Response to Art Style

Have you also noticed that ships still have a HEALTH BAR under the guise of pretty rectangles?...

Not only it's just another f.king HP bar, but it's also trying to deceive the player with fake rectangles that mean nothing, but a cute GFX.

All this fist shaking and moaning FOR NOTHING!!

I agree. At the very beginning I was concerned when they teased us that incredible piece of concept art, only to say "This is what we're NOT doing" only to do exactly the opposite of that. To me, this style doesn't even really look "Pixar" (I'd be fine with that, tbh) - it looks unfinished; like placeholder art.

I had the exact same problem with Elemental, tbh, and I'm disappointed to see Stardock turning this into a tradition. In this case, at least, the game might just need some more sophisticated shaders and subtle UI flourish to elevate it from "flat, unfinished, prototype" to sophisticated Pixar-like animation.

^ But it is unfinished... All the revealed art is still WIP. Not detailed and not polished. Though, what Cuore is talking about is the "mood" of the game's art. Facial and body expressions being "non-serious"/cartoony (light-hearted and shallow)/detached from whimsical, but serious SC2 atmosphere. Animation (even though it's a bit to early to judge) being in tune with rather "Tom and Jerry" than "Ren and Stimpy". Too much "Despicable Me" and not enough "Alice in Wonderland". Does it make sense?

I discuss this a bit in Discord but the themes of Origins are dead serious.  The Tywom are comic relief to be sure. But that’s about the extent of it. 

The Xraki and Scryve are no joke.

the sc2 aliens were, in general, not dark or edgy. The origins art style is, in essence, a modern update to the sc2 art style.

The human Commander,looks good.

https://1drv.ms/i/s!AuBwidOf1nOuifUL1pWVdh1xZqhpZw

And the Mukay looks very much as good as the concept art.

The Tywom are less serious but to suggest game with the Pkunk or the Vux was all grim is to rewrite history.

I like the Vux. But it doesn’t make me think grim or dark.

The story is what delivers the grim setting. SCO is dealing g with a situation in which humans are under threat of extinction.pretty serious stuff.  However, it’s also a universe where a lot of bad stuff has happened already and some races are a little callous to it.

The Tywom in game.

@Frogboy - it wasn't meant as an insult about the aliens. It was meant as a probable reason ONLY, to answer your question: "Why are people hating on the art style? What style should we have gone with?" I feel that for, like I said, those 4 SPECIFIC creatures, they look cartoony. Secondly, I didn't say SCO wasn't going to be dark in nature. I merely stated that the SC2 art style MATCHED the grim nature of the game with realistic depictions of the aliens. Not hyper-real, or photo-real. But real enough. The big, wide set eyes and smiling mouths and nonchalant attitude don't necessarily fit the grim future setting of Star Control.

And please remember what I said in the OP - This only affects 4 races. The rest don't look cartoony AT ALL.

But how is the Vux any more real than the Tywom I posted?

As far as I understand, Tywom has similar role to Fwiffo.

And neither Fwiffo, nor any of the other Spathi are any more "serious", style-wise, then Tywom.

So, non-issue, in my opinion...

I just want to add that some people will hate this kind of art style regardless of setting, and there's nothing you can do about that.

I must say i really like the aliens, Tywom fits perfectly IMO, but what i really like about that Tywom screenshot are the 2 SC2 ship models hanging from the ceiling
i feel stuff like that is what'll make it all awesome (for fans especially).

I don't however like the commander style that much and i think i've said so before. it's to me a matter of texture complexity, i find her to be too smooth right now.

I think she needs to not be a giraffe. Also, her head is huge relative to her very small body type. And she has what appears to be a piggy nose. I think it's THOSE things make her appear like Hayes needs to come over and replace her if humanity wants to stand a chance (and I hate saying that, because I'm happy to have a female commander).

She needs to look more like an authoritative figure, IMO.

I definitely like the look of it.  I've always thought of Star Control as being "cartoony", and this really does seem like an updated version of that look too me.  I'm sure it could be done in several different styles that would make me say that, and this is one of them.

I think some people don't think of the original Star Control as intentionally "cartoony" and attribute the look to its EGA graphics.  For those who have always thought of it as being like a cartoon, it works for us.

I've felt the tywom are a rather direct joke species, the unspoken punchline being about overweight socially inept humans. Their surroundings (earthlike soft drink cup, earthlike chips), demeanor, and appearance are all clearly reminiscent of negative stereotypes among specific human groups. Perhaps the problem is that even in their appearance these similarities are very direct. They are even a slug analogue.

