DerekPaxton DerekPaxton

What's next?

What's next?

 

First off, thanks to everyone who has played the beta and provided feedback.  You are probably wondering what we are going to do next.

From a high level there are several types of gamers, different experience levels, different amounts of hours that they will spend with FE.  Someone playing their first game will appreciate and need different things than someone playing their 10th.  We need to appeal to both groups.  Because of that we will spend resources improving things that don't matter much to the sorts of hard core players that do things like read this post.

For example we are cleaning up the choose sovereign screen and making the sovereigns more archetypical.  Procipinee is clearly designated as a summoner, her summons start at higher level and she gets a free spell that puts that ability to use.  The sovereign backstory isn’t on the screen anymore to make room for more art and a general open clean feel instead of the prior lists of stats.

Imbuement has been removed from the game.  I loved the flavor of it, but players didnt realize they could be casting spells with their champions.  And it makes the champions less unique if the thing that distinguishes them most (their access to spells) is missed.  It was a bit of complexity that could be dropped without losing any good gameplay.  Most notably since all the champions can cast from the start when you find enemy champions in the wilds they start lobbing spells at you.  For those of us that are accustomed to attacking lone champions in the wild, seeing them starting combat by throwing fireballs at us is a bit of a shock.

So one of our focuses right now is in making the game more approachable.

But we have some asset and balance work to do too.  Not game changers, we aren’t throwing out any systems.  We have a good system in place, we need to focus on the sections that are weak and take advantage of the sections that are working well.

For example, I like the ability to recruit monsters.  But it’s too hard to get and not rewarding enough when you do.  So the Bonding Ceremony and Mercenaries techs are gone.  Instead the ability to create those improvements comes on other techs that were already worth getting (higher level improvements that allow you to recruit things like dragons and ogres are still special techs).  Most importantly when you train a monster like a Drake or Troll in your cities they will start at the normal level for that monster type, not level 1.  So your drake will start as a level 6 drake and capable of doing some damage.

The magic tree had some exciting things hidden in it but it needed some work to bring it out.  So we created a few new craftable items like magical staves, enchanted robes, etc.  Along with this came 30 new unit’s designs, 3 for each faction.  These include trainable Mages (units with magical staves that shoot fire or ice), mid-level warriors with magical weapons and end game units that have the best enchanted weapons, armor, traits and mounts the game has to offer.  If you see these marching over from the AI player you may be in trouble.

Champions aren't being nerfed as much as things are being balanced around them.  The most significant direct change to champions is that injuries matter more.  If you have a champion with 6-7 injuries on him he will be severely handicapped, it may be time to hand his equipment over to a promising newcomer without the battle scars.  XP is divided by the members of group to make it less rewarding to steamroll the map with your stack of super heroes.

But the big changes are in dramatically decreasing the tech costs.  There were always good units to make, but if your champions were level 7-8 by the time you got to them then it didn't matter.  Now your trained units are better, come earlier and mean more.

Quests are another area that need some attention.  Specifically we want more interesting rewards on them.  If you give the potion of restoration to the butcherman he will join you.  If you take the noblemans daughter back to his estate you will get a choice of rewards to pick from.  And of course any quests with bugs need to be fixed.

Add that in with a bundle of stability and performance improvements, bug fixes, new art and sounds and you have our hit list for the next patch.  I will release more details as it gets closer, we have lots to do and I'm excited to see what you guys think when you have a chance to play it.

 

342,681 views 144 replies
Reply #51 Top

depends on what you mean by removing imbuement.

 

backstory is that there's a bunch of magic users called channellers who get to be bosses... eh.. sovs.

 

if any old dog can cast spells.. what's the difference between channellers and them? (what make sovs special?) i imagine not every hero (eh.. champ) can cast spells once imbue is removed?

Reply #52 Top

Quoting alaknebs, reply 51
depends on what you mean by removing imbuement.

 

backstory is that there's a bunch of magic users called channellers who get to be bosses... eh.. sovs.

 

if any old dog can cast spells.. what's the difference between channellers and them? (what make sovs special?) i imagine not every hero (eh.. champ) can cast spells once imbue is removed?

I hope this is the case.. the difference in MY MIND... is that sovs can tap into other sources of magic for power.. heros crystals etc.. doesn't really matter. The important thing to me is that not EVERY CHAMP should not be capable of casting spells.. it should  be an inhierant ability. Not some spell cast on someone, which makes every champ a potential magical powerhouse.

Reply #53 Top

I imagine only Champions that start with one or more Magic Schools will be able to cast spells.  I would strongly disagree with Champions without any spell schools being able to cast *any* spells, even general ones that currently have no schools.

Reply #54 Top

Since your champions with magic use your mana to cast spells what mana will neutral champions be using and will it be limited?

Reply #55 Top

It is interesting to see so much feedback without getting the new beta. Seems like we are starving for these improvements. I don't necessarily need the beta this week, but how about the new quest xml?

