Deceiver_0 Deceiver_0

NEW Patch Stat Changes Forums [NEW TOPIC: CAPITAL SHIPS!! 1/2/10]

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NEW Patch Stat Changes Forums [NEW TOPIC: CAPITAL SHIPS!! 1/2/10]

For Sins Version 1.19 and Entrenchment 1.05

from Sins Forums

Hey everyone its that time again, lets compile some data!

This is a post that I will update regularly to give the DEVS a better idea of what people think should be done to stats in the next patch. This is ONLY for patches, no new ships or elaborate concepts for the next expansion. This is for dealing with peoples’ concerns about balance. If there’s a balance idea you have that’s not on here, post it and I’ll put it up for voting if it seems valid. I love the fact that ICO pays attention to the forums and what people suggest, I’d like to make it easier for them. The idea is to have all ideas posted straight forward and ranked so the DEVS don’t have to sift through pages and pages to find popular ideas. SP and MP players are both welcome to comment. Post yay or nay for any idea you like or dislike (be specific please) or say no fix needed. If you’d like I’ll also insert specific values you may come up with. Some votes will be taken from other threads.

BUGS

Since the last patches release, the main complaint I've seen on the forums are in the form of bugs, so I'm compiling a list of the known ones, and will update the list as more are discovered. Some of the early bugs were fixed in the hotfix, and perhaps (fingers crossed) the Devs will release another hotfix to address the rest, rather than a whole new patch. So here it goes:

- Nano Weapons Jammer autocast AI casts continuously

- AM Recharger autocast AI casts continuously

- Illuminator causes mystery damage between shots

- Phasic Trap research Level 2 still has no effect.

- Orkulus Phase Stabilizer does not work on stars.

- Random Map Bugs:

              - Single Phase lane starts

              - No connected Asteroids

              - Overlapping Gravity Wells

- Backwards Dunov Icon

- Pathing Improvements (specifically dealing with stationary obstacles)

- Orkulus commands cancelled when trade ships dock

- No wave cannon sounds on Kortul

- Resource extractors on HWs produce income before they're constructed.

- PAWELOS BUG HUNTING

- Siege Militia/pirates run from turrets before construction is complete (exploit).

 

CAPITAL SHIPS

This will be a large section that will continue to evolve through out the life of this thread so check back often for new topics. Consensus seems to think now that carrier caps have all been buffed, many of the other caps need to be brought up to par with them.

Buff Battleship Class(Kol/Radiance/Kortul)

                          Increase hp/shields/armor?-

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%)  Darvin3                Deceiver_0
                                                      CallenExile               MindsEye                 Swordsalmon
                                                      Hrabandur                CrazyElectron           Ryat
                                                      Arthanis                   Warlord Mike           Onigiri

                                     Nay-

                          Increase DPS?-

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%)  Darvin3                Deceiver_0
                                                      MindsEye                 Swordsalmon           CallenExile
                                                      Hrabandur               CrazyElectron           Ryat
                                                       Arthanis                 Warlord Mike

                                     Nay-           Onigiri

                          Buff Gauss Rail Gun?-

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz(800/1200/1600)  Darvin3       Deceiver_0
                                                      CallenExile              MindsEye                  Swordsalmon
                                                      CrazyElectron           Ryat                        Arthanis
                                                      Warlord Mike

                                     Nay-            Hrabandur              Onigiri

                          Re-work Animosity?

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz           Darvin3                   Deceiver_0
                                                      MindsEye                Swordsalmon            Ryat
                                                      Arthanis                 Warlord Mike

                                     Nay-           CallenExile              Hrabandur               Onigiri

         No Change needed-                    CoBBQ

Colonizer Caps(Akkan/Progenitor/Jarrasul)

                        Buff Jarrasul Evacuator's colonize?

