Reply By: dharmagrlPosted: Tuesday, November 29, 2005So would I. Odd that you can stomach innocent people rotting away in there for life when you, yourself would find death preferable.On reading this, I am reminded of the last statement of a female killer in Texas - she said words to the effect of "I'm okay with this, 'cause now I aint gonna hafta wake up in prison no more".I couldn't imagine life in my husband's medium security facility, let alone a lockdown place like death row. I think after years and years of that I'd see death as wonderful alternative.

exactly D, knowing you will spend your entire life in prison is as much a "deterent" as death I think.

"nope am concerned with the "thou shall not kill" thingie, yep ol mod wants to leave planet earth with as CLEAN a concious as I can have."

And yet the same book that handed that commandment down also dictated capital punishment in about the same breath. Moses was wrong after he was right?

Good for your conscience. I'm sure that people victimized in and out of prison by the people you want to linger will rest easy knowing your hands are clean.

Reply By: BakerStreetPosted: Wednesday, November 30, 2005"nope am concerned with the "thou shall not kill" thingie, yep ol mod wants to leave planet earth with as CLEAN a concious as I can have."And yet the same book that handed that commandment down also dictated capital punishment in about the same breath. Moses was wrong after he was right?Good for your conscience. I'm sure that people victimized in and out of prison by the people you want to linger will rest easy knowing your hands are clean.

wow baker, have I done something to piss you off? you are being way harsh.

Let me ask you this, MM...I'm being totally honest.

If we caught Osama bin Laden tomorrow, would you advocate for a life sentence for him knowing that he would have the opportunity of escape as well as the ability to communicate with his followers until his natural death?

Tookie Williams is a leader of a terror network that has been MORE effective than Al Qaeda.

Just something to chew on.

#56 by Gideon MacLeish Wednesday, November 30, 2005

Let me ask you this, MM...I'm being totally honest. If we caught Osama bin Laden tomorrow, would you advocate for a life sentence for him knowing that he would have the opportunity of escape as well as the ability to communicate with his followers until his natural death? Tookie Williams is a leader of a terror network that has been MORE effective than Al Qaeda. Just something to chew on.

chewing now,again I say this is not about tookie, fuck him gid, this is about the taking of INNOCENT lives, it happens you know.

Would I want osoma dead, ok being honest, yes, i would personally put a bullet through his head if I could. I just think till we have a system that can proove someone deserves death I have to fight against the death penality.

I know how can I want to kill someone like osoma and yet be against the death sentence? Cause above all things I am a human being with all the flaws and contradictions.

chewing now,again I say this is not about tookie, fuck him gid, this is about the taking of INNOCENT lives, it happens you know.

The debate started over the execution of TOOKIE, NOT the taking of innocent lives. I explained repeatedly that I am on principle opposed to the death penalty. I also applauded former Illinois Governor Ryan's stay of the death penalty in Illinois.

The facts in the Tookie case, however, are this: we have a terrorist leader in our custody. This terrorist leader was convicted and sentenced to death years ago and been afforded due process.

That's the thing you need to understand; I have never argued against you on principle on this matter. The blog where you responded that keyed off this whole debate centered around the execution of a particular individual. So my response DOES apply.

Well, the implication if you read what you are writing is that you couldn't soil yourself to be like the rest of us, MM. If you have to lily-white, that would mean the rest of us are heartless folk that don't mind executing innocent people. You want to go into the next world with your hands clean, so that must make ours dirty?

I'm not angry with you, but you're halfassing, frankly. You talk about "thou shalt not kill" and ignore the fact that the same book is the root of our concept of capital punishment.

Reply By: Gideon MacLeishPosted: Wednesday, November 30, 2005chewing now,again I say this is not about tookie, fuck him gid, this is about the taking of INNOCENT lives, it happens you know.The debate started over the execution of TOOKIE, NOT the taking of innocent lives. I explained repeatedly that I am on principle opposed to the death penalty. I also applauded former Illinois Governor Ryan's stay of the death penalty in Illinois.

point taken gid.

Reply By: BakerStreetPosted: Wednesday, November 30, 2005Well, the implication if you read what you are writing is that you couldn't soil yourself to be like the rest of us, MM. If you have to lily-white, that would mean the rest of us are heartless folk that don't mind executing innocent people. You want to go into the next world with your hands clean, so that must make ours dirty?I'm not angry with you, but you're halfassing, frankly. You talk about "thou shalt not kill" and ignore the fact that the same book is the root of our concept of capital punishment.

ok point by point. I am against the death sentence, how I feel about it is between me and GOD how you feel about it is also between you and GOD, no right, no wrong just is. Ok?

I am far from being lily white baker or innocent of bad deeds, I have done plenty I am ashamed about.

I accept I am torn {1/2 assed if you must}
Try to remember I have tken a life or two {war] but none the less i think about it all the time and hate that I Did what I had to do.

I accept that the good book says both "eye for an eye" and turn the other cheek they are in direct opposition to each other, I guess at atimes I feel both work for me.

Would I want osoma dead, ok being honest, yes, i would personally put a bullet through his head if I could.

You are not Michael Dukakis!  But you are an honest man.

