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Paul Reiche and Fred Ford issue DMCA take down

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Paul Reiche and Fred Ford issue DMCA take down

from StarControl Forums

We have received news today that Paul Reiche III and Fred Ford, contractors on the classic DOS game, Star Control 2 for Accolade and widely credited as being the "creators" of Star Control II have issued a DMCA take down notices to Valve and GOG to take down Star Control: Origins.

(this is the one sent to GOG)

As some of you may know, there is a legal dispute between Stardock and Reiche and Ford regarding the trademarks and copyrights pertaining to Star Control.  Stardock owns the copyright to Star Control 3 and the trademark to Star Control overall.  Reiche and Ford claim to own the copyright to Star Control 2 (though it's not clear what within it they own outside source code).

You can read the history here:
https://www.stardock.com/games/starcontrol/article/487690/qa-regarding-star-control-and-paul-and-fred

Unfortunately, rather than relying on the legal system to resolve this, they have chosen to bypass it by issuing vague DMCA take-down notices to Steam and GOG (who, btw, Reiche and Ford are suing using GoFundMe money).

Steam and GOG both have a policy of taking down content that receive DMCA notices regardless of the merits of the claims. 

To my knowledge, never in the history of our industry has anyone attempted to use the DMCA system to take down a shipping game before. For example, when PubG sued Fortnite for copyright infringement, they didn't try to take Fortnite down with a DMCA notice.

For those not familiar with copyright law, you CANNOT copyright ideas, individual or short phrases, concepts, mechanics, game designs, etc. 

Star Control: Origins does not contain any copyrighted work of Reiche or Ford. We spent 5 years working on it making it our own game. It very much plays like you would expect a Star Control game. But that has nothing to do with copyright. 

We have assurances from GOG and Valve that already purchased games will continue to work.

Unfortunately, without the income from Star Control: Origins, Stardock will have to lay off some of the men and women who are assigned to the game.

We will do our very best to continue to support the game and hopefully Star Control: Origins will return as soon as possible.

115,118 views 71 replies
Reply #26 from Stardock Forums Top
 
 

Any response, even if it is to say we don't know, would be appreciated.

I have a few games that were removed from the Steam Store, but are still freely usable on my own account. Not sure if that helps.

Reply #27 from StarControl Forums Top

Hey @Frogboy!

Just want to say that I've had Star Control: Origins in my Steam wishlist pretty much since the game launched.  The only reason I hadn't bought it yet is because of my limited free time.  I planned on buying the game as soon as I had the time to play it.

This little controversy made me think you guys needed a little good-will thrown your way, so I'm going to go ahead and buy it directly from you guys.  

Reading the correspondence between you and Paul/Fred was heartbreaking.  You'd done everything you could as a fan and as the leader of a company to do this game right, and to do right by the fans of the originals.  All that good will you sent Paul/Fred was basically thrown back in your face.  

Good luck on Star Control: Origins, and working this mess out.  I'm really looking forward to playing it.  I've heard really good things.

Multiplicity - Control multiple PCs using one keyboard and mouse
Reply #28 from StarControl Forums Top

Valve is currently not selling the game, but keys can still be activated there, and you can download and run it just fine.

Reply #29 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting Nullcoda, reply 25

How will we maintain access to the product given the provision of said product (even when directly purchased from Stardock) rendered a steam claim code and should the worst happen and steam must actually terminate the game, what recourse will the consumers have at that juncture?

Nullcoda .... that cannot happen, as if it were to Consumer Protection Laws would be violated and Steam would be exposed to indefensible litigation....;)

 

This situation is the first use/abuse of the DMCA process which will likely result in the first real example of what happens to people who allegedly make false claims via DMCA.

Reply #30 from StarControl Forums Top

Just out of curiosity as I have to knowledge of U.S. law, how long do this kind of legal issues take to settle on average? weeks, months, years?

Reply #31 from StarControl Forums Top

Quoting Zorkins, reply 30

Just out of curiosity as I have to knowledge of U.S. law, how long do this kind of legal issues take to settle on average? weeks, months, years?

Years.

Reply #32 from StarControl Forums Top

I had planned on buying Paul&Fred's SC game as well but now that I see another underhanded move by them I'll go ahead and skip that. Buying their game would leave a bad taste in my mouth so... season pass here I come

Reply #33 from StarControl Forums Top

Quoting Inibriatus, reply 32

I had planned on buying Paul&Fred's SC game as well but now that I see another underhanded move by them I'll go ahead and skip that. Buying their game would leave a bad taste in my mouth so... season pass here I come

 

Hopefully you aren't just getting your news through Stardock's own forums. At the beginning I would have been happy to buy both games too, but I can't see myself buying Origins at all by this point.

Reply #34 from StarControl Forums Top

Ok, can fans fund stardock a bit so that you do not lay people off or do it once they complete their project so that development does not stop?

Reply #35 from StarControl Forums Top
Fund stardock by buying their games, and getting others to buy their games.
Reply #36 from StarControl Forums Top

Quoting Prof_Hari_Seldon, reply 21

Chill Kavik please.  Don't forget SpaceWar! was a big influence on SC as well.

