Deceiver_0 Deceiver_0

NEW Patch Stat Changes Forums [NEW TOPIC: CAPITAL SHIPS!! 1/2/10]

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NEW Patch Stat Changes Forums [NEW TOPIC: CAPITAL SHIPS!! 1/2/10]

For Sins Version 1.19 and Entrenchment 1.05

from Sins Forums

Hey everyone its that time again, lets compile some data!

This is a post that I will update regularly to give the DEVS a better idea of what people think should be done to stats in the next patch. This is ONLY for patches, no new ships or elaborate concepts for the next expansion. This is for dealing with peoples’ concerns about balance. If there’s a balance idea you have that’s not on here, post it and I’ll put it up for voting if it seems valid. I love the fact that ICO pays attention to the forums and what people suggest, I’d like to make it easier for them. The idea is to have all ideas posted straight forward and ranked so the DEVS don’t have to sift through pages and pages to find popular ideas. SP and MP players are both welcome to comment. Post yay or nay for any idea you like or dislike (be specific please) or say no fix needed. If you’d like I’ll also insert specific values you may come up with. Some votes will be taken from other threads.

BUGS

Since the last patches release, the main complaint I've seen on the forums are in the form of bugs, so I'm compiling a list of the known ones, and will update the list as more are discovered. Some of the early bugs were fixed in the hotfix, and perhaps (fingers crossed) the Devs will release another hotfix to address the rest, rather than a whole new patch. So here it goes:

- Nano Weapons Jammer autocast AI casts continuously

- AM Recharger autocast AI casts continuously

- Illuminator causes mystery damage between shots

- Phasic Trap research Level 2 still has no effect.

- Orkulus Phase Stabilizer does not work on stars.

- Random Map Bugs:

              - Single Phase lane starts

              - No connected Asteroids

              - Overlapping Gravity Wells

- Backwards Dunov Icon

- Pathing Improvements (specifically dealing with stationary obstacles)

- Orkulus commands cancelled when trade ships dock

- No wave cannon sounds on Kortul

- Resource extractors on HWs produce income before they're constructed.

- PAWELOS BUG HUNTING

- Siege Militia/pirates run from turrets before construction is complete (exploit).

 

CAPITAL SHIPS

This will be a large section that will continue to evolve through out the life of this thread so check back often for new topics. Consensus seems to think now that carrier caps have all been buffed, many of the other caps need to be brought up to par with them.

Buff Battleship Class(Kol/Radiance/Kortul)

                          Increase hp/shields/armor?-

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%)  Darvin3                Deceiver_0
                                                      CallenExile               MindsEye                 Swordsalmon
                                                      Hrabandur                CrazyElectron           Ryat
                                                      Arthanis                   Warlord Mike           Onigiri

                                     Nay-

                          Increase DPS?-

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%)  Darvin3                Deceiver_0
                                                      MindsEye                 Swordsalmon           CallenExile
                                                      Hrabandur               CrazyElectron           Ryat
                                                       Arthanis                 Warlord Mike

                                     Nay-           Onigiri

                          Buff Gauss Rail Gun?-

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz(800/1200/1600)  Darvin3       Deceiver_0
                                                      CallenExile              MindsEye                  Swordsalmon
                                                      CrazyElectron           Ryat                        Arthanis
                                                      Warlord Mike

                                     Nay-            Hrabandur              Onigiri

                          Re-work Animosity?

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz           Darvin3                   Deceiver_0
                                                      MindsEye                Swordsalmon            Ryat
                                                      Arthanis                 Warlord Mike

                                     Nay-           CallenExile              Hrabandur               Onigiri

         No Change needed-                    CoBBQ

Colonizer Caps(Akkan/Progenitor/Jarrasul)

                        Buff Jarrasul Evacuator's colonize?

                                    Yay-            Darvin3               Volt_Cruelerz              Deceiver_0
                                                      Swordsalmon       Agent of Kharma           Hrabandur
                                                      Ryat                   Arthanis                     Warlord Mike
                                                      Onigiri 

                                    Nay-            CallenExile           MindsEye

        No Change needed-

Carrier Class Caps(Sova/Halcyon/Skirantra)

                       Buff Scramble Bombers?

