Juletron              Arthanis                   Warlord Mike

                                 Nay-               Ryat                  Swordsalmon            Onigiri

                     Increase Dunov EMP range?

                                 Yay-               CallenExile          Mindseye                  Volt_Cruelerz
                                                      CrazyElectron      Ryat                        Juletron
                                                      Arthanis             Warlord Mike             Swordsalmon

                                 Nay-               Hrabandur          Onigiri

                     Allow Dunov shield restore to be self targetable?

                                Yay-                Mindseye           CrazyElectron             Juletron
                                                      Arthanis            Deceiver_0

                                Nay-                Ryat                 Volt_Cruelerz            Warlord Mike
                                                      Swordsalmon      Onigiri

                     Allow Antoraks subversion to effect SC?

                               Yay-                 Mindseye           Juletron                    Volt_Cruelerz
                                                      Arthanis            Warlord Mike             Onigiri

                               Nay-                 Ryat                Swordsalmon

                     Buff Phase out hull?

                               Yay-                 Mindseye            Juletron                   Volt_Cruelerz
                                                      Arthanis             Warlord Mike            Swordsalmon
                                                       

                               Nay-                 Ryat                 Onigiri

         No Change Needed-

 

 

DELIVERANCE ENGINE

Without a doubt the weakest of the superweapons, there is little point in seeking it. For too long its been sitting in a dusty box on the shelf, to weak to be worth its tremendous costs. Lets consider some buffs to at least make it functional as a weapon. The one buff thats been suggested that I like is an instant allegiance drop, which will aid Advent in cultural takeovers of border planets and with enough, could possibly overthrow an enemy planet (though Id say it should require many more than the fearsome novalith)

Buff Deliverance engine-

                         Cause an instant decrease in allegiance?

                                    Yay-           Deceiver_0                Kitkun                    Greyfox2
                                                     anteachtaire              Mow Mow                Warlord Mike
                                                     Hrabandur                 Arthanis

                                    Nay-           Howdidudothat

No buff needed-                                Qu4r                        Darvin3                  CallenExile        

 

 

EMPIRE TREE

As I feel that the devs decision to put "Phase Jumping" ships at the top of the tree was purposeful and not a bug, I think most of us agree that the constant movement it creates (especially with phase monitoring!) makes the empire tree difficult to use. Move it to the bottom?

Adjust Empire Tree-

                         Move "Phase Jumping Ships" to the bottom of the tree?

                                    Yay-           Deceiver_0               Darvin3                  SwordSalmon
                                                     JSW_Ballz                Mindseye                Agent of Kharma
                                                     Ryat                        52500                    Mow Mow
                                                     Fuzzy Logic              EadTaes                 Warlord Mike
                                                     Hrabandur               Howdidudothat        -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Chaotic Magician        Arthanis

                                    Nay-           CallenExile

 

FIGHTERS

Some are unsatisfied with fighters with regards to surviving flak. I urge everyone to read the points of debate between Mindseye and myself starting on page 10-11, to get a better understanding of why fighters should or should not be adjusted. Below are a few suggestions

Buff Fighters-

                        Increase armor/hp?

                                  Yay-             Mindseye                 Mow Mow                Greyfox2
                                                     Qu4r                       Arthanis          

                                  Nay-             Deceiver_0               Darvin3                  Ryat
                                                     Top Vasari               Warlord Mike           EadTaes
                                                     Hrabandur                Howdidudothat        -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Chaotic Magician       Agent of Kharma      CallenExile
                                                     CrazyElectron 

MAPS

Raging Amish has proposed some modest changes to maps that I think we could possibly have implemented with enough support, so lets get a vote to see what people think of them. Magnetic clouds are huge wastes of space as their is nothing terribly beneficial about them. People with ability heavy fleets and caps would opt to fight you somewhere else (and can do so without much penalty). They make awful chokepoints because you can't put starbases or mines there, and they offer no economic value. I'd like to hear some ideas on how to improve them (beyond removing them completely from the game as RA has suggested). If we can come up with some good ones I'll put them up for a vote. In the meantime, I think one should at least be able to construct Starbases here, so I'll put that up as a topic. Also, all too often we see Ice and Volcanic planets  (which require research to colonize) offering you only 2 resource mines for the trouble of colonizing them. Personally I don't think that PLANETS should have less resources to offer than an asteroid. What do you think?

