DerekPaxton DerekPaxton

What's next?

What's next?

 

First off, thanks to everyone who has played the beta and provided feedback.  You are probably wondering what we are going to do next.

From a high level there are several types of gamers, different experience levels, different amounts of hours that they will spend with FE.  Someone playing their first game will appreciate and need different things than someone playing their 10th.  We need to appeal to both groups.  Because of that we will spend resources improving things that don't matter much to the sorts of hard core players that do things like read this post.

For example we are cleaning up the choose sovereign screen and making the sovereigns more archetypical.  Procipinee is clearly designated as a summoner, her summons start at higher level and she gets a free spell that puts that ability to use.  The sovereign backstory isn’t on the screen anymore to make room for more art and a general open clean feel instead of the prior lists of stats.

Imbuement has been removed from the game.  I loved the flavor of it, but players didnt realize they could be casting spells with their champions.  And it makes the champions less unique if the thing that distinguishes them most (their access to spells) is missed.  It was a bit of complexity that could be dropped without losing any good gameplay.  Most notably since all the champions can cast from the start when you find enemy champions in the wilds they start lobbing spells at you.  For those of us that are accustomed to attacking lone champions in the wild, seeing them starting combat by throwing fireballs at us is a bit of a shock.

So one of our focuses right now is in making the game more approachable.

But we have some asset and balance work to do too.  Not game changers, we aren’t throwing out any systems.  We have a good system in place, we need to focus on the sections that are weak and take advantage of the sections that are working well.

For example, I like the ability to recruit monsters.  But it’s too hard to get and not rewarding enough when you do.  So the Bonding Ceremony and Mercenaries techs are gone.  Instead the ability to create those improvements comes on other techs that were already worth getting (higher level improvements that allow you to recruit things like dragons and ogres are still special techs).  Most importantly when you train a monster like a Drake or Troll in your cities they will start at the normal level for that monster type, not level 1.  So your drake will start as a level 6 drake and capable of doing some damage.

The magic tree had some exciting things hidden in it but it needed some work to bring it out.  So we created a few new craftable items like magical staves, enchanted robes, etc.  Along with this came 30 new unit’s designs, 3 for each faction.  These include trainable Mages (units with magical staves that shoot fire or ice), mid-level warriors with magical weapons and end game units that have the best enchanted weapons, armor, traits and mounts the game has to offer.  If you see these marching over from the AI player you may be in trouble.

Champions aren't being nerfed as much as things are being balanced around them.  The most significant direct change to champions is that injuries matter more.  If you have a champion with 6-7 injuries on him he will be severely handicapped, it may be time to hand his equipment over to a promising newcomer without the battle scars.  XP is divided by the members of group to make it less rewarding to steamroll the map with your stack of super heroes.

But the big changes are in dramatically decreasing the tech costs.  There were always good units to make, but if your champions were level 7-8 by the time you got to them then it didn't matter.  Now your trained units are better, come earlier and mean more.

Quests are another area that need some attention.  Specifically we want more interesting rewards on them.  If you give the potion of restoration to the butcherman he will join you.  If you take the noblemans daughter back to his estate you will get a choice of rewards to pick from.  And of course any quests with bugs need to be fixed.

Add that in with a bundle of stability and performance improvements, bug fixes, new art and sounds and you have our hit list for the next patch.  I will release more details as it gets closer, we have lots to do and I'm excited to see what you guys think when you have a chance to play it.

 

342,598 views 144 replies
Reply #101 Top

Quoting Silicor, reply 68
The one problem I don't see addressed is the cost of units vrs free champions.  This is a major drawback using armies even if tech were faster.  I like that their is unit maintenance and I'd like to see champion maintenance as well.

 

I don't want to see Champion maintenance.  I perfer them to be different than the normal unit besides we usally have to pay for them up front.