                                  Yay-              Darvin3              Volt_Cruelerz               Deceiver_0
                                                      MindsEye            Swordsalmon               Agent of Kharma
                                                      Hrabandur          Ryat                           Arthanis
                                                      Warlord Mike 

                                  Nay-              CallenExile         Onigiri

                      Buff Replicate Forces?

                                  Yay-               Arthanis            Warlord Mike                 Onigiri

                                  Nay-

        No Change needed-

Buff Support Class Caps(Dunov/Antorak/Rapture/Revelation)

                      Increase AM regen?

                                 Yay-               Darvin3               Hrabandur               CrazyElectron
                                                      Ryat                   Juletron                  Arthanis
                                                      Warlord Mike        Swordsalmon

                                 Nay-               CallenExile           Mindseye                 Onigiri

                     Increase maximum AM?

                                 Yay-               CallenExile          Darvin3                    Hrabandur
                                                      Mindseye            Volt_Cruelerz             CrazyElectron
                                                      Juletron              Arthanis                   Warlord Mike

                                 Nay-               Ryat                  Swordsalmon            Onigiri

                     Increase Dunov EMP range?

                                 Yay-               CallenExile          Mindseye                  Volt_Cruelerz
                                                      CrazyElectron      Ryat                        Juletron
                                                      Arthanis             Warlord Mike             Swordsalmon

                                 Nay-               Hrabandur          Onigiri

                     Allow Dunov shield restore to be self targetable?

                                Yay-                Mindseye           CrazyElectron             Juletron
                                                      Arthanis            Deceiver_0

                                Nay-                Ryat                 Volt_Cruelerz            Warlord Mike
                                                      Swordsalmon      Onigiri

                     Allow Antoraks subversion to effect SC?

                               Yay-                 Mindseye           Juletron                    Volt_Cruelerz
                                                      Arthanis            Warlord Mike             Onigiri

                               Nay-                 Ryat                Swordsalmon

                     Buff Phase out hull?

                               Yay-                 Mindseye            Juletron                   Volt_Cruelerz
                                                      Arthanis             Warlord Mike            Swordsalmon
                                                       

                               Nay-                 Ryat                 Onigiri

         No Change Needed-

 

 

DELIVERANCE ENGINE

Without a doubt the weakest of the superweapons, there is little point in seeking it. For too long its been sitting in a dusty box on the shelf, to weak to be worth its tremendous costs. Lets consider some buffs to at least make it functional as a weapon. The one buff thats been suggested that I like is an instant allegiance drop, which will aid Advent in cultural takeovers of border planets and with enough, could possibly overthrow an enemy planet (though Id say it should require many more than the fearsome novalith)

Buff Deliverance engine-

                         Cause an instant decrease in allegiance?

                                    Yay-           Deceiver_0                Kitkun                    Greyfox2
                                                     anteachtaire              Mow Mow                Warlord Mike
                                                     Hrabandur                 Arthanis

                                    Nay-           Howdidudothat

No buff needed-                                Qu4r                        Darvin3                  CallenExile        

 

 

EMPIRE TREE

As I feel that the devs decision to put "Phase Jumping" ships at the top of the tree was purposeful and not a bug, I think most of us agree that the constant movement it creates (especially with phase monitoring!) makes the empire tree difficult to use. Move it to the bottom?

Adjust Empire Tree-

                         Move "Phase Jumping Ships" to the bottom of the tree?

                                    Yay-           Deceiver_0               Darvin3                  SwordSalmon
                                                     JSW_Ballz                Mindseye                Agent of Kharma
                                                     Ryat                        52500                    Mow Mow
                                                     Fuzzy Logic              EadTaes                 Warlord Mike
                                                     Hrabandur               Howdidudothat        -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Chaotic Magician        Arthanis

                                    Nay-           CallenExile

 

FIGHTERS

Some are unsatisfied with fighters with regards to surviving flak. I urge everyone to read the points of debate between Mindseye and myself starting on page 10-11, to get a better understanding of why fighters should or should not be adjusted. Below are a few suggestions

Buff Fighters-

                        Increase armor/hp?