Magnetic Clouds-

                          Allow starbase deployment?

                                    Yay-            Deceiver_0              Darvin3                  Hrabandur
                                                      Juletron                  Howdidudothat         Warlord Mike
                                                      DirtySanchezz          Kitkun                    Qu4r
                                                      CrazyElectron

                                    Nay-            Ryat                       CallenExile              EadTaes
                                                      DesConnor              -Ue_Carbon             Chaotic Magician

Ice/Volcanic planets-

                          Change minimum mines to 3 (currently 2)?

                                   Yay-             Deceiver_0              Swordsalmon           Ryat
                                                      Darvin3                   Juletron                  Mindseye
                                                      Mow Mow                 EadTaes                 JSW_Ballz
                                                      Howdidudothat         Warlord Mike          Kitkun
                                                      Ovi_187                  -Ue_Carbon            Chaotic Magician
                                                      CrazyElectron 

                                   Nay-             CallenExile              DesConnor              DirtySanchezz
                                                      Hrabandur               Agent of Kharma      Qu4r

No Changes needed-

 

 

 

ORKULUS STARBASE

This topic is going to be heavy on the debate, and will likely be updated several times with NEW votable options throughout the life of this thread. Now, I think it's safe to say that we're beyond the point of the DEVS making a Vasari Assault cruiser and making the Orky stationary. So if thats what you think should happen thats fine, but it would be more useful for everyone if you hada second opinion on the Orky and voted on the issues below.

Nerf Orkulus-

                           Increase build penalty in hostile wells? (currently 2.25x unupgraded)

                                     Yay-          Greyfox2                   Raging Amish(3x)   Mindseye
                                                     Arthanis 

                                     Nay-          Deceiver_0                 Cykur                    Howdidudothat
                                                     Top Vasari                  Swordsalmon         Ryat
                                                     anteachtaire               LordMechanoid       JSW_Ballz
                                                     Warlord Mike              Agent of Kharma    DesConnor
                                                     DirtySanchezz             Kitkun                   Qu4r
                                                     52500                        Hrabandur            -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Chaotic Magician         Qu4r                    CallenExile
                                                    

Other-

                           SB constructors trigger phase monitoring alarm? ("Hostile forces are inbound")

                                    Yay-          Mindseye                    Deceiver_0            Howdidudothat
                                                    Top Vasari                   Cykur                   LordMechanoid
                                                    Warlord Mike               DirtySanchezz        Kitkun
                                                    52500                         Hrabandur            -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Chaotic Magician           CallenExile           CrazyElectron
                                                    Arthanis 

                                    Nay-          JSW_Ballz                   DesConnor           Qu4r

 

 

SCOUT FRIGATES

A hotly debated topic right now on the forums, none can deny their increased presence on the MP battlefield. As the cheapest buildable unit in the game, as well as being tier 0, its utility against long ranged frigates has been thoroughly exploited. The question remains, is it balanced? This topic will be split into two sections, a general section for a blanket nerf and a more specific section for interspecies balance. The reason for this is that some think scouts need to be weaker in general, whike other think they need to be balanced on par wtih TEC scouts.

Nerf Scouts-

                          Decrease hp/shields?

                                     Yay-

                                     Nay-          DirtySanchezz            Cykur                Arthanis

                          Decrease DPS?

                                     Yay-          DirtySanchezz            Greyfox2           Mindseye
                                                     Arthanis 

                                     Nay-          Cykur

                          Increase Cost/supply?

                                     Yay-         Mindseye                   Cykur                 Swordsalmon

                                     Nay-         DirtySanchezz             Arthanis

No Nerf Needed-                              Deceiver_0                 Wingflier            Howdidudothat
                                                     Darvin3                      Ryat                 CallenExile
                                                     Chaotic Magician        Agent of Kharma  Sivcorp
                                                     52500                       JSW_Ballz           LordMechanoid
                                                     Kitkun                       Hrabandur          -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Qu4r                        CrazyElectron

Balance Scouts-

                          Decrease Seeker Vessels Hp/shields/armor?

                                     Yay-         Deceiver_0                 Wingflier             Mow Mow
                                                    Swordsalmon              Darvin3               Ryat
                                                    Greyfox2                    52500                 JSW_Ballz
                                                    Cykur                        Top Vasari           LordMechanoid
                                                    Kitkun                        Hrabandur          -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                          CrazyElectron       Arthanis

                                     Nay-         DirtySanchezz            Howdidudothat      CallenExile
                                                   

                          Decrease Seeker Vessels DPS?