 

Reply #102 Top

Quoting bluegreen0, reply 80
I think champions should have an increased chance of dieing after 2 injuries; or if people dont liek that you could make it an option as I personally dont want immortal champions that come back to life over and over. I personally think this would be really good giving you a chance to make a couple of mistakes and still have your champion.

Anyway I just hope you at least include champion death as an option thanks .

I second this. And I'll go one step more and ask for a Soverign death option.

Reply #103 Top

Quoting bluegreen0, reply 80
I think champions should have an increased chance of dieing after 2 injuries; or if people dont liek that you could make it an option as I personally dont want immortal champions that come back to life over and over. I personally think this would be really good giving you a chance to make a couple of mistakes and still have your champion.

Anyway I just hope you at least include champion death as an option thanks .

It's not a bad idea and I'm sure many have thought of this. The number of injuries should probably be configurable if it's implemented and a Sovereign should probably be given the ability to heal an injury to Champions (high mana cost).

 

Additionally Champions with many injuries should be sent to a City where they slowly heal overtime.

Reply #104 Top

Quoting Mortenart, reply 100
The game world needs far more connection with the gameplay - including the oceans.  More than just a hunt for the tiles with the best food/materials, to build a city.  As the name Elemental suggests, all elements should be crucial to success - be they forests, water, stone, metal - or rare and magical.  We must feel a part of the world in which we are playing - we must feel that everything on the map matters - and we must feel that the land is alive, and a part of our unfolding story within the game.

 

 

 

I agree with this. One way is to add more resources, in a Civilization fashion. Add Fish to a river tile, White Stags to a forest tile, and just have them generate a bonus to the normal tile's resources (Fish would add food, Ironwood trees would add production). These wouldn't be required for anything special, they would just be bonuses. You could also trade them, of course. It seemed like there was something similar to this in Elemental though, so I doubt it's implementation here since you didn't like the results there...

To give another example though, I'll point at Gal Civ 2. Every planet mattered. They all felt unique to me. Each had it's function, it's look, it's style. Space is nothing but stars and space, but the ambiance and visuals still made me feel more a part of the game then FE has achieved so far.

Reply #105 Top

Quoting MadMagnus, reply 83
I am on this bandwagon. When I think magic fantasy, I think of a game that can cover all bases - what about Cannons? Magic inspired siege weapons? What about caravans with alternative transportation or protection methods? City walls made of crystal? City walls formed of magic (Dalaran from WoW)? Magitech, anyone? This of course brings me back to summoning idea too. If you could build, say, a portal to the underworld that generated 1 skeletal horse......

Yep, a very good example of an exiting technical and magical world is Eberron and i thought FE would have more impressive technologies in the trees (air ships, lightning cannons, ...).

I think only the sovereign should be able to cast spells and champions can only use magical items (scrolls, wands, ...) to cast spells like the mages a player can hire.

Reply #106 Top

I'm not sure if all Champions need to have 'magical' spells, but certainly each needs their abilities

 

(perhaps a separation between a good melee champion(martial skills and/or buff magic) and a good ranged champion(ranged spells/or ranged magical attacks))

In any case, I'm sure some champions would just be very strong, with no spells and maybe not even an initial martial skill (but having at least one would be cool)

Reply #107 Top

I think totally removing the imbue system is a really really bad idea. By doing that it makes the sovereign no different from any other champion except that you can pick spell schools for them in the beginning if you make a custom one. That and it totally throws the fiction to the wind about channellers being the only ones who can wield magic. I can never agree with a change that undermines the fiction of a game, even if it is to supposedly increase 'fun' factors. If you really must have champions using magic on their own, give them like...some kind of crystal or item that stores a certain amount of mana and the ability to cast...something, anything other then just 'boom, you're a mage'. 

Makes me really iffy about a game when the devs start talking about ignoring aspects of their own story.

