Deceiver_0 Deceiver_0

NEW Patch Stat Changes Forums [NEW TOPIC: CAPITAL SHIPS!! 1/2/10]

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NEW Patch Stat Changes Forums [NEW TOPIC: CAPITAL SHIPS!! 1/2/10]

For Sins Version 1.19 and Entrenchment 1.05

from Sins Forums

Hey everyone its that time again, lets compile some data!

This is a post that I will update regularly to give the DEVS a better idea of what people think should be done to stats in the next patch. This is ONLY for patches, no new ships or elaborate concepts for the next expansion. This is for dealing with peoples’ concerns about balance. If there’s a balance idea you have that’s not on here, post it and I’ll put it up for voting if it seems valid. I love the fact that ICO pays attention to the forums and what people suggest, I’d like to make it easier for them. The idea is to have all ideas posted straight forward and ranked so the DEVS don’t have to sift through pages and pages to find popular ideas. SP and MP players are both welcome to comment. Post yay or nay for any idea you like or dislike (be specific please) or say no fix needed. If you’d like I’ll also insert specific values you may come up with. Some votes will be taken from other threads.

BUGS

Since the last patches release, the main complaint I've seen on the forums are in the form of bugs, so I'm compiling a list of the known ones, and will update the list as more are discovered. Some of the early bugs were fixed in the hotfix, and perhaps (fingers crossed) the Devs will release another hotfix to address the rest, rather than a whole new patch. So here it goes:

- Nano Weapons Jammer autocast AI casts continuously

- AM Recharger autocast AI casts continuously

- Illuminator causes mystery damage between shots

- Phasic Trap research Level 2 still has no effect.

- Orkulus Phase Stabilizer does not work on stars.

- Random Map Bugs:

              - Single Phase lane starts

              - No connected Asteroids

              - Overlapping Gravity Wells

- Backwards Dunov Icon

- Pathing Improvements (specifically dealing with stationary obstacles)

- Orkulus commands cancelled when trade ships dock

- No wave cannon sounds on Kortul

- Resource extractors on HWs produce income before they're constructed.

- PAWELOS BUG HUNTING

- Siege Militia/pirates run from turrets before construction is complete (exploit).

 

CAPITAL SHIPS

This will be a large section that will continue to evolve through out the life of this thread so check back often for new topics. Consensus seems to think now that carrier caps have all been buffed, many of the other caps need to be brought up to par with them.

Buff Battleship Class(Kol/Radiance/Kortul)

                          Increase hp/shields/armor?-

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%)  Darvin3                Deceiver_0
                                                      CallenExile               MindsEye                 Swordsalmon
                                                      Hrabandur                CrazyElectron           Ryat
                                                      Arthanis                   Warlord Mike           Onigiri

                                     Nay-

                          Increase DPS?-

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%)  Darvin3                Deceiver_0
                                                      MindsEye                 Swordsalmon           CallenExile
                                                      Hrabandur               CrazyElectron           Ryat
                                                       Arthanis                 Warlord Mike

                                     Nay-           Onigiri

                          Buff Gauss Rail Gun?-

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz(800/1200/1600)  Darvin3       Deceiver_0
                                                      CallenExile              MindsEye                  Swordsalmon
                                                      CrazyElectron           Ryat                        Arthanis
                                                      Warlord Mike

                                     Nay-            Hrabandur              Onigiri

                          Re-work Animosity?

                                     Yay-           Volt_Cruelerz           Darvin3                   Deceiver_0
                                                      MindsEye                Swordsalmon            Ryat
                                                      Arthanis                 Warlord Mike

                                     Nay-           CallenExile              Hrabandur               Onigiri

         No Change needed-                    CoBBQ

Colonizer Caps(Akkan/Progenitor/Jarrasul)

                        Buff Jarrasul Evacuator's colonize?

                                    Yay-            Darvin3               Volt_Cruelerz              Deceiver_0
                                                      Swordsalmon       Agent of Kharma           Hrabandur
                                                      Ryat                   Arthanis                     Warlord Mike
                                                      Onigiri 

                                    Nay-            CallenExile           MindsEye

        No Change needed-

Carrier Class Caps(Sova/Halcyon/Skirantra)

                       Buff Scramble Bombers?

                                  Yay-              Darvin3              Volt_Cruelerz               Deceiver_0
                                                      MindsEye            Swordsalmon               Agent of Kharma
                                                      Hrabandur          Ryat                           Arthanis
                                                      Warlord Mike 

                                  Nay-              CallenExile         Onigiri

                      Buff Replicate Forces?