                                    Yay-            Darvin3               Volt_Cruelerz              Deceiver_0
                                                      Swordsalmon       Agent of Kharma           Hrabandur
                                                      Ryat                   Arthanis                     Warlord Mike
                                                      Onigiri 

                                    Nay-            CallenExile           MindsEye

        No Change needed-

Carrier Class Caps(Sova/Halcyon/Skirantra)

                       Buff Scramble Bombers?

                                  Yay-              Darvin3              Volt_Cruelerz               Deceiver_0
                                                      MindsEye            Swordsalmon               Agent of Kharma
                                                      Hrabandur          Ryat                           Arthanis
                                                      Warlord Mike 

                                  Nay-              CallenExile         Onigiri

                      Buff Replicate Forces?

                                  Yay-               Arthanis            Warlord Mike                 Onigiri

                                  Nay-

        No Change needed-

Buff Support Class Caps(Dunov/Antorak/Rapture/Revelation)

                      Increase AM regen?

                                 Yay-               Darvin3               Hrabandur               CrazyElectron
                                                      Ryat                   Juletron                  Arthanis
                                                      Warlord Mike        Swordsalmon

                                 Nay-               CallenExile           Mindseye                 Onigiri

                     Increase maximum AM?

                                 Yay-               CallenExile          Darvin3                    Hrabandur
                                                      Mindseye            Volt_Cruelerz             CrazyElectron
                                                      Juletron              Arthanis                   Warlord Mike

                                 Nay-               Ryat                  Swordsalmon            Onigiri

                     Increase Dunov EMP range?

                                 Yay-               CallenExile          Mindseye                  Volt_Cruelerz
                                                      CrazyElectron      Ryat                        Juletron
                                                      Arthanis             Warlord Mike             Swordsalmon

                                 Nay-               Hrabandur          Onigiri

                     Allow Dunov shield restore to be self targetable?

                                Yay-                Mindseye           CrazyElectron             Juletron
                                                      Arthanis            Deceiver_0

                                Nay-                Ryat                 Volt_Cruelerz            Warlord Mike
                                                      Swordsalmon      Onigiri

                     Allow Antoraks subversion to effect SC?

                               Yay-                 Mindseye           Juletron                    Volt_Cruelerz
                                                      Arthanis            Warlord Mike             Onigiri

                               Nay-                 Ryat                Swordsalmon

                     Buff Phase out hull?

                               Yay-                 Mindseye            Juletron                   Volt_Cruelerz
                                                      Arthanis             Warlord Mike            Swordsalmon
                                                       

                               Nay-                 Ryat                 Onigiri

         No Change Needed-

 

 

DELIVERANCE ENGINE

Without a doubt the weakest of the superweapons, there is little point in seeking it. For too long its been sitting in a dusty box on the shelf, to weak to be worth its tremendous costs. Lets consider some buffs to at least make it functional as a weapon. The one buff thats been suggested that I like is an instant allegiance drop, which will aid Advent in cultural takeovers of border planets and with enough, could possibly overthrow an enemy planet (though Id say it should require many more than the fearsome novalith)

Buff Deliverance engine-

                         Cause an instant decrease in allegiance?

                                    Yay-           Deceiver_0                Kitkun                    Greyfox2
                                                     anteachtaire              Mow Mow                Warlord Mike
                                                     Hrabandur                 Arthanis

                                    Nay-           Howdidudothat

No buff needed-                                Qu4r                        Darvin3                  CallenExile        

 

 

EMPIRE TREE

As I feel that the devs decision to put "Phase Jumping" ships at the top of the tree was purposeful and not a bug, I think most of us agree that the constant movement it creates (especially with phase monitoring!) makes the empire tree difficult to use. Move it to the bottom?

Adjust Empire Tree-

                         Move "Phase Jumping Ships" to the bottom of the tree?

