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AI: Writing writing writing

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AI: Writing writing writing

from JoeUser Forums

There’s so much text in Fallen Enchantress that author Dave Stern and I are thinking of having an e-book for players. There’s a lot of material and now that much of it is getting integrated, we hope it’ll start making the factions more distinct.

I can tell you that the AI behavior now follows the writing.

Writing and AI behavior are two key elements. In Galactic Civilizations, all races were the same other than their graphics, text, and AI behavior.  And all that AI behavior work would have been for nothing, imo, if players weren’t made aware that they were actually playing differently.

The world of Galactic Civilizations has some great heroes and villains.  The Drengin think you’re delicious. The Yor are bemused that meat can talk. The humans want to get along…but, don’t ever think the talking apes from Sol 3 won’t grind you into dust if they have to.

Elemental has some really great factions too.  Both before release and after release, we’ll be doing a lot more to make them feel and play differently.

I have my own biases for the different factions.  In my mind, as I code up my interpretation of the various XML tags I’ve come up with some basics on how they behave:

  • Pariden is bugged that the riff raff are squabbling over what is rightfully theirs
  • Capitar are a bunch of objectivists.
  • Altar wants to unite everyone – except the Empires who they despise
  • Tarth doesn’t like anyone.
  • Gilden are Paladins. Noble and honorable beyond reason.
  • Magnar are evil but make no bones about it.
  • The Wraiths would rather everyone just die. Nothing personal though.
  • The Urxen

I’m still working out some of the others in my mind in terms of programming them.

The way this comes through is in terms of whether they’re paying other players to do things to each other (don’t tick off Pariden as you will find others suddenly attacking you). Another area this comes through in what they say to you when they interact with you.  There’s also what units they build, how well they defend their cities, their biases in research, what they like to build in their cities, etc.)

This is why it’s so important to get good writing and have it communicated – without it, players may not realize just how much the AI is thinking about what say Gilden builds in their cities versus Yithril.

In GalCiv, this was communicated clearly to players via in-game dialog.  In beta 2, we’ll start doing more with this.  And what they say depends on who you are and how you’ve played.

From a player point of view, it lets me incorporate different strategies into the game.  Rather than trying to come up with “the best” overall strategy, I can implement several different ones (some of which may fail).

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And a gratuitous tactical battle shot:

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Reply #26 from Elemental Forums Top

Tarth could have some grow trees spells to impede armies. Combine that with boots of the forest, a forestwalk spell or trainable trait and we are on our way to some difference. I bet the hardest part about writing conversations is trying to make the game mechanics feel well connected to the lore, when the writers are probably not hardcore TBS gamers. 

Are the writers in the internal beta? (Besides Fb of course)

Reply #27 from Elemental Forums Top

I really like what I'm reading here guys.  Please keep it up! I'm eager to borrow and steal where applicable.

 

Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #28 from Elemental Forums Top

I see Kraxis as not necessarily aggressive but always looking for and quick to exploit weakness. If there are no weaknesses well then they might use underhanded schemes and diplomacy to make some. Since they are both human and empire they will try to buddy up to everyone, so they can gang up or back-stab later.

Personally I think isolationists fits the Wraith the best. They feel no need to deal with lesser creatures.You have to be very easy pickings or very strong for them to even really talk to you. They are slow to form agreements with others.

The Urxen could be insecure, and quick to see imagined slights. They have something to prove. They don't like pacts because they think they are getting the worse half of the deal. They are also somewhat aggressive because they feel the need to prove themselves. They especially are aggressive to those damn arrogant humans...

The Trogs could be inherently aggressive. It's just what they do. Doesn't matter if you weaker or even stronger they want to fight. They will even be nice about it. They like their enemies because you can't fight without one. Perhaps this means they don't like finishing players off. Maybe they even don't trust people they haven't fought. Maybe beating them in a fight as long you don't destroy too much of their infrastructure actually makes them like you. Of course if they are bored them liking you doesn't stop them from fighting with you. The only way to have peace with them is to be in an alliance wit them against someone else.