Being a species you meet early on, they will be compared to the spathi, Whom are cowardice incarnate. However, the spathi make use of their cowardice as a species as a driving force for their civilization and much of their strife comes from other races taking advantage of their uncontrolled fear of everything.

So to keep this focused I'm saying we should ask things like: how do the fat human stereotypes help to build a compelling character in the tywom, and does being depicted as a race of slugs reminiscent of John Goodman at his worst add to the game in an engaging way?  Does the issue arise from cartoonishness or simply the bluntness of their archetype?  Is the impression a symptom of being slug analogues first, or is being a slug analogue inspired by a desire for a fat inept human analogue as well?  What can we do constructively to improve the impressions of existing races?

I feel it is important to also accept that some things might be the building blocks of other things, or have a hidden implication that is not apparent at first glance, for example: Perhaps the tywom actively export human junk food as a sort of exotic commodity, thus explaining its presence on their ships. My personal opinions should not prevent acknowledging elements that are integral to the story being presented.  Perhaps there are layers to the tywom we aren't seeing, but if the initial presentation is negative enough to warrant change - unless it is Far Too Late, it should probably be discussed. 

Like Ishaan0001, I like the SC2 ships hanging in the frame, but there are also negative aspects to such blatant references as well, as they can break whatever suspension of disbelief may be had of those eager to meet an alien, only to find it All Too Familiar. 

^ This is incredibly intelligent commentary, Dopu and something we all benefit from! 

Maybe the Tywom are meant to evoke the negative stereotype though. Being (from my understanding) people who have been watching us and even maybe interacting with us for a while, it would not be odd for them to have adopted some cultural things from us. And hey, maybe they are fans of SC 2 in-universe! Take the Thraddash for example. They evoked the feeling of being badasses by having a badass cigar on them even though aliens half the galaxy away have no business having cigars. My point is that it's not necessarily a bad thing to use some cultural shorthand and even take it to the point of ridicule with the more humanoid aliens in order to get the tone right, as with the Druuge who were SO EVIL that they literally hung in chains while talking to you, as impractical and undignified as that may look. It didn't take away from the grit while still making it funny.

Now though, this wasn't about the design of specific races (though it's certainly an interesting conversation on its own) but about the art style itself, specifically in this case that it's too light-hearted for the kind of gritty game this is supposed to be. On that topic you have but to look at the Pkunk:

And here is the infamous attempt to make them "gritty"

The original ones look ridiculous and they act ridiculous and it does nothing but enhance the feeling of unease when they do get serious. That kind of dissonance is not a bad thing at all and can even be an asset if handled properly. The gritty realistic ones are ridiculous too, but in a really bad way.

Look at the Orz too:

They're goddamn cartoon fishballs with beaks but it works because of the dissonance between what you see and the horrible interdimensional horror they actually are. You read the Androsynth logs and think back to how these cartoon fishballs were the ones who did all that tremendously hardcore slaughter and it's chilling.

There is always work that can be done, sure, but the art style is, at least in my opinion, going in the right direction for a Star Control game.

There is a difference between art style and character design. Most of the posts in this thread deal with the latter.

Here is a character drawn in multiple styles.

And reactions I have seen on the Internet have also dealt more with character design, most focusing on the human commander.

Personally I think the art style for SCO is good and while some of the designs might need some work things are going in a good direction.

Here are some SC classic aliens done in SCO style:

I echo the thought that the human commander's neck is too long in the 3D model.

I acknowledge that what I've seen so far seems to fit with the comparison that the current artstyle for Star Control: Origins matches the expectation for Pixar movie characters.

I do believe this is different from presentation in Star Control 2. When I picture Starbase Commanders Hayes and Talana, especially supplemented with the art shown of Talana when the SC2 Captain makes up, and the artwork of the elderly captain regaling the children with the old tales of his space adventures... as far as depiction of humanoids went, Star Control 2's artstyle seemed fairly realistic.

As for the aliens, there was wide variance in Star Control 2. I think of the Kohr-Ah, Ilwrath and the Druuge and I picture 'close to realistic'. I picture the Orz, Spathi and Umgah and I picture more cartoony. I picture the Shofixti and mentally compared them to Rocket from Guardians of the Galaxy, and I'm not sure if that falls in the realistic or the cartoony (I mean, sure, it's CG, but it's -really- detailed).

Therefore, I don't think it's fair to really call out what we've seen of Star Control: Origins on the level of the aliens. Clearly, its spiritual predecessor ran the gamut just as much as far as styling goes.

