I didn't make the image. I said it was funny, and I could care what Bush's grandfather did as it's in the past. Nothing you can do about the past, not that 1 article is going to confirm anything for me. I care a bit more about the present, you know what I mean?

Wow, that photoshopping on that second picture is beyond obvious and awful.

I didn't post it because I thought it was legit, re-read what I had said.

My only problem here steve- is that you seem to have been brainwashed by the insanity that the right-wing has spoonfeed to people. Facts speak for themselves. You keep going back the Ayers thing but honestly that was 40 yrs ago and (in your own words now) "Nothing you can do about the past". Ayers did his time, he is now a respected member of society and a professor in a University that does work for the betterment of the community.

We could go back and forth, tit-for-tat and my only problem will be the same... the blinders are on... if anyone believes that McCain is a 'better' person than Obama they are mistaken. Both are politicians, there are going to be associations and things that the other side are going to drag out, exploit and make it seem 20x worse then it actually is.

As an example... currently McCain (and now even his own wife) are saying that Obama voted against funding for the troops. He did so because the bill did not include any sort of mention of a withdraw plan. The SAME bill went back through (with a withdraw plan this time) and McCain voted against it because of the withdraw plan. Mind you this was the same bill with the same troop funding, doesn't this mean that McCain also voted against troop funding? To go even further on McCains 'stance' on support for the troops and veterans consider the recently released IAVA (Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America) Action Fund's annual 'report card'. In it, this nonprofit non-partisan group of veterans who 'grade' congress members on their votes and the support they give veterans... McCain's Grade, Obama's Grade and Biden's Grade

This is just one example of 'real facts' on 'real issues' speaking louder than anything.

I agree with the above poster, neither of these two is the right man for the job.  It's the same nonsense every election, two canidates campaigning on change. What a bunch of BS. There is nothing substantial in the debates, neither wants to risk losing votes by taking an unpopular stance. The problems we face today are going to require unpopular measures. Both parties have put us well on the path to socialism, and farther from our personal freedoms.  Anyone that points the finger at the other party is blinded by their own bias. 

Wake up, look around at what this country has become. We are drowning in debt and everybody would rather find a scapegoat than figure out a real way to get out of this mess. Our children and grandchildren will pay dearly for this mess. 

Its time people hold their elected officials responsible for what they do in DC. We need to pay attention to what happens there more often than when an election rolls around. Vote smart, make sure you know who and what policies you are voting for and don't let the propaganda on any TV add persuade you.

Bollocks! Total Bollocks!  The public health systems in Canada, the UK, Australia and New Zealand may have some problems, but the level of care and professionalism is a good as anywhere in the World.  In fact, here in Australia, we have people from the US, Japan and other developed countries coming here for medical treatment.  In fact, during my last public hospital stay, the man in the bed next to mine was a US citizen who traveled all the way to Australia for treatment he thought would be provided better here than at home.  Admittedly he paid for it (being a non-Australian citizen) but the fact that he traveled half way around the World  at his own expense to pay for treatment in an Australian public hospital is testament to to how well our level of health care is accepted/perceived by those with an open mind... an open mind being the key phrase here.

Furthermore some of the best advances in medical science have come from these sytems. Australia in particular has contributed significantly towards breakthroughs in cancer treatment and transplant surgery.... and let's not forget South Africa, where the transplant pioneer, Dr Christian Barnard, hailed from. The Australian, UK, Canadian South African and New Zealand public health systems have provided substantially to medical research and offer health care that is second to none... and certainly not to the US. 

Now, let's get back to this....

So Steve, if you have such little faith in your government, why are you even here debating it and giving a biased view on who to vote for... or against?  If your government is that untrustworthy, unreliable and/or corrupt (irrespective of Party), surely it wouldn't matter to you one way or the other.

Tell ya what, Steve, that is a very narrow minded view that is rather ignorant of the modern World.., which the US is just a part but not all of.  And given that the World is increasingly getting smaller with increasing trade and international travel, etc, it most certainly is important what other nations think of your own and its leader... take Iran, for example, North Korea for another.... neither of those countries are too popular with the international community because of their leaders and policies, and as a result their people suffer due to trade restrictions and the like.

I won't be a jerk here, but I'll certainly be blunt.  If the US fell out of favour with its allies and the international community at large, suffering trade embargos and the loss of diplomatic ties with friendly nations, it would go down the shit shute faster than a lead-weighted turd. As it is true no man is an island, the same is true of any country in the modern world... being entirely self sufficient is practically an impossibility, particularly with growing populations and ever shrinking domestic resources.