Reply #29 from Elemental Forums Top

Trogs:

Ah the noble savage. It was a racist abomination in novel form in the days of the old west. But since Trogs are actually a different race, I like the idea that they have a certain nobility to their savagery. You could even read some of that racist trash from the dime novel days for inspiration. Or just use the Klingon model: Honor in death.

 

 

 

 

Reply #30 from Elemental Forums Top

Yes, I can see Kraxis as being very interested in diplomacy and deals, yet will backstab/break deals when they feel that they can benefit.

Equally, Kraxis are not above bowing down to the current leader in power-> They won't pick a fight they know they cannot win, they will be sychophantic to the powerful and ruthless to the weak (manipulative and a bit of an ego complex)

 

Reply #31 from Stardock Forums Top

Just some comments on the tactical battle terrain : having different terrain types is a great improvement, but it is a bit hard to see which tiles are what. If the hills (and the bonus they give) are defined by their height, it would be nice to have an option to toggle displaying the terrain type (and height if applicable) it on all tiles, without having to mouseover. 

Reply #32 from Elemental Forums Top

Resolyn/Wraiths -> death mages + assassins

Trogs -> Brutish warrior caste

 

Its the Quendar and Urxen that are the tricky ones imho ...

While the Urxen are the inheritors of Umbra, and their leader appears to be a hybrid (possibly half-dragon), due to appearance the Quendar seem more likely for traits such as Serpents Pact.

 

Perhaps magnar's arrogance leads him to be an arrogant and cagey sorceror. Unwilling to make deals unless the Sovereign has equivalent Magical Skill (such as the Oracle of Ceresa).

Meanwhile the Umber are the mutts of  the Fallen, and wish to unite all the Fallen that are tired of old legacies. (somewhat similar to Altar, except that instead of adventurers the Umber are simply the 'equal opportunity tyrant' -> those who attract a horde of followers from various fallen races, due to their seeing all Fallen races as equally able to take over the planet)

Reply #33 from Elemental Forums Top

I think an easy way to flesh out the AI personalities (and the factions attatched to them) is to add performing quests as an item the player can offer in a trade.

So lets say that you piss off another sovreign and want to appease him, he may say, go rescue my daughter from these bandits and I will give you a 20 turn peace treaty and 100 gildar (and maybe some XP too). A different faction may instead ask you to go raze a city that is controlled by an opponent within 25 turns.
 

Reply #35 from Elemental Forums Top

Pariden is bugged that the riff raff are squabbling over what is rightfully theirs
Capitar are a bunch of objectivists.
Altar wants to unite everyone – except the Empires who they despise
Tarth doesn’t like anyone.
Gilden are Paladins. Noble and honorable beyond reason.
Magnar are evil but make no bones about it.

To expand on what you have said...

Pariden thus are always looking to expand. If there is no room left they will look to attack other players. However when they do attack they will try to justify it, so that they look like the good guy or make it look like they had no choice. Thus you might get a warning about encroaching on territory that is historically theirs or something before they attack.

Capitar would make pacts with other players fairly easily and generally be a good neighbor. They wouldn't be that aggressive unless you really have something they want and you refuse to give it to them. Expect them to make demands for a while before they declare war, and not to attack if you give in. They prefer to trade but will take by force if necessary.

Altar wants to form alliances with other kingdoms and use those alliances to attack the empires. If you refuse to join in their crusade then they might consider you an enemy to. They constantly offer you things in exchange for declaring war on their enemies, while trying to threaten or bribe kingdoms into alliances. With them if you're not with them then you are against them, your either for kingdom or empire no neutrality. They might literally offer you a choice go to war with an empire or go to war with us.

Tarth is the opposite of Capitar. They don't like agreements and pacts and while they aren't that aggressive they will seize what they want without warning. Generally however they tend to ignore other people.

Gilden would thus hate the empire as well and feel compelled to attack them, in order to make the world a better place. They would also dislike kingdoms that have attacked other kingdom players or who have acted dishonorably. If you are a kingdom player you would however usually have nothing to fear from Gilden no matter how weak you are. Although in extreme circumstances they might feel the need to conquer you for your own protection.Your reputation would really matter with them.

