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People of Elemental: the Empires

People of Elemental: the Empires

The Empires of the East are dominated by races of beings collectively known as “The Fallen”. These are beings that bred by the Titans of old to be better than the mortal men and dragons and other “natural” creatures of the world.

There are lots of Fallen creatures in the world. The Empires are led by beings that are both sentient and social (dragons, are sentient but are solitary).

The Empires believe in the justice of raw strength and strive to increase their power.

 

The Empires of the Fallen

 

 

 F_Wizard_F[3]
The Empire of Umber (Urxen sometimes called “Goblins” in Common).[more]

 

F_Resolin_M[4]
The Empire of Resoln (“Wraiths” in the common tongue).

 

F_Warrior_F[3] 
The Empire of Yithril (“Trogs” in the common tongue)

 

 

 

 

F_DragonWarrior_M[3]
The Empire of Magnar (“Magnars” in common tongue, sometimes called “Demon Elves”).

 

 image
The Empire of Kraxis (“Krax” in common tongue, sometimes called “Blood Traitors”). They are the race of men who found themselves on the eastern side of the chasm after the cataclysm.

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Reply #76 Top

Sounds like a hodge podge of Tolkien and Dragonlance. Stardock doesn't have any creative writers?

^^ There's always one in every crowd.

AW SNAP! Geddit? Because Frogboy wrote all of the stuff?

 

In all seriousness, all of those races are evil sexy.

Reply #77 Top

Quoting docbates7, reply 50

What I am most concerned about is not that the concept art is crap (actually far from it. I think the concept art looks pretty badass and keeping with the general theme of the game).  Rather, what really concerns me is for SD to avoid the "tin-like" story experience that plauged GalCiv.  I was incredibly excited when the devs stated that they aren't just going to be cut/pasting from the previous installments of these games/overall genre (ala MoM, Tolkien, Terry Brooks, DnD [that's Dungeons and Dragons] et. al). What I am most upset about is that the devs have stated that they want to make a compelling new story and I'm just not feeling it.  What's so different about saying that the "goblins" aren't natural versus I am playing with goblins? nothing really except some backstory.  Yes, it might work and I certainly hope it does.  At first blush, however, I am not seeing how Elemental is grabbing my interest from the get go.  Perhaps that it just feels like they are doing the same stuff but using some odd justification for getting there (well the titans made the goblins). 

This can be fixed with some game mechanics that create an actual difference between Kingdoms and Empires; and that actually make Empires "unnaturals" have some trully unatural quality other than simply starting with a Death Magic Book. Whooptido, Mr. Bluebird is sitting on my shoulder.  Give me an in game consequence for being unatural that will pervade my choices, make me truly understand that I am not truly in sync with the world.  This is of particular interest with the Easterlings...errrr Men on the eastern side of the Chasm.  If they come with Oiliphants I'll barf.

I don't know exactly what you want. Ooze people? Dragon people? Rock people?

The reason why people use classic races is that people already have a degree of familiarity with that race. In my experience the exoticism of races don't really add anything to the story. If anything, they detract from it. I really would have just been happy with *just* human factions in a fantasy world. That would be original.

All fantasy games essentially have basically the same backstory. I'm fine with that, because the backstory merely serves as a context for the story to come. I'd much prefer fantasies to keep the creation myths at a minimum, or better make them vague and contradictory. There's simply no good mythological background, really, that hasn't been used before.

To me, the meat of the story is not the originality, it's motivations, neuroses, non-mythological history, sociological and psychological factors.

Reply #78 Top

I'd much prefer fantasies to keep the creation myths at a minimum, or better make them vague and contradictory.

Damn right! I hate how the first thing about a world is how it was created by a tear drop from a crying ellephant held in space by the mistress of magic that started out as a cloud of godlike gas.

 

I just want some refrence or lore in the world that explains that "Our salvation comes from the first, the One. The joyus ellephant of creation!"