                                  Yay-             Mindseye                 Mow Mow                Greyfox2
                                                     Qu4r                       Arthanis          

                                  Nay-             Deceiver_0               Darvin3                  Ryat
                                                     Top Vasari               Warlord Mike           EadTaes
                                                     Hrabandur                Howdidudothat        -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Chaotic Magician       Agent of Kharma      CallenExile
                                                     CrazyElectron 

MAPS

Raging Amish has proposed some modest changes to maps that I think we could possibly have implemented with enough support, so lets get a vote to see what people think of them. Magnetic clouds are huge wastes of space as their is nothing terribly beneficial about them. People with ability heavy fleets and caps would opt to fight you somewhere else (and can do so without much penalty). They make awful chokepoints because you can't put starbases or mines there, and they offer no economic value. I'd like to hear some ideas on how to improve them (beyond removing them completely from the game as RA has suggested). If we can come up with some good ones I'll put them up for a vote. In the meantime, I think one should at least be able to construct Starbases here, so I'll put that up as a topic. Also, all too often we see Ice and Volcanic planets  (which require research to colonize) offering you only 2 resource mines for the trouble of colonizing them. Personally I don't think that PLANETS should have less resources to offer than an asteroid. What do you think?

Magnetic Clouds-

                          Allow starbase deployment?

                                    Yay-            Deceiver_0              Darvin3                  Hrabandur
                                                      Juletron                  Howdidudothat         Warlord Mike
                                                      DirtySanchezz          Kitkun                    Qu4r
                                                      CrazyElectron

                                    Nay-            Ryat                       CallenExile              EadTaes
                                                      DesConnor              -Ue_Carbon             Chaotic Magician

Ice/Volcanic planets-

                          Change minimum mines to 3 (currently 2)?

                                   Yay-             Deceiver_0              Swordsalmon           Ryat
                                                      Darvin3                   Juletron                  Mindseye
                                                      Mow Mow                 EadTaes                 JSW_Ballz
                                                      Howdidudothat         Warlord Mike          Kitkun
                                                      Ovi_187                  -Ue_Carbon            Chaotic Magician
                                                      CrazyElectron 

                                   Nay-             CallenExile              DesConnor              DirtySanchezz
                                                      Hrabandur               Agent of Kharma      Qu4r

No Changes needed-

 

 

 

ORKULUS STARBASE

This topic is going to be heavy on the debate, and will likely be updated several times with NEW votable options throughout the life of this thread. Now, I think it's safe to say that we're beyond the point of the DEVS making a Vasari Assault cruiser and making the Orky stationary. So if thats what you think should happen thats fine, but it would be more useful for everyone if you hada second opinion on the Orky and voted on the issues below.

Nerf Orkulus-

                           Increase build penalty in hostile wells? (currently 2.25x unupgraded)

                                     Yay-          Greyfox2                   Raging Amish(3x)   Mindseye
                                                     Arthanis 

                                     Nay-          Deceiver_0                 Cykur                    Howdidudothat
                                                     Top Vasari                  Swordsalmon         Ryat
                                                     anteachtaire               LordMechanoid       JSW_Ballz
                                                     Warlord Mike              Agent of Kharma    DesConnor
                                                     DirtySanchezz             Kitkun                   Qu4r
                                                     52500                        Hrabandur            -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Chaotic Magician         Qu4r                    CallenExile
                                                    

Other-

                           SB constructors trigger phase monitoring alarm? ("Hostile forces are inbound")

                                    Yay-          Mindseye                    Deceiver_0            Howdidudothat
                                                    Top Vasari                   Cykur                   LordMechanoid
                                                    Warlord Mike               DirtySanchezz        Kitkun
                                                    52500                         Hrabandur            -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Chaotic Magician           CallenExile           CrazyElectron
                                                    Arthanis 

