pendrix

Join Date 04/2006

3v3 guide

from gamereplays.org

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So I have the whole post linked as the external link. However this time only, I will copy and paste the whole thing to here. The original has pictures though (apparently the pics will copy and paste awesome)!!! However, the next ones i start posting will only be in part and you will have to go to gamesreplays.org/demigod to see the whole story.

All right. Today we are talking about 3v3 team compositions and how these games usually turn out. 3v3 is the predominant format as well occurring on Cataract. So what we need to think about are: what the enemy team is running, what demigods we are good at playing, the synergy amongst our Demigods, and how we can stop what the other team is attempting to do.

We will begin with the basic premise of no doubling Demigods and provided is a sample team that is quite good. A good team has two support and a DPS (damage per second) Demigod. The DPS Demigod will not buy any Citadel upgrades, but instead focus on eventually getting artifacts.

Sedna (hybrid; support and later DPS)
Unclean Beast (DPS/tank --- ooze, which means mass HP armor, no helms!)
Frost Torchbearer (purely support, late game 3000 burst; our solo)

It is important that Sedna gets Healing Wind to help support the HP regeneration an ooze build necessitates. Have a Demigod from the 2 person lane grab middle when needed, and maintain the solo in his lane for as long as possible. Against minion teams, the Torchbearer and the Unclean Beast must use effective AoE, as well as make good use of Frost Nova's extended stun on minions. Against push teams, you need to rely on staying in the lane. That means not having to go back to crystal to heal unless they are as well. You also need to use Universal Gadgets and invest in tower upgrades quickly. The game becomes you versus the clock in such a game. Once you survive the first 15 minutes you should be okay, barring a misplay that allows them to capture and hold your portals.

If the enemy teams masses armor, it becomes important for Sedna to get pounce up quickly, as it ignores armor. This team is very strong on disables; you have one on each character. This means that you are calling out when you are going to Foul Grasp or use Frost Nova. What will really win fights is when you disable the enemy Sedna's Heal or Regulus's Mine throw. Late game, stopping Surge of Faith will win group fights. Do not expect any good teams to be using Rook, but it goes without saying that you should interrupt his Hammer Slam should it rear its head. Beyond using your disables as interrupts, it is a good idea to use them preemptively when you expect Queen of Thorns or Sedna to be popping a Bramble Shield or Heal (i.e. when the cool down is close to done and/or an enemy Demigod is hurt). Say we just knocked out a shield, and you think the Queen of Thorns is going to recast it soon. That is when you Frost Nova or Foul Grasp her. Furthermore, you can use Deep Freeze on guys who spam skills to prevent them from doing so.

It is beyond important that your team carry Teleport Scrolls as the game leaves lane play and enters a more free flowing game, where demigods move around the map without the constraints of having to level as much. Teleport Scrolls should be used to move quickly across the map for ganks and/or rapid defense of a teammate being chased or a flag about to be captured. Teleport Scrolls are most effective WHEN THE WHOLE TEAM IS USING THEM! Using other consumables like potions or Capture Locks could bleed you dry and leave you under-equipped or under-upgraded. That is not to say you should not use them but only do so sparingly or with a clear strategy in mind (like race to War Score 10 and Giants so buy lots of Capture Locks).

So something that has been happening more often is teams and/or individual teammates chasing kills. They wound one of the enemy Demigods close to death during a group fight and then chase without regards to what the other two enemies are doing. Should the nearly dead demigod be able to maintain distance, then your team is wasting DPS and allowing the other 2 enemies to attack with impunity. You must change targets here. You as a team must select focus targets and call out the usage of disables. Torchbearer using Frost Nova as the Unclean Beast is Foul Grasping. is redundant. Thus, any true premade must use VOIP software, such as Ventrilo, Teamspeak, or even Xfire. Xfire offers free voice chat even.

I hope you have found these insights into team play useful, and anyone wishing to discuss individual team makes (aka comps short for compositions) and matchups should feel free to PM me. Later I hope to deconstruct some of the more archetypal teams like a push or mass armor reduction setup

demigod

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jefedesign
Silvius

Very useful guide for basic strategies. I agree with every piece of information given here, if people would apply it to their playstyles there would be a lot less grief. Not to mention that the premades would have a harder time killing the less-experienced players.

I would like to see the information you have on the archetype teams, it would be useful to others to see which advantages they have and what their disadvantages are.

