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The Kingdoms vs. The Empires

The Kingdoms vs. The Empires

BG22_Fire For beta testers, only the Kingdoms have been exposed.  The Kingdoms play much like a traditional 4X game.  You build city improvements to get benefits to your city. You train up soldiers hoping they’ll get better and better. It is a civilization based on laws and rules.

The Empire has taken a different path…

In War

Their soldiers don’t gain experience. Such a concept of thinking about individual soldiers is anathema to the Empire.

As such, there is no such thing as a veteran Imperial soldier. However, they can train up special, powerful units (Guardians, Enforcers, and Sions).  These powerful individuals will routinely demonstrate the inherent flaw in trying to train groups of soldiers to be more effective. Greatness is born. Not learned.

In Peace

There is no tradition of civics in the Empire. Moreover, the concept of bee keeping or fruit orchard harvesting and what not is completely foreign. The Empire looks at the Kingdoms with absolute contempt that they would waste time harvesting such things.

Of course, it also means the Empires can harvest fewer special resources in the world. To make up for this, the Empire can build hog farms adjacent to their farms. That’s real food. Pathetic Kingdoms.

The Empire also scoffs at the Civics concepts of markets. Deals are made on the basis of leverage alone. Instead of relying on institutions, the Empire relies on leaders of capitalism to deal with it. Players can build Financiers (until we have a better name, feel free to suggest a better one) who enhance the city’s money making.

Similarly, there is no formal education system in the Empire. Schools? Universities? These concepts are worthless. The Kingdoms foolishly entrust their futures to special interests. In the Empire, players can create Sage units who can be sent where they are needed to boost knowledge production.

There are no pubs in the Empire. No Inns.  Such decadence is forbidden. Prestige is generated by showing respect to those who have seized power such as statues to great figures such as Lord Kir-Tion and Curgen the Dred’nir.

In Magic

Again, letting something as important as magic be taught by a special interest is another weakness of the Kingdom that the Empire has no part of. The Empire instead has its own magic commissars – the Lore masters who study the ancient texts to discover the correct spells needed to dominate the world. These units can be built and sent where needed.

Adventuring? I don’t think so

The Kingdoms have an entire knowledge field called “Adventuring”. There is no such concept in The Empire. Adventuring implies a light hearted search for excitement. This is why the Empire has dominated the world, it has no use for pointless wandering.

The Empires focus on Domination. Finding and re-learning knowledge scattered throughout the world. 

The Kingdoms, dominated by cowardly men, like to stay in their schools and temples. The Empire, dominated by the races of the Fallen and the lone race of men with the strength to embrace the philosophy of the Empires (Kraxis) gain knowledge and strength from going out into the world and seizing it from others. Dangerous places have great knowledge and the Empire is particularly skilled in finding that knowledge.

The Empire will rule

The fact is, the Empires are the dominant form of social organization in the world. The Kingdoms, with their weak, so-called concepts of liberty, social contracts and obsession with the rights of individuals is an absurd, artificial creation that violates the laws of nature.

361,196 views 211 replies
Reply #51 Top

Oh I do want to try these guys out! I do like Guildsmen... They have a tech tree called Avarice "greed." ^_^

Reply #52 Top

Guildsmen of Coin, Purveyors of Coin, Purveyors of Purse ... Executors, Executives, Mercantile Arbiters ... Merchant Kings, Trade Kings, Bankers, Proletariat ...

Reply #53 Top

I'd like to suggest Guildmasters instead of Guildsmen. Guildsmen sounds far too civil for the Empire. ;P

Reply #54 Top

The Empire also scoffs at the Civics concepts of markets. Deals are made on the basis of leverage alone. Instead of relying on institutions, the Empire relies on leaders of capitalism to deal with it. Players can build Financiers (until we have a better name, feel free to suggest a better one) who enhance the city’s money making.

I suggest "Greenspanbernankes". }:)

 

Also instead of pig farms...human farms? They raise humans as a food source. This could also add another element (PUN!) to the game - if you raid their farms the humans join your population/armies, but likewise the Empire factions can raid the human settlements and take captives for livestock. Of course, that might bump you up to a "Mature" rating from the ESRB, and we don't want that....

Reply #55 Top

Marketeers, Profiteers, Guildmasters = Financiers

Reply #56 Top

Oh this sounds very good.

I especially like the special units vs experienced units idea. Might need some form of population bonus, to promote the 'Cannon fodder' approach, but then i suppose that could come down to race bonuses.