                                     Yay-         Swordsalmon              DirtySanchezz      Howdidudothat
                                                     Greyfox2                   Hrabandur          Qu4r 

                                     Nay-         Wingflier                    Darvin3               Ryat
                                                     CallenExile                52500                 JSW_Ballz
                                                     Cykur                       LordMechanoid     Kitkun
                                                    -Ue_Carbon                 CrazyElectron       Arthanis

                          Decrease Jikara Navigator cost/supply?

                                     Yay-         Deceiver_0                 Wingflier              Howdidudothat
                                                    CallenExile                 52500                  LordMechanoid
                                                    Hrabandur                  Qu4r 

                                     Nay-         Swordsalmon              DirtySanchezz       Darvin3
                                                    Ryat                          Chaotic Magician   JSW_Ballz
                                                    Cykur                        Greyfox2             Kitkun
                                                    -Ue_Carbon                CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                          Increase Jikara Navigator DPS?

                                     Yay-         Mow Mow                   Swordsalmon         Howdidudothat
                                                    Ryat                         Chaotic Magician     52500
                                                    JSW_Ballz                  Hrabandur            -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                         CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                                     Nay-         Wingflier                   DirtySanchezz        Darvin3
                                                    CallenExile                Cykur                   Greyfox2
                                                    LordMechanoid           Kitkun   

                          Increase Jikara Navigator hp/shields?

                                     Yay-         Mow Mow                  Darvin3                  Ryat
                                                    Chaotic Magician         Sivcorp                   Top Vasari
                                                    Kitkun                      Hrabandur              -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                        CrazyElectron           Arthanis

                                     Nay-         CallenExile               JSW_Ballz               Cykur
                                                    LordMechanoid

No Balance Needed-                         Agent of Kharma      EadTaes                 DesConnor

 

 

RAVASTRA SKIRMISHERS

While the most expensive light frigate in both resources and supply, these ships have the worst DPS per supply. With the recent buff to all light frigs, Cobalts and Disciples are now delivering on the tasks they're meant to, yet skirmishers are still struggling. So what should be done?

Buff Skirmishers-

                            Increase DPS?
                                        
                                      Yay-        Deceiver_0                Darvin3               52500 
                                                    Cykur                       Chaotic Magician   Top Vasari
                                                    Howdidudothat           Wingflier              Swordsalmon
                                                    Juletron                     Ryat                   Sivcorp
                                                    DirtySanchezz             GreyFox2            Raging Amish
                                                    CallenExile                 Mindseye            JSW_Ballz
                                                    Warlord Mike              lbgsloan             Mow Mow
                                                    EadTaes                    DesConnor          Kitkun
                                                    Agent of Kharma        Hrabandur           -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                       CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                                      Nay-        LordMechanoid

                            Decrease Supply cost?

                                      Yay-        Raging Amish           LordMechanoid      Hrabandur
                                                    Qu4r    

                                      Nay-        Deceiver_0                Darvin3               52500
                                                    Cykur                       Chaotic Magician   Top Vasari
                                                    Howdidudothat           Wingflier             Swordsalmon
                                                    Juletron                    Ryat                    CallenExile                
                                                    Mindseye                  JSW_Ballz            Warlord Mike
                                                    lbgsloan                   Mow Mow              Kitkun
                                                    -Ue_Carbon               CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                            Decrease Resource cost?

                                      Yay-        52500                       Warlord Mike

                                      Nay-        Darvin3                     Cykur                Chaotic Magician  
                                                    Top Vasari                 Howdidudothat    Wingflier
                                                    Swordsalmon             Juletron              Ryat
                                                    DirtySanchezz             Raging Amish     CallenExile
                                                    Mindseye                   JSW_Ballz           LordMechanoid
                                                    lbgsloan                    Kitkun                Hrabandur
                                                    -Ue_Carbon               Qu4r                   Arthanis

                            Adjust Reintegration autocast AI to activate earlier?

                                      Yay-        Deceiver_0               Darvin3               52500
                                                    Chaotic Magician       Top Vasari           Howdidudothat          
                                                    Wingflier                  Swordsalmon       Juletron
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No Change Needed-

 

 

 

1,702,803 views 913 replies
Reply #701 from Sins Forums Top

There should be something like:

Unit A > Unit B > Unit C > Unit A

and

Hight tier > Low tier

It is the most basic part of correct counters system...