As for the Star Control Commander from SC:O, I'm willing to accept her styling as more inline with the presentation of aliens. SC2's graphical vision was very varied, SC:O seems to have a better idea of where it is going. Basically, what I'm saying is that the graphic design for SC:O appears to be more consistent to its predecessor... and this matches what I see what must be an hardware goal:

Stylized art styles survive the test of time much better than whatever high-detail our current computer technology can muster during any given year. Games boasting high-definition triple-A graphics have proven to quickly look dated. However, games that go for stylized artstyles aren't quite as affected by graphical advances.

Remember: the tech briefs for Star Control: Origins specify for goals that it has to work on potato hardware. This is where the chosen artstyle deserves praise - it's proven to have a great deal of scalability, managing to look good and coherent from low-specs to high-specs. Which compellingly backs the point I'm trying to make: stylized graphics means that the game will still look very good years from now.

Games like Zelda: Windwaker versus a more recent iteration such as Zelda: Twilight Princess, speak the same story. Windwaker is obviously an older game on a weaker gaming platform, but because of the message its artstyle tries to convey, it's easily excused for being dated because it was meant to offer a different visual experience. But comparing Zelda: Ocarina of Time to Zelda:Twilight Princess will simply show the former as being very dated in comparison to the other.

So, that's how I find that Star Control: Origins chosen artstyle shines. It's different than what I expected, but it has several technical merits on top of bringing what is still, at the very least, an above-average presentation.

While we are on the subject of the human commander's design, am I the only one who is not a fan her clothes? I would prefer if they looked more like a uniform or spacesuit.

Something like what Bradley and Casey wear.

Or at the very least not have her sleeves rolled up.

SC3 represents many factors coming together to force it into a position of distinct Difference and divergence, that it never really had any hope of escaping from beyond a certain point in its development. I won't be using it for any basis of comparison.

Since a distinction has been made between 'art style' and 'character design' I feel it's important to acknowledge that while distinct, these two subjects are irrevocably linked. Personally, I feel the art 'Style' in SC:O Is workable, and approachable. To complain about the art style alone is to broaden the topic in an unproductive way, making points about the art at large lacks finesse and while useful for a conversation concerning quick broad strokes  eg: 'SC:O Uses a vibrant palette to present a variety of alien species in a style reminiscent of a Pixar film'- it does not serve so well when focusing on the specific, eg: 'Many people feel the commanders neck is disturbingly long' or perhaps 'The concept of this character seems good, but they look far more friendly than anticipated' 

That said, we are here to assist and not necessarily dictate stardocks direction. If that direction is 'A family friendly space adventure with cute pixar aliens' then we need to be operating within that parameter, because making a case for Aliens-like gritty horror in that circumstance has no traction.  From this brief thread we can already derive some useful recurring points:

-The general art direction of SC:O feels very child friendly and uses bold colors and style to great effect in this regard. Not everyone is comfortable with this, and some may feel it does not do justice to the diversity of its predecessors. Is this necessarily a bad thing? Will the more menacing aliens offset the feeling, or is the issue intrinsic to the style being pursued? 

-The commanders body proportions are noticeably off to a relevant percentage of people, Should her final model be adjusted slightly? Some have expressed she lacks the gravitas of an authority figure - is this something relevant to her persona in the game, or an aspect of her basic design? She will be compared to Commander Hayes, and there is a sense that she should conceptually 'resemble' him more. 

-The Tywom are visually and thematically bland to some and just fine to others, expressed in different ways, How can they be more engaging? - is the highschool nerd personality endearing or amusing to others? Given the audience, will people be put off by relating to it - thus defeating its humorous intent? They will be compared to the spathi whom, while quirky, bore fewer of the human-relative traits in their design, being cowardly crab-clawed cyclops with an absence of complete facial features.  Should the tywom echo this by having their expressive features adapted into a more alien configuration? Would that help the perceived flaws in their presentation? 

Not all the aliens in SC1/2 were "gritty", certainly not the Melnorme, Pkunk and Zoq-Fot-Pik. The ones I considered scary were the Kohr-Ah, for their skull pit, the Dnyarri, for their psychic abilities that could rob you of your will and the Orz, for their otherworldliness. And even with these it wasn't because of their looks.

And not all aliens have to be frightening in SCO, that job falls to the Scryve, Phamysht and Xraki.

One problem I can see is that in SC2 the first aliens you meet are the Ilwrath, while in SCO it is the Tywom. Perhaps having one of the more scary aliens appear sortly after would help.

I have said this before and I will say it again, the aliens don't have to just look like aliens, they will have to behave in an alien way.

First alien you see is the Kzer-Za (drone). Then it's Spathi (Fwiffo).

I don't really consider the drone since it doesn't attack you, though that is a good point. An Ilwrath Avenger attacks you after visiting the Moon and then returning to the starbase.