The US must learn from France

or we will find ourselves in the same mess

from JoeUser Forums
For the last 13 days French cities and now other European cities are suffering from riots.

The rioters are mostly from first, second or even third generation emigrants. A large portion of those first generation emigrants and parents of the naturalized second/third generations were illegal emigrants from North African and other Middle Eastern countries. They came for jobs and other economic opportunities, but they where not allowed to assimilate into the French culture. The French people didn't want them living in their communities, the French Government allowed schools to teach in the emigrant's native languages, and even encouraged the emigrants to retain their old cultures.

Now years later, the French overall unemployment rates are hovering around 10%, while some emigrant communities are seeing up to 47% unemployment.

But don't these problems that I have outlined above almost mirror those that the US may face one day? Within the US many States want to teach emigrant students in their native language, encourage them to retain their old cultures and open their subsidized housing projects to them. The only difference is that our unemployment rate is less then half that of France. But how long will that last? Sooner or later the rate will rise and we will have to face the near break down of society that France is facing now.

The US needs to learn from France's mistakes, before we have to learn from our own mistakes.
politics
3,800 views 6 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
I agree there should be better integration and should not espouse separate but equal or not so equal schools and communities. The French, however, tried to do just that and most Muslims did not want it. Do you recall the controversy over denying overt religious apparel and symbols in their schools? And do not the Christian Fundamentalist here throw a monkey wrench into the education process by insisting on incorporating their religious belief?--not to mention the trend of charter and private religious schools as a ploy for segregation.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
We had mass riots and looting in the late 1960's, they are suffering the same now (but IMO much worse). While we learned from our mistakes and intigrated our police force, I'll bet you ten to one the French still don't do that.
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Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
There was a terrific article in Marie Claire (sorry) about the situation facing French Muslim women. It's a truly sad situation. The French have ostracized their Muslim population and have allowed...encouraged, even...a Taliban-like rule to fall on the Muslims there.

Rioting is never the solution, but I don't think the rioting could be considered unexpected or shocking. This is what happens when you dehumanize and refuse to include portions of your population. Jobless, hopeless, and oppressed Muslims are rioting. I'm not surprised.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
The rioters are mostly from first, second or even third generation emigrants. A large portion of those first generation emigrants and parents of the naturalized second/third generations were illegal emigrants from North African and other Middle Eastern countries


two things you've neglected or overlooked. the countries from which they emmigrated are generally former french colonies. as such they were, like all other european colonies, exploited--just a fancy way of saying ripped off--rapaciously and it kept on happening even even as the last colonists left the country with everything the greedy returnees could snag on their way out the door.

second. many of the grandparents and parents of todays rioters were recruited in their native countries and brought to france by manufacturers who wanted a cheap labor pool the rioters have seen how hard their fathers and grandfathers worked for low wages and how quickly they were let go.

there are clear similarities beween the riots in france and the 60s waves of urban uprisings. the most obvious is isolation. most large cities (north and south) had communities or neighborhods where it was illegal to sell a house to anyone who wasn't white. in chicago, blacks could were only allowed to live in specific areas. as the black population grew..and grew, families were forced to share the limited space available there. even tho the highrise projects on the south and west side helped to ease the situation some, it was to little, too late.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
many of the grandparents and parents of todays rioters were recruited in their native countries and brought to france by manufacturers who wanted a cheap labor pool the rioters have seen how hard their fathers and grandfathers worked for low wages and how quickly they were let go.


I agree completely and the US needs to start making it difficult on those companies so willing to import cheap labor (i.e. illegal from Mexico), then later when the economy goes bad, kick them to the curb. One advantage for the US is that IMO NFTA has helped stabilize Mexico to a point that returning to Mexico as even a second generation would not be a death sentence (like what would face many of the African or Middle Eastern emigrants).

there are clear similarities beween the riots in france and the 60s waves of urban uprisings. the most obvious is isolation.


Good point. I have seen locally where the African American communities have been more assimilated into the rest of the City since the early 70's (I don't think that is true for cities like Chicago and Oakland though).

I do notice areas of town that is almost completely Hispanic now. Unfortunately I do notice that these communities generally speak exclusively Spanish, with a few children injecting English from time to time. I am hoping all the attempts at allowing Hispanic children to complete school in the Spanish language gets stopped. The California voter enacted laws to prevent such a thing a few years ago, but recently I heard one town requiring 50% Spanish and 50% English lectures in school by all students. I have not problem with requiring students to take a second language course, but this is going too far.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top

two things you've neglected or overlooked. the countries from which they emmigrated are generally former french colonies. as such they were, like all other european colonies, exploited--just a fancy way of saying ripped off--rapaciously and it kept on happening even even as the last colonists left the country with everything the greedy returnees could snag on their way out the door.

You see that is the victimology coming through.  Notice the tense of your reply.  Notice what is absent.  That is not to say that sins were not committed, but as long as you are going to use PAST sins to justify current lawlessness, the cycle will never end.

THESE people were not victimized.  Yet they continue to play the victim card.  Notice how better off their life is when they do?