                                  Yay-               Arthanis            Warlord Mike                 Onigiri

                                  Nay-

        No Change needed-

Buff Support Class Caps(Dunov/Antorak/Rapture/Revelation)

                      Increase AM regen?

                                 Yay-               Darvin3               Hrabandur               CrazyElectron
                                                      Ryat                   Juletron                  Arthanis
                                                      Warlord Mike        Swordsalmon

                                 Nay-               CallenExile           Mindseye                 Onigiri

                     Increase maximum AM?

                                 Yay-               CallenExile          Darvin3                    Hrabandur
                                                      Mindseye            Volt_Cruelerz             CrazyElectron
                                                      Juletron              Arthanis                   Warlord Mike

                                 Nay-               Ryat                  Swordsalmon            Onigiri

                     Increase Dunov EMP range?

                                 Yay-               CallenExile          Mindseye                  Volt_Cruelerz
                                                      CrazyElectron      Ryat                        Juletron
                                                      Arthanis             Warlord Mike             Swordsalmon

                                 Nay-               Hrabandur          Onigiri

                     Allow Dunov shield restore to be self targetable?

                                Yay-                Mindseye           CrazyElectron             Juletron
                                                      Arthanis            Deceiver_0

                                Nay-                Ryat                 Volt_Cruelerz            Warlord Mike
                                                      Swordsalmon      Onigiri

                     Allow Antoraks subversion to effect SC?

                               Yay-                 Mindseye           Juletron                    Volt_Cruelerz
                                                      Arthanis            Warlord Mike             Onigiri

                               Nay-                 Ryat                Swordsalmon

                     Buff Phase out hull?

                               Yay-                 Mindseye            Juletron                   Volt_Cruelerz
                                                      Arthanis             Warlord Mike            Swordsalmon
                                                       

                               Nay-                 Ryat                 Onigiri

         No Change Needed-

 

 

DELIVERANCE ENGINE

Without a doubt the weakest of the superweapons, there is little point in seeking it. For too long its been sitting in a dusty box on the shelf, to weak to be worth its tremendous costs. Lets consider some buffs to at least make it functional as a weapon. The one buff thats been suggested that I like is an instant allegiance drop, which will aid Advent in cultural takeovers of border planets and with enough, could possibly overthrow an enemy planet (though Id say it should require many more than the fearsome novalith)

Buff Deliverance engine-

                         Cause an instant decrease in allegiance?

                                    Yay-           Deceiver_0                Kitkun                    Greyfox2
                                                     anteachtaire              Mow Mow                Warlord Mike
                                                     Hrabandur                 Arthanis

                                    Nay-           Howdidudothat

No buff needed-                                Qu4r                        Darvin3                  CallenExile        

 

 

EMPIRE TREE

As I feel that the devs decision to put "Phase Jumping" ships at the top of the tree was purposeful and not a bug, I think most of us agree that the constant movement it creates (especially with phase monitoring!) makes the empire tree difficult to use. Move it to the bottom?

Adjust Empire Tree-

                         Move "Phase Jumping Ships" to the bottom of the tree?

                                    Yay-           Deceiver_0               Darvin3                  SwordSalmon
                                                     JSW_Ballz                Mindseye                Agent of Kharma
                                                     Ryat                        52500                    Mow Mow
                                                     Fuzzy Logic              EadTaes                 Warlord Mike
                                                     Hrabandur               Howdidudothat        -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Chaotic Magician        Arthanis

                                    Nay-           CallenExile

 

FIGHTERS

Some are unsatisfied with fighters with regards to surviving flak. I urge everyone to read the points of debate between Mindseye and myself starting on page 10-11, to get a better understanding of why fighters should or should not be adjusted. Below are a few suggestions

Buff Fighters-

                        Increase armor/hp?

                                  Yay-             Mindseye                 Mow Mow                Greyfox2
                                                     Qu4r                       Arthanis          

                                  Nay-             Deceiver_0               Darvin3                  Ryat
                                                     Top Vasari               Warlord Mike           EadTaes
                                                     Hrabandur                Howdidudothat        -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Chaotic Magician       Agent of Kharma      CallenExile
                                                     CrazyElectron 

MAPS

Raging Amish has proposed some modest changes to maps that I think we could possibly have implemented with enough support, so lets get a vote to see what people think of them. Magnetic clouds are huge wastes of space as their is nothing terribly beneficial about them. People with ability heavy fleets and caps would opt to fight you somewhere else (and can do so without much penalty). They make awful chokepoints because you can't put starbases or mines there, and they offer no economic value. I'd like to hear some ideas on how to improve them (beyond removing them completely from the game as RA has suggested). If we can come up with some good ones I'll put them up for a vote. In the meantime, I think one should at least be able to construct Starbases here, so I'll put that up as a topic. Also, all too often we see Ice and Volcanic planets  (which require research to colonize) offering you only 2 resource mines for the trouble of colonizing them. Personally I don't think that PLANETS should have less resources to offer than an asteroid. What do you think?

