Army Competiion: Already Failing

http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr136/kyogre12p/barad-dur12.jpg
from Elemental Forums

Ok, as you know from my previous posts I was really looking forward to this as it was fun.  However, I see that its fatally flawed and will be difficult to win.

 

1) The number of submissions has to be overwhelming, so near impossible to QA

2) I have done as some other "top people" have done and hosted the videos and made links.  They got points, I didn't.  So, maybe that's not valid anymore...but they retained their points. (and they keep reposting the SAME videos to similar self-signed up depots that have no user base....so what's the point?  Oh! Its + 75 points...again, fail)

3) Things are slipping through that are plagerized, not unique, and not really pertaining. I again, was surfing through other people's submissions to see what else I could do...but decided to take appreication of fan art.  OMG +75 points for some of this.  Look at http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr136/kyogre12p/barad-dur12.jpg  Its not even Elemental related! The user didn't even take the time to hide the fact you can see the image is opened up from Lotr (lord of the rings)!

So, I must say...what I once thought was a marketing genious...is actually an epic let down of a contest.  Also, after reading aura's reply to "what is the point of the army" I fear that this is actually going to cause elitism, make a contest that people can't realistic compete in(especially those who come in late)...and give it "oh, its just another fanboi post who hasn't even played the beta or read the book yet..."

What is done, is done.  But well..at what cost? 

 

This is similar to everyone going anti-ubi because of DRM. Quickly the "negative reviews" got overlooked as everyone understood that is why. So the "valid complaints" got missed in the mix.  Well, now its going to happen in the opposite effect.  Really, how many posts out there are of people who have SEEN the final product or read the book yet?  None of us...I will admit, I was one of them.

 

I have failed this game since I participated in this viral campaign before we knew its effect.   I am going to remove my posts, my forums, downloads, and links to hopefully stop the perception of "anything elemental" being just a vanilla fanboi post. This game needs attention when real things start coming out and not lost in a wave of senseless blogs, posts, links, traffic.

 

I also know this contest is a failed attempt and I have stopped working towards it as its objectivity.  So I will no longer participate as it will be futile to put so much effort to win only half the points I submit that were previously awarded to others.  My last quest will be a linke to this post...so that it gets recognized for its 10 points and linked so other can see.

 

I am happy with the entry into the gift card, and the about 80+ people I confirmed signed up and those additional entries it gave me...as well as at least to them. 

elemental
60,256 views 90 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

We're working to improve the moderation tools to make detecting dupes and spam much easier, and ironing out guidelines for same. And yes, we will be going back and revising point allocations for people who've spammed or exploited shortcomings in the moderation tools to slip past the same thing multiple times.

If your stuff gets rejected make sure to read the moderator comment. It may be that you've just provided the wrong link. We need to be able to see stuff in context to tell what sort of response it receives.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

You cannot get frustrated for "the chances to win" if you don't actually care if you win or not.

*cuddles the 10 points*

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

well the big thing I would say to combat a lot of the negative feelings you have is that what's done is not done.  The mod tool improvements were made expressly so we can go back and check up on some submissions that we may feel are not valid.  Look for point totals to come down for people who have inflated them soon.

also as a side note the fan art thing is probably in the wrong category but I'm pretty sure its a model being made for a Lord of the Rings based mod of Elemental.  Thus deserving of some points at least.

In addition, keep in mind that some things no one has done yet are worth a lot of points.  If you come up with something really cool that's not just the same old digging you will be handily rewarded.  I plan on implementing a Top Quests view soon that will show people the things people have done that have been worth the most points for a single quest (which are invariably the more unique/fun/cool stuff).

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

3) Things are slipping through that are plagerized, not unique, and not really pertaining. I again, was surfing through other people's submissions to see what else I could do...but decided to take appreication of fan art. OMG +75 points for some of this. Look at http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr136/kyogre12p/barad-dur12.jpg Its not even Elemental related! The user didn't even take the time to hide the fact you can see the image is opened up from Lotr (lord of the rings)!