                                    Yay-           Deceiver_0               Darvin3                  SwordSalmon
                                                     JSW_Ballz                Mindseye                Agent of Kharma
                                                     Ryat                        52500                    Mow Mow
                                                     Fuzzy Logic              EadTaes                 Warlord Mike
                                                     Hrabandur               Howdidudothat        -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Chaotic Magician        Arthanis

                                    Nay-           CallenExile

 

FIGHTERS

Some are unsatisfied with fighters with regards to surviving flak. I urge everyone to read the points of debate between Mindseye and myself starting on page 10-11, to get a better understanding of why fighters should or should not be adjusted. Below are a few suggestions

Buff Fighters-

                        Increase armor/hp?

                                  Yay-             Mindseye                 Mow Mow                Greyfox2
                                                     Qu4r                       Arthanis          

                                  Nay-             Deceiver_0               Darvin3                  Ryat
                                                     Top Vasari               Warlord Mike           EadTaes
                                                     Hrabandur                Howdidudothat        -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Chaotic Magician       Agent of Kharma      CallenExile
                                                     CrazyElectron 

MAPS

Raging Amish has proposed some modest changes to maps that I think we could possibly have implemented with enough support, so lets get a vote to see what people think of them. Magnetic clouds are huge wastes of space as their is nothing terribly beneficial about them. People with ability heavy fleets and caps would opt to fight you somewhere else (and can do so without much penalty). They make awful chokepoints because you can't put starbases or mines there, and they offer no economic value. I'd like to hear some ideas on how to improve them (beyond removing them completely from the game as RA has suggested). If we can come up with some good ones I'll put them up for a vote. In the meantime, I think one should at least be able to construct Starbases here, so I'll put that up as a topic. Also, all too often we see Ice and Volcanic planets  (which require research to colonize) offering you only 2 resource mines for the trouble of colonizing them. Personally I don't think that PLANETS should have less resources to offer than an asteroid. What do you think?

Magnetic Clouds-

                          Allow starbase deployment?

                                    Yay-            Deceiver_0              Darvin3                  Hrabandur
                                                      Juletron                  Howdidudothat         Warlord Mike
                                                      DirtySanchezz          Kitkun                    Qu4r
                                                      CrazyElectron

                                    Nay-            Ryat                       CallenExile              EadTaes
                                                      DesConnor              -Ue_Carbon             Chaotic Magician

Ice/Volcanic planets-

                          Change minimum mines to 3 (currently 2)?

                                   Yay-             Deceiver_0              Swordsalmon           Ryat
                                                      Darvin3                   Juletron                  Mindseye
                                                      Mow Mow                 EadTaes                 JSW_Ballz
                                                      Howdidudothat         Warlord Mike          Kitkun
                                                      Ovi_187                  -Ue_Carbon            Chaotic Magician
                                                      CrazyElectron 

                                   Nay-             CallenExile              DesConnor              DirtySanchezz
                                                      Hrabandur               Agent of Kharma      Qu4r

No Changes needed-

 

 

 

ORKULUS STARBASE

This topic is going to be heavy on the debate, and will likely be updated several times with NEW votable options throughout the life of this thread. Now, I think it's safe to say that we're beyond the point of the DEVS making a Vasari Assault cruiser and making the Orky stationary. So if thats what you think should happen thats fine, but it would be more useful for everyone if you hada second opinion on the Orky and voted on the issues below.

Nerf Orkulus-

                           Increase build penalty in hostile wells? (currently 2.25x unupgraded)

                                     Yay-          Greyfox2                   Raging Amish(3x)   Mindseye
                                                     Arthanis 

                                     Nay-          Deceiver_0                 Cykur                    Howdidudothat
                                                     Top Vasari                  Swordsalmon         Ryat
                                                     anteachtaire               LordMechanoid       JSW_Ballz
                                                     Warlord Mike              Agent of Kharma    DesConnor
                                                     DirtySanchezz             Kitkun                   Qu4r
                                                     52500                        Hrabandur            -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Chaotic Magician         Qu4r                    CallenExile
                                                    

Other-

                           SB constructors trigger phase monitoring alarm? ("Hostile forces are inbound")