Magnetic Clouds-

                          Allow starbase deployment?

                                    Yay-            Deceiver_0              Darvin3                  Hrabandur
                                                      Juletron                  Howdidudothat         Warlord Mike
                                                      DirtySanchezz          Kitkun                    Qu4r
                                                      CrazyElectron

                                    Nay-            Ryat                       CallenExile              EadTaes
                                                      DesConnor              -Ue_Carbon             Chaotic Magician

Ice/Volcanic planets-

                          Change minimum mines to 3 (currently 2)?

                                   Yay-             Deceiver_0              Swordsalmon           Ryat
                                                      Darvin3                   Juletron                  Mindseye
                                                      Mow Mow                 EadTaes                 JSW_Ballz
                                                      Howdidudothat         Warlord Mike          Kitkun
                                                      Ovi_187                  -Ue_Carbon            Chaotic Magician
                                                      CrazyElectron 

                                   Nay-             CallenExile              DesConnor              DirtySanchezz
                                                      Hrabandur               Agent of Kharma      Qu4r

No Changes needed-

 

 

 

ORKULUS STARBASE

This topic is going to be heavy on the debate, and will likely be updated several times with NEW votable options throughout the life of this thread. Now, I think it's safe to say that we're beyond the point of the DEVS making a Vasari Assault cruiser and making the Orky stationary. So if thats what you think should happen thats fine, but it would be more useful for everyone if you hada second opinion on the Orky and voted on the issues below.

Nerf Orkulus-

                           Increase build penalty in hostile wells? (currently 2.25x unupgraded)

                                     Yay-          Greyfox2                   Raging Amish(3x)   Mindseye
                                                     Arthanis 

                                     Nay-          Deceiver_0                 Cykur                    Howdidudothat
                                                     Top Vasari                  Swordsalmon         Ryat
                                                     anteachtaire               LordMechanoid       JSW_Ballz
                                                     Warlord Mike              Agent of Kharma    DesConnor
                                                     DirtySanchezz             Kitkun                   Qu4r
                                                     52500                        Hrabandur            -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Chaotic Magician         Qu4r                    CallenExile
                                                    

Other-

                           SB constructors trigger phase monitoring alarm? ("Hostile forces are inbound")

                                    Yay-          Mindseye                    Deceiver_0            Howdidudothat
                                                    Top Vasari                   Cykur                   LordMechanoid
                                                    Warlord Mike               DirtySanchezz        Kitkun
                                                    52500                         Hrabandur            -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Chaotic Magician           CallenExile           CrazyElectron
                                                    Arthanis 

                                    Nay-          JSW_Ballz                   DesConnor           Qu4r

 

 

SCOUT FRIGATES

A hotly debated topic right now on the forums, none can deny their increased presence on the MP battlefield. As the cheapest buildable unit in the game, as well as being tier 0, its utility against long ranged frigates has been thoroughly exploited. The question remains, is it balanced? This topic will be split into two sections, a general section for a blanket nerf and a more specific section for interspecies balance. The reason for this is that some think scouts need to be weaker in general, whike other think they need to be balanced on par wtih TEC scouts.

Nerf Scouts-

                          Decrease hp/shields?

                                     Yay-

                                     Nay-          DirtySanchezz            Cykur                Arthanis

                          Decrease DPS?

                                     Yay-          DirtySanchezz            Greyfox2           Mindseye
                                                     Arthanis 

                                     Nay-          Cykur

                          Increase Cost/supply?

                                     Yay-         Mindseye                   Cykur                 Swordsalmon

                                     Nay-         DirtySanchezz             Arthanis

No Nerf Needed-                              Deceiver_0                 Wingflier            Howdidudothat
                                                     Darvin3                      Ryat                 CallenExile
                                                     Chaotic Magician        Agent of Kharma  Sivcorp
                                                     52500                       JSW_Ballz           LordMechanoid
                                                     Kitkun                       Hrabandur          -Ue_Carbon
                                                     Qu4r                        CrazyElectron

Balance Scouts-

                          Decrease Seeker Vessels Hp/shields/armor?