Other changes sound good but the imbue system being removed...I really don't like it. It's not even that I don't want to fight other characters in game that have magic. That I don't mind. You know, two sovereigns exchanging spells on the field is pretty interesting. Or the imbued enemy hero making himself a bit more of a threat. That I can agree with. I can't agree with suddenly - all these random people suddenly have magic with no explanation and no real reason other then that it removes some of the learning curve of the game for new players. It really isn't that difficult, if one is to open their spell book and read what their spells do...they would know.

Reply #108 Top

Quoting Desperatli, reply 107
I think totally removing the imbue system is a really really bad idea. By doing that it makes the sovereign no different from any other champion except that you can pick spell schools for them in the beginning if you make a custom one. That and it totally throws the fiction to the wind about channellers being the only ones who can wield magic. I can never agree with a change that undermines the fiction of a game, even if it is to supposedly increase 'fun' factors. If you really must have champions using magic on their own, give them like...some kind of crystal or item that stores a certain amount of mana and the ability to cast...something, anything other then just 'boom, you're a mage'. 

Makes me really iffy about a game when the devs start talking about ignoring aspects of their own story.

Other changes sound good but the imbue system being removed...I really don't like it. It's not even that I don't want to fight other characters in game that have magic. That I don't mind. You know, two sovereigns exchanging spells on the field is pretty interesting. Or the imbued enemy hero making himself a bit more of a threat. That I can agree with. I can't agree with suddenly - all these random people suddenly have magic with no explanation and no real reason other then that it removes some of the learning curve of the game for new players. It really isn't that difficult, if one is to open their spell book and read what their spells do...they would know.

That is one aspect of the story we don't need in the game.  Imbueing was just an unnessasry pain in the butt in the game. Some Champions not all should come with spells and when going up in level they would get a choice to choose certain spells like they can now with choosing the different schools of magic.

Champions choosing a path as they level is the way to go. Champions should be the sum of all the skills you choose for them.  I could have a Champ that might have many warrior type skills and Fire I so he would be a fighter Mage or I could have a pure specilist Water mage  etc.

Reply #109 Top

Why don't we test these changes before deciding if they are good or bad for the game? It was said a long time ago that story is less important that solid game design. 

Reply #110 Top

Quoting Bellack, reply 101
I don't want to see Champion maintenance.  I perfer them to be different than the normal unit besides we usally have to pay for them up front.

Quoting Desperatli, reply 107
I think totally removing the imbue system is a really really bad idea. By doing that it makes the sovereign no different from any other champion except that you can pick spell schools for them in the beginning if you make a custom one.

Agree with both

Reply #111 Top

All sounds good.

I don't see any mention of rebalancing gildar costs of equipment though. As brought up by Crass_Monkey in his long 0.77 feedback thread it is crazy how much money basic equipment for heroes costs relative to the economic output of a town. To quote my own comments from that thread:

Nothing spoils immersion like your thriving capital producing a +5 gildar per turn profit and needing to spend 500 gold to buy some basic armour for your hero!

It needs to be setup so that heroes can use mundane items (ie non magical weapons/armour) but to really get ahead they want magical equipment. Then by all means make the magical equipment expensive but at least that makes sense - I can just about swallow the idea that a suit of mithral chain with flame retardant properties could take 100 turns of profit from my capital (ok it is still a stretch but a much more comfortable one!).

Reply #112 Top

I totally agree.  How is the town producing all these items if it can only produce 5-10 gildar per turn?

Reply #113 Top

I think that the best option for injured champions is a place they can go and recover their injuries.  Maybe if a certain building is in a town, and they sit idle in the town for a certain amount of time an injury heals, or perhaps there is a special world resource like a magical rejuvenating hot spring and they stay there for a certain amount of time they will recover from injuries.  The basic idea being that if you want to get rid of his injuries then you have to take him out of the fight for a while.

Reply #114 Top

Quoting Stmorpheus, reply 113
I think that the best option for injured champions is a place they can go and recover their injuries.  Maybe if a certain building is in a town, and they sit idle in the town for a certain amount of time an injury heals, or perhaps there is a special world resource like a magical rejuvenating hot spring and they stay there for a certain amount of time they will recover from injuries.  The basic idea being that if you want to get rid of his injuries then you have to take him out of the fight for a while.