 

 

Reply #702 from Sins Forums Top

Why HC should not be defeated by a Tier 0 unit?  The light frigates already have a 50% damage penalty to the HC and if there is decent strikecraft coverage, the HC will be the prime unit of choice as bombers will not reach it and the LRFs will die quickly under the combined barrage of HC and strikecraft.  However, the test may be much more different if the time limit was reduced to 15 mintes as the ship count will be 45 disciples to 16 Kodiaks.  While the odds were still 3 to 1, the Kodiak's tough armor plus shield mitigation may be of more help.

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Reply #703 from Sins Forums Top

If you count supply 90 disiples is 360 supply while 32 Kodiacs is only 160 supply. You HC where greatly outnumbered.

I guess that's my point.  You can't churn out HC fast enough in its present condition to counter what it is supposed to counter.  So either it should build faster, or it should be buffed (or other stuff nerfed against it).

Assessing balance isn't just looking at supply and cost.  You also have to consider build speed.

but in reality, few people actually use very many LF as they are the first things to die in a battle due to LRF.

Don't know if you are playing online or not, but either way, what you are saying is "old patch thinking."  There is lots of lf spam online, particularly advent disciple spam (no surpise there).  Listen, don't take my word for it, ask some of the other people posting here, like Deceiver, Darvin, etc.  I mean, I can't be the only guy seeing lots of disciple spam.

So really, what you demonstrated is you being outnumbered and the weakness of Hoshis to LF.

What I demonstrated is the most ideal situation you can get - the chance to build an eco and then churn out as many hc as you can, UNMOLESTED, within a 30 minute window.  If you can't churn out enough under those ideal conditions, you certainly aren't going to churn out enough in any real game situation.  What I demonstrated was a balance issue.

However, the test may be much more different if the time limit was reduced to 15 mintes as the ship count will be 45 disciples to 16 Kodiaks.  While the odds were still 3 to 1, the Kodiak's tough armor plus shield mitigation may be of more help.

Actually, I did the tests with an earlier window with poor results, and thought that an extended window would offer more time to possibly reach a "critical mass" of hc (if there is one), plus time to add armor and hull like everybody says.

Reply #704 from Sins Forums Top

32 kodiacs is 320 fleet supply.

Reply #705 from Sins Forums Top

Err yeah. Sorry calculating mentaly in my mind at 530am made me belive Kodiacs had 5 supply lol.

Reply #706 from Sins Forums Top

No replay needed - try it yourself and report your results.

 

LOL, Why when you did all the hard work :P I only wanted to see the actuall number of units, how each of you did production, and the actual battle.

 

I actually dont mind HC not doing so well against LF. LF are anti-heavy I think anyhow. Besides we know a HC can take 2-3 LF. Now I know you know this and it wasnt part of your test but if you had a resonable number of LRF, any ammount of LF would be null in time. Allowing your HC to last long and do their thing.

 

If we reduce damage taken by HC from LRF and/or increase damage done to LRF from HC you can get a soft balance triangle. NOT Including Fighters/Bombers...We know they are effective but require a whole new fleet formula due to adding carriers and flak.

 

Quick question again...has anyone made a quick mod and with our proposed changes to see how they work out? Just changing the damage modifers does make a difference.

Reply #707 from Sins Forums Top

Hight tier > Low tier

It is the most basic part of correct counters system...

This has always been one of the more difficult, counterintuitive, weird aspects of the game.  It should be (in general) High tier > Low Tier.  This game is backwards, Low tier > High tier.

Examples:

scouts > lrf
lf > flak
lf > carrier cruisers
lf > other cruisers
carriers (bombers) > hc

Reply #708 from Sins Forums Top

Honestly, when I first started playing the game (and thus before getting on the forum) I used LF quite frequently as the primary damage dealers of my fleet and used LRF very little which of course made beating the AI far harder as I was trying to beat it at its own game.  However, I also assumed that HC's were LF's big brother that should replace them late game.  This idea I believe ought to still stand.  HC IMO must be better than equal FC amounts of LF.  Sure, LF are anti-heavy, so they should put up a fight, but HC's are composite.  Which is basically anti-all...  For this reason, I believe that aside from abilities, HC should limit LF usage late game.