                                     Yay-         Deceiver_0                 Wingflier             Mow Mow
                                                    Swordsalmon              Darvin3               Ryat
                                                    Greyfox2                    52500                 JSW_Ballz
                                                    Cykur                        Top Vasari           LordMechanoid
                                                    Kitkun                        Hrabandur          -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                          CrazyElectron       Arthanis

                                     Nay-         DirtySanchezz            Howdidudothat      CallenExile
                                                   

                          Decrease Seeker Vessels DPS?

                                     Yay-         Swordsalmon              DirtySanchezz      Howdidudothat
                                                     Greyfox2                   Hrabandur          Qu4r 

                                     Nay-         Wingflier                    Darvin3               Ryat
                                                     CallenExile                52500                 JSW_Ballz
                                                     Cykur                       LordMechanoid     Kitkun
                                                    -Ue_Carbon                 CrazyElectron       Arthanis

                          Decrease Jikara Navigator cost/supply?

                                     Yay-         Deceiver_0                 Wingflier              Howdidudothat
                                                    CallenExile                 52500                  LordMechanoid
                                                    Hrabandur                  Qu4r 

                                     Nay-         Swordsalmon              DirtySanchezz       Darvin3
                                                    Ryat                          Chaotic Magician   JSW_Ballz
                                                    Cykur                        Greyfox2             Kitkun
                                                    -Ue_Carbon                CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                          Increase Jikara Navigator DPS?

                                     Yay-         Mow Mow                   Swordsalmon         Howdidudothat
                                                    Ryat                         Chaotic Magician     52500
                                                    JSW_Ballz                  Hrabandur            -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                         CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                                     Nay-         Wingflier                   DirtySanchezz        Darvin3
                                                    CallenExile                Cykur                   Greyfox2
                                                    LordMechanoid           Kitkun   

                          Increase Jikara Navigator hp/shields?

                                     Yay-         Mow Mow                  Darvin3                  Ryat
                                                    Chaotic Magician         Sivcorp                   Top Vasari
                                                    Kitkun                      Hrabandur              -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                        CrazyElectron           Arthanis

                                     Nay-         CallenExile               JSW_Ballz               Cykur
                                                    LordMechanoid

No Balance Needed-                         Agent of Kharma      EadTaes                 DesConnor

 

 

RAVASTRA SKIRMISHERS

While the most expensive light frigate in both resources and supply, these ships have the worst DPS per supply. With the recent buff to all light frigs, Cobalts and Disciples are now delivering on the tasks they're meant to, yet skirmishers are still struggling. So what should be done?

Buff Skirmishers-

                            Increase DPS?
                                        
                                      Yay-        Deceiver_0                Darvin3               52500 
                                                    Cykur                       Chaotic Magician   Top Vasari
                                                    Howdidudothat           Wingflier              Swordsalmon
                                                    Juletron                     Ryat                   Sivcorp
                                                    DirtySanchezz             GreyFox2            Raging Amish
                                                    CallenExile                 Mindseye            JSW_Ballz
                                                    Warlord Mike              lbgsloan             Mow Mow
                                                    EadTaes                    DesConnor          Kitkun
                                                    Agent of Kharma        Hrabandur           -Ue_Carbon
                                                    Qu4r                       CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                                      Nay-        LordMechanoid

                            Decrease Supply cost?

                                      Yay-        Raging Amish           LordMechanoid      Hrabandur
                                                    Qu4r    

                                      Nay-        Deceiver_0                Darvin3               52500
                                                    Cykur                       Chaotic Magician   Top Vasari
                                                    Howdidudothat           Wingflier             Swordsalmon
                                                    Juletron                    Ryat                    CallenExile                
                                                    Mindseye                  JSW_Ballz            Warlord Mike
                                                    lbgsloan                   Mow Mow              Kitkun
                                                    -Ue_Carbon               CrazyElectron        Arthanis

                            Decrease Resource cost?

                                      Yay-        52500                       Warlord Mike

                                      Nay-        Darvin3                     Cykur                Chaotic Magician  
                                                    Top Vasari                 Howdidudothat    Wingflier
                                                    Swordsalmon             Juletron              Ryat
                                                    DirtySanchezz             Raging Amish     CallenExile
                                                    Mindseye                   JSW_Ballz           LordMechanoid
                                                    lbgsloan                    Kitkun                Hrabandur
                                                    -Ue_Carbon               Qu4r                   Arthanis

                            Adjust Reintegration autocast AI to activate earlier?