                                    Nay-          JSW_Ballz                   DesConnor           Qu4r

 

 

SCOUT FRIGATES

A hotly debated topic right now on the forums, none can deny their increased presence on the MP battlefield. As the cheapest buildable unit in the game, as well as being tier 0, its utility against long ranged frigates has been thoroughly exploited. The question remains, is it balanced? This topic will be split into two sections, a general section for a blanket nerf and a more specific section for interspecies balance. The reason for this is that some think scouts need to be weaker in general, whike other think they need to be balanced on par wtih TEC scouts.

Nerf Scouts-

                          Decrease hp/shields?

                                     Yay-

                                     Nay-          DirtySanchezz            Cykur                Arthanis

                          Decrease DPS?

                                     Yay-          DirtySanchezz            Greyfox2           Mindseye
                                                     Arthanis 

                                     Nay-          Cykur

                          Increase Cost/supply?

                                     Yay-         Mindseye                   Cykur                 Swordsalmon

                                     Nay-         DirtySanchezz             Arthanis

No Nerf Needed-                              Deceiver_0                 Wingflier            Howdidudothat
                                                     Darvin3                      Ryat                 CallenExile
                                                     Chaotic Magician        Agent of Kharma  Sivcorp
                                                     52500                       JSW_Ballz           LordMechanoid
                                                     Kitkun                       Hrabandur          -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Qu4r                        CrazyElectron

Balance Scouts-

                          Decrease Seeker Vessels Hp/shields/armor?

                                     Yay-         Deceiver_0                 Wingflier             Mow Mow
                                                    Swordsalmon              Darvin3               Ryat
                                                    Greyfox2                    52500                 JSW_Ballz
                                                    Cykur                        Top Vasari           LordMechanoid
                                                    Kitkun                        Hrabandur          -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                          CrazyElectron       Arthanis

                                     Nay-         DirtySanchezz            Howdidudothat      CallenExile
                                                   

                          Decrease Seeker Vessels DPS?

                                     Yay-         Swordsalmon              DirtySanchezz      Howdidudothat
                                                     Greyfox2                   Hrabandur          Qu4r 

                                     Nay-         Wingflier                    Darvin3               Ryat
                                                     CallenExile                52500                 JSW_Ballz
                                                     Cykur                       LordMechanoid     Kitkun
                                                    -Ue_Carbon                 CrazyElectron       Arthanis

                          Decrease Jikara Navigator cost/supply?

                                     Yay-         Deceiver_0                 Wingflier              Howdidudothat
                                                    CallenExile                 52500                  LordMechanoid
                                                    Hrabandur                  Qu4r 

                                     Nay-         Swordsalmon              DirtySanchezz       Darvin3
                                                    Ryat                          Chaotic Magician   JSW_Ballz
                                                    Cykur                        Greyfox2             Kitkun
                                                    -Ue_Carbon                CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                          Increase Jikara Navigator DPS?

                                     Yay-         Mow Mow                   Swordsalmon         Howdidudothat
                                                    Ryat                         Chaotic Magician     52500
                                                    JSW_Ballz                  Hrabandur            -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                         CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                                     Nay-         Wingflier                   DirtySanchezz        Darvin3
                                                    CallenExile                Cykur                   Greyfox2
                                                    LordMechanoid           Kitkun   

                          Increase Jikara Navigator hp/shields?

                                     Yay-         Mow Mow                  Darvin3                  Ryat
                                                    Chaotic Magician         Sivcorp                   Top Vasari
                                                    Kitkun                      Hrabandur              -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                        CrazyElectron           Arthanis

                                     Nay-         CallenExile               JSW_Ballz               Cykur
                                                    LordMechanoid

No Balance Needed-                         Agent of Kharma      EadTaes                 DesConnor

 

 

RAVASTRA SKIRMISHERS

While the most expensive light frigate in both resources and supply, these ships have the worst DPS per supply. With the recent buff to all light frigs, Cobalts and Disciples are now delivering on the tasks they're meant to, yet skirmishers are still struggling. So what should be done?