Reply #79 Top

I am going to play the Krax first simply because it looks like that guy is using a creative pose to give someone the finger. :thumbsup:  

Reply #80 Top

Quoting Aractain, reply 78
I just want some refrence or lore in the world that explains that "Our salvation comes from the first, the One. The joyus ellephant of creation!"

Arhhhh a fellow Elephantian, and I thought I was the only one. Rumour has it we are the slowest growing religion in the world. :(

Reply #81 Top

I'd much prefer fantasies to keep the creation myths at a minimum, or better make them vague and contradictory.

The only time I want creation myths minimized is when the game world is as narratively weak as GalCiv or Starcraft. The thing that has me starting to lower my expectations for the Elemental story is that in a fantasy setting, I want mysterious foundations for the world. As in permanently un-knowable from the player POV; woven into the guts of the code, but never set out in full detail in the UI or spin-off materials.

Vague and contradictory creation myths are a great way to build that sort of mystery into the environment, but Brad's a software designer and competitive gamer, and those folks tend to like complete, 'logically consistent' systems. It's starting to look a bit like the magic in Elemental is really just super-science-fiction with pre-industrial decorations. More like a Michael Moorcock End of Time story than, say, George Martin's A Game of Thrones.

Reply #82 Top

Quoting cephalo, reply 73
In my opinion there is nothing wrong with dark scary evil empires vs. shining light good kingoms. I think that if you try to get away from that it's clunky. Fall from Heaven allows this, and the result is that you have civs going completely against their nature and avoiding their strategic strengths. It's one thing when you allow the player to turn a race of vampires towards serving the common good, but if the AI does it things get really goofy.
A big problem there is that it implies all the Kingdoms should just get along, and it becomes a two-team campaign (Unless Saruman is fighting Sauron is fighting the Haradrim, in which case they'll all probably be smashed by a combined front).  That makes politics either boring or nonsensical (like when the pacifist Torians started threatening my noble Altarians for money in GalCiv 2).  The AI civilizations would still be following their character, that character just wouldn't be as clear-cut as "drive back the forces of darkness" versus "bring ruin to the free world".

Reply #83 Top

It kind of defeats the point of having multiple races in each faction if all of the Empire boils down to "evil". They're probably not all evil (or at least have substantially varying degrees of evil), just like I doubt all the Kingdoms are universally "good".

Reply #84 Top

If all Kingdoms are permanently friendly with each other, and all Empires are as well, I would consider that a disastrous design decision (speaking for the sandbox mode here, not the campaign).  Having the sandbox mode be "two team" would completely ruin the game for me.  I find it highly unlikely that'll be the case.  In the campaign, possibly, as it's telling a story, but not in sandbox mode.

There's no reason two "good" races can't go to war with each other over political circumstances, resources, etc.  Obviously two "evil" races can basically do whatever they want to each other. ;)

 

Reply #85 Top

Quoting NoobFukaire, reply 2
Sounds like a hodge podge of Tolkien and Dragonlance. Stardock doesn't have any creative writers?
Ignorant troll is ignorant and a fuggly troll.

Reply #86 Top

Some comments on the faction pics and the little we know about the factions. (NB no comments are meant to flame anyone, they are just a point of view.)

First, the art. Not bad at all, some of them are quite good. On the plus: the Mucha inspiration, the original style.

On the minus side: some of the weapons are a bit too big, it takes away from the realism but most of all from the "class". Please don't fall into the Warhammer trap to think that what is vulgar and exagerrated is something to strive for. Monsters should be grotesque yes, but it can still be done with feeling, class and style. Example: a wizard's wand's power is not linked to its size (no pun intended :thumbsup: )  

Another weak point seems to be the faces: some of them look too "cartoonish" or "painted", I don't feel inspired by the Trogs for example although they should have the potential to be really cool.  