So Steve, anyone in the US who thinks international opinion regarding the preferred next president is somehow irrelevant to you and your family and friends, please think again... cos if it's McCain and he pisses off enough foreign leaders with his bad temper, arrogance and hair-brained policies cooked up between he and Palin, you'll need to do some belt tightening and be prepared to do some going without.

Agreed, Bebi, that would have to be one of the most childish and petty displays of petty childishness that I have seen in a very, very long time... and coming from 'supposed' adults makes it all the worse/pathetic.

Truly a sad indictment indeed....and if Barack Obama is a terrorist, then I'm the Greek God of Laughter, cos I'm busting a rib giggling over that one, it's so ridiculous.

There is a reason the Repubs stopped mentioning obamas terrorist ties... There are none. Millions have been spent trying to find anything... ANYTHING to use as ammo. They even donated to Obamas campaign under false aliases in an attempt to create ammo.

Anyone raising the issue now is only harming the Republican party.

oh and before calling the kettle black, you might find this interesting.....  http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=rnSXGTFQ0Ak

That was great NT! Funny as hell! People act as though no one in this "government" has ever slept/supported or even funded a terrorist. It's done all the time. At one time the Bush family and Bin Laden were business partners (maybe still are for all we know) and Saddam was a puppet of the CIA for years.

What is racism?  An irrational hatred of someone or group because they do not look like you.  Simple.

And the reason that anyone can be a racist.  I am sure if you trace geneology you will find many KKK members with non-White European ancestors in their blood line.  That is why it is irrational, and why Obama can very well be and has made statements to that effect already.  Is he?  I have no idea.  And dont really care.  But I am not so myopic as to think that just because he is black, he cannot be a racist.  That is just racist thinking in itself.

Sean Hannity IS NOT fox news.  Learn the difference between commentary and news.

No, less than 10. Best if you learn your facts before spouting mis-leading falsehoods.

Actually it was a comparison with the equivalent complacency and indifference to outside opinion, not political extremisim at all...;)

The reality is that if the US choice of President/political direction fucks them....it will also fuck the rest of us outside the US to a similar degree....one way or another.

Think about it....the US pre-occupation with living outside its means is affecting the GLOBAL economy, not just their/your own.

No-one on this planet lives in a vacuum.  If Bush is an arsehole...or if Putin is an arsehole...we ALL suffer from the same piles.....;)

steve, know what you're talking about before posting. you're so blinded by commercials and diatribe, it's ridiculous. the man is not muslim. he isn't a terrorist. he has no more ties to terrorists than mccain does. healthcare in the states is not better then healthcare is in other parts of the world. if you don't care what people in other countries think, you're lost and clueless. obama hasn't flipped on policies like mccacin does. mccain flips from hour to hour at times.

i'm so sick of this bullshit that obama is mulim, a terrorist, and will sell the us out! admit it, people! the man has been vetted more than any person in recent history. palin was vetted for less than 14 days and her ties to an organization that wants alaska to leave the union has been totally ignored. and don't say those ties don't exist! the wman wanted to name the head of that organization to replace her on the wasilla town council when she was elected mayor. she addressed them at one of their conventions. her husband was proud member of the organization. let me see......promoting an organization that wants a state to secede from the union....terrorist?

and what's with this "hussein" crap? can he be blamed for the name his parents gave him? he was raised a christian and was never a muslim. 'sidney' is pretty much a pansy name , isn't it? that was being sarcastic, folks. mccain's name is what it is. it's a fine name just as barack hussein obama is. neither can be blamed for the name given to them by their parents.

and by the way, steve, he didn't launch his presidential campaign at ayres' house. it was launched at the illinois statehouse.

it's too bad bill couldn't run for office again. the pres has a 2 term limit and congress doesn't. that's a shame!

dr guy, the man is not black. he's bi-racial. i thoroughly despise racism. i've argued with kkk members at their rallies. i've pulled the hoods of a few of them off their heads. i feel if they're hiding behind a hood, they can't be too proud of their beliefs. i've argued with black co-workers who feel they should have preferential treatment. i hate the term 'afro-american'. if you were born in america, you're american, not an 'afro-american'.

There are plenty of them.  I laid them all out before.

Vetted by who?  There are more gaps in Obama's history than there are holes in Swiss cheese.

Once again, he was a muslim.  I'm not saying that's necesarily bad, but lets get the facts out.  His own family even admits he was, and they are baffled about why he hides it.

Really?  Alright!  DG gives SW a high 5 for that one!

I know that.  But others insist upon calling him black (fine) even African-american (acceptable since his father is african).  I will not call anyone a hyphenated american as I dont agree either.  But if he wants to be called black, that is his choice.

I dont recall the title (google is your friend - The Covenant), but Michener wrote a book on South Africa (I love Michener).  And there he explained that in SA, American blacks are not black.  But under the apartheid system, they were actually considered colored.  And the blacks of SA could never understand why they insisted on being called black.

