AI: Writing writing writing

from JoeUser Forums

There’s so much text in Fallen Enchantress that author Dave Stern and I are thinking of having an e-book for players. There’s a lot of material and now that much of it is getting integrated, we hope it’ll start making the factions more distinct.

I can tell you that the AI behavior now follows the writing.

Writing and AI behavior are two key elements. In Galactic Civilizations, all races were the same other than their graphics, text, and AI behavior.  And all that AI behavior work would have been for nothing, imo, if players weren’t made aware that they were actually playing differently.

The world of Galactic Civilizations has some great heroes and villains.  The Drengin think you’re delicious. The Yor are bemused that meat can talk. The humans want to get along…but, don’t ever think the talking apes from Sol 3 won’t grind you into dust if they have to.

Elemental has some really great factions too.  Both before release and after release, we’ll be doing a lot more to make them feel and play differently.

I have my own biases for the different factions.  In my mind, as I code up my interpretation of the various XML tags I’ve come up with some basics on how they behave:

  • Pariden is bugged that the riff raff are squabbling over what is rightfully theirs
  • Capitar are a bunch of objectivists.
  • Altar wants to unite everyone – except the Empires who they despise
  • Tarth doesn’t like anyone.
  • Gilden are Paladins. Noble and honorable beyond reason.
  • Magnar are evil but make no bones about it.
  • The Wraiths would rather everyone just die. Nothing personal though.
  • The Urxen

I’m still working out some of the others in my mind in terms of programming them.

The way this comes through is in terms of whether they’re paying other players to do things to each other (don’t tick off Pariden as you will find others suddenly attacking you). Another area this comes through in what they say to you when they interact with you.  There’s also what units they build, how well they defend their cities, their biases in research, what they like to build in their cities, etc.)

This is why it’s so important to get good writing and have it communicated – without it, players may not realize just how much the AI is thinking about what say Gilden builds in their cities versus Yithril.

In GalCiv, this was communicated clearly to players via in-game dialog.  In beta 2, we’ll start doing more with this.  And what they say depends on who you are and how you’ve played.

From a player point of view, it lets me incorporate different strategies into the game.  Rather than trying to come up with “the best” overall strategy, I can implement several different ones (some of which may fail).

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And a gratuitous tactical battle shot:

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Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

I can tell you that the AI behavior now follows the writing.

I love you guys. Seriously.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top


Gilden are Paladins. Noble and honorable beyond reason.

Magnar are evil but make no bones about it.

 

For some reason I thought the Gilden were only honorable to economic obligations ... (and a bit stand-offish)

 

As far as the Magnar, what does that quote even mean? I'd like to think of them as the 'lizard people' of the fallen ;)

My favorite custom thus far is a death/fire/air sorceress with a natural hue of green scaly skin, and red eyes.

 

 

The Political Machine 2024
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top


Shouldn't it be "I will consider your words" not "our words"

Excellent:

"The way this comes through is in terms of whether they’re paying other players to do things to each other (don’t tick off Pariden as you will find others suddenly attacking you). Another area this comes through in what they say to you when they interact with you. There’s also what units they build, how well they defend their cities, their biases in research, what they like to build in their cities, etc.)"

"From a player point of view, it lets me incorporate different strategies into the game. Rather than trying to come up with “the best” overall strategy, I can implement several different ones (some of which may fail)."

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

I would like to sincerely thank you Frogboy for all these sneak peeks. I appreciate it.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

You could give those Gilden some bonuses to mounted warfare. The most noble conquest is the bond between man and horse.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Loving the huge tactical battle map and the unique AI for differing factions, great job!

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Hmm ...

 

I think Tarth would prefer archers and horse archers (the skirmish + retreat approach)

 

while Gilden and Capitar would prefer Knights and footmen. (direct confrontation)

Gilden would probably focus more on high quality troops and a vertical economy,

while Capitar would likely focus on large 'organized' armies and horizontal growth.

 

Pariden would focus on mage units (and magical champions), supported by a legion of loyal footmen (mostly conscripts)

 

Altar would probably have a more even approach, focusing down all unit lines, with a slight bias towards Champions and Adventuring technology

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Hey Brad, if you guys are going to attach tactical bonuses to the terrain, please make it obvious what each terrain tile is at a glance. In terms of height / slope, this means providing a set number of terrain tiles: instead of dynamically generating 100 varying slopes that range from nearly flat to steep, please limit the tiles to flat, gentle slope, steep slope.

The reason is, no enjoyment is had from having to hover your cursor over nearly every single tile before you can determine what bonuses may be provided.

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

Oh I did enjoy the characters of other races in GalCiv2. Some of them talk down to you and then after you finish them off, NOT SO MIGHT NOW ARE YA! And oh ya I started all those wars that you guys fell for when you started beating each other up so that I could kill you all off one by one... HA!

 

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

Kraxis: I could see them being like Pariden, or seeing themselves as the rightful ones. 


One thing I want to see but don't think we'll get: two more factions.  12 is a better number then 10.