Buff Skirmishers-

                            Increase DPS?
                                        
                                      Yay-        Deceiver_0                Darvin3               52500 
                                                    Cykur                       Chaotic Magician   Top Vasari
                                                    Howdidudothat           Wingflier              Swordsalmon
                                                    Juletron                     Ryat                   Sivcorp
                                                    DirtySanchezz             GreyFox2            Raging Amish
                                                    CallenExile                 Mindseye            JSW_Ballz
                                                    Warlord Mike              lbgsloan             Mow Mow
                                                    EadTaes                    DesConnor          Kitkun
                                                    Agent of Kharma        Hrabandur           -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                       CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                                      Nay-        LordMechanoid

                            Decrease Supply cost?

                                      Yay-        Raging Amish           LordMechanoid      Hrabandur
                                                    Qu4r    

                                      Nay-        Deceiver_0                Darvin3               52500
                                                    Cykur                       Chaotic Magician   Top Vasari
                                                    Howdidudothat           Wingflier             Swordsalmon
                                                    Juletron                    Ryat                    CallenExile                
                                                    Mindseye                  JSW_Ballz            Warlord Mike
                                                    lbgsloan                   Mow Mow              Kitkun
                                                    -Ue_Carbon               CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                            Decrease Resource cost?

                                      Yay-        52500                       Warlord Mike

                                      Nay-        Darvin3                     Cykur                Chaotic Magician  
                                                    Top Vasari                 Howdidudothat    Wingflier
                                                    Swordsalmon             Juletron              Ryat
                                                    DirtySanchezz             Raging Amish     CallenExile
                                                    Mindseye                   JSW_Ballz           LordMechanoid
                                                    lbgsloan                    Kitkun                Hrabandur
                                                    -Ue_Carbon               Qu4r                   Arthanis

                            Adjust Reintegration autocast AI to activate earlier?

                                      Yay-        Deceiver_0               Darvin3               52500
                                                    Chaotic Magician       Top Vasari           Howdidudothat          
                                                    Wingflier                  Swordsalmon       Juletron
                                                    Ryat                        Sivcorp               Runesia
                                                    DirtySanchezz           GreyFox2            Raging Amish
                                                    CallenExile               Mindseye            JSW_Ballz
                                                    Warlord Mike            lbgsloan             Mow Mow
                                                    EadTaes                  Kitkun                 Agent of Kharma
                                                    Hrabandur               -Ue_Carbon          Qu4r 
                                                    CrazyElectron            Arthanis

                                      Nay-        LordMechanoid

 

No Change Needed-

 

 

 

1,703,208 views 913 replies
Reply #651 from Sins Forums Top

Agent, both examples are extremely specific situations. Ok, supports are useful (even gamebreaking) in some very specific situatons, but don't forget they cost the same as for example carriers, which are useful in every (or near every) situation (and are gamebeaking as hell...). And even situationaly useful, support caps are still weakest caps in game...

Reply #652 from Sins Forums Top

Not really...  They are far more helpful than that.

Dunov: Kills shields, AM, and repairs shields.

Rapture: Buffs SC, reduces damage dealt by enemy forces, and synergizes with Radiance.

Antorak: A little odd, but can easily get you out of a scrape.  It allows you to quickly retreat and stop dreaded abilities such as RC, SR, and MB.

Now, I traditionally play distant stars, which allows you to upgrade things to level 6.  Obviously, at that point there is absolutely no excuse to not have any of these.  The Dunov gives you unlimited AM, the Rapture captures enemy ships, and the Antorak let's you go anywhere.  Even when I play normal however, these ships are still good.  I rarely get them as my 1,2, or 3, but I will generally get one as my 4th as they do certainly help.