                                    Yay-          Mindseye                    Deceiver_0            Howdidudothat
                                                    Top Vasari                   Cykur                   LordMechanoid
                                                    Warlord Mike               DirtySanchezz        Kitkun
                                                    52500                         Hrabandur            -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Chaotic Magician           CallenExile           CrazyElectron
                                                    Arthanis 

                                    Nay-          JSW_Ballz                   DesConnor           Qu4r

 

 

SCOUT FRIGATES

A hotly debated topic right now on the forums, none can deny their increased presence on the MP battlefield. As the cheapest buildable unit in the game, as well as being tier 0, its utility against long ranged frigates has been thoroughly exploited. The question remains, is it balanced? This topic will be split into two sections, a general section for a blanket nerf and a more specific section for interspecies balance. The reason for this is that some think scouts need to be weaker in general, whike other think they need to be balanced on par wtih TEC scouts.

Nerf Scouts-

                          Decrease hp/shields?

                                     Yay-

                                     Nay-          DirtySanchezz            Cykur                Arthanis

                          Decrease DPS?

                                     Yay-          DirtySanchezz            Greyfox2           Mindseye
                                                     Arthanis 

                                     Nay-          Cykur

                          Increase Cost/supply?

                                     Yay-         Mindseye                   Cykur                 Swordsalmon

                                     Nay-         DirtySanchezz             Arthanis

No Nerf Needed-                              Deceiver_0                 Wingflier            Howdidudothat
                                                     Darvin3                      Ryat                 CallenExile
                                                     Chaotic Magician        Agent of Kharma  Sivcorp
                                                     52500                       JSW_Ballz           LordMechanoid
                                                     Kitkun                       Hrabandur          -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Qu4r                        CrazyElectron

Balance Scouts-

                          Decrease Seeker Vessels Hp/shields/armor?

                                     Yay-         Deceiver_0                 Wingflier             Mow Mow
                                                    Swordsalmon              Darvin3               Ryat
                                                    Greyfox2                    52500                 JSW_Ballz
                                                    Cykur                        Top Vasari           LordMechanoid
                                                    Kitkun                        Hrabandur          -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                          CrazyElectron       Arthanis

                                     Nay-         DirtySanchezz            Howdidudothat      CallenExile
                                                   

                          Decrease Seeker Vessels DPS?

                                     Yay-         Swordsalmon              DirtySanchezz      Howdidudothat
                                                     Greyfox2                   Hrabandur          Qu4r 

                                     Nay-         Wingflier                    Darvin3               Ryat
                                                     CallenExile                52500                 JSW_Ballz
                                                     Cykur                       LordMechanoid     Kitkun
                                                    -Ue_Carbon                 CrazyElectron       Arthanis

                          Decrease Jikara Navigator cost/supply?

                                     Yay-         Deceiver_0                 Wingflier              Howdidudothat
                                                    CallenExile                 52500                  LordMechanoid
                                                    Hrabandur                  Qu4r 

                                     Nay-         Swordsalmon              DirtySanchezz       Darvin3
                                                    Ryat                          Chaotic Magician   JSW_Ballz
                                                    Cykur                        Greyfox2             Kitkun
                                                    -Ue_Carbon                CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                          Increase Jikara Navigator DPS?

                                     Yay-         Mow Mow                   Swordsalmon         Howdidudothat
                                                    Ryat                         Chaotic Magician     52500
                                                    JSW_Ballz                  Hrabandur            -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                         CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                                     Nay-         Wingflier                   DirtySanchezz        Darvin3
                                                    CallenExile                Cykur                   Greyfox2
                                                    LordMechanoid           Kitkun   

                          Increase Jikara Navigator hp/shields?

