Moderateman Moderateman

If one innocent person is put to death!

▼

If one innocent person is put to death!

It's one too many for me.

from JoeUser Forums
With all the kill tookie williams debate going on and state sanctioned MURDER IS OK WITH SOME HERE.

All I have to add is In my heart I KNOW at least one innocent person sat in there cell awaiting death by state murder and DID not do it!

How any of you pro state murder people can live with yourself is wayyyyyyy beyond me!

I hope you all sleep well at night knowing you have sanctioned the murder of an innocent and this and this alone makes you no different than home grown terrorist.
ethics
16,217 views 77 replies
Reply #26 from JoeUser Forums Top
Mod,

Tookie Williams is NOT innocent. Get that? That's pretty much clear.

You have accused me of sanctioning murder when my stance on the death penalty is pretty clear. This is beneath you, and, frankly I expected better. I explained my position QUITE clearly and eloquently, thank you very much.

Yes, the murder of innocents is wrong, but that ethos doesn't apply to the Tookie Williams case, sorry.

Next time, try a rational argument instead of ad hominem attacks. Otherwise we'll think you're becoming a Democrat
Reply #27 from JoeUser Forums Top
BTW,

Terrorist = founder of "gang" responsible for the death of thousands of innocents per year

Terrorist DOES NOT = jury that decides to execute above.
Galactic Civilizations III
Reply #28 from JoeUser Forums Top
I got your back on this one mod. I don't see how we can say murder is wrong, then have the state murder them for us. Especially after people like David Milgaard and Kyle Unger have been sitting in jail for years for crimes they didn't commit, convicted on faulty evidence. Imagine if they got the death penalty.

All I have to add is In my heart I KNOW at least one innocent person sat in there cell awaiting death by state murder and DID not do it!


I read a book a few years ago about a guy named Adams in Texas who was awarded clemency less than 3 days before his execution. He then spent years in jail before being released. The only reason he was convicted was because the real murderer fingered him, and partially because he was an outsider (I think he was from California) and the real murderer was a local Texas boy.
Reply #29 from JoeUser Forums Top
I don't see how we can say murder is wrong, then have the state murder them for us.
Reply #30 from JoeUser Forums Top
28 by Gideon MacLeish
Tuesday, November 29, 2005


Gid my point is that I know that at some point an innocent man was executed.

Ihave no doubt tookie is a killer and deserves life in prison for his crimes.
Reply #31 from JoeUser Forums Top
29 by Gideon MacLeish
Tuesday, November 29, 2005


Terrorist DOES NOT = jury that decides to execute above


I have already apoligized for my over the top comment gid, I extend another one to you too. apoligize for comparing anyone to terrorists.
Reply #32 from JoeUser Forums Top
#30 by latour999
Tuesday, November 29, 2005


got your back on this one mod. I don't see how we can say murder is wrong, then have the state murder them for us. Especially after people like David Milgaard and Kyle Unger have been sitting in jail for years for crimes they didn't commit, convicted on faulty evidence. Imagine if they got the death penalty.

All I have to add is In my heart I KNOW at least one innocent person sat in there cell awaiting death by state murder and DID not do it!


I read a book a few years ago about a guy named Adams in Texas who was awarded clemency less than 3 days before his execution. He then spent years in jail before being released. The only reason he was convicted was because the real murderer fingered him, and partially because he was an outsider (I think he was from California) and the real murderer was a local Texas boy.


and this is why I do not approve of state sanctioned murder.

thank you latour
Reply #33 from JoeUser Forums Top
#31 by Gideon MacLeish
Tuesday, November 29, 2005


You're sooo right, latour. I have seen the light. I think I'll go blog about it rather than pollute mod's blog further with my POV


you never pollute gid, your comments are always well thought out and I support your right to say what you think and feel at ALL TIMES!!!
Reply #34 from JoeUser Forums Top
Gid my point is that I know that at some point an innocent man was executed.


Right, and it is why I stand generally opposed to the death penalty.