You're right, it's from the Lord of the Rings, and you're also right about how I made no effort to hide that fact. When you look at other people's submissions, it unfortunately does not show the "comments" section of the submission, but as I explained in that, that model as well as the other artwork I submitted is for a Lord of the Rings mod for Elemental that I am working on: https://forums.elementalgame.com/363259

I wasn't exactly sure what the best catergory was for mod related stuff (unique promotion, maybe?) so I went with fan art because it seemed the closest.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

At least they are attempting to fix the contest when they found submissions they didn't like.  The Bioware Bazaar was completely useless because of people grouping together their points.  I lost a lot of points after the Digg changes, but I don't care.  As long everyone else loses points for similar posts, and keeps it fair for everyone, I'll keep playing.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Wow, kyogre.....you really want to win this competition as I see. Nice! :thumbsup:

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Tormy-, reply 6
Wow, kyogre.....you really want to win this competition as I see. Nice!

Depends on what you mean by "win":P Do I want to be in the top ten and get one of the grand prizes? Yes, very much so:drool: Does it matter what place I am in the top ten? No, not really. First, tenth, seventh, I don't care. Although I will tell you that I am quite shocked I'm doing so well. I know it's still very early in the competition, with a long way to go until the end, but I thought my chances would be a longshot at best. I need to find a way to get myself in a podcast, because someone just got 400 points for doing that.

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

I apologise ky ogre.  You are correct that I cannot see your comments and to my perception, which I admit now is wrong, it did appear to be a wtf in my eyes.  I apreciate and respect you took the time to respond and clarify.  I'd share a major mana potion with ya at the bar anytime. :)

Overall apologies to fellow gamers and staff.  Just wanted to point our my perception, which I know was not your intention.

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

u shouldn't be complaining, u joined a cult...

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Wintersong, reply 2
You cannot get frustrated for "the chances to win" if you don't actually care if you win or not.

*cuddles the 10 points*

 

lol!

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting zampolit, reply 8
I apologise ky ogre.  You are correct that I cannot see your comments and to my perception, which I admit now is wrong, it did appear to be a wtf in my eyes.  I apreciate and respect you took the time to respond and clarify.  I'd share a major mana potion with ya at the bar anytime.

Overall apologies to fellow gamers and staff.  Just wanted to point our my perception, which I know was not your intention.

Hey, don't worry about it. I can understand the confusion it caused, because without the comments it certainly does appear to be irrelivant. I'm glad it's cleared up for you now.

Perhaps in the future it would be better if we could see the comments? Although I don't know, some people might have put things in the comments that were for the moderators' eyes only, that they wouldn't be comfortable sharing.

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting kyogre12, reply 7

Quoting Tormy-, reply 6Wow, kyogre.....you really want to win this competition as I see. Nice!


Depends on what you mean by "win" Do I want to be in the top ten and get one of the grand prizes? Yes, very much so Does it matter what place I am in the top ten? No, not really. First, tenth, seventh, I don't care. Although I will tell you that I am quite shocked I'm doing so well. I know it's still very early in the competition, with a long way to go until the end, but I thought my chances would be a longshot at best. I need to find a way to get myself in a podcast, because someone just got 400 points for doing that.

heh the person with the podcast mention is actually not eligible for prizes :)  so don't worry about competition from that, but yea that is a good way to get a lot of points (and fun).  Like I said, I'm looking to get a Top Quests view in there soon to see all of the cooler stuff people have done.

 

for the comments: I don't think we will have comments be viewable because they are meant to be seen by moderators (for privacy concerns) plus there is no easy place to display them

Reply #13 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Kestral2040, reply 12


 Like I said, I'm looking to get a Top Quests view in there soon to see all of the cooler stuff people have done.

Hrm, now going to have to think of something. I do have something humorous I'll make...but have to wait until I travel back home this weekend...stay tuned

Reply #14 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting kyogre12, reply 7

Quoting Tormy-, reply 6Wow, kyogre.....you really want to win this competition as I see. Nice!