Reply #56 Top

Derek, most of this sounds very good. But you don't mention one very important subject; city- and empire building. At the moment, this is probably the most unsatisfying, inconsequential, and frankly boring part of the game. Some of the changes you mention in your post might make it more important (as training centres for your units), but no more fun. So is it going to get any significant changes in the coming months? There are quite a few threads about this subject, so I know I'm certainly not the only one who feels this way.
As with the other parts of the game, the systems to make city building and management fun are mostly in place. But they are in dire need of some dev love.

I'm with Heavenfall and Sethai on the techs and pacing; both the tech tree (and the number of techs on it), and the pacing need some attention.

So one of our focuses right now is in making the game more approachable.

I really hope that doesn't lead to 'dumbing down'. The deeper mechanics are already hardly noticeable (if not completely absent). It's ok if you haven't seen 95% of gameplay after the tutorial and your first game, in fact a game is more fun if you still discover some interesting mechanics and pieces of content after your tenth game. Late game mechanics need to be more interesting than just early game mechanics but with more units, more heroes, more cities, more and more powerful spells.

Reply #57 Top

You can bet that they are still working on fixing the improvements. It was listed as a priority in .75. I would guess that the changes they are making will require more time and so are not mentioned here. 

Reply #59 Top

So your drake will start as a level 6 drake and capable of doing some damage.

This is great, hate seeing my drake get one-swatted in its first battle.

 

Also, I think it's great about the injuries taking their toll. I'd almost like to see injuries hurt encumbrance a bit as well.

Reply #60 Top

Quoting Satrhan, reply 56
Late game mechanics need to be more interesting than just early game mechanics but with more units, more heroes, more cities, more and more powerful spells.

Although I look forward to the improvements already planned, Satrhan's comment made me think about what FE is missing. Right now I don't feel like my little kingdom changes as I progress through the tech tree - most techs just add "more stuff," more buildings, more items, and so on. Compare this to Fall From Heaven: research was exciting in that game, you didn't just get more and better versions of the old stuff, techs opened up new options that could change the way you played. Researching and adopting a new religion with its civic would fundamentally alter (or revolutionize, hah) the way your empire runs. Researching magic opened up a whole new area of the game you didn't have before. Look at every tech in FE: are you excited to get this tech? Does it change the way you play, from turn to turn? If the answer is no, you have to question if that tech even needs to exist.

Or look at it from another perspective - when you encounter another empire, can you tell what they've researched? I could tell in FfH, because the research path you chose had such a fundamental impact on your city development and military that it was obvious even to others. In FE I've never run into an empire and thought - "Ah, he must have gone the military path, look at that equipment!" (I blame all the easy loot from exploring/questing, there's little incentive to learn to make your own platemail when every other mob is carrying some, but that's another discussion).

FE has a few exciting techs that open up something completely new - the dragon ally tech comes to mind - it needs more. All that stuff in the lower end techs really needs to be accessible from the beginning with no research, or consolidated into fewer techs. I've only played a handful of beta games and I'm already sick of re-researching very basic stuff like groups of soldiers and inns and shard harvesting. Remove or consolidate the early game techs we have to slog through to get this basic stuff, and add more techs that give you something interesting, something that opens up new ways to play the game instead of adding +1 to what you were already doing.

Now Derek's comment about techs giving magic weapons makes me think we're already on the way there, so I don't mean to sound too critical, I just want to emphasize how important it is to see more techs like that worked into every tree to make research exciting.

Reply #61 Top

You make some good points.  I think I (and I suspect, a lot of others) would prefer getting basic tech at the start of the game rather than having to research basic stuff each and every game.

Reply #62 Top

Good to see these changes.  Nothing I disagree with here.  Can't wait to see how it works in practice.

 

Is the XP divided evenly, by level, by damage done?

Reply #63 Top

Quoting DexCisco, reply 62
Good to see these changes.  Nothing I disagree with here.  Can't wait to see how it works in practice.

 

Is the XP divided evenly, by level, by damage done?

My vote is for one of the first two. I really don't want to start micro-managing xp points by needing to have quicker units pass their turn just to build up xp for the slower ones.

Reply #64 Top

Pretty sure it is evenly divided. 

Reply #65 Top

Not sure whether army units will get less than champions that survive the same battle though.

Did you know, something that already is implemented is that if a champion dies in a battle, they don't get any experience if your side wins that particular battle?  I think that is a good penalty for letting your heroes die (and it makes sense that if you fall, you get an injury and don't become more experienced =)).

Reply #66 Top

Quoting Austinvn, reply 60
Although I look forward to the improvements already planned, Satrhan's comment made me think about what FE is missing. Right now I don't feel like my little kingdom changes as I progress through the tech tree - most techs just add "more stuff," more buildings, more items, and so on. Compare this to Fall From Heaven: research was exciting in that game, you didn't just get more and better versions of the old stuff, techs opened up new options that could change the way you played. Researching and adopting a new religion with its civic would fundamentally alter (or revolutionize, hah) the way your empire runs. Researching magic opened up a whole new area of the game you didn't have before. Look at every tech in FE: are you excited to get this tech? Does it change the way you play, from turn to turn? If the answer is no, you have to question if that tech even needs to exist.