 

Maybe SFB contributed the idea of unique ships with multiple weapons.

I don't think Stardock wants me discussing this here, but you are completely and totally wrong.  Star Control ***IS*** the integrated Star Fleet Universe.  I was more responsible for "creating" Star Control than Paul & Fred were.  And it was not just Star Control.  The early computer game industry was open season on the Star Fleet Universe and many people made their careers and reputation by stealing our work and reputation.  The liars, plagiarists, and thieves who made Master of Orion, for example, are no different than Paul & Fred.

I am a "living god" of Paul & Fred's universe... I know "their" own universe better than they do.  And I also know a few dozen other people who know their own universe better than they do.  Paul & Fred are liars, plagiarists, and thieves.  They are the biggest scumbags in the history of the game industry, and I am one of the world's leading experts on the history of the game industry... AND I DARE THEM TO SUE ME FOR SAYING SO!!!

SUE ME, YOU WORTHLESS COWARDS... I DARE YOU!!!

 

EDIT: Oh, and Harry... If I were lying they would sue me for slander, right?  Because this is NEVER going to end from this point forward.  For the rest of my life, I will be there to call Paul & Fred liars, plagiarists, and theives publicly, and remind everyone in the game business that they are nothing and nobodies who did nothing other than to spend 30 years attempting to steal the reputation of the most important game and simulation designer of all time.  Everyone will constantly be reminded from this point forward that Paul & Fred are liars, plagiarists, and thieves.  Talentless hacks who spent 30 years attempting to steal the reputation of SVC and the SFU.  Not suing me for slander is admitting their lie...

 

Reply #37 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Oh Gosh.. lemme be a bit ::sarcastic:: for a moment.

When GameSpot bought Impulse from StarDock.. i was definitely pushed to try rationalizing how the entire Gaming Industry had just turned into some cut-throat monster that would spin customers/market (of the day) on its tail for the worst. Later on.. DLC, Pay-Per-Play, Steam hegemony, Online scooping (Twitter + FaceBook didn't really exist back then.. remember?), rapid growth or decay, etc. We all know what Gamespot did with that power -- ruined it and cheeky licked Valve/Steam right back on track to where they steadily aim for -- THE Best Platform. Popular by default.

Now comes that --frankly-- silly DMCA claim by some obscure guys that no longer hold Star-Control (initial intellectual property, if anything) rights.. not fully for sure. StarDock does.

Sooooooo.. to loop another story worth such incredibly magical twists of fate; Firaxis' (Jake Solomon) & Julian Gollop's (goes all the way back to 1994 Microprose) mutually preferred X-Com titles franchise.

Not a single LAW gambit in sight, none ever since either. Every minds are still absolutely focused on their own business with full respect towards each other. Firaxis went on to create & distribute (on Steam too!! :grin: ) two VERY successful X-Com titles & plenty of cool DLC byproducts. Gollop is presently deeply involved into his hybrid runover with "Phoenix Point" as a true Indie Box cycle. Good luck Julian -- Release predicted for June'19.

The money is in the pudding.

Reply #38 from StarControl Forums Top

Quoting Zyxpsilon, reply 37

Sooooooo.. to loop another story worth such incredibly magical twists of fate; Firaxis' (Jake Solomon) & Julian Gollop's (goes all the way back to 1994 Microprose) mutually preferred X-Com titles franchise.

Not a single LAW gambit in sight, none ever since either. Every minds are still absolutely focused on their own business with full respect towards each other. Firaxis went on to create & distribute (on Steam too!! :grin: ) two VERY successful X-Com titles & plenty of cool DLC byproducts. Gollop is presently deeply involved into his hybrid runover with "Phoenix Point" as a true Indie Box cycle. Good luck Julian.

And let's not forget that they're both letting Xenonauts thrive as well, whose developers are getting ready to release a second game in that universe.

I'd like to point out that I own the original X-Com titles, the new XCOM ones, Xenonauts, and I backed both Phoenix Point and Xenonauts 2 on Kickstarter. They all deserve it!

I think Brad had hoped that everyone would get along in this way, each doing their own thing, both being "Star Control-y," and realizing what each does benefits the other. Sadly, was not to be.

Reply #39 from Stardock.net Forums Top

I have a suggestion. The people who might get laid off; why don't you employ them to modernize the source code for GalCiv 2? That way it can compile on modern machines. That way you can do updates to it again. At least, thats the reason I recall hearing of why GalCiv 2 no longer get updates.

Reply #40 from StarControl Forums Top

This is a sad say that many feared was coming. Hope you guys can get it back up on Steam & GoG. All the fans wanted after all these years were new Star Control games and therefore for both of the projects to happen. However it looks like this isn't going to end until one party is completely obliterated and bankrupt resulting in there only being one game out there.. and it'll probably be incomplete (compared to original plans) due to the winner losing so much money as well.