Depends on what you mean by "win" Do I want to be in the top ten and get one of the grand prizes? Yes, very much so Does it matter what place I am in the top ten? No, not really. First, tenth, seventh, I don't care. Although I will tell you that I am quite shocked I'm doing so well. I know it's still very early in the competition, with a long way to go until the end, but I thought my chances would be a longshot at best. I need to find a way to get myself in a podcast, because someone just got 400 points for doing that.

heh the person with the podcast mention is actually not eligible for prizes so don't worry about competition from that, but yea that is a good way to get a lot of points (and fun). Like I said, I'm looking to get a Top Quests view in there soon to see all of the cooler stuff people have done.

I was actually wondering about that, because the description of the podcast on the website seemed to imply that person worked for Stardock, but I wasn't it sure (It said "Stardock water carrier:P )



for the comments: I don't think we will have comments be viewable because they are meant to be seen by moderators (for privacy concerns) plus there is no easy place to display them

That's kind of what I figured.

Reply #15 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Storm, reply 15
I've also noticed that referrals have been credited to some but I Have not received points for at least one of the referrals I've made and my buddy used the email I sent him to create his account.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd still refer them because I am super excited about this game, but I do feel the system is flawed.

 

 

I've noticed a lot of that as well.  But it might be that you refered their "IM" account or the "one they use on forums" but the one they actually monitor(and sign up with) may be different.  I know that's what happend a lot on my friends. :(  So I gave up trying to get those refferral points.

Reply #16 from Elemental Forums Top

I think people should get points for Forums Activity as well. Even if it's only 1 point per post. Not to mention I was plugging Elemental on Gamespot and a few other sites way before the "Elemental Army" started, and I don't seem to be able to go back and get "retroactive points" for things I did months ago.

Honestly, I'm not concerned with "Winning". I already bought and paid for my copy and the upgrade to limited edition. Having a spare would be cool, but it's not the end of the world if I don't win.

I do how-ever think it's quite....annoying...that new users and people who barely ever post anything have made it to "elite" or "expert" while some of our Most Active Forum Members like Wintersong, Me, Tormy-, and a few others have no rank at all. Makes it feel kinda cheap to me...sorry.

Reply #17 from Elemental Forums Top

What if points were added at the end of each month for karma and posts? The forums participants with the most posts and karma at the end of each month and those who have posted the most often, that way it's not just a bunch of posts in a single day, but continuous participation over time?

Reply #18 from Elemental Forums Top

I do how-ever think it's quite....annoying...that new users and people who barely ever post anything have made it to "elite" or "expert" while some of our Most Active Forum Members like Wintersong, Me, Tormy-, and a few others have no rank at all. Makes it feel kinda cheap to me...sorry.


i can understand that sentiment, though you're going to have a huge advantage over us come release for beta 2 in that you already understand the game and will be able to start having some awesome discussions about it, while others like myself are going to need to learn about the game before we can have the same level of input as you (by such time i expect to be left in the dust:P)

also, i have noticed everytime i log in my rank has increased without completing any new quests(or gaining more points), so the mods are certainly revisiting and revising points previously given.

I think it's a great idea the whole army thing, not just for marketing the game, but getting alot of the new people involved.  Without the point incentive, i'm sures others would think of a point, then not worry about making it because they know sooner or later someone who's been around longer will make it.  Now, they'll, want to get their voice heard and the community will grow, so long as we can avoid the negative spam side of the comp^^

Reply #19 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Raven, reply 17
I think people should get points for Forums Activity as well. Even if it's only 1 point per post. Not to mention I was plugging Elemental on Gamespot and a few other sites way before the "Elemental Army" started, and I don't seem to be able to go back and get "retroactive points" for things I did months ago.

Honestly, I'm concerned with "Winning". I already bought and paid for my copy and the upgrade to limited edition. Having a spare would be cool, but it's not the end of the world if I don't win.