Or look at it from another perspective - when you encounter another empire, can you tell what they've researched? I could tell in FfH, because the research path you chose had such a fundamental impact on your city development and military that it was obvious even to others. In FE I've never run into an empire and thought - "Ah, he must have gone the military path, look at that equipment!" (I blame all the easy loot from exploring/questing, there's little incentive to learn to make your own platemail when every other mob is carrying some, but that's another discussion).

FE has a few exciting techs that open up something completely new - the dragon ally tech comes to mind - it needs more. All that stuff in the lower end techs really needs to be accessible from the beginning with no research, or consolidated into fewer techs. I've only played a handful of beta games and I'm already sick of re-researching very basic stuff like groups of soldiers and inns and shard harvesting. Remove or consolidate the early game techs we have to slog through to get this basic stuff, and add more techs that give you something interesting, something that opens up new ways to play the game instead of adding +1 to what you were already doing.

Exactly that is a great post.

Reply #67 Top

Seems like a lot of users are beginning to feel like I feel.

The trees are pre-planned as a linear progression of "Steps That Unlock Things". What those things actually ARE is secondary. Items on a Spreadsheet. Now take for example Civ: if you want to improve your weapons, you can't just research "warfare". You want gunpowder? Sorry, my dear warlord, you'll have to learn some chemistry, first. In a tech tree conceived this way, the meaning of the items (with all of their relations and implications!) comes first. This is why it feels more alive and meaningful, and some of the techs have an inherent game-steering value.

 

 

Reply #68 Top

The one problem I don't see addressed is the cost of units vrs free champions.  This is a major drawback using armies even if tech were faster.  I like that their is unit maintenance and I'd like to see champion maintenance as well.

Reply #69 Top

Quoting mastroego, reply 67
Seems like a lot of users are beginning to feel like I feel.

The trees are pre-planned as a linear progression of "Steps That Unlock Things". What those things actually ARE is secondary. Items on a Spreadsheet. Now take for example Civ: if you want to improve your weapons, you can't just research "warfare". You want gunpowder? Sorry, my dear warlord, you'll have to learn some chemistry, first. In a tech tree conceived this way, the meaning of the items (with all of their relations and implications!) comes first. This is why it feels more alive and meaningful. 

 

I agree that the tech tree is pretty uninspired.

Which is a shame. Post-apocalyptic fantasy is a pretty unique setting that lends itself really well to interesting tech research. As it stands now, the tech tree doesn't really do that much except stretch out the game. It doesn't really add that much in the way of immersion or ambiance, and if it contributes anything to strategy, I haven't seen it.

Granted, the tech tree right now isn't bad, it's more of an issue of wasted potential. 

Reply #70 Top

Imbuement has been removed from the game. I loved the flavor of it, but players didnt realize they could be casting spells with their champions. And it makes the champions less unique if the thing that distinguishes them most (their access to spells) is missed.

If this is the case perhaps Dynasties should be back, with only a chance that children will have "magic" in their blood and it will also be much later in the game when they are not as powerful but would be a good edition to the later troops as leaders for your armies.

Reply #71 Top

Quoting Austinvn, reply 60


FE has a few exciting techs that open up something completely new - the dragon ally tech comes to mind - it needs more. All that stuff in the lower end techs really needs to be accessible from the beginning with no research, or consolidated into fewer techs. I've only played a handful of beta games and I'm already sick of re-researching very basic stuff like groups of soldiers and inns and shard harvesting. Remove or consolidate the early game techs we have to slog through to get this basic stuff, and add more techs that give you something interesting, something that opens up new ways to play the game instead of adding +1 to what you were already doing.

I hope some dev is reading this.

Reply #72 Top

It keeps getting bigger and better! Keep up the good work!

Reply #73 Top

Quoting Magog_AoW, reply 71

Quoting Austinvn, reply 60

FE has a few exciting techs that open up something completely new - the dragon ally tech comes to mind - it needs more. All that stuff in the lower end techs really needs to be accessible from the beginning with no research, or consolidated into fewer techs. I've only played a handful of beta games and I'm already sick of re-researching very basic stuff like groups of soldiers and inns and shard harvesting. Remove or consolidate the early game techs we have to slog through to get this basic stuff, and add more techs that give you something interesting, something that opens up new ways to play the game instead of adding +1 to what you were already doing.



I hope some dev is reading this.

This is important. At the moment FE feels a little like a Civ game where your tech progresses through eras - except we don't have eras. For this sort of game the tech should be subtle just giving a few percentage points of improvement for weapons and armour etc rather than the current model:

"Here I am after the cataclysm and for some reason I've lost all knowledge of everything."

Then 60 seasons later...

"Hey guys, look at this. If we put a rock on a stick it actually does more damage than just using the stick on it's own!"

Reply #74 Top

Great list of changes and do want .78! :beer:

Reply #75 Top

Blah blah blah... When do I get .78?