Reply #57 Top

Well, I was pretty sure it was the Humans that had higher pop-growth rates ... its simply that there are MORE living fallen at the beginning of the game than humans ... eh?

In any event, truly great idea

 

I really like that, even more than a basic play style ... there is actually a visible reason to have a mass horde of soldiers vs highly trained and leveled elites backed by a mass of weakling peasants.

Reply #58 Top

I like Vizir or Vizier.  Definition - A councilor of state commonly associated with ancient eastern money lenders. (Generally very bad people) 

Reply #59 Top

Not pigs, SWINE!  :P

 

So judging on Frogboy's explanation then if my empire is about to be successfully invaded then I could rush an exodus for my ahem imperial 'specialists' ftw.  This mechanic could lead to some interesting gameplay such as quickly shifting strategies from fast rusher to big boomer to hard techer by a simple rearranging of minions.

Oh and guildsmen sounds kinda kingdomish.

Reply #60 Top

Meat farms has promise. :)

Reply #61 Top

I think the word your looking for is "Baron" FrogBoy.

Reply #62 Top

Assuming the currency is 'Gildar' for the Empire as well, perhaps something around this.

Gildaran, Gildaram, Gildar Master, Gildar Overlord, etc etc.

Of course, if the currency has an entirely different name for the Empire side, replace these with the appropriate currency name. ;)

Reply #63 Top

I like Vizier for the Empire money guy. Alternative could be Marketeer.

Reply #64 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 60
Meat farms has promise.

How about frog farms where we harvest frogs? No offense Frogboy.  ;)

 

 

The Empire's philosophy (vs. that of the kingdoms) is sounding really good. As long as we get around some of the potential problems people were bringing up, it should be good.

Reply #65 Top

What happens when a empire conquers a kingdom city? And vice-versa?

Reply #66 Top

This developer journal is obviously from the view of a being from within of the Empire races.... otherwise Frogboy highly favors Empire.  :P

 I believe having Empire without adventuring and experience is a method of providing an option so gamers can play with less micro-management.  Just a theory.

Reply #67 Top

I am planning a lite mod for the Empire as soon as this baby releases. Basically I want a Russian Empire feel to my Empire. With That in mind, I think you have already hit some of the key points of creating an evil empire. Conquest, Domination of Indigenous peoples, Emphasizing classes and creating elite soldiers via breeding rather than veteracy.

One thing I think is really important is creating terms like Russification to replace cultural domination. Instead of factor one could say Boyar. I would also hope there is room for Boyars and Ministers to be attached to the dynastic system on the Empire side.

Wouldn't that create a unique classist system of not only rule, but of wealth and knowledge? Isn't that how it played out in real life?

Your thoughts?

Reply #69 Top

 

Lord Exchequer or Lord of the Exchequer...

There are lots of good old english words if people only knew their entomology...

Darvroth

Reply #70 Top

The name needs to be both elegant and powerful, and ever so slightly sinister, IMO. Such as my earlier names do not fit the idea, so.

Overseer

Consul

Custodian (Keep in mind, in a 'medieval' setting, custodians helped run kingdoms, not so much of the mopping floors)

Adviser (Though I imagine this is already in place somewhere else in the game)

Vizier

 

Reply #71 Top

Yep, I still prefer Vizier

Reply #72 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 20
I like that. Guildsmen. I also like Magistrate or something too.

How about Magnate?

–noun
1.
a person of great influence, importance, or standing in a particular enterprise, field of business, etc.: a railroad magnate.

Reply #74 Top

In War
Their soldiers don’t gain experience. Such a concept of thinking about individual soldiers is anathema to the Empire.
As such, there is no such thing as a veteran Imperial soldier. However, they can train up special, powerful units (Guardians, Enforcers, and Sions).  These powerful individuals will routinely demonstrate the inherent flaw in trying to train groups of soldiers to be more effective. Greatness is born. Not learned.

Hmmmm not too happy with this concept. Every Empire in Human history had its veteran (elite) units. From Rome to Great Britain, and more recently the declining Empire of the USA has its 'elite' veteran units. I see you are suggesting that 'special units' will be in, but common units dont gain experience? Well thats plain wrong!

Combat always gives experience, whether your a Soldier of a kingdom or a very very small component of the Imperial machine.

It sounds to me as though you are shoe-horning in a game balance... and it doesn't quite fit.

Reply #75 Top

Often said elite were drawn from the upper ranks of society.

One perspective is that it is not that the Fallen units don't get "better" at what they do, it is that the Empire does not care. "The old ways are best. Anyone that becomes Great was always Great - they were born that way though we may not have realized it until just now."