I do how-ever think it's quite....annoying...that new users and people who barely ever post anything have made it to "elite" or "expert" while some of our Most Active Forum Members like Wintersong, Me, Tormy-, and a few others have no rank at all. Makes it feel kinda cheap to me...sorry.

well its not really for showing who is the most die hard fan of Elemental period...  the focus is to help get the word out, we already do have a vibrant community here.  The things you posted on Gamespot should have gotten you points, I will look into what happened with that.  Also I think karma is a better indicator of most active community members (esp on the forums themselves).  

 

edit: for the email questions, the problem is almost assuredly that your friend used a different email account to sign up then you sent the email to.

Reply #20 from Elemental Forums Top

I do how-ever think it's quite....annoying...that new users and people who barely ever post anything have made it to "elite" or "expert" while some of our Most Active Forum Members like Wintersong, Me, Tormy-, and a few others have no rank at all. Makes it feel kinda cheap to me...sorry.

I will admit, I was rather surprised by this as well. Looking at the current top 10, I only recognize one name on the list (besides myself) as being one I remember seeing before the competition began.

That being said, I can understand why they're doing it. As other thread have mentioned, the main point of the Army is to get the word out about Elemental, and while the people who are very active on these forums are no doubt helping to make a better game with suggestions, ideas, bug hunting, etc, posting on these forums doesn't really do anything to spread the word. Everyone here already knows what Elemental is, is well-informed about it, and likely has already pre-ordered the game.

And you do get points for forum activity, at least a little. But again, as has been said elsewhere, they want forum activity on non-Stardock forums more. Although I would like to know what a 100 point forum post would be like. So far the most I've seen is 25-30 points. 100 points would have to be a short novel:P

EDIT: Ninja'd:'(

Reply #21 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Raven, reply 17
I think people should get points for Forums Activity as well. Even if it's only 1 point per post. Not to mention I was plugging Elemental on Gamespot and a few other sites way before the "Elemental Army" started, and I don't seem to be able to go back and get "retroactive points" for things I did months ago.

Honestly, I'm concerned with "Winning". I already bought and paid for my copy and the upgrade to limited edition. Having a spare would be cool, but it's not the end of the world if I don't win.

I do how-ever think it's quite....annoying...that new users and people who barely ever post anything have made it to "elite" or "expert" while some of our Most Active Forum Members like Wintersong, Me, Tormy-, and a few others have no rank at all. Makes it feel kinda cheap to me...sorry.

If people got points for posting, we'd just get a barrage of useless posts.

I'm all for contributing to try and make a better game, and telling my friends about it (one pre-ordered due to my recommendation, so I sure hope it works out). But turning it into a competition like this just creates a lot of noise as people compete to outspam each other and earn points.

So, I'm sitting the whole thing out. The phrase "all publicity is good" isn't true.

Reply #22 from Elemental Forums Top

What if points were added at the end of each month for karma and posts? The forums participants with the most posts and karma at the end of each month and those who have posted the most often, that way it's not just a bunch of posts in a single day, but continuous participation over time?

The karma system really isn't in such a condition that we could integrate it in such a way, and it probably wouldn't be the best idea anyway since users could just start giving each other karma for no reason at all but to inflate the count.

"Most posts" is not going to be a winner either since we're not looking to encourage spamming just for its own sake. As we've said elsewhere, we're generally looking for significant, ongoing involvement, particularly those on other sites that might bring more positive attention to the game. If you're looking to get credit for every question, bug, or one-liner you might post, you're going to find yourself getting minimum points or none at all for those.

Reply #23 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Raven, reply 17
I do how-ever think it's quite....annoying...that new users and people who barely ever post anything have made it to "elite" or "expert" while some of our Most Active Forum Members like Wintersong, Me, Tormy-, and a few others have no rank at all. Makes it feel kinda cheap to me...sorry.
I can't and won't talk for others but in my case I have 10 tiny cute points because I signed for that 1 in a million chance of winning something (no grand prizes though). Refering friends? No one I know would be interested (style of game or language) or would only be interested if it were free (pirated or as present by yours truly). Articles and such? Very doubtful but could be possible. Fan art? I like fan art but not in a hurry.

