Doreen> Staying on the path is easy, just keep moving forward! Ofcourse, I'm the person to take every narrow twist and turn there is, so you won't find me on that path.

Doreen, if the site was publicly advertised as a Christian site, then I'd agree with you. If this was "Catholic Wincutomize" then I'd say fine, since people coming here would know by coming here that it was a site targeting only catholic people (I say "catholic, not "christian" because even the christian faith has different flavours).
But since it's not the case, and since this site welcomes people from all faiths, ages and races, no one should be advantaged before another one. For the same reason, you could not put a "Caucasian" section without adding the other races, not could you put a "16-25 years old" sectin without adding the other ages as well.

Kenray> That's because you live in the West. I bet those pictures do exist... albeit to a lesser account. Most of the rest of the world still lives in medieval conditions, so I don't expect much freedom of expression there.

Kenray, craeonics, ever heard of a novel titled "The Satanic Verses", by Salman Rushdie?
It caused quite a stir in the Islamic world, to say the least...

again

this was my problem...
my prob was seeing T-Man being pushed into a corner and I hate seeing ppl be "run out" of their faith...

as for me crae I'm not walkin on that path and I know it right now...
and it ain't as easy as "keep moving forward"

Funny my father is atheist (sp?)
and he still "made" my brother get married in a Church, Big Church wedding, what is that?

go figure

Doreen, it's just tradition.
Although I don't believe in God, I still got my son baptised, and my second son (dued to show his face next week!! yeahh!) will also be baptised. I know I don't make sense, but it's for the ceremonial, the tradition... I can't welcome my children into this world by just filling out a government form...
And besides, I'm not a convinced athiest. I just don't THINK God exists, but I could be wrong.

hehe another one going through the "tradition" thing, hehe

well paxxy "I" know there is a God, I just am a very disobedient daughter to my Heavenly Father and don't know if I'm gonna make it to go be with him someday.

I'm so happy to hear the baby is coming so soon! wow how the time passed! glad she is doing well

I'm in total agreement with you paxx... If you host a public site and are attempting to provide a community for everyone then personal beliefs must remain just that, personal. That's the price you pay for having a site targeted at the general public. Otherwise, you should rename the site to "The straight, white, single, blonde-haired, male, Christian Wincustomize".

HAHA

not all Christian surely fit that descrip but...
hehe

lol, No, I would think not... Point being of course that if you were going to limit yourself to or favor a particular audience based on personal beliefs of any sort, it'd be best to come right out with it.

I know

I just thought that was funny, some of my Christian friends and also my pastor rides a Harley, (that is why I laughed)

I hated church....it took valuable time out of my weekends....and my mother was the Sunday School teacher, too....
I did learn one or two things, though....
We have God and Religion to thank for the majority of the world's violence and blood-shed over the generations of global conflict.

All due to the lack of tolerance of one religion to co-exist with any other, although one of the pivotal teachings of religion is 'tolerance' or 'love thy neighbour' - call it what you will.

I gave up on organized Religion when I could no longer stomach the fucking hypocrisy.

Sorry, people, but look really closely at pretty-well any conflict in the world, and ask where is your 'God' and what is his/her thoughts?....

/me gets off soap-box now, and returns to good-humoured Spell-checker once more...

Quite true jafo, though I'd been steering clear of bringing it up.

I suppose it's just good that the US wasn't founded as a Christian nation or a lot of us here might have been hanged or thrown out by the fundies...

Well, I for one beleive that there is a God, an active, living Spirit that can affect your life.

I alwasys tell my Scientifical friends to take a look at the "Big Bang" theory form one step back...they say the world was created in a big explosion...in order to have an explosion, you need material and energy. Where did the material and energy for the Big Bang come from.

and this too:
i can't beleive that the Almighty is just a "bean counter in the sky", running some giant abacus of our good deeds and our bad.
------------------------------------
Doreen, you shoudl not see this as a cornering of tman. thats not what it is. for the most part, this thread has been a "meditation", a sharing of ideas, about putting a "Christian" subcategory on this particualr website.

And, for the most part, everyone has been (mostly) polite while expressing their different beleifs on teh subject matter, which makes me think there are a lot of nice peopel here.

I know ken

I read wrong...

I "Felt" T-Man was being cornered, I thought he was serious and under pressure.
and I have a problem w/ jumping in to back up when I "SHOULD" just learn to mind my own business...

sorry guys

Jafo, I had a historian friend that told me once that religion wars never existed. It has always been, and still is about money and power. The religion bit is what the governments told their people.
Official statement from the King to his people and soldiers: Lets free Jerusalem from the unholy Saladin!
Pope to the King: We can't let the Saracens control this region rich in spices and gold.

But that is just an interpretation of History. But then again, that's what history is all about: interpretations. But I think I support that opinion, it definetly makes a lot of sense.

