Well, that's a pretty shit attitude for Stardock to take.  I don't care at all about how attractive she is, or how much somebody might want to cosplay her.  I want her to fit in with the rest of the game and not look like a rejected sketch from Frozen. Same goes for all the species. 

IMO that's a little bit harsh, dude. AT some point Stardock has (/had) to actually start developing the 3D assets from the concept art. It's done now, and asking them to change it would just mean a whole lot of extra repeated work at this point. Back at that point, only a few people were complaining about her look, so I think it was reasonable for SD to assume everyone else liked her design or was at least ambivalent. 

It's done now, no point in getting salty I guess. Time to move on (although I am pleased they'll be shortening her neck).

Darker uniform is definitely a plus. But, I also have trouble taking her seriously with the "rebellious teenager" highlights. She is a commander, not a high school cheerleader... A little less smug attitude and more serious would also be a plus.

I don't have a big problem with her, but I did like the very first original image I saw of her way back when better than any incarnation since then.  She originally looked older, and I always hate seeing young people portray as Admirals, Senators, and Presidents.  It's just makes no sense at all.  20-somethings never hold those types of positions in real life.

That is not true, while uncommon today, not so much in history.

Alexander the Great was general at age 18 and king at 20. George Washington became a Colonel when he was 22. Stevens T. Mason, the first Governor of Michigan, was elected in 1835 at the age of 24. Luke Ravenstahl become mayor of Pittsburgh at the age of 26 in 2006.

I could go on with other examples. Also just because she looks young doesn't mean she is. Plastic surgery and cosmetics are a thing. And undoubtedly these and anti-aging treatments will improve in the following decades.

That's some serious extrapolation here!

Also, I'm pretty sure generals got started younger 2000 years ago because the average life expectancy was about 30. Or something.

The Commander is over 60 years old.  She looks young for the same reason most humans in 2086 look young.

The only reason that she has any white at all was because she was already fairly old before the Synth tech started being distributed.  There's a whole backstory on her and the formation of Star Control.  The ship wasn't originally being made to go after the Tywom but rather to go find the Synths.

Yes, in ancient history things were very different in a lot of ways.  Alexander the Great died at 32 and may be the single most influential single human being in all of history.  I was talking more about modern times and likely into the future.

I don't dislike the commander, I just liked the very first image of her I ever saw better because she looked more late 30's than late 20's.  I've always thought that younger characters, which you want for the younger audience, are better as heroes than people in positions of power.  A 10-year-old can do something heroic, that makes sense for any age.  JJ Kirk, 20-something "Captain of the flagship of the fleet" (who was about to be thrown out of the academy) makes no sense at all.  Even as just the captain of a ship at all in modern times doesn't make any sense.  There are just certain jobs where "15-20 years of related experience" is a non-negotiable requirement.

But I like the commander, I like powerful female hero characters in sci fi.  Like Rey in the new SW movies, and my own story is full of them.  Just, for her position, I'd envision her as looking about 10 years older than she does.  But it's not a big deal too me.

As people play the game, a lot of the backstory will come through. 

The Commander in SC2 always looked very young (20s) and I presumed he looked young because of the tech.

Look at me.  I'm 46 and I look like I'm 25...

cough.

Yes, I can see from your previous post that she is apparently "out of time" in some way and looks a lot younger than she is.  I liked the original older look better, but I don't think its a problem.  Her story will make her cool or not, and explains her youthful appearance.  

I was lucky enough to look 10 years younger than I was right up until I cut off my hair, then I immediately looked my age;-)

I am about to unplug my computer and move, so I will be gone for a few weeks... then I'll finally get to play Super Melee!

And I'm 11!!!

It's not even uncommon today. Throughout most of the IT world, CEOs and drivers are often/usually in their 20's these days. Mark Zuckerburg famously said a few years back that he wouldn't hire someone older than that into a senior position because such people were too set in their ways and unable to adapt (ironically, he's in his 30's now).

In the military though, well, age usually equals seniority there, yes.

The concept pics look better to me actually. More realistic and natural. Regardless of whether or not the commander can be changed at this point, I hope voicing my opinion will help create dialogue and also help guide future design decisions in possible DLCs or sequels. Going with a cartoony look is fine for an alien form we have no familiarity with. But when it's our own species, there is going to be a certain inherent bias involved, because we can easily make comparisons with what we know our species should look like even in animated/cartoon rendering. The way the commander looks now immediately draws to mind references to toys and games designed for 5 to 8 year old children. I almost expect her to start talking to me about glitter and ponies. If I hadn't already put my money down, the commander's art style would have honestly given me pause. Which is saying a lot considering I rank Star Control 2 my favorite game of all time and I've been playing games for 25 or so years. 