As if being Liberal is a bad thing, it's not.

Obama was 8 years old during the Ayers thing, he's now a frickin University professor, people change ya know. Besides, what about McCain joining the anti-communist group that was a front for a U.S. Nazi group? Is he a Nazi? Was he a Nazi? does it matter now? No, it doesn't and this stupid Ayers thing also doesn't matter now.

Not patriotic? Is this about the stupid flag lapel? A pin does not a patroit make, it's the desire to improve the country.

Steve, there is a HUGE definitition between a successful POLITICIAN and a liar.  It's part of the job to COMPROMISE.  If you are smart enough to read the ENTIRE bill as voted on, you'd have a better idea of who is telling the truth and doing right by the citizens of this great land, and who is not.

As far as everything else you've said, it doesn't even pass the smell test.  I've met three Presidents at their request in my life and my "association" with them neither means I support nor shun them. Nor do I expect I rubbed any nobility on them, hehe.  No POLITICIAN can avoid meeting unsavory characters because those people are drawn to wealth and power, just like politicians are.  And many of them no one knew were crooks when you met them.  And some have committed crimes and found redemption, etc. etc. Life is long and complicated that way.

If, for example, you can't see the difference with where America was after 8 years of Clinton (a hard-working, 20 hours a day/7 days a week, intelligent, educated man who got the deficit under control and brought us economic surpluses - like Obama) vs. 8 years of Bush (an 8 hour a day, including naps, 5 days a week if we're "lucky", bottom of the barrel, ignoramus who has financially and ethically bankrupted the greatest nation on Earth - like McCain) then do the world a favor and please vote exactly the opposite of what your dead-wrong gut tells you for the rest of your life. 

McCain's people, Bushie-boy, already sold us to the highest bidder...or don't you have any idea who owns us now?

The right-wing smear group that ranks "most liberal" does the same thing every four years.  They re-define liberal as the voting record of whichever candidate wins the Democratic nomination.  And then they tag him with that meaningless label.  And for some reason, the right-wingers act like it actually means something.  Look it up.  You'll see it just a label created every four years.

As for me, I've seen what the conservatives have done to this great nation.  I've had enough.  And judging by the polls, so have the majority of the American people.  The GOP got their $6 trillion in graft under Bushco.  Now we're all stuck paying the bill. 

IMHO, they're damn lucky they aren't facing treason.

Another case of if enough mud is thrown... thing is, in Obama's case, the mud's only sticking in the minds of those who want it to be true. Several have tried to prove Obama is linked to 'active' terrorists (Ayers doesn't count) but like McCain's "Jello", none of them could nail it to the wall.

And just because Hamas declared it would prefer Obama as the next US President, it does not mean he has ties with it, rather that Hamas does not like/trust McCain.  Several groups and governments have stated their preference for Barack Obama, not because he or they are terrorist, but simply because he has presented himself and his policies better than McCain has.

So ID, ANYONE, answer me this: If Barck Obama is tied to terrorists, domestic or otherwise, why then is he not an inmate of Guantanamo?  The truth is, if it could be proven that Obama has terrorist ties, he would have been arrested under the Patriot Act by Homeland Security (or another security agency) and no doubt jailed.  The fact that Obama is a free man puts paid to the wild and baseless theories/accusations that he is, or is tied to terrorists.

Furthermore, if wild and baseless 'terrorist' accusations can be leveled at Obama, then those who wish to see him undone will come up with something quite sinister for those (missing) parts of his private life he wishes not to be for public consumption. And what does it matter if Obama does not want to discuss his formerly being a Muslim... he is a Christian now and it's no longer relevant to who/what he is today.

It's funny, isn't it, the things people on the outside looking in can see, things that people on the inside do not/can not/refuse to see until it is too late.  With this election I am seeing many distasteful and disturbing things: bigotry; arrogance; bias; fear mongering; muck raking; lies; deceit; baseless accusations; racism; anti-social behaviour; unpatriotic and extremist views.  One expects this from politicians (worldwide), it's almost obligatory for them to behave like proper pratts, but it's frightening when average people (male and female) start turning on their friends, family and even total strangers in the name of politics/Party preferences.

I mean, what's that all about?? I've lived in 2 countries at election time and been a visitor in 3 others, yet I never saw these extreme behaviours among the voting public in any of them. I know there are many, many decent human beings in the US who are respectful and practice humility, but according to what I am seeing/hearing/reading since this election went into full swing. there are some who should feel downright embarrassed for behaving much like politicians, most of whom they profess to dislike.