 

 

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

Hey Brad.  It would be nice to make a distinction between the flavour of races and the flavour of empires.  They seem all mixed up in your examples.  I guess it would mean a little work tying the characteristics of empires to Sovereigns but well worth it.  It will not be funny to have a game with 3 wraith empires who all behave exactly the same... 

 

But yes, character for the computer factions.  :yes:

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

You should consider the reason behind the messages. Why is Pariden telling us this stuff? If possible construct a scenario that will give you a couple options you can select from, and effect relations. Involve the actual sovereigns where viable.

Because the implementation you're going with now does get the information across, but it does so in a way that doesn't mesh with the world and damages immersion.

Reply #13 from Elemental Forums Top

I like these ideas, but I'd like to see them implemented within a broader random event system (something I still think this game needs, though not until beta 3)

 

Reply #14 from Stardock Forums Top

Now that tactical battle pic looks like the map is much bigger than what is in the game now.... THIS IS A GOOD THING.  I hope all the TC maps are as big or bigger.

Reply #15 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Alstein, reply 13
I like these ideas, but I'd like to see them implemented within a broader random event system (something I still think this game needs, though not until beta 3)

 

Couldn't agree more. The event system could really expand the story level of the game. 

Reply #16 from Elemental Forums Top

Funny. Some very different imaginations about some fractions. In my book Gilden are dwarfish humans, who like techs, economics and of course - gold is everything. I never thought of Tarth as a fraction, who don´t like anybody. Maybe they don´t trust anybody, but that has nothing to do with liking or not liking. Its a result of experience. And tarth is bound to mother nature.

 

 

Reply #17 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting DsRaider, reply 4
I would like to sincerely thank you Frogboy for all these sneak peeks. I appreciate it.

+1

Reply #18 from Elemental Forums Top

I see Tarth as the roguish forest dwellers. 

Reply #19 from Elemental Forums Top

Yep. Tarth are rebels or bandits that seek refuge in the forests, (and according to E:WoM most of their land is either forest or swampland)

Due to forests, I see a focus on archers and skirmishers ... horsearchers would just be a natural extension if they get their hand on horses

(but on one hand it doesn't make a lot of sense because they live in forest, so where do they train their horses, but details ...)

 

at least archers though ;)

 

If I had to go into details ...

favorite weapon

Gilden-> axe

Capitar -> Sword (and use a lot of spears)

Pariden -> Magic (with minions using clubs/spears/anything)

Tarth -> Bows

Altar -> balanced: no favorites

Reply #20 from Elemental Forums Top

That said, adding some personality to the races is a big deal.  GCII the aliens may not have been all that different, but the dialogue and writing, and AI behavior, really did make them feel different.  It's one of the things I felt was lacking in Elemental/FE.

 

 

Reply #21 from Elemental Forums Top

Gilden: Axe and Shield, vertical growth, honor contracts. Possibly Knights with Lance?

Capitar: Sword-using elite units leading an army of highly organized spearmen. Horizontal growth, neutral on the 'honor'. Horizontal growth

Pariden: looks down on everyone. Magic users are the citizens, everyone else are the minions loyal to the crown (else death). favorable to honor, yet not likely to make any contracts

Tarth: Bows and Javelins, general distrust/isolationist. Unlikely to make contracts and disfavorable to 'honor'. Possibly horse archers?

Altar: balanced army composition, VERY likely to make contracts, favorable towards honor.

(an expansion on the above)

Reply #22 from Elemental Forums Top

Which races will be isolationists? I loved how unique it felt to invade Yor space with all their defenses and the movement penalty. Tarth seem like they could be somewhat isolationist in nature.

Reply #23 from Elemental Forums Top


Umber has been ridiculed for their looks and way of life for ages. They life of what others call leftovers, and are tougher than a cockroach. Now, after the world collaps their time has come. They thrive where others falter and will show the world that they are the only ones left standing when the going gets touch.

 

Umber:

Vengeful - will always remember any wrongdoings against them

Tough - needs only 50% of the food others need to survive. More hitpoints than other races

Xenophobic - trusts noone (less diplo capital). Difficult to bargain with

Guild of dirt - attracts loners and survivors that wants to take their given right in the world. +25% more people come to them than others

 

There you go Sean. I play only Umber for now.

 

 

Reply #24 from Elemental Forums Top


This is how I imagine my Umber, not how the game gives em bonuses/weaknesses by the way.  :d

Reply #25 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting seanw3, reply 22
Which races will be isolationists? I loved how unique it felt to invade Yor space with all their defenses and the movement penalty. Tarth seem like they could be somewhat isolationist in nature.
That raises another point - Right now effecting the world around you is a significant theme, but the only practical effect is has is that it paints the map. Fall From Heaven 2 had a lot of good "in your territory" effects, some of the coolest of which (in my opinion) were associated with the Fellowship of Leaves. Even GCII which wasn't territory-oriented had the Yor ability you mention. It would be cool if FE were to have things that effected all of your territory and everything in it, based on faction traits or spells. Adding a mechanic that changes the properties of the area based on your sovereign's magical powers (sort of like Dominions) would be cool too, since that could increase and change during play.