Of the Empire pictures I definitely prefer the last one, Kraxis (beatiful gold on his mantle and armour). But I do note that he looks (not just inspired by, but really looks) like an arab/persian, so I hope you are not putting this in as the one evil, "blood traitor" human race while the Kingdoms will be all filled with fairskinned blonds (of European/American looks ...). Skimming over the Kingdom pics it actually looks like this could be the case. It's not about striving for PC 100%, but this one just seemed to be so evident, but I wait until we've seen more before complaining at all.
  
On the factions:

It is a surprise to see that elves, dwarves etc are now included so evidently this way "through the backdoor" by saying they are really human, but ... I guess it's a compromise that should work for most people, maybe even a genius stroke considering the differing views on the subject.

But there is one big question mark on the factions (both kingdoms and empires). Are we really going to get something that feels inspiring and is also memorable? It's too early to say with the little we know, but for me the alarms are definitely ringing. Elemental should be THE fantasy strategy game to take over from the best older titles like MoM, AoWSM and Dominions 3. So, let's just start to make a quick comparison with what Dominions 3 has to offer as Factions (called Nations in D3).

In D3 we have 50 playable Nations! In EWoM 10. This means that indeed the faction customisation will need to be really good or EWoM will fall short on this point.
     
But most of all, the Factions in EWoM seem to be a bit generic. A qualified guess for the Kingdoms (without knowing much more than the pics) would be that something like the following basic ideas could be behind each faction:
1. classical western medieval society lead by white wizard (paridens), 2. warriors/knights (Altar), 3. Diplomats (Capitar), 4. dwarves (ironeers), 5. wood elves (Tarth).

I hope you can prove me wrong but it could be rather difficult to make something very inspiring and memorable out of just "diplomats", "warriors" etc ... True, we wait for more info, but let's just make a small comparison with D3 again. I only take the factions/nations starting with first letter in the alphabet (!) so these are not picked out because they are more interesting and colourful than the others:
    
Abysia: devil-worshippers
(burning braziers fed with still beating hearts ...) combined with some Middle Eastern concepts

Agartha: dying race of pale, cave-dwelling humanoids desperately mummifying their ancestors in wide, opulent halls.

Arcoscephale: ancient Greek City States and Hellas (classical legendary beasts, astrologers, Alexander the Great).

Atlantis: a nation of (Lovecraftian) Deep Ones native to the depths (krakens ...).

 - That is less than a line to give the flavour of each (and I'm no expert on them either).
 
Do you see the difference? What variety, such good and colourful and fantastical concepts, taking inspiration from so varied sources but still working together.

I hope EWoM can live up to such a high standard, because this is one of the very foundations for the game. Modding is not an excuse for a game lacking inspiring and well thought-out factions. I'm not complaining here, we know too little yet, but we would really appreciate to know some more on the inspiration and ideas behind the factions to see if they "feel right". No number of cool spells can make up for a missing good basic concept.


So let's hope that Umber and Altar and Capitar and Resoln and all you have come up with will inspire us as much as Atlantis can with a few words!

Reply #87 Top

I don't really think it's fair to be comparing EWOM to D3.  Sure, D3 has a lot of races, and a dizzying variety of units within those races.  But most of them also look like this:

Nice enough, but by no means to the graphical style which EWOM is shooting for.  Quality is usually gained at the sacrifice of quantity, and vice versa.  But EWOM has something going for it, in that respect, which is identical in philosophy to D3:  moddability!  Those who want a greater diversity of races can simply mod them in.  And I'm sure they will.  In that happy medium, everyone should be satisfied.

Reply #88 Top

The number of factions couldn't be the same as in D3. Isn't D3 in 2D? Last time I checked, 2D art is faster and cheaper. (even if you are a pixel artist)

The flavor of the factions in D3 is constricted by any kind of lore/campaign? Elemental's faction should try to strive for variety and interesting options but working withint the self imposed limits. I think it's possibe to achieve that but more time will be needed as Stardock polishes it (and more parts are added to the beta and users can provide feedback). That their level of "awe" reaches the same as otehr factions of otehrs games, that is something that I don't know and that would be dependant of point of view. (That Atlantis doesn't sound very... original? It's just Cthulhu*)

* said by someone who hasn't played the game so forgive me if that faction is something more than what I understood of it. Just putting an example of "point of view".