                                     Yay-         Mow Mow                  Darvin3                  Ryat
                                                    Chaotic Magician         Sivcorp                   Top Vasari
                                                    Kitkun                      Hrabandur              -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                        CrazyElectron           Arthanis

                                     Nay-         CallenExile               JSW_Ballz               Cykur
                                                    LordMechanoid

No Balance Needed-                         Agent of Kharma      EadTaes                 DesConnor

 

 

RAVASTRA SKIRMISHERS

While the most expensive light frigate in both resources and supply, these ships have the worst DPS per supply. With the recent buff to all light frigs, Cobalts and Disciples are now delivering on the tasks they're meant to, yet skirmishers are still struggling. So what should be done?

Buff Skirmishers-

                            Increase DPS?
                                        
                                      Yay-        Deceiver_0                Darvin3               52500 
                                                    Cykur                       Chaotic Magician   Top Vasari
                                                    Howdidudothat           Wingflier              Swordsalmon
                                                    Juletron                     Ryat                   Sivcorp
                                                    DirtySanchezz             GreyFox2            Raging Amish
                                                    CallenExile                 Mindseye            JSW_Ballz
                                                    Warlord Mike              lbgsloan             Mow Mow
                                                    EadTaes                    DesConnor          Kitkun
                                                    Agent of Kharma        Hrabandur           -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                       CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                                      Nay-        LordMechanoid

                            Decrease Supply cost?

                                      Yay-        Raging Amish           LordMechanoid      Hrabandur
                                                    Qu4r    

                                      Nay-        Deceiver_0                Darvin3               52500
                                                    Cykur                       Chaotic Magician   Top Vasari
                                                    Howdidudothat           Wingflier             Swordsalmon
                                                    Juletron                    Ryat                    CallenExile                
                                                    Mindseye                  JSW_Ballz            Warlord Mike
                                                    lbgsloan                   Mow Mow              Kitkun
                                                    -Ue_Carbon               CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                            Decrease Resource cost?

                                      Yay-        52500                       Warlord Mike

                                      Nay-        Darvin3                     Cykur                Chaotic Magician  
                                                    Top Vasari                 Howdidudothat    Wingflier
                                                    Swordsalmon             Juletron              Ryat
                                                    DirtySanchezz             Raging Amish     CallenExile
                                                    Mindseye                   JSW_Ballz           LordMechanoid
                                                    lbgsloan                    Kitkun                Hrabandur
                                                    -Ue_Carbon               Qu4r                   Arthanis

                            Adjust Reintegration autocast AI to activate earlier?

                                      Yay-        Deceiver_0               Darvin3               52500
                                                    Chaotic Magician       Top Vasari           Howdidudothat          
                                                    Wingflier                  Swordsalmon       Juletron
                                                    Ryat                        Sivcorp               Runesia
                                                    DirtySanchezz           GreyFox2            Raging Amish
                                                    CallenExile               Mindseye            JSW_Ballz
                                                    Warlord Mike            lbgsloan             Mow Mow
                                                    EadTaes                  Kitkun                 Agent of Kharma
                                                    Hrabandur               -Ue_Carbon          Qu4r 
                                                    CrazyElectron            Arthanis

                                      Nay-        LordMechanoid

 

No Change Needed-

 

 

 

1,702,003 views 913 replies
Reply #176 from Sins Forums Top

Put me down for a nay on orky construction

Reply #177 from Sins Forums Top

Orkulus Balance

Increase build time in enemy GWs- Nay

Siege of Centauri
Reply #178 from Sins Forums Top

I should mention I am against just a flat nerf to 3X. What I would really like is a nerf to 300%-400%, but couple that with a buff to vasari upgrade that gives -25% for two upgrades. What I'd really like to see is the balance be set at 350%, but then the Vasari player can get -75% per upgrade to bring it down to 175%. That's what I'd like. It would make it so a starbase rusher HAS to get 3/4 tier tech before he can use the sneak attack stuff. I don't remember what tier the tech is.

I don't think that'd be too far out of line, but specifically my hope is that it would balance early game starbase rushing, however, this feeling my be moot, because as Cykur has mentioned, with Diplomacy comes the end of very early game feed, so early game usage of this tactic may not be an issue, but for non-diplo, the balance I propose above is what I'd want.