I've just purchased the game and the addon from Stardocks site. I buy nearly all of Stardocks games anyway but I usually wait for physical releases. Can't take that risk with this one. Plus I wanted to show my support for Stardock as while I prefer not to take sides I don't want the game obliterated and people losing their jobs.

In regards to Steam also taking the game away from existing buyers. That shouldn't happen I own several games that were removed by steam after various legal troubles. You can't buy them and they have no store page but they still work. Hell one of them I bought a physical copy from ebay long after the take down and was able to install via steam, activate via steam and even get it's final updates downloaded via steam.

Reply #41 from LittleTinyFrogs Forums Top

Thanks for putting that sale up. I was going to pick the game up anyway, but now I'll probably grab the season pass as well. I used to buy all Stardock games near release, but then I moved my main gaming system to Linux and haven't been buying very many windows only games anymore.

Reply #43 from Stardock.net Forums Top

@Kazriko - a build that Linux native is in the works, if you but the PC version now you'll get both when it's out as that's how steam works :D

Reply #44 from StarControl Forums Top

Oh, I have just found the following. I am not sure that it can be used in legal proceedings but here it is:

 

From the 1998 IRC chat with Toys for Bob (Fwiffo is both Fred Ford and Paul Reiche III here):

<Manta> Fwiffo: Has anyone ever brought up parallels between Babylon 5 and Star Control?
<Fwiffo> Babylon 5 causes a certain amount of stomping around the office screaming.
<Fwiffo> Babylon 5 steals from us. We steal from known space.
<Fwiffo> And Larry in known space steals from others.

 

I found it at the bottom of

http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/Influences_and_references#ref_3

Reply #45 from StarControl Forums Top

Well, it is totally understandable that they think Babylon 5 stole from them.

1) There are many different alien races, a concept that was created in Star Control.

2) The races each have different ships with different weaponry.  A concept never seen before Star Control.

3) The show features a soundtrack with themes for different races, yet again stolen from Star Control.

4) Perhaps the most damning of all, hyperspace is red.  Clearly, a copyright infringement on Star Control.

 

Let's not forget that Toys for Bob invented science fiction.   I'm not aware of any book, movie, TV series, or game that took place in space prior to the launch of Star Control 1.

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Reply #46 from Stardock Forums Top

Ah, sorry, Star Trek had many different alien races with different ships and weapons and was decades before Star Control. And there was science fiction about Mars and aliens in the 1800's called "Two Planets".  Doing a search I find this wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_science_fiction

 

Using different music to help set the mood during times is nothing new. It's been in cinematography and plays for years.

 

Other science fiction games that I remember was VGA Planets, Solar winds, Commander Keen, Trade Wars  are all early 1990's space games that I recall off the top of my head. UFO was mid 90's which we also had wing command, lots of Star trek and Star wars games and hundreds of other PC space games.  Not to mention all the arcade and arcade style space games.

 

Science Fiction existed long before star control, and many other games that where not only science fiction but you traveled in space meeting fighting different aliens existed before or along side of Star Control.

Reply #47 from StarControl Forums Top

I know -  I grew up reading Asimov, Clarke, Heinlein, watching Star Trek, etc...I was being sarcastic about the copyright claims.

 

Reply #48 from StarControl Forums Top

Yeah, hence their claims are a bit strange...

Brad can you inform us of the court developments? (if you can disclose them). Is there still a chance for a settlement/solution?

Reply #49 from StarControl Forums Top

Quoting Lone_Utwig, reply 48

Yeah, hence their claims are a bit strange...

Brad can you inform us of the court developments? (if you can disclose them). Is there still a chance for a settlement/solution?

Nothing new on the court side.  Government shut down probably isn't helping.

We are planning on a releasing a status update this Monday.

 

Reply #50 from StarControl Forums Top

Wow, this is ridiculous. People, wake up.

Fred and Paul were "contractors on the classic DOS game"? Have you seen the game's credits?

Game Program and Technology:    Fred Ford
Game Design and Fiction:    Paul Reiche III

Not to mention that the CD-ROM says "Star Control II Game (c) 1992 Fred Ford and Paul Reiche III". The box for my copy of Star Control II also says "(c)1994 Fred Ford and Paul Reiche III".

So, the programmer and designer who own the copyright aren't the creators? I bet you can't find ONE PERSON who worked on the game that would disagree with the idea that Fred and Paul created it.

How many "contractors" on games are allowed to release the full source code, like Fred and Paul did? How do you think the free game started? They own the rights to it and can do whatever they want with it.

Wardell sent e-mails offering to sell the trademark/SC3 content Stardock bought to Fred and Paul. He asked if they wanted to collaborate on the game. He asked if they would license the original content to Stardock. They elected not to. However, Fred and Paul had no quarrel with Stardock making a game with NEW characters and content. Stardock has every right to make a Star Control game that branches off the original parts of Star Control 3 (but NOT the parts of Star Control 3 that were licensed from Star Control 2).

Stardock initiated the lawsuits. Stardock is NOT the victim here. As the judge rightly pointed out "the harm [Stardock] complains of is indeed its own making. [Stardock] had knowledge of Defendants' copyright claims from the outset."