                                      Yay-        Deceiver_0               Darvin3               52500
                                                    Chaotic Magician       Top Vasari           Howdidudothat          
                                                    Wingflier                  Swordsalmon       Juletron
                                                    Ryat                        Sivcorp               Runesia
                                                    DirtySanchezz           GreyFox2            Raging Amish
                                                    CallenExile               Mindseye            JSW_Ballz
                                                    Warlord Mike            lbgsloan             Mow Mow
                                                    EadTaes                  Kitkun                 Agent of Kharma
                                                    Hrabandur               -Ue_Carbon          Qu4r 
                                                    CrazyElectron            Arthanis

                                      Nay-        LordMechanoid

 

No Change Needed-

 

 

 

1,702,046 views 913 replies
Reply #201 from Sins Forums Top

Change minimum extractors on Ice/Volcanic planets to 3?
- Yay

Also, I'm going to ask for a change to asteroids. They should have two extractors, instead of three. Asteroids with three extractors is too beneficial economic-wise for the amount of money spent on infacstructure. I think they pay off far too fast currently.

Reply #202 from Sins Forums Top

change magnetic storms is - NAY

change minimum extractors on Ice/Volcanic to 3 - YAY

Fences - Organize your desktop icons today!
Reply #203 from Sins Forums Top
  • Allow starbases in magnetic storms:  yay
  • Change minimum extractors on ice/volcanic planets to 3:  yay

 

I'm actually quite reserved on allowing starbases in magnetic storms.  At very least we wouldn't be able to see meteor control, the big red button, or other vicious specials, but on the other hand you often do use your special abilities (particularly early game) to bring down starbases.  For me, the deciding factor there was that it's simply unfair to have a trade chain expansion cut off by one of these.

 


Other changes that might be considered:

  • Allow neutrals/neutral capture in magnetic storms
  • Fix the random map generator to not give 1-lane starts (or in general so many dead ends and hard chokes close to homeworlds)
  • Fix neutrals to have less of a range of resource asteroid possibilities
Reply #204 from Sins Forums Top

Allow SB in magnetic clouds: yae.

Nerf Orkulus: nay.

Reply #205 from Sins Forums Top

deceiver, this has been mentioned b4 by other ppl....

the jam weapons animation (after update) of the kortul is bugged, it shows the the rapid manufacturing animation when in effect

Reply #206 from Sins Forums Top

Jam Weapons changed from an instantaneous ability to an effect over time ability, and they reused the animation.  I personally think it's fine.

Reply #207 from Sins Forums Top

Another thing that is annoying is that scouts do not avoid pirate bases with auto-explore. If the location of the pirate base is known, then scouts should never travel there when auto-explore is on. Its frustrating to have to micro scouts to not go to pirate bases where they are sure to be killed or at least severely damaged.

Random maps should not favor one side over another side and pirate bases ahould not be choke points. For example, in one recent MP game that I played, the map was divided into two halves, the only way to get to the other side was to travel through a pirate base. My side of the map had only a few roids and terrans and a volcanic. His side of the map had nearly twice as many planets including several deserts, an ice, a valcanic and a few terrans.

Magnetic Clouds allow SB deployment-yay

Ice and volcanic planets get a minimum of 3 mines-yay

Reply #208 from Sins Forums Top

About Magnetic clouds. Cykur and I were talking, and he convinced me that they're not without purpose, but they still annoy me. I have no idea if this is even possible, but I'd like it if the devs would adjust the random map generator so that magnetic clouds can't be next to a homeworld.

My biggest pet peeve in this game is on maps where I have an empty neutral providing grav well, a dead asteroid, a black  hole, or a magnetic cloud NEXT to my homeworld. They're a a gigantic economic and tactical disadvantage right from the start.

If there was a way to make it so that these things can't be next to you to start, I'd be happy.

Currently, the game (provided it doesn't 1 phase lane start you) will guaranteed start you with at LEAST an asteroid and lava/ice. Go to the custon map generator, but turn off all the planets. The asteroid and ice/lava are hard coded into the random map generator so you always have three planets at least.

I'm just rattling off things that come to mind as potential imbalances. I'm not saying they are or aren't, but that if there's anywhere to talk about it, it's here.