This idea is what generated the Defense Cruiser in my mod.  Flak Frigates are still viable due to their abilities, but the majority of AVL and AL damage is done by the DC.  I personally like this system.  This is what I think should happen:

> greater than by a good margin
-> slaughter
) greater than by a slight margin

HC>Scout
HC>LRF
HC )LF
HC->Support
HC->Carrier
HC )Capital 

LF>Support
LF>Carriers
LF )Scout

LRF>LF
LRF )Support
LRF )Carrier

 

Reply #709 from Sins Forums Top

Then again:

lrfs>lfs
Carriers (fighters)>lrfs
Hc>lrfs (erm at least its supposed to be, and in most cases is, save the illum)
flak>scouts

So its forwards and backwards. Which is one of the reasons its so complex.

Also I did your test Kharma, as far as how many kodies I can produce in 30 minutes vs how many disciples. Kodiaks=77, Disciples= 243. I have seen disciple spam a bit lately, though usually LRM spam will smack it down with little trouble. I am curious, however, about Disciple build speed as compared to Cobalts. It seems to me that disciple build speed is disproportionate to what it should be in relation to the Cobalt (which most can agree is middle of the road, just like TEC scouts). Though Im not really sure. Eitherway, against disciple spam you can do LF spam back or Lrf spam. Teching too high right off the bat will not work because of the costs (despite whatever econ youve built, if your opponent has a similar one, hes going to win with numbers). My hunch is if I did the same test but with Javs, I could produce an amount of them that would certainly annihilate 243 disciples. And that same number of javs would probably have trouble with 77 kodiaks. Ergo climbing the tech ladder. The thing about HCs I dont want to see is everyone rushing for HCs. The game has some built in deterrents for tech rushing that make it harder (not impossible), and I fear that buffing HCs too much will make those deterrents less effective. I don't know, Im a little on the fence about helping out HCs. On the one hand, I want to see lrf spam go away more, on the other I dont want to see HC rushing. Anyways, Ill put up a vote on reducing lrf damage to v.hvy armor and maybe cap ship armor. It could use some reduction, but personally I dont think it needs to be more than 10%. Like I said much earlier I think against cap armor the dmg types should be penalized as follows - antiheavy(lfs)-50% antimedium(lrfs):66% composite(HCs):75%. As for Anti medium vs V.heavy armor. Maybe reduce it to 66% or increase composite damage to light armor to 133%.

 

Reply #710 from Sins Forums Top

I still think increasing bomber damage vs lrf would be a good idea.It would make carriers more usable and fullfill their role as anti lrf better.It would also force fleet diversification.Only other ship that uses light armor is scout?Right now bomber does 50% to lrf.75-100 would prolly do it.It would not change any other relationships of other ships.

If I was to buff hc I would proll give lf and lrf a 5% nerf damagewise to them.They dont need much.Bombers handle them quite nicely.

Reply #711 from Sins Forums Top

IMO both fighters AND bombers should be effective counter to LRF.

Caps and HCs should have no problems with countering them too.

Reply #712 from Sins Forums Top

Bombers should NOT be more effective at killing LRF.  I have already noticed a late game trend where fighters stop getting built because massed bombers can alpha strike large targets before fighters can counter them.  While I don't expect this to change, there has to be some incentive to make fighters.

Reply #713 from Sins Forums Top

Also I did your test Kharma, as far as how many kodies I can produce in 30 minutes vs how many disciples. Kodiaks=77, Disciples= 243.

Did you carry the test through to see which one would win in a fight?

Reply #714 from Sins Forums Top

I have already noticed a late game trend where fighters stop getting built because massed bombers can alpha strike large targets before fighters can counter them.

My main SB at strategic choke got alpha struck the other day in 1v1 vs. tec.  It was a good game.  I had subverters and other toys :-)

You back and playing now?

Reply #715 from Sins Forums Top

My main SB at strategic choke got alpha struck the other day in 1v1 vs. tec. It was a good game. I had subverters and other toys

You back and playing now?

No, I log in every couple weeks to check the forums.

