feline - personally i accept the existence of god as an observed fact. i also realize that humans are not god. since human language is understandable by humans, any true attempt to describe god (beyond human) in human language is bound to fail.

Humans as an individual are not god but life as a whole is and that, as a fact, will not fail. Now one may "fail" to see this but as a constant it is true. What exactly is "human" language? Can we not communicate without words? Can we not express an emotion or concept just by expression alone? Anyone that has an animal can testify to that statement. Can one understand "dog"? Can a dog not express its need to go outside or it's feelings of love/compassion with just a gesture or motion? It is a learned communication just as what life truly is. Life is a learned communication based on knowledge. As a whole in everything we do we are learning and will always learn. But it is what we chose to learn that enlightens us.

feline - so why get so excited by the exact wording? cannot people concentrate more on the message than the messenger?

You have hit it right on the nose. It is the message that one must "know". It is good to have beliefs but unless you know what you believe it is just a theory. Sad to say, most people are just "lemmings" (for the most known analogy). They except what others tell them and just carry on with their lives.

feline - when the King James bible came out, it was burnt as heresy. and now it is hailed as the one and true bible.

The original scripts that the bible was based upon were written in metaphors. It was written this way to separate the sheep from the shepherds so to speak. If the manuscripts were the actual truth then why did it need to be rewritten?

Interesting though that only a handful of people actually know how to speak ancient Hebrew and can actually read them... but when was the last time someone actually released those manuscripts as individual readings? Hmmm, I wonder why that might be. And as another question to ponder, why do you think they left out the other manuscripts from the Bible?

I respect what everyone has written here. What I write is all IMMHO of course.

All this Bible talk, Is making me sooo...
Hot!

What is really entertaining (but kind of impossible if you grew up learning from a church) is to read the bible as just a piece of literature. I, personally, have only been to "church" a few times in my life. But, I have read most of the bible. It is stories of life. There are lessons to be learned, and different ways of interpreting those stories (which is really what makes christian religions different from eachother). But, most literature does have truths held within them and give examples of right and wrong.

For me, I believe that there was a creator. I can not label this creator, because I don't know what it is. Because I have not attended church, I can not relate to using the bible for anything more than it is- a very famous piece of literature.

Now, before anyone starts flaming me, or thinking that I am an athiest, or against religion- that's not the case. I think that churches are good, for some people. Some people need that faith to fall back on. I believe that there was a creator, but unlike organized religious beliefs, I do not label that creator. I don't believe that any religion is wrong, as long as the person involved in it truly believes in it. I am also not a hyprocrite. I did not get married in a church, I don't try to get people to "see my way", and I did not have my daughter baptized. If she, however, decides to go to church, and get baptized when she can decide for herself, I will totally support her. Religion is personal. To ever criticize or fight with somebody about religion never produces anything good. I am actually lucky. Since I do not have one "god" that I believe in, I can openly learn about different religions with an open mind. It is truly fasinating.

Here is an interesting thought of mine on Heaven, hell and death. First of all: Death. Anyone here ever been put out for an operation? While you're out, there is nothing. You do not exist. That is death. Heaven and Hell: Yes, there is heaven and hell, but not as people Believe it is. You live it, it is here every day on earth. You see your new born baby for the first time- that is heaven. Your family dog dies- that is hell. It is constant. It is life. This is all IMHO. Not saying any of this to try and change anyones beliefs, or to pick a fight with anyone, it's just another view point with ideas to ponder.

oh brother here we go, cant help myself...

take a "Good" look at the Earth, mountains, beaches n the depths of the oceans, look up at the stars n the moon then listen to your heart.

you know there IS a loving God that made that for you!

or does your heart say it's all from a bang? or that you are from the monkeys you go and visit at the zoos today?

if so your brain has not evolved much from the monkey stages... hehe

/me runs off to DA for cover...

doreen won't stay gone long..

That's indeed one poetic way to look at things. I admire your ability to believe that, sure makes things a lot easier.
But I can't... My mind can't understand the concept of an eternal being that created all that.
I could turn it around, Doreen:
take a good look at the Earth, the mountains, the depths of the oceans and its colorful fishes, at the beautiful flowers and butterflies, look at the stars, the moon and the sun. How can one person have made all that? And what did he make it with?
I can't believe in Magic. My mind can't accept that things can be created with the strike of a magic wand.
But that's just me. I guess I like to complicate things. Some things should not be analysed, but should simply be looked at for what they are. The moon has lost a lot of its magic since mankind has stepped on it.
Yes, Doreen, you are lucky and I envy you. And that's why we love you.

paxx - The moon has lost a lot of its magic since mankind has stepped on it.

Ever read up on the motivation behind the movie Caperacorn One? Also has anyone looked into why the Russians never went to the moon or why we haven't been back since? Interesting stuff indeed.

Paxx it is called "Faith" not "Facts"
God is Timeless, have you ever figured out how "Time" itself exist??? no but surely you know time does exist
(just look at the clock though you cannot really explain that).


prob is w/ me the more I hear God speak to me when I run to the quiet places such as the Beach or Mountains or look up at the stars alone, the more I know how wretched I really am...

trying to go be w/ him is like walking on a tight rope w/ a balancing beam, each day I get on the rope and fall off after the first step, I've only gone 3 steps so far in my life! and I already feel I ain't gonna make it to his house to go be with him...

Shut up Kenray! hehe

Doreen - and I already feel I ain't gonna make it to his house to go be with him...

A question to ask: If God is all knowing and all seeing then he already knows and has seen where you will end up. So isn't it possible that what you are doing is what you should be doing at this time in your life? As it pertains to the Christian faith, Do you actually have freewill or are you just being controlled into believing that your will is your own and that if you do not follow what they say to be the rightious path that you will "burn" forever?