Reply #179 from Sins Forums Top

Reducing the build time of the Orky, but making up for this by making Assualt Deployment better sounds reasonable imo.

I don't want to touch the Orkulus issue though. I think that the idea of an anti-SB SB is a design blunder because: fortresses are inherently defensive, Orkulus versus Okulus is messy, there is nothing to balance it against and using it this way is a gigantic gamble and therefore impractical.

An Orkulus is an enemy grav-well may also be up against a more heavily upgraded SB so the Vasari has to spend alot of money and time in purchasing upgrades some of which need to be researched beforehand. It takes ages to destroy enemy SBs with an Orkulus and this is very inefficient.The Orkulus should be able to assualt enemy worlds on its own because it is so time consuming to get and expensive, and yet it needs help from bombers which are a much better investment.

Reply #180 from Sins Forums Top

Another factor in map imbalances is that ice planets are often very weakly guarded.  As they have three stages of infrastructure, shouldn't they have the same posible militia groups as desert planets, rather than the less populous volcanic planets?  I suspect that this has been requested before, but it wasn't yet on this list.

Militia could be a topic on its own, the potential is there for huge improvement to the game without any extra development time, just by alterations to map setups.  Why should the pirates have the only organised defence structure...? 

Reply #181 from Sins Forums Top

Another factor in map imbalances is that ice planets are often very weakly guarded.  As they have three stages of infrastructure, shouldn't they have the same posible militia groups as desert planets, rather than the less populous volcanic planets?  I suspect that this has been requested before, but it wasn't yet on this list.

While ice do have a higher upgrade level potential than volcanics, and crystal is usually valued slightly higher than metal (though that always is a case of supply and demand), classifying it with volcanics is still a good policy.  Both volcanics and ice planets require a tech 2 civic upgrade to access, which means it's a serious sacrifice to get them in the early game.  This in many ways can make them more difficult and expensive to nab than a moderately defended desert or terran.

Now, the problem is more the massive variability in militia.  An ice can have as few as 2 cobalts, 1 flak, and 1 krosov, to as many as (I think) 5 cobalts, 3 flaks, 3 LRM's, and 3 Krosovs.  Deserts and Terrans have even more substantial variations.  The variations in extractors (2-4) also have a big effect.


Militia could be a topic on its own

Indeed it should.  I think there's a lot to discuss before we could put anything up to a structured vote.

Why should the pirates have the only organised defence structure...?

Actually, using the in-game map designer you can actually make a chance that militia will spawn in with tactical structures.

Reply #182 from Sins Forums Top

Orkalus starbase -

Nerf orkalus - nay

Constructor frigates trigger alarm - yay

Nerf scouts -

Decrease hp/sheilds - nay

Decrease dps - nay

Increase cost/supply - nay

Balance scouts -

Decrease seeker hp/sheilds/armor - yay

Decrease seeker dps - nay

Decrease navigator cost/supply - yay

Increase navigator dps - nay

Increase navigator hp/sheilds - nay

Skirmishers -

Increase dps -nay

Decrease supply/cost - yay

Decrese resource cost - nay

Adjust reintegration ai autocast - nay

 

 

Reply #183 from Sins Forums Top

Noticed the Visari Marauder's speed boost ability (forget what it's called at the moment, as I've used that ship like...twice) has a nasty tooltip bug at level 1.  It still says the ability screws over enemy jump time, then at level 2 is seems like you're actually getting as downgrade as that effect is seemingly lost.

 

For scouts:

Yes, no to everything else.

For skirmishers:

Yes, no, no, yes.

Reply #184 from Sins Forums Top

For scouts:

Yes, no to everything else.

Need to be more specific please. Yes what...

Reply #185 from Sins Forums Top

Why does everyone hate the Vasari so much?  Haven't they been pummeled with the nerf bat more than enough?

Nerf Orkulus - NO.

Reply #186 from Sins Forums Top

Nerf Orkulus- Increase build penalty in hostile wells? (currently 2.25x unupgraded) - No.