Also, and as Krestal said, it's about getting the word out. That some people get prizes for the work done for free? Good for those but I think that's secondary at best.

Quoting BerkeleyBoi, reply 18
What if points were added at the end of each month for karma and posts?
Please, I don't know why I have the Karma I have (I don't check it) but I'd bet that most is for just avatars, silly pics or comments I make from time to time and very few of those points for actual "Elemental meat". For my case I'd consider it unfair unless the rules specify "Being a silly deserves reward".

Quoting kryo, reply 23

The karma system really isn't in such a condition that we could integrate it in such a way, and it probably wouldn't be the best idea anyway since users could just start giving each other karma for no reason at all but to inflate the count.
I remember that happening very early in the History of the Forum (one reason why I have trouble taking too seriously the system in general).

It's good to "compete" and have fun with others with some healthy bragging and teasing. But what matters if bringing Elemental into the spotlight. Who cares if they ones who do it have been here since day 1 or since yesterday? My desired expansion packS need funding so go out there and convert the masses!!!!}:)

Reply #24 from Elemental Forums Top

I want my GUN! dammit. Every other Army I ever joined, I got a friggin GUN! ;)

How about getting points based by Percentage of your Stardock Membership #. with the smaller the # getting a better precentage.

hehehehe

Reply #25 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Kestral2040, reply 20



Quoting Raven X,
reply 17
I think people should get points for Forums Activity as well. Even if it's only 1 point per post. Not to mention I was plugging Elemental on Gamespot and a few other sites way before the "Elemental Army" started, and I don't seem to be able to go back and get "retroactive points" for things I did months ago.

Honestly, I'm concerned with "Winning". I already bought and paid for my copy and the upgrade to limited edition. Having a spare would be cool, but it's not the end of the world if I don't win.

I do how-ever think it's quite....annoying...that new users and people who barely ever post anything have made it to "elite" or "expert" while some of our Most Active Forum Members like Wintersong, Me, Tormy-, and a few others have no rank at all. Makes it feel kinda cheap to me...sorry.


well its not really for showing who is the most die hard fan of Elemental period...  the focus is to help get the word out, we already do have a vibrant community here.  The things you posted on Gamespot should have gotten you points, I will look into what happened with that.  Also I think karma is a better indicator of most active community members (esp on the forums themselves).  

 

edit: for the email questions, the problem is almost assuredly that your friend used a different email account to sign up then you sent the email to.

There was a word left out of my original reply there. The first sentence of the second paragraph should have said "Honestly, I'm Not concerned with "Winning". Just by me accidentally leaving out that one word it threw off the "meaning" of my whole post. Sorry about that...see, that's why they call it "dope"..lol. My bad.

I really don't want to "Win" the contest. I'd rather the winners be actual people who want the game but can't afford it. I already bought and paid for my copy, plus the upgrade to limited. I don't need another one just to sit around and collect dust. Give it to someone who "needs" it. I just don't like "looking like a Recruit" as it were..lol.

I PM'd you the links to my comments on Gamespot regarding Elemental. Hope that helps some. :)

I would also have to agree with the "Karma" statement, though, a lot of people make great posts on various parts of the forums and get no karma for them, not to mention karma is bugged half the time :P , still, I agree with what you meant there.

Quoting Gwakamoli, reply 19

i can understand that sentiment, though you're going to have a huge advantage over us come release for beta 2 in that you already understand the game and will be able to start having some awesome discussions about it, while others like myself are going to need to learn about the game before we can have the same level of input as you (by such time i expect to be left in the dust:P)

That's true to a point I'd agree. Come Beta 2 though half the rules will change, and then change again by Beta 3. Any gameplay strategies we learn now probably won't be valid in a few more weeks. On that aspect you're just as "up to speed" as we are more or less. We're all learning as we go :)