So no, I don't think they are super-UP.  Maybe a bit, but with an ability buff here and there, they'll be just fine.  I'm more concerned about the Kol and Revelation.  The Kol needs a buff badly and I never use a Revelation.  Sure, buff Phase Out Hull, EMP, and idk what to do on the Rapture as it seems pretty good to me, but you don't need anything huge.

Curtains - Customize Windows with additional styles
Reply #653 from Sins Forums Top

A blanket buff to support caps Am stores or regen will do them all some good. Most of their abilities are fine, just some tweaks here and there, they just need to be able to use them with more frequency.

Reply #654 from Sins Forums Top

Can we see the celio up there?I cant believe more people arent voting on shield restore for dunov.It is only suport cap that cant support itself:annoyed:

Reply #655 from Sins Forums Top

Well, the Rapture doesn't do anything for itself directly though it does reduce accuracy.  And then I don't think you would really consider POH's +200 shield self-sustaining...

Though Idk...  The cielo seems fine to me...  What is it?  Something like +40% damage to a target?  Just have 3-5 of these in your fleet and enemy caps go boom.

Reply #656 from Sins Forums Top

Cielos base abilati is emporerment witch give a 10% weapon cool down reduction and a 2.5 sheild restore per second.

the 2nd abilati is targe aquisition that si 40% increase of damage dealt.

The Cielos is fine. I love that ship.

 

 

I would agree with deciver on AM stores of support caps needing to be better but thats about it. I would nerf vertigo by giving it a target cap. That abilaty is hugely powerfull. But Akkan helps you counter it.

Reply #657 from Sins Forums Top

buff battleship - yae to all
buff replicate forces - yae
buff support cap - yae to all
buff deliverance engine - yae
buff fighters - don't recall voting on it, yet i'm down for a nay.  put me down as "no vote".

Reply #658 from Sins Forums Top

ATM Support capships are named "support" for no reason:

I am saying that support caps should become the best at supporting other caps and fleets so that they can live up to their name.I don't think that their role should change.

Deceiver, your story is impressive, but I doubt that this doesnt happen often enough to justify the marauder' s existance.

 

 

Reply #659 from Sins Forums Top

Well, the Rapture doesn't do anything for itself directly though it does reduce accuracy. And then I don't think you would really consider POH's +200 shield self-sustaining...

Though Idk... The cielo seems fine to me... What is it? Something like +40% damage to a target? Just have 3-5 of these in your fleet and enemy caps go boom.

Rapture can use vengeance on itself so it does support itself.Designate target is perfect yes I agree.Im talkin about embolden its base ability.2.5 sheild sucks and it doesnt negate fire from 1 ship even.

Cielos base abilati is emporerment witch give a 10% weapon cool down reduction and a 2.5 shield restore per second.

The 2.5 is not worth much.I would like to see 10 for 30 sec instead of 2.5 for 60.Whatever ship is being fired on by the time celios are out will not survive no 60 sec.

I had a thought about miti for the caps.How advents extra 10% would be to much if it were 90 total.How often do advent get in position to get the full 10%?Also it wouldnt be till late game when celios with designate target and subs with phase missile are out.uped phase missiles are nasty anyway.The only damage buffing sips advent have are their caps.I was just wondering if these support ships would negate this bonus.

Reply #660 from Sins Forums Top

Well, the marauder should never be a first cap.  No one in their right mind would do that, however I generally get either an Antorak or Vulkoras as my fourth capital ship depending on where I am in the game.  Also, either of the above is quickly followed by the other and inserted into my Egg's fleet along with reinforcements.

Honestly, just some improvements to AM ought to help quite a bit.  After all, if they can cast their abilities more, then you won't have to worry about it so much.

Reply #661 from Sins Forums Top

What is wrong with way of buffing support caps I suggest (from suggestions list few pages ago)?

Everyone agree support caps are weakest caps...

Reply #662 from Sins Forums Top

Deceiver, your story is impressive, but I doubt that this doesnt happen often enough to justify the marauder' s existance.