Other- SB constructors trigger phase monitoring alarm? ("Hostile forces are inbound") - Yes.

Reply #187 from Sins Forums Top

If they just had a brief klaxon or warning sound when either a SB constructor or Vasari migrator were entering your space, that would suffice

No good.  What if the enemy homeworld is a couple jumps back from his frontline planets you are entering with the constructor?  He'd get the warning when you hit his first frontline planet, then he'd get it every step of the way as it made its way to his back homeworld.

If there are to be warnings (not saying there should be), it should be when the SB STARTS CONSTRUCTING, not when the constructor enters enemy space.

All these people screaming about the vasari SB being rushed onto their homeworld are essentially saying "I hate being on the receiving end of this tactic/strat, so nerf this tactic/strat."  Well, I hate being on the receiving end of an innumerable list of tactics/strats.

People (Greyfox, MindsEye) are basically saying they want to be immume to an SB rush, because they simply don't like it.  I don't find that to be a very compelling argument.  If it is a complelling argument, then make me immune to a whole host of things (being gang-rushed by two or more opponents at once, including all their capships, being illum-spammed, being lrm-spammed, being nuked by that stupid Marza, on and on).

Reply #188 from Sins Forums Top

Hey agent,

Do you really think its fair that a Vasari player, at any point in the game, can send a migrator to your HW unnoticed, and there is nothing for you to do except watch your empire like a hawk from above at all times?

When we're talking SB rush, we're talking you getting a Vasari SB building at your hw around or before you're colonizing your 3rd planet, at which point there isnt likely to be a frontline yet. That aside, what I'm proposing with the topic above, requires civics labs to research (phase monitoring tech) and gives the same warning as when any hostile ship  jumps to one of your planets. If a person were to research this tech, they would not have the military power necessary to fight off a real SB rush (along with a number of other rushes). It's more for warning you of possible incursions during the mid-game. And remember that late game, Vasari can put migrators ANYWHERE in 1 jump. I don't think the warning should be unique, and I think it should require the research.

It only makes sense that migrators (and other sb constructors) are dangerous offensive weapons, and you research phase monitoring tech to warn yourself of dangerous offensive weapons, so why don't the constructors trigger the alarm?

It would still be very possible to sneak a SB contructor into enemy territory (especially if you've got his fleet and attention tied up somewhere) but researching the proper tech would make it more difficult to get really deep into enemy territory unnoticed, and give a player who spent the money researching phase monitoring (a tech that goes unresearched far too often in MP) valuable time to either catch the constructor before it reaches its destination (if it happens to be say your hw), or start your fleet headed in its direction. Border planets would still be fair game, and each planet beyond those increases the likelihood of getting caught. I don;t know about you, but that seems fair to me. I really think adding this feature would curb a bit of the complaints I've seen about the sneaky little Orky (though probably not grey's and mind's).

Reply #189 from Sins Forums Top

 

Nerfing the Vasari starbase will only further disadvantage the Vasari and give people one less reason to play them.  I probably won't play them if the starbases become less effective; it's currently one of the best if not the best reason to play Vasari at all.

Reply #190 from Sins Forums Top

 

<Post deleted--accidental double post.>

Reply #191 from Sins Forums Top

The point is not that I want them nerfed because I don't like them.  I want them nerfed because it is difficult to fight it off early rush.  Their SB is one of vasari's strengths and I don't want it nerfed too much but the build time is slightly too fast.  It is still tough as nails and very difficult to dislodge once it is there.  Build time nerfing will leave it just as tough but a little easier to deal with the rush.  I don't care as much about the sneakiness although it would be nice to have a warning of one building.  I have come to expect it out of vasari players and pay attention to my neighbors and what they are doing.

 

[_]-Greyfox

Reply #192 from Sins Forums Top

I'm changing my vote

Other- SB constructors trigger phase monitoring alarm? ("Hostile forces are inbound") - No.

