Neocon means traitor to liberals. Conservatives call them grownups. I love how liberals scream that neocons don’t know what they are talking about. Neocons are mean, heartless, cruel people that don’t care about people. Neocons want to kill everyone. I hear this all the time on my other blogs and I see a bit here on JU as well.

Very true! I doubt one in 10 know what it means as they use it too frequently, and as an invective. I think they coined the term in retaliation for the stigma of being called a liberal.

Paladin: I don't think you understand what the term actually means. A neocon isn't a traitor to the liberal cause, they're a member of a specific offshoot of conservative philosophy which borrows heavily from classical liberalism but retains the moral dimension of the past.

George Bush isn't a neo-conservative because he used to be a liberal. He's a neoconservative because he preaches moral conservatism and an extremely radical liberal economic philosophy.

That's all there is to it. It's really not that hard.

As for its use as an invective it's no different to calling someone a socialist, communist, liberal or conservative. It's a label, sure, but labels only hold the power you give them.

but the "neo-cons" are not the ones who constantly bash their own country and President during a time of war.

no, they only bash the majority of the country who doesn't support this war or the direction of the country. and the neocons bashed clinton plenty when he was engaged in bosnia et al...

i said bosnia et al (means "among other things" or "and everything else") and since there is still bashing going on, i stand by it.

Fair enough, but when has a conservative gone to a country say like.......Venezuela, Cuba, Syria, and basically bashed their country when Clinton was in office?

well, considering that conservative philosophy has been traditionally more isolationist than anything, explain to me why one would go to a foreign place to make that case?

liberals on the other hand are more about "good relations with other nations" than the traditional conservatives. and criticizing a policy is not "bashing" necessarily. i'm sure we would disagree on what constitutes bashing and whatnot anyway, so i'll leave it at that. i wrote an article relating to this topic today, maybe you should read that instead...WWW Link

it is only the neoconservative movement that embraces involvement of most kinds that traditional conservatives reject. and even in that, they do it in a "america-uberalles" context.

conservatives do their "bashing" primarily on safe, us shores, in front of safe, gung-ho audiences. the religious conservatives do it in the churches and in their publications / broadcasts. etc, etc,,,

how many conservatives go to foreign lands to put down their host country?

in this "falt world" it really doesn't matter where the message comes from, or who the "live" audience (if any) is, does it?

is your premise that no american should ever criticize our nation? that's ridiculous and unamerican.

everyone bashes, that's the point...i guess you are not tired of it yet.

I don't even consider it an insult. Tagging the prefix 'neo' onto conservative isn't any different than tagging it onto 'darwinism' or 'expressionism'. The only reason it is taken as an insult is because a lot of conservatives want to associate themselves with the icons of conservatism, and it makes them mad when they are distanced from such.

So it's really backwards from the gist of this blog. "Neo-con" isn't saying you're a traitor from liberalism, it's saying that you're a traitor from conservatism, and not even that really. It's just saying that your conservatism isn't the same as the philosophy your granddaddy sported. Nothing wrong with that.

is your premise that no american should ever criticize our nation? that's ridiculous and unamerican.

I never made that premise.

An American has a right to criticize and complain, but they cross a line when they stand next to a leader of an enemy state and do it.

a person goes outside our borders and makes political statements that support the position of our enemy, that is not covered by freedom of speech it is treason

That is the definition. Tokyo Rose anyone?

so,,,a myth is your definition of treason? trumped up charges and being the victim of government pressure that made people lie under oath is your defintion?

from wikepedia...
The name is associated with Iva Toguri D'Aquino (born Ikuko Toguri, July 4, 1916, Los Angeles, California - died September 26, 2006, Chicago, Illinois). A U.S. citizen by birth who was visiting relatives including a sick aunt in Japan at the time of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, she was unable to leave after the start of hostilities. She was subsequently treated as an enemy alien and refused a war ration card due to her refusal to renounce her American citizenship.[1] To support herself she took work at the Japanese radio show The Zero Hour [2] as a transcriber and later as an on air announcer named "Ann" (for "Announcer") and later "Orphan Ann".[1] Her producer was an Australian Army officer, Major Charles Cousens, who had pre-war broadcast experience and had been captured at the fall of Singapore. Cousens had been coerced to work on radio broadcasts,[1] as had his assistants, U.S. Army Captain Wallace "Ted" Ince and a Philippine Army Lieutenant, Normando Ildefonso "Norman" Reyes.

After she indicated her refusal to broadcast anti-American propaganda, Toguri was assured by both of them that they would not write scripts having her say anything against the United States.[1] After the war, she was investigated and released when the FBI and the U.S. Army's Counter Intelligence Corps found no evidence against her. "Tokyo Rose" was actually a legend generated by allied military personnel for the amalgam of female broadcasters working for the Japanese government.[1] At no time did Toguri call herself "Tokyo Rose" during the war. Further, true to the word of the two prisoners of war that Toguri worked under, no anti allied propaganda was found in her broadcast.[1] However, upon her request to return to the United States to have her unborn child born on American soil,[1] the influential gossip columnist and radio host Walter Winchell lobbied against her. She was brought to the U.S., where she was charged and subsequently convicted of treason. [2] Prior to her being brought back to the U.S. for trial, her baby was born but died shortly after.[1]

In 1949, D'Aquino was convicted of one of eight counts of treason by the U.S. government.[3] She was given a sentence of 10 years and a $10,000 fine. After six years, she was released and moved to Chicago, Illinois, where Chicago Tribune reporter Ron Yates identified her. Yates later went on to discover that Kenkichi Oki and George Mitsushio, who delivered the most damaging testimony, lied under oath.[3] They stated they had been threatened by the FBI and U.S. occupation police and told what to say and what not to say just hours before the trial.[3] On January 19, 1977, she was pardoned by U.S. President Gerald Ford, who also restored her citizenship.[4] She died in a Chicago hospital, of natural causes, on September 26, 2006, at the age of 90. [5][6][2]

cmon...holocaust? low blows, trying to equate 2 irrelevant things as "if you believe 1, you must believe the other" crap and insults don't get you anywhere with me. i don't know how to debate? that might be one of the most amateurish, cheap shots i have ever seen...lmao


she definitely existed? that is hardly "not in doubt"...



and after this poor woman got convicted to a 10 year sentence now ya take the position and only got pardoned because others fessed up to framing her that it might not be her? lmfao!!!

next...

one more time,,,,



and you have shown absolutely nothing in 3 times this statement has been put on here that there is any evidence to the contrary.

stop with this "prove it" crap and the amateur lawyering...i did prove it.

dont like wikepedia as a source? how bout the FBI?

The problem for Aquino, though, was that “Tokyo Rose” was not an actual person, but the fabricated name given by soldiers to a series of American-speaking women who made propaganda broadcasts under different aliases.

WWW Link

son,,,ya better actually learn how to debate before ya go round accusing others...

next...

1st off,,,thanks baker for another source. much appreciated.

2ndly,,,all you and the pundit guy have "proven" and shown is the overzealousness of the right wing to attack and attempt to vilify anyone who doesn't fall in line with them. thank you very much:)