I'm not Deceiver, but I'll chime in here.  It doesn't happen enough on ICO MP - that much is obvious.  But it can absolutely happen in any game not played like ICO MP (SP, long LAN games with friends, etc).

I'm not suggesting the ship doesn't need some love.  I'm just saying it's a decent ship in theory, it just can't be put to use in the fast crowded rush games they like to play on ICO.

Reply #663 from Sins Forums Top

@Arthanis: I would say that the weakest caps in the game would be the Kol and Antorak.  Sure, the Kol has its health and damage, but its not that much.  The Antorak just has no offensive value whatsoever.  But the Rapture for instance is an incredibly powerful ship.  It kills reduces enemy accuracy (helping normal ships and aiding in air superiority), returns damage, and Boosts the power of SC.  Basically, throw this thing in with a Halcyon and some Aerias and you have yourself one monstrous swarm of SC flying towards you.

And once again, Arthanis, people do not want to give SC to support ships in large quantities.  They are supposed to support your fleet via abilities, not SC.  They are not supposed to be offensive.  They are not supposed to be a first cap.  They are not supposed to to have swarms of SC.  They are supposed to help your fleet, which they do.  However, the Dunov and Antorak (especially the Antorak) could use some love.  They aren't worthless, they have their uses, especially the Rapture.

Reply #664 from Sins Forums Top

Deceiver, your story is impressive, but I doubt that this doesnt happen often enough to justify the marauder' s existance.

Yeah, you rarely level a support cap to level 6.  Its difficult to level a single cap to level 6, much less a dual cap start, with later supporting caps!   Too little experience gets spread across too many (more) expensive ships.

I still think we should be able buy level 5 (or even 6).  Add a second stage to the existing tech for level 4, to buy level 5.  The cost is already displayed on the Cap ships!  You just can't activate it.

Here's a link to an old post of mine regarding subsequent Cap Ship costs and leveling costs: Purchasing Cap Ship Levels.

Reply #665 from Sins Forums Top

I am for trying it.  I have no idea if how much it would help, but I would expect that capitals would hit level 6 far more often.  Not only that, but you would already have one ability maxed out.

Reply #666 from Sins Forums Top

You rarely level a support cap to level 6 in MP 4v4s and 5v5s! Thats not the only way to play the game! and Juletron speak for yourself mate, I use marauders whenever I can, and like I said before, theyve saved my ass a bunch of times. Just last night I played a 2v2 in which my ally was Vasari and he got his Marauder to level 5, and would have certainly hit lvl 6 if one of our opponents hadn't mini'd and the other left. Yeah, it doesn't have much in the way of combat value, but where it lacks combat value, it makes up for in Fleet support with distortion field and stabilize phase space, AND its the only reliable counter Vasari have to channeled abilities like MB. So it certainly isn't worthless. Last night my ally used the marauder to harass his Advent opponent into splitting up his fleet. The guy tried to chase him down, but simply couldn't and ended up leaving several planets wide open to attack by his main fleet. Certainly helped us gain the upper hand.

666th post }:)  .

As far as purchasing up to level 5 goes. No, bad idea. Several reasons why: Imagine the ease of Marzabating MB with LOTS of dreadnoughts. Late game, a player could have 5-6 Lvl5 Marzas running around, anyone of which could hit level 6 and deal an enormous amount of damage to your fleet. Imagine how difficult it would be to kill them all and NOT take a MB to the face. Same could be said for ANY cap ship really (just lvl 6 marzas one of the most dangerous, imagine it though with eggs all over the place sucking planets up). Level 6 abilities are unique and (in most cases) quite powerful, they shouldnt be easier to obtain than they already are. I get that in most MP games, late game is somewhat rare, but that doesnt mean it isnt a part of the game. Also, Advents Mass transcendence means their Caps gain XP automatically up to the purchase cap, AND they get more Xp for what they kill. That means that an Advent player with Mass transcendence can build Cap after cap that will automatically get to level 5, and have an easier time leveling up to 6. Level 4 being the purchase cap at least gives an opponent the opportunity to destroy a Cap before it gets its special ability, and forces everyone to do a little work to get it there. Not to mention you can have caps with a maxed out ability who havent seen combat at all (Id feel bad for any SC on the receiving end of a couple of lvl3 flak burts or bitch slaps from caps that had never seen combat before.) Also, would you want it as a second stage to the purhase upgrade in the tech trees? Doesnt seem fair that Vasari and Advent can put their caps 2 levels higher than TEC caps before they can. 1 level difference is somewhat negligible, 2 levels makes a big difference. Mainly though, I think making level 5 purchasable would make level 6 abilities less unique, and entirely too common for their power.