Reply #716 from Sins Forums Top

Proposed Capship changes (I made some updates, including removing supportcaps 5 squadrons):


Global changes:

- Damage taken by Caps from ANTI-MEDIUM (LRF) reduced to 50% (from 75%)
- Damage taken by Caps from ANTI-HEAVY (LF) increased to 75% (from 50%)

- CAPITAL damage vs LIGHT ARMOR (LRF) increased to 100% (from 75%)

- Shield regeneration rate on all caps increased to 4/sec (from 3/sec)
- Hull repair rate on all caps increased to 2/sec (from 1.5/sec)



Capital Battleships:

Kol Battleship:
- Health increased to 3300 (+300, from 3000)
- Shields increased to 1450 (+200, from 1250)
- Beam DPS increased to 14.0 (from 9.0)
- Laser DPS increased to 13.25 (from 8.25)
- Armor increased to 6 (from 5)
- Max number of strikecrafts increased to 3 (from 2)
- Ship start with 1 SC squadron, additional squadrons at lvl5 and lvl10
- Railguns: Antimatter cost decreased to 30 (from 75)
- Railguns: Cooldown increased to 12 (from 6)
- Flak Burst: Antimatter cost reduced to 50 (from 100)

Radiance Battleship:
- Health increased to 2400 (+200, from 2200)
- Shields increased to 2050 (+300, from 1750)
- Beam DPS increased to 20.0 (from 15.0)
- Plasma DPS increased to 15.0 (from 10.0)
- Armor increased to 5.5 (from 4.5)
- Max number of squadrons increased to 3 (from 2)
- Ship start with 1 SC squadron, additional squadrons at lvl5 and lvl10
- Animosity: affected ships now have 5%/10%/15% accuracy reduction (effective 5%/10%/15% damage reduction)

Kortul Devastator:
- Health increased to 2900 (+250, from 2650)
- Shields increased to 1675 (+250, from 1425)
- Wave DPS increased to 17.0 (from 12.0)
- Phase Missiles DPS increased to 10.8 (from 5.8)
- Armor increased to 6 (from 5)
- Max number of Squadrons increased to 3 (from 2)
- Ship start with 1 SC squadron, additional squadrons at lvl5 and lvl10
- Disruptive Strikes: Triggering chance increased to 33% (from 25%)
- Disruptive Strikes: Abilities cooldown increase increased to 25%/50%/75% (from 17%/33%/50%)
- Jam Weapons: Affected strikecrafts get 2 damage/second in addition to already existing effects





Capital Support:

Dunov Battlecruiser:
- Health increased to 3000 (+200, from 2800)
- Shields increased to 1225 (+100, from 1125)
- Autocannons DPS increased to 11.0 (from 6.0)
- Missile DPS increased to 11.0 (from 6.0)
- Armor increased to 5 (from 4)
- Magnetize: Antimatter cost decreased to 50 (from 80)
- EMP Charge: Now act as interrupt
- EMP Charge: Now disable weapons for 4/6/8 seconds

Rapture Battlecruiser:
- Health increased to 2200 (+100, from 2100)
- Shields increased to 1825 (+200, from 1625)
- Laser DPS increased to 16.0 (from 11.0)
- Beam DPS increased to 14.0 (from 9.0)
- Armor increased to 5 (from 4)
- Vertigo: Range increased to 6000 (from 4500)
- Vertigo: Area Radius increased to 2500/3000/3500 (from 2000/2500/3000)
- Domination: Antimatter Cost reduced to 75 (from 150)

Antorak Marauder:
- Health increased to 2675 (+150, from 2525)
- Shields increased to 1375 (+150, from 1225)
- Pulse Beam DPS increased to 17.0 (from 12.0)
- Phase Missiles DPS increased to 15.0 (from 10.0)
- Armor increased to 5 (from 4)
- Distort Gravity: Gravity well range to Phase Jump reduction increased to 15%/30%/45% (from 8%/16%/24%)
- Subversion: Now reduces planet income and resources production by 10%/15%/20% in addition to already existing effects






Capital Planet Killer:

Marza Dreadnauth:
- Max number of squadrons increased to 3 (from 1)
- Ship start with 1 SC squadron, additional squadrons at lvl5 and lvl10
- Incendiady Shells: damage rate increased to 6/9/12 (from 3/4.5/6)

Revelation Battlecruiser:
- Max number of squadrons increased to 3 (from 2)
- Ship start with 1 SC squadron, additional squadrons at lvl5 and lvl10
- Guidance: Antimatter cost reduced to 35 (from 75)
- Guidance: cooldown time reduced to 10 (from 20)