But I'm not really looking to make comparisons between SC2 and SC:O. It's more that I'm comparing SC:O to other titles I can buy that are getting released this year. And compared to contemporary competitors in the market this just doesn't present well. 

Such as?

And I don't mean that as a challenge.  I am trying to envision what recent games you are comparing it to. 

I suppose my main advice would be to keep up with the Vault entries.  The Commander wasn't sprung on anyone. She was in vault updates for a very long time. 

I wasn't involved with her design (I didn't take over lead design until this past Spring) but I will say that I don't have any problem with her.

To me, she looks like a pretty natural progression of this style.  You take those characters, make them 3D and you have the Commander imo.

Protip: You should probably make their releases public founder knowledge by sending an email notification. There probably would have been a critical mass of founders with reasonable criticism months ago if more than ... 10%? (and that's a rough estimate, I am willing to bet it's far less) of founders knew about the vault updates.

About that image comparison, I think that you should be comparing conversation screen with conversation screen. The image you chose to draw a parallel to is the exception to SCII's art style, not the rule. This art style only appears during the opening and ending segments of the game, and is a lot more detailed and different from everything else you see throughout the game...

If I were to call her "the cute commander", would she beat me up?

I always liked that about Ivonova;-)

With regards to sending emails to everyone: We release vault updates pretty much the same day each month and have for a long time.

But mainly, my point is that it's not really fair when someone argues that we aren't listening to feedback when someone provides feedback long after it could change.

I don't feel strongly on the art style one way or the other -- beyond the fact that it's far too late to change it and the Commander's neck is too long.  I personally like it.

The main reason that look was chosen was because it was considered a natural evolution of Star Control II's style AND it allowed for lip syncing.

We had a good chat about this today on Discord where I showed recent games including the recent Master of Orion, Mass Effect: Andromeda. and a few other games.  All that came up was that people hated those styles more.

The one style people did seem to like is the GalCiv III style.  But you couldn't do that style with lip syncing unless we had something closer to a movie budget.

Fair enough points, but we haven't had much direction previously into what is final vs what can be changed.  What started my talk about the commander's design is your posts (both here and on discord) about redesigning various aliens.  I took that as you looking for feedback on ALL the aliens. 

The great thing about stylized art style is that is ages slowly. Anything resembling realistic art style will look obsolete in 5-10 years.

In 1998 I predicted that Team Fortress would live on for at least 20 years as a popular game due to the timeless cartoon look, much the same way as Bugs Bunny/Loony Toons didn't begin to look "old" until it was nearly 50 years old.  Assuming everyone doesn't stop playing it all of a sudden in the next 6 months or so... I will soon be proven right on that one;-)

The Commander is fine, except for her neck.  Thank you for lore about why she looks so young.

Sorry, I've sort of been in and out in terms of keeping track of the game's progress. My favorite game of all-time, but my dayjob is pretty demanding so can't devote as much time to following this as I'd like. In terms of what styles I'd find more appealing: 

As opposed to the current style which reminds me more of this aesthetic: 



I understand that there are budget constraints and that maybe the photo I posted is a style that would cost significantly more and therefore be unfeasible, but in general a more rugged, seasoned sort of look for the human commander would have been better I think, especially considering the backstory of them being hundreds of years old and being young through superior technology. That should mean she's in excellent physical condition, but psychologically speaking she should probably not be so dewy-eyed and chipper. 

Of course, everyone has their own interpretation of things and stylistic preferences, but I just think something a bit less kiddy wouldn't hurt. At this point, without experiencing the story, just going off the graphics and art-style this game feels more like it is designed for the 6-12 age group rather than 30-50 yr olds who played StarCon2 in their youth. 

Although if the goal of Stardock is to target the 6-12 age group then I will hold my peace. As there is nothing wrong with making the game targeted towards that audience instead of us old crusties. Hell, Toys for Bob have been making games for kids in that age group for the last 10 years or more, and I played Starcontrol 2 for the first time when I was 7. 

You do realize a there doesn't have to be a correlation between an art style an a game's target age group? Is South Park targeted at kids because it's a cartoon? I mean, I have no problem with preferences, but this is just silly...

Also, I believe SC:O is targeted at neither of those groups. It's definitely for adults, but not just for the, what, thousand 30-50 year old gamers who played SC1/2 when they were young AND care enough and have the time to play SC:O today . I think you need to broaden the target audience just a little bit if you have any hopes of being commercially successful

You are definitely listening to feedback, I just wish there would have been more of it.  It may be too late now, but I do believe it would have been better to try to be as inclusive as possible and go to some lengths to make sure as many founders as possible are participating in the conversation and providing their feedback.  Emails would have helped a lot.

Brad, I feel like detailing the Commander a bit more would make her look less plastic. Shouldn't be a lot to ask of your artists, right? :3