Magnar would be all evil arrogance. They would be aggressive and make no excuses. Your weak so we feel like torching your cities for fun, be glad we will take some of you as slaves instead of just murdering you all. They like picking on the weak and want you to know they enjoy it. However they also feel it is their right to unite the fallen against man. If they consider you an equal or more trouble then your worth they will form alliances and pacts. If you are a strong fallen player they will offer an alliance easily. They don't like humans though...

Reply #36 from Elemental Forums Top

Don't forget that the Gilden enslaved the Tarth for generations. They should always be at odds. If you are the Gilden and the Tarth become more powerful than you, expect a surprise attack or "reparations" as they call it. They should always play the slave card in negotiations. If you are Tarth, the Gilden should respond to you with derision, as you are nothing more than a band of rebel slaves. 

Reply #37 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting seanw3, reply 36
Don't forget that the Gilden enslaved the Tarth for generations. They should always be at odds. If you are the Gilden and the Tarth become more powerful than you, expect a surprise attack or "reparations" as they call it. They should always play the slave card in negotiations. If you are Tarth, the Gilden should respond to you with derision, as you are nothing more than a band of rebel slaves. 

Wasn't that Capitar?

Reply #38 from Elemental Forums Top

Was it Gilden that enslaved the Tarth?

I think Capitar and Altar are relatively favorable towards each other.

Reply #40 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 27
I really like what I'm reading here guys.  Please keep it up! I'm eager to borrow and steal where applicable.

Derek cooked up a clever system in his FFH2.  Every faction would get a unique option to choose from in random events that fit the faction's 'flavor' nicely.  Better still it pulled the player into the game with a little roleplay.  It could also apply to quest options rather than rewrite the system.

Reply #41 from Elemental Forums Top

If random events are added, Derek should steal from his own game design for this.

 

 

Reply #42 from Elemental Forums Top

There are random events. They are bugged in .77, but hopefully we will see them in .80.

 

Reply #43 from Elemental Forums Top

Bugged as in they do not show up?

Reply #45 from Elemental Forums Top

So...we have a bug, that does not show up. Thats perfect!

 

....silly logic. Sry, tried to be funny. ;)

Reply #46 from Elemental Forums Top

Hmm. So either a bug is causing them not to show up ... or maybe the devs decided to keep Random Events 'turned off' because they weren't ready yet?

Reply #47 from Elemental Forums Top

What about a bonus in relations for having the same race as another kingdom/empire? ("The Northern Orc tribes have band together & are pushing South into Giliad me'lord") - or could have a negative 'trait' that would make other's of the same race dispise you (For instance: 5 high dragon overlords with each there own army of draconians, jealous of one another & each wishing to enslave/destroy the others

 

I'm not sure how developed the cave system got (what all it can be used for), but I used to love starting in a cave underground in aow:sm, and could be a good place for neutrals to spawn & grow 

Reply #48 from Stardock Forums Top

Random events yeah!

 

Way bigger tactical maps very very good...

 

Distinct personality FTW

 

Keep them coming!

Reply #49 from Elemental Forums Top

The events system is great because now we can implement faction specific events. In Galciv every once in a while a faction might have a total change of leadership and change to the opposite alignment. In FE we could instead have an AI faction go on a crusade of vengeance against some real or imagined offense. Much like Pearl Harbor, the whole society might become warlike and start attacking perceived enemies, changing that factions dispositions. Join in the fight or die as a traitor. A faction's oracle might have a vision of impending doom that causes that faction to believe they need to conquer the realm in order to unite it and defend against this oncoming terror. A meeting between Kings might erupt into an Empire-Kingdom war across the realm. This is getting exciting. The best thing would be to have every faction get some special story for their event. 

The Tarth might declare war on slavery. 

The Capitar might declare war on rebels.

The Pariden might declare Manifest Destiny.

The Altar might decide that diplomacy is no longer an option now that the King's son has been assassinated by a fellow Kingdom.

The Gilden might start a Blitzkrieg and then offer peace. Only to attack once he has regrouped. (But no genocide like Hitler)

Any more ideas?