Reply #89 Top

Quoting Aractain, reply 78

I'd much prefer fantasies to keep the creation myths at a minimum, or better make them vague and contradictory.
Damn right! I hate how the first thing about a world is how it was created by a tear drop from a crying ellephant held in space by the mistress of magic that started out as a cloud of godlike gas.

I just want some refrence or lore in the world that explains that "Our salvation comes from the first, the One. The joyus ellephant of creation!"

Troof! I'm more interested in the stories that come out of playing big open-ended games, not the ones that go into them. ;P

Reply #90 Top

As intrigued as I am by the history of Kraxis, I think I'll be playing them mainly because the sovereign resembles Ming the Merciless.

Reply #91 Top

Of the Empire pictures I definitely prefer the last one, Kraxis (beatiful gold on his mantle and armour). But I do note that he looks (not just inspired by, but really looks) like an arab/persian, so I hope you are not putting this in as the one evil, "blood traitor" human race while the Kingdoms will be all filled with fairskinned blonds (of European/American looks ...). Skimming over the Kingdom pics it actually looks like this could be the case. It's not about striving for PC 100%, but this one just seemed to be so evident, but I wait until we've seen more before complaining at all.
Hmm.... didn't notice that but now it seems so obvious....... I have a rather jaundiced outlook towards political correcness, but I've noticed the "Natural" factions are ALL caucasian....

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Reply #92 Top

I don't see any real Arab/Persian link.  He may be swarthy-skinned, sure, but he's also largely in shadow, which adds to the 'dark' nature of this very menacing-looking Kraxian.  Arab/Persian/etc. was not the first thing to pop into my head. 'This guy looks like one mean mutha trucker' was.

Reply #93 Top

Quoting Wintersong, reply 88
The number of factions couldn't be the same as in D3. Isn't D3 in 2D? Last time I checked, 2D art is faster and cheaper. (even if you are a pixel artist)

True, but it's a lot easier to create 2d sprites/gfx. Not that I am against anything better/3d [like the Elemental engine..]

All I am saying is: I surely won't be able to create 3d creature models for Elemental...:S It would be awesome if we would have a creature creator like the one in Spore. :-"

Reply #94 Top

Umber look cool. Hoping they have an easier time getting hold of Umderdroths  than the other factions:grin:

Reply #96 Top

Showed this to a friend and his question made me speechless.  "Why is it fantasy worlds have every creature of the night but no black people like me?"

Reply #97 Top

I don't think race really plays into it one way or another.  Just because a character is not black does not mean they're Caucasian.  Or Asian.  Or Arabic.  Or any other racial/ethnic stereotype.

Reply #98 Top

Come to think of it, why are all the sentient Fallen shades of ~blue? It'd be as nice to see some variation in the skin tones of the Fallen as it would be to see in those of the humans.

Reply #99 Top

I don't think race really plays into it one way or another. Just because a character is not black does not mean they're Caucasian. Or Asian. Or Arabic. Or any other racial/ethnic stereotype.
But they aren't Asian or Arabic or any other ethnic subtype. They look like me! I don't really care too much about it, and I'm not asking for a Rainbow Coalition here, but it does get rather boring after a while and just seems a wee bit odd. From my own forays into development I understand that devs usually default to creating characters with their own racial/ethinic/socioeconomic background as a matter of habit and creative convenience, but the monochromaticness makes the world in here just that little bit duller.

Reply #100 Top

My Polar Faction of ebony skinned people is going to rock. My Desert Faction of fair skinned people is going to rock too.

And smurfs while rule them all!!!