Vulkoras Desolator:
- Max number of squadrons increased to 3 (from 1)
- Ship start with 1 SC squadron, additional squadrons at lvl5 and lvl10
- Phase Missiles Swarm: Antimatter cost reduced to 60 (from 90)




Capital Carrier:

Sova Carrier:
- Heavy Strikecraft: damage buff increased to 15%/30%/45% (from 12%/24%/36%)
- Heavy Strikecraft: armor buff increased to 4/5/6 (from 2/3.5/5)
- Ship start with 2 SC squadrons, additional squadrons at lvl2, lvl3, lvl4, lvl6, lvl8 and lvl10

Halycon Carrier:
- Telekinetic Push: Cooldown increased to 20 (from 10)
- Anima Tempest: Cooldown reduced to 90 (from 180)
- Ship start with 2 SC squadrons, additional squadrons at lvl2, lvl3, lvl4, lvl6, lvl8 and lvl10


Skinatra Carrier:
- Scramble Bombers: Antimatter cost reduced to 40/30/20 (from 50/40/30)
- Scramble Bombers: Spawned bombers get 25% increased chance to dodge for 120s
- Microphasing Aura: Radius increased to 12000 (from 8000)
- Replicate Forces: Create 8 frigates or 4 cruisers (instead of 3 frigates or 3 cruisers)
- Ship start with 2 SC squadrons, additional squadrons at lvl2, lvl3, lvl4, lvl6, lvl8 and lvl10





Capital Colony Ship:

Akkan Battleruiser:
- Targeting Uplink: Now give 5%/10%/15% DPS increase in addition to already existing bonuses


Jarrasul Evacuator:
- Colonize: Now add 100% population grow increasese for 240/480/720s in addition to already existing bonuses

Reply #717 from Sins Forums Top

Cykur you think carrier to lrf is fine the way it is?Alpha strikes happen with any unit.100 lrf will snipe any capship before any amount of sc or any other ship can kill them.Same for bombers,hc,and to a degree lf and fighters(targets they have good damage against).I would think if bombers are more useful then you will have to see more fighters.Its not like you will alpha strike a massive ball of lrf at once anyway.Noone wants to buff fighters(except me) and this is one way for carriers to fulfill their role as anti lrf without changing lrf themselves.

Reply #718 from Sins Forums Top

Did you carry the test through to see which one would win in a fight?
 

No, because I can't really fight myself. I'm relatively certain that if no other ships were produced, the disciples would win, however, if both races continued at full production speed, I think the TEC would eventually come out ontop because the losses on the Advent side would start becoming too much too fast to keep up with. With the planets and economies I built, I was producing 7-8 Kodiaks at a time and around 10 disciples at a time.

Reply #719 from Sins Forums Top

Just in case you have not seen:

 

Quoting Blair, reply 32

We actually have a fairly large patch for both original Sins and Entrenchment coming soon. Keep in mind the game is almost two years old and most games aren't patched past the first month after release if at all

Reply #720 from Sins Forums Top

Good game companies like blizzard are supporting their games for years - and every game they release become bestseller. Bad game companies like EA are releasing unfinished games and are canceling all support after few patches fixing the most critical stuff only - and EA had huge financial problems this year... Keeping game support for years is better option for both players and game companies. Of course it cost $$$, but happy players will reward company by buying sequels/addons/new games.

Reply #721 from Sins Forums Top

Where is that post, Carbon?  I can't find it anywhere.  It is good news.

Reply #722 from Sins Forums Top

It is under the technical section under JJ's illum bug thread.  I must say that Ironclad has supported their game a lot longer than most out there do.  They mention that they are changing scouts in that thread too which I say is great news depending on the direction they take with it. 

 

[_]-Greyfox

Reply #723 from Sins Forums Top

 They mention that they are changing scouts in that thread too which I say is great news depending on the direction they take with it.

Hopefully this thread will help point the Devs in the right direction, and since they took a long hard look at the last one, Im feeling pretty confident they'll get it right.

Reply #724 from Sins Forums Top

Anyone know the date of that patch?  Can't wait till an advent ship can be seen in one of my games again...:p  might even play em again for a while...

-Exile

Reply #725 from Sins Forums Top

Darvin estimated it at 5 weeks a few days ago based on the previous turn-around between announcement and release of the patch, so probably some time near the end of February...