Heres a list of abilities I would not want to see maxed out just from purchases:

Shield Restore(progen and Dunov)
Raze Planet
Detonate AM
Flak Burst
Telekinetic Push
Vengeance
Repair Cloud
Power Surge
Gravity Distortion
Embargo

None of these should be able to be maxed out without putting your cap(s) in harms way.

Here's a list of Lvl 6 Abilities that I would not want to see easier to obtain: 

Missile Barrage
Cleansing Brilliance
Vortex (eggs suck ability cant remember full name ATM)
Provoke Hysteria
Rapid Manufacturing
Stabilize Phase Space 
Volatile Nanites
Flux Field
Resurrection

Reply #667 from Sins Forums Top

Yay to EVERYTHING for the cap ships, EXCEPT NAY to animosity.

Reply #668 from Sins Forums Top

Deceiver, don't forget how expensive buying levels for caps is...

Reply #669 from Sins Forums Top

Disagree, 1200 to 1800 credits only is not that expensive compared to a squad of LRF that can die within seconds in battle.

Reply #670 from Sins Forums Top

Not expensive late game. Consider that TEC get their purchase upgrade towards the end of their civic tree, meaning they already have had access to tradeports and are likely to have a booming economy. It costs less to build and upgrade a Cap ship to level 4 than it does to upgrade a starbase to full health and weapons. And how many fully upgraded starbases do you see? I know I see lots. 1250 creds, 1500 creds, 1750 creds is only expensive early game. Even if you had a super crappy 10 cred/second economy, it would only take about 8 minutes to able to afford the three levels. 20 creds/s (average midgame income rate) is 4 minutes. And when you get into late game when people are making anywhere from 40 to 100+ creds per second, a cap ship level purchase is pocket change.

Reply #671 from Sins Forums Top

I find its not the cost but the time per lvl bought that annoying. 90 seconds/1.5 min. per lvl seems long. Thats almost 5 mins before it gained all its lvl from buying them. Its hard to buy lvl in a pinch or when under pressure, if you have to wait 5 for your cap to be are what I would consiter full strength. B/c at this point in time your buying lvls your enemy has serveral higher lvl caps anyhow.

Reply #672 from Sins Forums Top

It costs less to build and upgrade a Cap ship to level 4 than it does to upgrade a starbase to full health and weapons.

Can't compare the two.  Fully upgraded SB blows away a capship.

Having said that, I'm not for being able to purchase more levels with capships.  It would be a nerf to Advent.  Now, Advent needs nerfing, but they need the correct kind of nerf.  Mass Transcendence/caps is one of the things that makes them unique.  We don't need to nerf what makes races unique, otherwise might as well take away vasari's phase stabilizers.

Reply #673 from Sins Forums Top

I want people to know that level 3 dunov shield restore is only 68 shield points per sec.This is for 1 ship while progen heals 62 for unlimited ships.People should be voting yay for this.

 

How what is your resoning for the nay to animosity????

Reply #674 from Sins Forums Top

I strongly agree that the Novalith "super"weapon needs to be buffed or reworked - never ever build it anymore since I feel the resourcers invested into this mediocre/crappy weapon is wasted and I could get alot more efficiency from putting those resourcers on ships or base-defenses instead.

Reply #675 from Sins Forums Top

I want people to know that level 3 dunov shield restore is only 68 shield points per sec.

Explain?  (I did vote for it, btw....)