There are certain instances, however, when the death penalty, as horrific as it is, is truly the lesser of two evils. I believe that 2500 of our youth dying every year as a result of Williams' actions make it the lesser of two evils in this case (remember, as the media continue to roll out the death count in Iraq, that it has yet to reach the mortality level in nearly FOUR YEARS of action in that country that is reached EVERY YEAR in this nation's inner cities).

I am sitting the fence on whether Williams is reformed or not. I've seen jailhouse religion and I know the sham that it often is. But that doesn't change the fact that Williams' actions went BEYOND his own personal action; he INSPIRED a generation of our youth to destroy themselves and others in imitation of his actions.

When I was incarcerated many many years ago, I actually was close friends with a Crip who had genuinely reformed. I knew many Crips fairly well, and they "had my back" when I lived in Tacoma, Washington's "hilltop" district because the man I knew was still well respected (although he reformed, he refused to roll on his accomplices, and accepted a much harsher sentence graciously for his actions). So I know a little more about the Crips than what is known through popular culture. I've seen firsthand the devastation that has been caused by ideologies such as that which Williams once espoused, and, while I respect Williams' efforts to curb youth violence GREATLY, I still believe that freeing him from responsibility for his actions sends a VERY mixed message.

I believe in an afterlife, and I believe very fervently in redemption. As I paraphrased elsewhere, however (from one of my favorite movies): "That may put you straight with the Lord, but the state of California's a little more hard nosed".
Reply #35 from JoeUser Forums Top
#36 by Gideon MacLeish
Tuesday, November 29, 2005


Gid my point is that I know that at some point an innocent man was executed.


Right, and it is why I stand generally opposed to the death penalty.

There are certain instances, however, when the death penalty, as horrific as it is, is truly the lesser of two evils. I believe that 2500 of our youth dying every year as a result of Williams' actions make it the lesser of two evils in this case (remember, as the media continue to roll out the death count in Iraq, that it has yet to reach the mortality level in nearly FOUR YEARS of action in that country that is reached EVERY YEAR in this nation's inner cities).


here is what I think about this gid, we need prisons that only house killers, triple max security, 23 hour lock downs with no hope of parole. ever.
Reply #36 from JoeUser Forums Top
Yes, but until that time we need to honor the rule of law in our country.

You talk about activist judges, mod, and you're absolutely right. The place to fight the death penalty is in the legislature, not the courts...just as the place to fight for everything else you feel is right. California is among the states that CHOSE to have a death penalty.

What is most appalling about the Tookie Williams case is they're basically applying for a "special exception" to spare him the death penalty. Why is his life more important than the others sitting on death row?

One of the biggest stumbling blocks of conservatives is that they don't want to eliminate the courts as a legislative body, they just want to selectively RESTRICT the courts as a legislative body. And that is actually what you're calling for in this case.

Frankly, I have a proposal for penal reform that I doubt will ever make it past my own writings. And it's not that dissimilar to yours, really. But until and unless we're willing to TOTALLY reform our penal system, then we need to respect the laws already in place.
Reply #37 from JoeUser Forums Top
#38 by Gideon MacLeish
Tuesday, November 29, 2005


Frankly, I have a proposal for penal reform that I doubt will ever make it past my own writings. And it's not that dissimilar to yours, really. But until and unless we're willing to TOTALLY reform our penal system, then we need to respect the laws already in place


gid? I totally respect the law as written , but that does not mean I have to agree with it right?
Reply #38 from JoeUser Forums Top
I generally support the death penalty. I think it's very, very important that we are certain that the person convicted is guilty to that extent that he is charged.

There are some crimes and some criminals so heinous that they cannot be allowed to live amongst us. I also think it's unfair that we have children living without running water or proper nutrition but these people who have savagely victimized their fellow citizens receive accommodations, food, activities, etc. that far surpass that of many innocent Americans.

I don't like to think of tax money going to pay for well-rounded meals and cable TV for people who have raped and murdered children while the innocent go hungry. I think it's a waste of resources.

They can't be released, I think it's wrong to comfortably support them all their natural lives, so the only alternative is the death penalty, which is often less traumatic and less painful than what they've inflicted on their victims.