  1.  Another thing that I think you should put up to a vote is limiting asteroids to 2 mines (1 ice, 1 lava).
  2. I know there are some people out there who feel Repulse still feels overpoered. People don't use it as much anymore because of how micro intensive it is, but the fact remains that killing these things remains incredibably hard once using repulse. Light frigs still can't get in range of them (weapons or abilities), fighters/bombers get 50% multipliers against incredibably tough targets (the only other unit in the game with 1800 shield  is an advent cap). This leaves long range frigates, which are an option, but that plays back into illum lrf superiority, so the repulse issue arguably still hasn't gone away. My personal option would be to make Caps immune to this ability. Highly skilled vets are still making it so they can destroy fleets twice their size with this ability.  
  3. Hardcode it so more than an asteroid and a lava/ice will be around you.  This is addressing my opinion of magnetic clouds. I'm going to look more into what I've said about this. TBH it's always just been something at the back of my head that I kinda thought about, but I'll get a more definite opinion on it.
  4. Meteor Storm and Red Button actually outrange Ogrovs. Ogrovs have a range of 12000, the range of red button is 12000. Meteor Storm has a range of 15000. The anti-starbase unit can't outrange the abilities on starbases. This leaves the option of increasing the range of the ogrov or decreasing the range of meteor storm and red button. Oh, extra tid bit. Ogrovs will get the target just in range, but then move so the enemy is completely within the "range circle" you get when you hit alt, so by default, ogrovs actually sit at a range of about 11000, which is just wrong. I can lose all of my anti-starbase units toan uber starbase ability.
  5. Move the Overseer to Tier 3. Vasari are the only race that needs 4 labs for its first military support cruisers, which is a pretty big disadvantage. Really, overseers are only good at keeping one specific focused target alive, so it could be argued that this needs to be done. 

Again, I'm just rattling off things that come to mind as potential imbalances. I'm not saying they are or aren't, but that if there's anywhere to talk about it, it's here.

 

Reply #209 from Sins Forums Top

About Magnetic clouds. Cykur and I were talking, and he convinced me that they're not without purpose, but they still annoy me. I have no idea if this is even possible, but I'd like it if the devs would adjust the random map generator so that magnetic clouds can't be next to a homeworld.

I'd agree; I've been using magnetic clouds in my galaxyforge creations recently, and I find they're a great way to create buffers of empty space.  The problem, as you say, is when the map generator puts one right next to your homeworld.  Dead asteroids and wormholes as well shouldn't be next to homeworlds... and empties just shouldn't be.

Highly skilled vets are still making it so they can destroy fleets twice their size with this ability. 

Agreed; repulse isn't as much of a problem, but it's still a big problem.  Mind you after the illuminator "mystery damage" gets fixed, maybe the other LRF will be in a better position to win that shootout.

Meteor Storm and Red Button actually outrange Ogrovs. Ogrovs have a range of 12000, the range of red button is 12000. Meteor Storm has a range of 15000.

I don't think the big red button is so much of an issue, since your opponent does lose the starbase and unless you had a shit load of Ogrovs you're on the winning side of that trade.   As much as I love using meteors to counter Ogrovs, it's clearly too hard a counter to assault cruisers while simultaneously slaughtering whole fleets.

Move the Overseer to Tier 3. Vasari are the only race that needs 4 labs for its first military support cruisers, which is a pretty big disadvantage. Really, overseers are only good at keeping one specific focused target alive, so it could be argued that this needs to be done.

Vasari military tree in general needs some help.  I'd also add the enforcer; unless it gets further buffs, it really needs to be tech level 4, because right now it's just so weak by the standards of heavies, and really needs reintegration just to match the others anyways.

Reply #210 from Sins Forums Top

Amish- I don't think starbase abilities need to be bothered with.  They're a static defence of sorts, which must be researched, and esspecially the big red button shouldn't be touched, because you're sacrificing a starbase anyway.

As for Mag clouds, i say don't bother.  They're there to be annoying.  If anything, i think there should be 1 or 2 MORE annoying GWs out there.  Is it THAT unbelieveable that there are anomolies out there with no beneficial purpose.

So, to be clear:

No to both Map Changes.

Reply #211 from Sins Forums Top

Amish- I don't think starbase abilities need to be bothered with.  They're a static defence of sorts, which must be researched, and esspecially the big red button shouldn't be touched, because you're sacrificing a starbase anyway.

Big Red Button I'll agree, but meteor swarm is too powerful, and effectively makes the starbase counter anti-starbase units.

Reply #212 from Sins Forums Top

In response to moving overseer down in the tech tree:

I say, if vasari are warfare oriented, make ALL their ships come sooner than everyone else, ending with enforcer at tier 6.  That way you'll have vasari's unanimously weak units earlier, where they'll be usefull, and maybe keep up if you stay on top of your ship-buff research.

