Banksters and Political Gangsters

myfist0

Join Date 01/2010

+319

Banksters and Political Gangsters

A look into the financial crisis.

External Link

An excellent film.

youtube.com/watch?v=BuyrBRUsu9A

See also Michael Moore's new film Capitalsim: A Love Story Trailer and the Freedom Radio Review points out the errors.

and HBO's Too Big to Fail (the making of) which is an entertaining white washed look at the collapse.

And ya I am behind the times, I don't watch TV so I get info by word of mouth or internet.

"... whenever the Legislators endeavour to take away, and destroy the Property of the People, or to reduce them to Slavery under Arbitrary Power, they put themselves into a state of War with the People, who are thereupon absolved from any farther Obedience, and are left to the common refuge which God hath provided for all men against force and violence. ... [Power then] devolves to the People, who have a Right to resume their original Liberty, and, by the Establishment of a new Legislative (such as they shall think fit) provide for their own Safety and Security, which is the end for which they are in Society."

John Locke

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”

“The system of banking [is] a blot left in all our Constitutions, which, if not covered, will end in their destruction... I sincerely believe that banking institutions are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity... is but swindling futurity on a large scale.”

“I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a moneyed aristocracy that has set the Government at defiance. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs.”

“... To take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specially drawn around the powers of Congress is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition. The incorporation of a bank, and the powers assumed by this bill [chartering the first Bank of the United States], have not, been delegated to the United States by the Constitution.”

Thomas Jefferson

“I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war.”

“The money power preys on the nation in times of peace, and conspires against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, more selfish than bureaucracy. It denounces, as public enemies, all who question its methods or throw light upon its crimes.”

President Abraham Lincoln

“A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the Nation and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the world - no longer a Government of free opinion no longer a Government by conviction and vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominant men.... Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the U.S., in the field of commerce and manufacturing, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.”

President Woodrow Wilson

"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin.
The Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them,
but leave them the power to create deposits,
and with the flick of the pen they will
create enough deposits to buy it back again.
However, take it away from them, and
all the great fortunes like mine
will disappear and they ought to disappear, for
this would be a happier and better world to live in.
But, if you wish to remain the slaves of Bankers
and pay the cost of your own slavery,
let them continue to create deposits."

Sir Josiah Stamp
President of the Bank of England

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."

"A business that makes nothing but money is a poor business."

Henry Ford

“Some even believe we (the Rockefeller family) are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure – one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.”
	David Rockefeller

"The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-world government combining super capitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control.... Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent."
	Congressman Larry P. McDonald

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Quoting ElanaAhova,

reply 26

BTW You have 'pilgrim' in your name. IF that means you are also an 'evangelical' or baptist oriented christian, ( a bible believer), or one who believes in Church dogma, canon law, and encyclicals) then I have a much graver concern for you: The texts that 'bible believing' Christians hold as accurate statements of the teachings of Jesus clearly present a jesus that sided with the poor, the powerless, and those who failed to get justice in the courts because they could not afford it against the rich. It does not bode well that these groups of Christians, in their sermons, their public documents, and in elections, side with the rich and powerful. Remember "... the least of these..." trumps any loyalty to a modern economic system. "Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." g-d or mammon, you can't serve two masters....

Quoting myfist0,

reply 40

You can have a rebutal to that last statement but lets please keep religion out of this topic. I don't want it booted to JoeUser only.

As you can see my reply # 39 quoted above is in response to ElanaAhova's comments.

Even though Rerum Novarum is certainly germaine to the topic, I will, as best I can, honor your request not to bring religion into this discussion.

ElanaAhova,

I very much appreciate your comments, and would like to give a full response, but that can't be here. So, in the near future, I will create a new blog on JU forums and do just that.

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Quoting lulapilgrim,

reply 16

It is not money that is the root of all evil, ...

Money is the evil... simply look how money is created in the video below... without debt, you don't have money... due to how the money is created, from time to time, the debt bubbble who never stop growing explode...

Full original version at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc3sKwwAaCU

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Welcome Thoumsin. I seen that a while ago, nice find

Quoting lulapilgrim,

reply 51

As you can see my reply # 39 quoted above is in response to ElanaAhova's comments.

Even though Rerum Novarum is certainly germaine to the topic, I will, as best I can, honor your request not to bring religion into this discussion.