Kenray, you ask "Where did the material and energy for the Big Bang come from?", then I'll ask the same question: "Where did God come from?". I know your answer, so I can tell you that mine is the same as yours.

and one more thing about us Christians here in america.

we say "In God We Trust"

God says "Thou Shalt Not Kill"
God says, "Vengeance is mine"


and today, we americans, in our wisdom and love, in our holiness and kindness, well, today we killed a man.

federally.

which means that each of us who vote, pay taxes and have social security numbers, each of us in a little way, held the sword and commited murder.

are'nt we a funny sort?

kenray....if it would ease your collective consciences...I would gladly have topped him for you, and not batted an eye-lid.
Rabid animals of any species endanger and defile our very existence....If he were fat enough, each victim could have had his pound of flesh..

The real blot on society is its willingness to allow people to have access to weapons of destruction and mass-murder...and ironically that is considered a 'right' in the US.....what a load of tripe....

Any minute now, I'm gonna start throwing slain children's bodies at Chuckie Heston and his clan.....

/me trips and falls off soap-box yet again....muttering 'debate is good.....totally useless, but good'...

While many religions have much to be ashamed of regarding persecution of others, the fact remains, the worst atrocities ever inflicted by man against his fellow man have been perpetrated by atheistic societies against their own citizens. The excuse that religion is the cause of all the worlds wars/misery is not sustainable.

Every religion comes down to 2 things. What is right and what is wrong. But ultimately who are we to tell another what is right or wrong for them?

jcg - Religion, as it has been for many thousands of years, is used to control. It is used to place fear into the unknowing and in turn keeps them in line and out of the way. Jesus was a terrorist. He had a new way for people to live, but it went against the Romans so what did they do? They crucified him because he threatened their power and control. Everything is for power and control. Be it ones own self power and control or to have power and control over another.

It has been proven that cultures 20,000 + years ago had the intelligence that we have and more. They understood and knew how to use the land and it's life to heal both the body and soul. What do we use? a bunch of chemicals and artificial ingredients to help heal and nourish. and in the end it only hurts us. Heart disease and cancer has become more and more prevalent since the invention of "refined" sugar in America.

And to those who actually think that the crusades were righteous and justified... are you actually saying that all of the knowledge and wisdom that was lost when they tried to destroy the books and culture of the other cultures was a good thing? They knew about every planet in our solar system without even having a telescope! HELLO McFly?! What about the book of Geometry that the Mayans had that was found some years back that had survived the crusades?

I believe that there was a Jesus, if that was his true name, and I believed he had a great understanding of this illusion we call our 3 dimensional reality, but I will and cannot believe that the church has stayed true to his original teachings. Anyone seen the movie Stigmata? Has anyone read the Gospels of St. Thomas? These writing were found near were they found the Dead Sea scrolls. They are said to be the actual words of Jesus BUT the church has denounced them as heresy. Know why?

This is why, Jesus said:

If your guides claim that the kingdom is in the sky, the birds of the sky will be there before you. If they see it is in the sea, the fishes of the sea will be there before you.

The kingdom is within you and without you.

When you know yourselves, you will be known.

Then you shall know that you are Sons of the Living Father.

But if you do not know yourselves you are in poverty, and you are poverty.

This statement alone denounces the church as a controlling body and it quite clearly states that you do not need to go to a church to pray nor do you do not need to fear this fictitious place called hell. Seriously, do you think that there is this red guy sitting in flames waiting to torment you for all eternity? Sounds like a fear tactic to control people with a lesser intelligence to me.

One more thing... Who gave King James the right to rewrite the bible? And why do you think he did this?

Just look around people. I respect what everyone believes, but belief is not knowledge.

Which is why it is called "belief" and not "fact". Religion may have started out as a means of explaning the world around us back in our animistic days, but enter the shaman... Nowadays it's merely a means of power.

Third Eye - One more thing... Who gave King James the right to rewrite the bible? And why do you think he did this?

i read a book about the history of the bible a few years ago, and it said that King James commissioned a group of scholars to go back over the "origional" documents, and to produce a "new" version of the bible that was closer to the origional that the one that was in use at the time.

when the King James bible came out, it was burnt as heresy. and now it is hailed as the one and true bible.

of course that all may be wrong, but if true its quite interesting.

from what i have read it seems that often religious leaders of established christian religions dont follow their own tenants, but expect all of their followers to. combined with the vast number of deaths in the name of a religion that says "thow shall not kill", and it is no wonder that many people seem to become disillusioned with organised religion.

personally i accept the existence of god as an observed fact. i also realize that humans are not god. since human language is understandable by humans, any true attempt to describe god (beyond human) in human language is bound to fail. so why get so excited by the exact wording? cannot people concentrate more on the message than the messenger?

Um feline....the word is 'tenets'....

Although it IS reasonable to expect that religious leaders could also be landlords....

as i recal, for quite a lot of the medieval ages in europe they were landlords