Note-  I still think vasari is playable as is, and you aren't UBERLY handicapped, but equality would make it better so you don't have to claw tooth and nail while your opponent sips brandy from onboard his Akkan...

Reply #213 from Sins Forums Top

brandy from onboard his Akkan...

Its really good too. ;P

Reply #214 from Sins Forums Top

Amish- I don't think starbase abilities need to be bothered with.

Neither do I. I'd like the range of the ogrov increased. The point of an anti-starbase unit is to kill a starbase, so it's no use if it can't do that.

As for Mag clouds, i say don't bother. They're there to be annoying. If anything, i think there should be 1 or 2 MORE annoying GWs out there. Is it THAT unbelieveable that there are anomolies out there with no beneficial purpose.

Nope. I'm free to bitch and moan as much as I want

I still think vasari is playable as is, and you aren't UBERLY handicapped,

I agree here too, but that doesn't change the fact that I can rattle off a long list of reaons that the Vasari just seem to have a hand tied behind their back unlike the other races.

Reply #215 from Sins Forums Top

Maps

yay to ice/vol

Reply #216 from Sins Forums Top

Only prob with moving overseer to tier 3 is sb rushing.Its a pretty radical change.Moving enforcer to tier 4 is radical too.Thing about gaurds is they are really only effective if you have a progen.They have a ton of shields but once they are gone it takes forever to rebuild them.So they are one of the few supports that can be come nearly useless.

I been thinking about fighter issue and flak.Right now flak does a pretty crappy job at killing bombers so what if flak did less damage to fighters and a tad more to bombers.Make flak useful for both and let fighters live longer.Its kind of weird to me that flak counters fighters better then bombers since bombers are slow and fighters are fast and manuever more.I still think issue should be addressed in next patch.

Reply #217 from Sins Forums Top

Magnetic Clouds: Do not allow starbase deployment. I'm afraid a fully upgraded Orkulus may be too strong in a magnetic cloud well, even without it's abilities. Consider that nano-bomb, shield restore, etc. are also disabled, it may need too much of an attacker advantage.

Ice/Volcanic planets: Increase minimum mines to 3.

Skirmishers: Increase dps

Skirmishers: Do not decrease supply cost

Integration: Earlier activation (Perhaps, a trigger that compares remaining life and dps dealt to the unit, and bases activation time on that? Maybe too complicated, though)

 

I'd like to second Amish's point about hardcoding starting locations. However, I'd like to make it so that the game guarantees that the planets within immediate access from the home planet (within 1 phase jump) cannot be a noncolonizable body. It's much harder to defend, say, a gas giant or magnetic cloud than it is to defend from a lava planetoid, not even counting tax income.

 

Reply #218 from Sins Forums Top

I like the idea of magnetic clouds working as phase jump inhibiters. Maybe slowing down ship movement in general. You'll know you have time to prepare if something jumps into one. Since abilities are useless, it would be harder to destroy everything as the fleet tried to warp out. 

Reply #219 from Sins Forums Top

I may be wrong but wasn't LF ability range increased to 8000 last patch?  That outranges repulse which is 7500 range.

 

[_]-Greyfox

Reply #220 from Sins Forums Top

SB in Magnetic clouds Iw ill say NO

3 mines Minimum for Ice/Volcanic worlds YES

No changes at all to scouts for now.

Skirmisher needs increased DPS or increased reintergration rate/earlier activation. But not booth.

Reply #221 from Sins Forums Top

Only prob with moving overseer to tier 3 is sb rushing.Its a pretty radical change.Moving enforcer to tier 4 is radical too.Thing about gaurds is they are really only effective if you have a progen.They have a ton of shields but once they are gone it takes forever to rebuild them.So they are one of the few supports that can be come nearly useless.

Thing about the overseer is, unlike the other races, overseer does not require pre-requisite research (like shield or repair research) that actually makes it the CHEAPEST support ship to obtain as it requires only 1 more lab and a handful more resources to research. And yes, moving them down would make them obtainable to an SB rusher too early, throwing the balance scales out the window. Overseers have good reason to be in tier 4, and in truth a player who has spent the money to get a hoshis or guardians has spent MORE than a vasari player would have to to plop down an extra lab somehwere and research overseers. I don't see that as a huge disadvantage.

Also: On random maps a roid and an ice/volcanic are hardcoded in, but their phase lanes are not (still random generated by the map which is the reason why people get roid screwed and single phase lane starts, if the phase lanes were hard-coded, that would most certainly fix both problems. It would be nice if a terran/dessert and a asteroid belt were hardcoded in to be near ones hw too (certainly not 1 jump).