This already happens on a hit points basis.  I prefer the idea of rewarding players for upgrading their characters in a diversified manner (as in real life).  As your characters are gaining experience, they focus on different things, some combat/spell casting, some political, some economic, some leadership, etc.  That way, once a character grows old or is severely injured they can 'retire' from a combat role and settle into a productive role as a civic or political leader, maybe even a spy-archetype, or diplomatic specialist.  The idea that characters should forever be combat juggernauts, with a bit of downtime now and then seems to unrealistic and gamy to me, even for a fantasy-based world.

Reply #115 Top

Quoting Desperatli, reply 107
I think totally removing the imbue system is a really really bad idea. By doing that it makes the sovereign no different from any other champion except that you can pick spell schools for them in the beginning if you make a custom one. That and it totally throws the fiction to the wind about channellers being the only ones who can wield magic. I can never agree with a change that undermines the fiction of a game, even if it is to supposedly increase 'fun' factors. If you really must have champions using magic on their own, give them like...some kind of crystal or item that stores a certain amount of mana and the ability to cast...something, anything other then just 'boom, you're a mage'. 

Makes me really iffy about a game when the devs start talking about ignoring aspects of their own story.

Other changes sound good but the imbue system being removed...I really don't like it. It's not even that I don't want to fight other characters in game that have magic. That I don't mind. You know, two sovereigns exchanging spells on the field is pretty interesting. Or the imbued enemy hero making himself a bit more of a threat. That I can agree with. I can't agree with suddenly - all these random people suddenly have magic with no explanation and no real reason other then that it removes some of the learning curve of the game for new players. It really isn't that difficult, if one is to open their spell book and read what their spells do...they would know.

 

Here's a compromise idea:

Channelers are ones who can use the power of the shards.  Imbuing gives shard bonuses, without imbuement you cannot get the bonuses from shards.

 

 

Reply #117 Top

Quoting Alstein, reply 115
Here's a compromise idea:

Channelers are ones who can use the power of the shards. Imbuing gives shard bonuses, without imbuement you cannot get the bonuses from shards.

Brilliant! I love it.

Reply #118 Top

Who are you compromising with?  o_O

Reply #119 Top

Any chance for new betabuild today?

Reply #120 Top

.78 is probably next week. We would have a change log otherwise.

Reply #121 Top

I'm thinking one more week myself...SD has a lot to work out right now.

Reply #122 Top

I like the 'only channelers/imbued can use shard bonus' idea.

Reply #123 Top

Quoting Tasunke, reply 122
I like the 'only channelers/imbued can use shard bonus' idea.

No offence or anything, but they've stated they're removing Imbue and the reason why is new players didn't realize what it was meant for. Changing the meaning doesn't really remove the fact that they feel it's not obvious when and why Imbue should be cast. I personally liked the original concept of Imbuement and would rather not replace it with a different form of obfuscation just to leave the spell name in the game. I tend to agree with the reasoning though so don't have any issues with the modification.

 

Reply #124 Top

I guess what I'm saying is that ... sure, why not allow units to use magic? But I think they should be imbued in order to get the global bonus of shard damage.

 

I suppose its not necessary. I mean, alternatively ONLY the soverein (and level N+ champions) could get Shard traits ...

like say there are 3 traits Magical Mastery I-III, with II being available at level 4 and III being available at level 8. Then the Sovereign and level 8 caster champions could both use the shard bonus ... (while Mastery I and II uses a lesser percentage of the shard bonus perhaps)

 

Alternatively though, if all casters use from the global mana pool anyways, it may very well be excessive Obfuscation. Just depends on the practical applications I think. (Does Imbue as it stands represent a permanent investment of essence? or is it just a regular 'spell' that uses mana?)

Reply #125 Top


Patch is next week?! Rogdan is a sad beta tester X(