I typically don't like steering the thread, at least before allowing to respond to other comments first. Thank you for understanding.

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Daiwa

Join Date 07/2001

+350

There is a 'glitch' so to speak in the way JU attributes quotes. If it comes from a reply you posted, the quote is attributed to you and your reply, even if it was something you quoted from someone else, which gets a little confusing if you're not paying close attention. First glance suggests you are quoting the person to whom the quote is attributed, but that's often not the case. Several statements which appear attributed to me in this thread were not made by me.

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Quoting Daiwa,

reply 54

Several statements which appear attributed to me in this thread were not made by me.

I noticed that as well. Quoting quotes should be watched carefully.

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Lula posts #16

Quoting lulapilgrim,

reply 16

Centralizing government power is behind the financial crisis. It made itself the BANK, the money supply. As long as it arrogantly acts as though it knows more about economics than business does, there will be no recovery.

What's the root cause of the huge problem? It's what the Popes call the modern acceptance of "greed" of power and money and of earthly goods.

Pius XII, in Le Pelerinage de Lourdes, laid down the characteristic problems of modern greed. "Modern materialism, rages in a love of money which creates even greater havoc as modern enterprises expand...it shows itself in lack of interest in one's brother, in selfishness which crushes him, in justice which deprives him of his rights, --in a word, in that concept of life which regulates everything exclusively in terms of material prosperity and earthly satisfactions" (n. 47).

Of this Dr.Arthur M. Hippler wrote, "It is important not to think of these condemnations as peculiar to a "capitalist" or "consumer" society. Pius XI reminded Catholics that socialism affirmed that "human association has been instituted for the sake of material advantage alone. (Quadrageesimo Anno, n. 119.). Indeed, (now Blessed) Pope John Paul II's strong criticism of liberal capitalism is based on the fact that "it agrees with Marxism, in the sense that it totally reduces man to the sphere of economics and the satisfaction of material needs" (Centesimus Annus, n. 19).

Both the liberal capitalist and the socialist systems are expressions of greed, albeit in different ways. Greed is an ugly word, but then again it is an ugly thing.

It is not money that is the root of all evil, but rather the love of money. Our society whether liberal capitalist or socialist, promotes this love to the detriment of those spiritual goods for which we are truly made."

...........................................................................................................................

Quoting Thoumsin,

reply 52

Quoting lulapilgrim,
reply 16
It is not money that is the root of all evil, ...

Quoting Thoumsin,

reply 52

Quoting myfist0,

reply 53

Welcome Thoumsin. I seen that a while ago, nice find

Thoumsin,

Yes, welcome.

Please read #16 again.

I reiterate, money, in and of itself, is not evil. But rather it is the love of money, the abuse and misuse of money that is evil.

And, as long as "We the people" allow the political, economic and cultural elites their love, abuse and misuse of money, the crisis will continue.

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Quoting lulapilgrim,

reply 51

ElanaAhova,

I very much appreciate your comments, and would like to give a full response, but that can't be here. So, in the near future, I will create a new blog on JU forums and do just that.

My new blog can be found at:

http://lulapilgrim.joeuser.com/article/410497/Capitalism_and_Our_Economic_and_Moral_Crisis

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Is it the love of money or the love of power that money provides?

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Quoting AlLanMandragoran,

reply 58

Is it the love of money or the love of power that money provides?

We see all too often that one sin (evil) leads to the other.

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WoW, someone is really pissed off

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Meh, how bout an end to ALL career politicians?

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Quoting SivCorp,

reply 62

Meh, how bout an end to ALL career politicians?

Yes, it's called the public vote.

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US credit rating just dropped to AA+ from AAA, the first time in US history.

Standard & Poor's listed "not enough cuts to Medic-aid" and "poor politics" on the downgrade.