On an aside, I'd really like to know when my starbase is under attack, in the same way that the computer yells at me if my lone scout gets hit by a single bullet ("Our forces are under attack").  If I have one set up in a well that I don't own the planet in, I never get any warning until my starbase goes boom.  You'd just think that on a space station as huge as those, someone would hit the comm button.

Reply #193 from Sins Forums Top

Huh.  The Orky.  Let's see here...

Nerf Orkulus - Increase build penalty...

Nerf Orkulus - Increase...

NERF ORKULUS

*twitch, murderous glare*

HELL NO.  Don't you DARE touch my baby...or else.  *gives mean look to those who think so*

SB Alert?  Meh, I guess so.  Though I do support JSW's idea of your advisor know your SB is under attack more than warning an SB is being built in one of your wells.

Reply #194 from Sins Forums Top

On an aside, I'd really like to know when my starbase is under attack, in the same way that the computer yells at me if my lone scout gets hit by a single bullet ("Our forces are under attack").

This is a damn good point.  Perhaps it could be matrixed in with the "nerf orkulus" vote?

Reply #195 from Sins Forums Top

Nerf Orkulus -Nay

Warning for construction of enemy sb -Yay

Warning when SB is under attack - Yay

As a vasari player... well I get stuck in a supporting role a lot. I can't lead a massive force with an awe inspiring fleet to wipe someone out, and as much as I would love to come sweeping into an enemy gw with phase gates, I don think I have ever gotten that far.

So keep Orkulus strong and fast. I might make the arguement that build time in friendly GW should be decreased. I mean, hell, you can build a factory and some other stuff in the same time, and those are made by itty bitty constructors.

For the warning: MP is fast as hell sometimes. I have trouble keeping track of what I am doing, much less everyone else. Anyone who has ever played with me knows that I ask how everyone is doing about every 5 minutes.

SB attack warning: My planets get it, my ships get it, my caps get a "sheilds down" a "severe damage" and a "destroyed"

Reply #196 from Sins Forums Top

Hey agent,

Do you really think its fair that a Vasari player, at any point in the game, can send a migrator to your HW unnoticed, and there is nothing for you to do except watch your empire like a hawk from above at all times?

...


It only makes sense that migrators (and other sb constructors) are dangerous offensive weapons, and you research phase monitoring tech to warn yourself of dangerous offensive weapons, so why don't the constructors trigger the alarm?

Deceiver_0, it is a fair request.  I misinterpreted what someone said (Cykur) to mean some special alarm, not researchable, that went off every time a constructor got near someone's territory, and I thought the issue was that people wanted an alarm when an SB was CONSTRUCTING.

You forgot to put my vote down for NO nerf to the Orkulus (read a few posts up and you will see it).

Reply #197 from Sins Forums Top

Leave the poor starbases alone.  The only problem i have with any of them is the TEC being able to be X-Axis raped.

Reply #198 from Sins Forums Top

Lets talk about magnetic clouds, theyre the most pointless locations on the map offering no strategic or economic value. What adjustments can be made (minor, nothing major) to make them a more desirable place to be? One idea I had was to make phase jumping out of the gravity well take longer so one could lay a trap for ability based fleets. Or perhaps something positive like increased shield regeneration. I don't know, lets throw around some ideas.

Reply #199 from Sins Forums Top

Hey, just so you guys know, in Diplomacy, SB consrtuctors do set off the "incoming hostiles" alarm.

Reply #200 from Sins Forums Top

Personally, I like magnetic clouds. A "hole" in the map where nothing can be built adds a new layer of strategy for me. However, most people don't share my feelings on the matter, so I have a possible alternative:

Instead of preventing use of abilities, perhaps a magnetic cloud could cause an antimatter drain over time? Something like 2AM/Sec? Or make it more costly to use AM abilities? These would make it much more difficult to field a starbase in the well, and hinder mine deployment, but it would still allow a limited fight to take place. It would also make a nice "Dead Zone" where nobody wants to attack from.