Just a question, nothing more.

Wow, this thread became busy in a real hurry.

I'm skipping many messages...

But I would like to have people look from the other side. Lets say you, as a Christian, go visit another site and they have a 'Muslim' section and no other religious connotations on their site. I would probably first assume that the admin of the website is of Muslim faith, but I would not start complaining to him about him about his choice of sections. I would accept his faith and his decision to profess it. And if the site was useful to me, I would continue to visit the site without hesitation.

I would guess (and pray) that most people would probably have a similar view as I do with the above scenario.

But why is it, that Christians do not get the same respect!? If you are outgoing about your Christian faith you are almost instantly persecuted. (I believe Jesus did fortell of the persecutions of Christians)

So if I was to take an adimant stance on keeping a Christian section would You (the general public) really have a problem with it? and why?

Philosophically, maybe it is somewhat of an imbedded backlash against the many years that the Christians persecuted and destroyed every other religion without hesitation.

Isn't it natural for a living creature to move/pull away from things that are trying to harm/intrude upon them in some form or another? In this case the many years the Christians have tried to control and suppress that which is not like them.

Just a thought.

I think you hit the nail right on the head, Third Eye. You have Fundie Christians going around who claim they are unwilling to compromise their beliefs...which is all fine and good until their beliefs start intruding on the beliefs of others.

Even in small issues, bringing the prayer in school topic back up...you see a lot of Christians pushing for this, but many get a holier than thou attitude the moment someone mentions also allowing Muslim or Pagan prayers, as well... Certainly not all Christians are like this but those that feel they are better and more deserving than everyone else is just sad.

...and I'm certainly not of the Christian faith myself but I also can't imagine belonging to any faith where you go around feeling how 'wretched' you are all the time because you can't live up to some nebulous standard... Rather reminds me of how rulers have used religion in the past to keep the 'common people' in line.

As far as the site with the Muslim section goes... If I was a regular visitor, I'd probably ask them if they could make room for other beliefs, as well. If they couldn't, and I had something of a religious nature to upload I'd move along to another site. I would "accept his faith and decision to profess it" but I would also realize that it wasn't a site for the general public either.

T,

if, say, LOS had a cubset under their coolplayer section for "muslim" and no other subsets for religion, you can bet yoru bottom dollar that i would start a "meditation on favoritsm" over there.

same goes if Deviant Art had a "Caucasian" section.
or if skinbase had a "heterosexual" subset.

I woudl need ot meditate on that every it as much as i need to meditate on this here.

the subject of this thread is not religion, the subject of the thread is "Favoritism".

hehe Third Eye that is a good question there...

can you re-ask me that one next month? lemme see where at I'm then... hehe

T-man,

I think that everyone has the right to believe and not to believe in (a) God. I am an atheist, but do respect people who do believe in (a) God. By adding just a Christian section you would not respect what other people believe or do not believe or even might disapprove. However, the section was there before I saw this thread and I didn't care because nothing on this sites breaths a negative atmosphere. On the other side such a section is easy for me to handle. I can just skip the section if I want to.

Where at I'm then = where I'm at then

Jafo stay away from me...
hehe

T-Man you already know the answer

i think, in principle, favoritism towards (or against) any specific subset of people who might otherwise be interested in the topic of the site is ok.

i also think it would be 'ok' for someone to sell shoes with spikes on the inside, as long as they let you know that before you bought them.

both purveyors may wish to brace themselves for a drop in interest..

i -really- do believe in free speech. the more free people are with their speech, the more likely they are to ignore mark twain's advice.. you know, 'open their mouth and remove all doubt?'

a site such as this with the vast frequenters from everywhere, surely you would catch "Hell" the rest of the days remaining for this site, if it was NOT changed to "Religion" rather than "Christian"

I still find it odd that one religion can consider itself right and others wrong. But that aside.

If this site had just a christian section, I would not mind. It would be the admin's loss in that case, but it would not affect me. Ofcourse, the correct thing to do would be either to add sections for every religion out there or just name it "religion", but personally it would not matter to me. After all, it is a) not my site, and b) not important to me.

Ofcourse, my antisocial side would take over and poke fun at the christians, ah well, the flesh is weak.

/me pokes at Doreen

Crae, I agree. You can choose which religion (or none at all) is right for you personally but when some go around saying "I'm right and you're all wrong" it's just silly. ...or the variation on a theme is people who will defend their religion with things like "You just don't want to hear it or see it because you know it's the truth."

On the other hand. I've seen some extremists who say things like "You're NOT Christian" when what they really mean is "You should have no rights".

What I find interesting is how there can be so many different variations of religions from one book, but yet it is supposedly the book that speaks the actual truth. I guess it is all in how you interpret something.

Another thing, who is to say, with all of the religions in the world, that one is right or wrong? I mean if you think about it, by far "Christianity" has to be one of the newest religions out there.

Not only is Christianity one of the newer religions but it also borrows quite a lot from other, older religions. Many Celtic gods are known as Saints under the umbrella of Christianity, too, such as the Celtic/Irish goddess Brighid being known as St. Bridget. Whenever the church could not turn the general public away from a belief or eradicate it entirely, they would 'assimilate' it into their own belief systems, often with little modification. All this trickled down through the ages so that now you have many people following pagan ways under the guise of christianity.

"Every religion comes down to 2 things. What is right and what is wrong. But ultimately who are we to tell another what is right or wrong for them?"

Third Eye - its done all the time. McVeigh died because we all agree that what he did was wrong, unless you feel his execution was just another example of a senseless persecution of his equally valid viewpoint.