Now let's see just how much the US is a corporatocracy when the patent runs out on 20 or so drugs. If the patents are allowed to run out and generic forms of these drugs are allowed to hit the market it will save Medic-care and Medic-aid billions a year. I am willing to bet they go with death panels before that happens.
http://www.uspto.gov/patents/resources/terms/156.jsp

Every point in interest added to bonds will cost taxpayers billions a year for nothing. I am sure that will help, the banksters.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/193437/20110805/s-p-strips-u-s-of-perfect-long-term-credit-rating-warns-of-further-drops.htm

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ElanaAhova

Join Date 09/2008

+105

Plenty of money in usa - its just concentrated in hands of uber rich because taxes have been cut on uber rich continuously from the Reagan administration to the present. Plenty of money, just in the wrong pockets. Even Obama betrayed the common people by cutting the safety net and cutting taxes on uber-rich.

US govt cut taxes, again, on uber rich / uber corps. Then says we can't pay our debts, so lets cut aid and medical to the poorest of our citizens, the disabled, the walking wounded, etc., by implementing these austerity measures. In effect, they continue and intensify the massive transfer of wealth from the people to the uber rich, via tax codes, and billions of dollars of welfare payments to corporations.

Restore taxes to rates they were at in 1970's and there would be more than enough money to pay off the entire debt in one year.

The fact that a rating group, like standard and poor has targeted 'medicaid' is just more rich people and their instruments of choice, (the uber corporations), waging even more war on the poor.

Obama promised 'change you can believe in.' yes, we have it now, the change in our pockets is all we have left, believe you me.

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Daiwa

Join Date 07/2001

+350

Quoting ElanaAhova,

reply 65

Take every last penny from the 'uber rich' - you won't come close to paying off the debt or balancing the budget. Then what?

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Quoting Daiwa,

reply 66

Take every last penny from the 'uber rich' - you won't come close to paying off the debt or balancing the budget. Then what?

I keep hearing this argument and it is very very weak.

All the income tax from every middle class ON THE PLANET will not fix the debt so I will no longer pay income tax. It will not help so why bother. Actually the middle class WILL spend their extra income and not sit on it while the country turns 3rd world like the wealthy are now.

I would tax the wealthy a hell of a lot more with a promise to return to low taxes once there is a surplus and maybe then all those god damn lobbyist might push to drastically lower attack spending. The economy must be turned away from being a military industrial complex which builds nothing but enemies and death. The US can't even build their own bridges any more.

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Quoting Daiwa,

reply 66

Take every last penny from the 'uber rich' - you won't come close to paying off the debt or balancing the budget.

This is true.

Today the bottom 52% of people do not pay any income tax and thus are not contributing to the government revenues, but they are getting subsidised housing, child care, medicine, food, etc. which are paid for by those 48% who do pay income tax.

of which of these the top 10% (the rich) pay 70%!

Yet, all we hear from Obama is "shared sacrifice" ...that the rich must pay more income tax. The point is the system is abused and desparately needs to be changed...maybe to a flat tax of some kind.

Quoting ElanaAhova,

reply 65

Obama promised 'change you can believe in.' yes, we have it now, the change in our pockets is all we have left, believe you me.

We all heard from Joe the Plumber where Obama wants to go with his idea of "change" ...it's called Socialism..."class struggle" and

Quoting ElanaAhova,

reply 65

Plenty of money, just in the wrong pockets.

Obama would have the money possessed, regulated and distributed by the State.

Now added to the income tax we pay lots of other kinds of taxes. So we know now, it's not a revenue problem the government has, but rather a huge spending problem.

Of every dollar the government spends, 42 cents is borrowed...this is unsustainable. Obama has borrowed 1.7 trillion dollars ... that means he spent 1.7 trillion more than the government took in revenues. For over two years, the Democrars had a super majority. They couldn't/wouldn't offer a budget because there was no way of hiding these numbers.

How long would your household last if you spent 42% on your credit card more than you bring in? Is the answer to raise the credit card limit?

That's exactly what Obama and some of the Dems insisted upon and got in the deal. Raise the debt ceiling and continue to spend, spend and spend.

After all, Obama sees government spending as the best way to create his vision of society.

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Daiwa

Join Date 07/2001

+350

Quoting myfist0,

reply 67

I keep hearing this argument and it is very very weak.

It's not an argument... it's just math.

To get to a balanced budget and pay off our debt with 'revenue enhancements' only will require moving the tax increases all the way down the tax ladder. When BO talks about 'shared sacrifice', he's talking about every taxpayer out there & letting you think he means only the 'rich'. What 'shared sacrifice' will the half of the country paying no taxes suffer?