Reply By: Dr. GuyPosted: Wednesday, November 30, 2005Would I want osoma dead, ok being honest, yes, i would personally put a bullet through his head if I could.You are not Michael Dukakis! But you are an honest man.

thanx doc, the truth Is I would put a .50 cal round through his head

the truth Is I would put a .50 cal round through his head

There wouldn't BE a head once that cal. was done with it. It would be gone.

#64 by dharmagrrrl Wednesday, November 30, 2005

the truth Is I would put a .50 cal round through his head There wouldn't BE a head once that cal. was done with it. It would be gone.

Much as I abhor killing, I could live with this.

I understand where you are coming from, Mod, but I don't know really how you can have it both ways. We want a system where an infallible interest can look at someone and KNOW, and then deem them worth of death. Imagine all the societies that professed that kind of system, and what kind they really were.

The fallibility of our system is our freedom, the fact that our peers judge us, and that ensures that no one person can sit around and kill whoever they like. That isn't something to worry about, that makes the having the option of the death sentence tolerable.

No, the power we have is in our hands, and the only other option is to say no one should have the power at all. To say that leaves people like bin Laden laying around in jail, writing books and giving interviews, too. A fail-safe system is always insecure. If it wouldn't bother you I might write something along those lines, if you wouldn't think it hijacking your theme.

Reply By: BakerStreetPosted: Wednesday, November 30, 2005I understand where you are coming from, Mod, but I don't know really how you can have it both ways. We want a system where an infallible interest can look at someone and KNOW, and then deem them worth of death. Imagine all the societies that professed that kind of system, and what kind they really were. The fallibility of our system is our freedom, the fact that our peers judge us, and that ensures that no one person can sit around and kill whoever they like. That isn't something to worry about, that makes the having the option of the death sentence tolerable.No, the power we have is in our hands, and the only other option is to say no one should have the power at all. To say that leaves people like bin Laden laying around in jail, writing books and giving interviews, too. A fail-safe system is always insecure. If it wouldn't bother you I might write something along those lines, if you wouldn't think it hijacking your theme.

I can have it both ways baker beause I am human and reserve the right to change my mind at the drop of a hat. heh heh.

Write away baker i love reading your articles, it pleases me to no end to know I inspired an article that you wrote.

Oh, haven't written it yet. Didn't want you to think I was trying to spin one off of ya. I might in a few days, though. I expect to be grilled, no slacking.

68 by BakerStreet Thursday, December 01, 2005

Oh, haven't written it yet. Didn't want you to think I was trying to spin one off of ya. I might in a few days, though. I expect to be grilled, no slacking.

baker, I am not one of those bloggers that think because I write something it means NO ONE else can wtite about it, I love to see one article no matter who writes it have many differing points of views. I remember iconoclast jumping all over me because I wrote a similar article, like somehow he owned the subject. lol.

Will be looking forward to yours when ever you get around to it.

Maybe on the cover you can "dedicate' it to me. bahahahahahahahahahaha

I have found the perfect solution to executing killers, we simply give them a lobotomy, there by eliminating any aggression and then they can be released back into society and we will not have to spend hundreds of millions keeping them under lock and key.

lobotomies--unlike some vasectomies--can't be reversed.

Reply By: kingbeePosted: Thursday, December 01, 2005lobotomies--unlike some vasectomies--can't be reversed.

neither can death kingbee. reversed that is.

Reply By: ParaTed2kPosted: Tuesday, November 29, 2005I guess we better end the entire medical profession then, since the infallibility of medical professionals ends far more innocent lives than capital punishment. Even if we took away the medical mistakes, do you realize how many medicines have death as a "side effect"? If capital punishment is "state sponsored murder", then what should we call it when a doctor prescribes a medication (or a paramedic or nurse administers one) that lists "death" as an acceptable risk?"If One Innocent Person is Put to Death, It's too much for me"...

whoa ted, massive stretch, eh worthy of a colongene mind set.

MM slaps ted inna back o head... wake up ted, yer having a nightmare

I think the death penalty is appropriate in some cases.

If I were the "innocent person" on death row, I'd certainly think I was not receiving justice, but I don't think it would cause me to reject the justice system itself. Just because it sometimes makes mistakes, that doesn't make it a bad system.

All systems make mistakes. Systems that gives murderers a free pass, rather than risk executing an innocent like me, seem to me more mistaken than the system we currently have.

I know that the system could easily screw me over. I just don't think that it screws over society in general.

I generally consider people who murder other people little more than animals so I see nothing wrong with treating them as such.

neither can death kingbee. reversed that is.

i sorta figured that out. but that's no reason to opt for another irreversible procedure. might as well cut off both arms and legs.

i'm with ya on this one. unfortunately, for a variety of reasons, too many people get caught up in what becomes for them the 'injustice' system. application of improving dna forensics continues to prove how easily it is for an innocent person to be wrongfully convicted.

I think "Tookie"Williams should spend the rest of his days behind bars. I believe anyone who takes another life with forethought and malice should spend their life behind bars. What I don't believe in is the Death Plenty. I did once. No more. How can taking a life be a just sentence for taking a life. And where does it end? In this society, isn't it JUSTICE enough for the police and detectives to have found the person(s) responsible for killing (yes killing) the one(s) you loved?