I respect your opinion, and I definitely follow your line of thought here. I'm not adamantly pro death penalty, but I don't know of any better option.
Reply #39 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: Texas WahinePosted: Tuesday, November 29, 2005I generally support the death penalty. I think it's very, very important that we are certain that the person convicted is guilty to that extent that he is charged.


I refer you to this article as why I am so opposed to death as justice.


http://moderateman.joeuser.com/index.asp?AID=93652
Reply #41 from JoeUser Forums Top
I don't see how we can say murder is wrong, then have the state murder them for us


The victims of the crime were not given the benefit of counsel, of a trial before a jury of their peers, the right to appeal the jury's decision...see where I'm going with this?
Reply #42 from JoeUser Forums Top
I like the death penalty.

I think it should be broadcast live on national television. Not as a deterent, but as evidence of just how our justice system works when death is warranted.

If someone murders, they should pay with their life.

As for killing innocents. I'd submit if an "innocent" spends any significant time in prison they would no longer be so innocent. But realistically, its a chance I am willing to take.

A life for a life.
Reply #43 from JoeUser Forums Top
42 by Dr. Guy
Tuesday, November 29, 2005


Elie! For you.


yep an accidental destruction of evidence, not a chance.

Glad he will spend life forever behind bars and later will pay another debt. to the "big warden in the sky"
Reply #44 from JoeUser Forums Top
43 by dharmagrl
Tuesday, November 29, 2005


don't see how we can say murder is wrong, then have the state murder them for us


The victims of the crime were not given the benefit of counsel, of a trial before a jury of their peers, the right to appeal the jury's decision...see where I'm going with this?


ah D my friend we are just going to have to agree to disagree about this, your stance is firm, so is mine.
Reply #45 from JoeUser Forums Top
#44 by Tova7
Tuesday, November 29, 2005


like the death penalty.

I think it should be broadcast live on national television. Not as a deterent, but as evidence of just how our justice system works when death is warranted.


TOVA!!! I am shocked!! {I want the pay for view rights} hahahahahahahahah
Reply #46 from JoeUser Forums Top

yep an accidental destruction of evidence, not a chance.

Glad he will spend life forever behind bars and later will pay another debt. to the "big warden in the sky"

It is not the way, it is the end result.  One person at a time.

Reply #47 from JoeUser Forums Top
48 by Dr. Guy
Tuesday, November 29, 2005


yep an accidental destruction of evidence, not a chance.

Glad he will spend life forever behind bars and later will pay another debt. to the "big warden in the sky"

It is not the way, it is the end result. One person at a time.


personally I would rather be put to death than spend my entire remaining life behind bars, caged with the dregs of the worl.
Reply #48 from JoeUser Forums Top
"personally I would rather be put to death than spend my entire remaining life behind bars, caged with the dregs of the worl."


So would I. Odd that you can stomach innocent people rotting away in there for life when you, yourself would find death preferable. For every innocent person put to death there have probably been hundreds serve out life sentences.

Given the sentiment of the quote, I don't see how you so easily differentiate the sentence you want from the sentence you seem to hate. It seems more like you are concerned more with society's clean hands than the innocent.
Reply #49 from JoeUser Forums Top
So would I. Odd that you can stomach innocent people rotting away in there for life when you, yourself would find death preferable.


On reading this, I am reminded of the last statement of a female killer in Texas - she said words to the effect of "I'm okay with this, 'cause now I aint gonna hafta wake up in prison no more".

I couldn't imagine life in my husband's medium security facility, let alone a lockdown place like death row. I think after years and years of that I'd see death as wonderful alternative.
Reply #50 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: BakerStreetPosted: Tuesday, November 29, 2005"personally I would rather be put to death than spend my entire remaining life behind bars, caged with the dregs of the worl."So would I. Odd that you can stomach innocent people rotting away in there for life when you, yourself would find death preferable. For every innocent person put to death there have probably been hundreds serve out life sentences.Given the sentiment of the quote, I don't see how you so easily differentiate the sentence you want from the sentence you seem to hate. It seems more like you are concerned more with society's clean hands than the innocent.


nope am concerned with the "thou shall not kill" thingie, yep ol mod wants to leave planet earth with as CLEAN a concious as I can have.