Reply #222 from Sins Forums Top

Thing about the overseer is, unlike the other races, overseer does not require pre-requisite research (like shield or repair research) that actually makes it the CHEAPEST support ship to obtain as it requires only 1 more lab and a handful more resources to research

For the TEC, we can safely presume that the repair bay is a sunk cost, so the Hoshiko really has only one technology prerequisite which is increased repair speed for repair bays, which is very useful as it stands.  So the Hoshiko prerequisites basically only slow you down, they aren't extra costs.  Even for the guardian, the shield point upgrades are useful upgrades to begin with, though there they can be thought of as something of an impediment since they would otherwise not be high priorities.

For the Overseer, there are a few things working in favour of moving it down a tier.  First of all, it is certainly the weakest of the three low-level support cruisers.  Secondly, Vasari typically does rely on getting its units out somewhat sooner than the other factions.  Thirdly, Vasari have quite the hardest time of any faction countering LRF and support cruisers to begin with.  Really, I find that until I have subverters on the field I can't do that much against support cruisers at all as Vasari.

Reply #223 from Sins Forums Top

Thing about the overseer is, unlike the other races, overseer does not require pre-requisite research (like shield or repair research) that actually makes it the CHEAPEST support ship to obtain as it requires only 1 more lab and a handful more resources to research. And yes, moving them down would make them obtainable to an SB rusher too early, throwing the balance scales out the window. Overseers have good reason to be in tier 4, and in truth a player who has spent the money to get a hoshis or guardians has spent MORE than a vasari player would have to to plop down an extra lab somehwere and research overseers. I don't see that as a huge disadvantage.

You persuaded me to ur side.

Reply #224 from Sins Forums Top

Bugs:

On Normal Start extractors seem to produce once queued rather than when constructed- I'm not sure whether this is a more general bug yet, can someone confirm it?

Once an Advent AI has researched Homing Mines, its Drone Hosts become entirely ineffective.

Kol and Kortul graphics bugs need to be added.

Balance changes:

No to starbase deployment in magnatic clouds, though I favour the suggested jump time increase.  If starbases can't be deployed there, why do magnetic clouds stop trade though- bug?

No to minimum mines, though I favour the reclassification of ice planets so that they get the same militia as deserts.

No to Orkulus and scout changes.

Add me to the skirmisher dps buff!

The 'lobbers' need to 'lob' to be effective, I'd trade substantial range increases of 50-100% for health and shields- there doesn't seem a good reason why the standard siege shouldn't be a stronger unit than the specialised ones?

The Vasari support cruisers simply need more health, their faction is supposed to be very strong on health, and yet they are far too fragile.

Also... why should the shield-heavy Advent get better repair bays than Vasari...?  Advent bays should be degraded.  I'd improve the Vasari ones to the midpoint of the TEC, 30%.

Further, unless the game's lore is altered substantially, the Advent encounter phase jump inhibitors later than TEC, so they should be later in the tech tree- Tier 5, or Tier 4 if the TEC ones are reduced.

Reply #225 from Sins Forums Top

You persuaded me to ur side.

Thanks Amish.

Darvin-

While repair tech and shield tech may be a "sunk cost" its still a cost, meaning less of your cash is going into other things Prerequisites aren't useless by any stretch, but they're still soaking up money. A vasari player could use the money he saved not researching pre-reqs to purchase similarly useful techs, but do it anytime he wants. And the time it takes to research 2-3 pre-requisite techs is less than it would take to add a fourth lab and research overseers. I have no doubt that if I wanted to, I could rush to Overseers faster than anyone could get guardians or hoshis.

First of all, it is certainly the weakest of the three low-level support cruisers.

I can agree with you there. But again its also the cheapest to research, and its still useful as hell.

Secondly, Vasari typically does rely on getting its units out somewhat sooner than the other factions

I would agree with you if it weren't for quickstart. That huge advantage to having 1 lab lrms was lost in quickstart, so I don't really think they rely on it that much anymore..

Thirdly, Vasari have quite the hardest time of any faction countering LRF and support cruisers to begin with

Vasari do have a hard time countering... illums. But everyone does because theyre bugged, once they fall in line I don't think they'll be as difficult to counter as vasari. As for support cruisers, I'm hoping the skirmisher will get a boost so support cruisers aren't as daunting, but I've never really had a serious support cruiser problem as Vasari.