What needs to be sacrificed are entire federal departments which have demonstrated a negative return on 'investment' (as BO so fondly refers to spending OPM) such as the Department of Education.

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I really don't see how taxing minimum wage hamburger flippers will help. These people spend what money they have and it's not on Lamborghini's and Corporate jets, it's on rent and crap processed food because they can't even afford to eat healthy.

The baby boomers are costing a big chunk with Social Security and health but this is the generation that fought WWII. I do not see the point of all the defence spending if the people that fought for the country are put out on the street and no longer contributing to the economy. I would not fight for a country that refuses to take care of its own.

Take a look at that link in my post above about the drug patents extensions. How many billions have that cost the taxpayer over the years so a couple corporations could continue to rape the treasury. How much foreign aid has went out over the years so half the money comes back in the form of lobbies to put in or get rid of elected officials just to keep the war machine rolling. How much money is spent on keeping marijuana users in jail every year, not even allowed to grow hemp because of lobbies. When you bust all the unions and take away any chance of a real wage, how does that help tax income or the housing industry? How do these trade agreements that ship all the jobs overseas help anyone in the country accept a few suits in board rooms?

Now you want to scrap education so people are to stupid to even come on a thread like this and argue the point? I guess all these uneducated welfare schleps are good enough to go over seas and die so you can continue to drive down the block for your $10 latte and pick up your kids at private school.

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Daiwa

Join Date 07/2001

+350

Quoting myfist0,

reply 70

Now you want to scrap education

Please pay attention, myfist0 - I said no such thing. I graduated from high school, college and professional school before DOE existed and, in my opinion, quality education was one of the US's strongest features in the three decades after WWII. DOE was never needed. Just what, exactly, has the Federal Department of Education contributed to the education of our children since it was established 31 years ago? How are they doing in comparison with children from other countries which spend one-third to half the per-student cost in the US?

There has been an inverse relationship between the amount of money funneled through the DOE and the competitive success of our schoolchildren. DOE has failed its mission miserably. Yet they always think the answer is 'more money'. There is a difference between 'scrapping education' and scrapping the DOE, which, if anything, would improve education in the US and save a shitpot of money we don't need to be wasting. I don't think it's an accident that education started to fall apart as soon as the feds got in the game.

As for drug development, it's easy to take potshots at companies which have succeeded in bringing to market, at huge expense, medications that make a real difference in people's lives, while taking for granted their efforts' benefits. I doubt those drugs would exist without the profit motive. Having been around healthcare awhile, I never cease to be astounded at what some take for granted.

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Daiwa

Join Date 07/2001

+350

Quoting myfist0,

reply 70

I guess all these uneducated welfare schleps are good enough to go over seas and die so you can continue to drive down the block for your $10 latte and pick up your kids at private school.

And, BTW, mindless bullshit of this sort does you no favors.

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Quoting Daiwa,

reply 72

And, BTW, mindless bullshit of this sort does you no favors.

I will grant you the misunderstanding about the DOE which caused me to get a little hot under the collar. Though you should be a little more specific with these claims and maybe even provide a link to help elaborate.

And as far as I am concerned, the only thing the drug companies have succeeded in doing is turning the whole country into legal drug addicts. I will probably start a whole new thread on that subject.

July 20th, 2011 "Business Insider" -- - Outselling even common drugs to treat high blood pressure and acid reflux, antipsychotic medications are the single top-selling prescription drug in the United States.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28639.htm

More than 29.5 million Americans suffer from migraine,
http://www.headaches.org/education/Headache_Topic_Sheets/Migraine

just a couple teasers

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Daiwa

Join Date 07/2001

+350

Well, we do live in the US, you know.

As for that planned thread of yours: mortality from coronary disease and stroke declined 60% from 1970 to 2000, in both the US and Canada. Why do you suppose that was? And why, with its superior healthcare system, didn't Canada do better?

And that's only one disease category.

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Quoting Daiwa,

reply 74

And why, with its superior healthcare system, didn't Canada do better?

I don't think anyone has ever ever stated "superior", rather the same basic quality but we don't go bankrupt when we get sick or injured or avoid care or medication because of the cost.

http://healthcare-economist.com/2007/10/02/health-care-system-grudge-match-canada-vs-us/

Each system has its cost to benefit ratios.

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