Oh goodness.  There are thousands, if not more, people tied to terrorist.  I don't think you understand who sits in Club Gitmo, and who does not.  Once again, nobody seems to be able to refute his ties to these people. 

For what charges?  The economy isn't in the tank because of Bush or his policies, that is the biggest lie in this campaign.

Oh for goodness' sake, ID.  You have got to be kidding us.  Trillions in deficit, an on-going war and war debt, unregulated greed in the marketplace and financial system...hoorey for conservative hands off the free market theory...,only an idiot would argue Bush and his ilk are not responsible for this nightmare.  I hold Dems accountable as well, mind you...they went along with his lunacy.  But its still lunacy, none-the-less.

Be well. 

This is how ridiculous the whole associating with terrorists thing is......

Does anyone know the exact history of everybody they come in contact with on a daily basis (assuming you got out of mom's basement)?

I would guess you associated with a couple of theives, lots o' liars, maybe a murderer, maybe a terrorist. This could come back to haunt you.  By association, you are a lying theiving murdering terrorist. It is not a far stretch from the association you are trying to catch Obama in.

The one thing we all agree is that things need reworking. We need the right people for the right job. We need financial and health experts to have some input. Not Mavericks and Pageant contestants. I wonder what Ross Perot is up to these days.

Attacks only show how ignorant you are of the facts. The candidates platforms are all you should be concerned about because nothing else matters.

Repubs are in a panic state right now. The more crap they spew, the further Mccain falls. Start talking real issues and you might feel better about yourselves. McCain could have had this election won by now if he listened to his advisors but he's a Maverick that is going to do things his own way. If he just thought with his head instead of his prick he wouldn't be a downwrad spiraling mess right now. He is a good man and I beleieve he at one time could have made a good leader but he is too entrenched now to have any effect.

Has anyone seen Palin's SAT scores yet? Oh my.......this thing just gets funnier. Matt Damon was right. It's all just a bad DIsney Movie.

Not a fan of Liberals either. I just think Repubs are sheepier than Dems.

And once again, because of his 'Demorcat' high profile, IF Barack Obama had solid ties to terrorism, the Repubs wouldn't hesitate for a moment to sling his arse in jail.  I may not know/understand who or who sits does not sit in Club Gitmo, but one thing I am certain of, is that if McCain, Palin or any other Repub had solid evidence, Barack Obama would be sitting out the Presidential race in detention.

Is that ample demonstration? Oh, and it would not be fair to say that the US Gov't/agencies can not get the proof... not when it/they can successfully gather detailed intelligence on Russia, Iran, Nth Korea, etc, etc.  If the evidence existed, they would get it.  Simply put, the evidence does not exist and the entire thing is no more than Repub/McCain?Palin fearmongering, because they are clueless and have nothing else to offer the American people.

So Bush didn't inherit a huge surplus upon assuming office (don't know the exact figure offhand) and turn it into a massive deficit during his 8 year tenure???  I will concede, however, you do have it partly right... Bush is not entirely responsible.  Greed is the greatest contributor to this economic crisis.  Yes, GREED... the greed of Banks, big business and corporate high rollers, the self-serving bastards who award themselves billions in undeserved bonuses and golden parachute payouts from customers hard earned money.  I read recently where you said that much of the blame can be attributed to the average joes who took out bigger mortgages/loans than they could afford to repay, but that is so very, very wrong.  The average joes can't afford to repay anymore because the high rollers skimmed too much off the top and jacked up interest rates to keep business afloat, thus placing mortgagees in an untenable situation which saw repayments dry up and banks/lenders financial wheels grind to a halt

And what really stinks is how government is expected to inject billions to bail them out while the billions they skimmed off the top remains in their pockets.  So it's the average joes fault how?  Oh yeah, that's right they took out unaffordable mortgages. Bollocks!!!  The same shit is happening here in OZ... unscrupulous banks/lenders/agents all out to turn a profit at any cost. 

I have a friend who applied for a $179,000 loan to buy a 3 bedroom home he and his wife could easily afford with their large deposit and joint incomes, but they were duped into buying a more expensive 4 bedroom home with the promise of "we'll pay the taxes, stamp duty and first the years insurance and water rates to help you get started".  It all began well enough, but what they weren't told is that those 'freebies' were added but well concealed in the total price, and as interest rates went up and up and up on the larger principle loan, so the bank's equity in the home increased while they found it harder and harder to pay.  Despite having 2 good incomes, the higher interest rates on the larger principle loan and legal costs eventually broke them... they are now back to renting after the bank foreclosed and losing $224,000 of their own money.

Their only fault was believing in the real estate agent, the conveyancing lawyer and the bank... and sadly, there are too many more cases similar to or just like it, too many more victims of corporate greed.