Nice guide Pendrix, keep it up.

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Quoting ,

quoting post

Do not expect any good teams to be using Rook

Really?...My team is gonna be heartbroken over this news...Aparently I've been holding them back playing as Rook...

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Well, I would say rook is probably the least used demigod in a competitive atmosphere. I'm not trying to hose him, I like playing rook and he has a spot in push teams, but with his slow ass speed, on maps like prison where there is a lot of movement he will be a liability. Rook needs a lot of help from his team to survive ganks, as he is probably the only demigod that can't just run away b4 they hit if you are paying attention and notice b4 they get to you. The real problem is his DD skill is the easiest skill in the game to interrupt.

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Those are some very well thought out points, Pendrix. I agree with you that he is a phenominal push/lane-control Demigod, which is why in most situations, it is my belief that he's an indispensible part of most teams. That being said, it's important to note that I also believe due to the diversity of the current maps (ie: flag-type, creeps, tower location), that one single team can be just as effective on one map as it can on another.

So far, the key to my success with Rook has been to play off he's many strenghts and improve his enormous weakness (Speed). Firstly, the choice Swift Anklet for Rook's favor item has been key, but also have been the maps that he plays on. I agree with you completely; Rook would become a burden for his team on an open concept map such as Prison. He cannot apply his strenghts well here, nore can he effectively maneuver around the battlefield. In my oppinion, Rook is best suited for narrow laned maps such as: Cataract, Leviathan, Exile, Crucible, and to a lesser extent Zikurat. It is remarkable how fast in these situations rook can make a defensible position, and when lightly opposed, capitalize on that position to push into the opposition's base. From my experience, I've found it easy to hold off a pair Demigods whilst fortified in a lane; even easier with just one. Another important reason that rook excells on these narrow laned maps is that the enemy must split their forces to fight you. Here, the ability to control an area of the map is crucial. If I'm having a hard time on one side of the map this means that 2-3 Demigods are after me, which also means my teammates are crippling the other side of the map unopposed. As to your last point, Hammer Slam quite painful to sit through, however I've always found a great deal of success with a combination of Boulder Roll and Hammer Slam. I've had no problem being able to land accurate hits on Demigods with the short window Boulder Roll I offers, but from reading the forum, I take it that I am on the margin of oppinion when it comes to that combination.

Pendrix, I think you've provided a brilliant summary here. That being said, the comment of "Do not expect any good teams to be using Rook" I consider to be callow and heinous slander and I take personal offence to it. Other than that, I believe your insight and depth of knowledge will be an asset to the Demigod community. Genuinely hoping to read more posts from yourself in the future.

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His statement about the rook might have been abrupt, but based on these numbers it makes sense:

According to the stats below, A team using Regulus, Unclean Beast, and Erebus would generally perform better then a team of QOT, Oak, and Rook. Of course this is dependent on the players, but according to the numbers I came up with there is some logic to his mention. (These stats were created using those from the demigod website)

(in Order of favor/game)
so Regulus is 4,604,175/43,227= 106.511 Favor/game

UB is 4,647,850/43,807= 106.098 favor/game

Erebus is 95.268 Favor/Game

TB is 91.540 favor/game

Sedna is 82.77 Favor/Game

Rook is 82.003 Favor/Game

Oak is 81.088 Favor/game

QOT is 1,317,165/19,125= 68.871 favor/game

Confirmed again in this thread:

http://forums.impulsedriven.com/360711

Essentially, since Favor is a measure of a demigods performance, Favor/game is a measure of A demigods performance within the community. THis also does not favor the most played, or penilize the least played (QOT).

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The community's performance with a Demigod has nothing to do with a Demigod actually being good, not to mention favor points are also a terrible way of showing performance.

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Quoting Shade,

reply 6

The community's performance with a Demigod has nothing to do with a Demigod actually being good, not to mention favor points are also a terrible way of showing performance.

-At current, Favor points are the best way recieve a score on your performance in a game.

-Based on the Favor/Game ratio, one can conclude that a player using regulus will usually recieve more favor, and thus have perfomed better during a game. (yes, this is not always the case. This is just an average of the data over the hundreds of thousads of games played)

I know it's not perfect, but statistically, unless someone identifies a better way to track it, that is how each demigod performs relative to eachover in the community.

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Damn Im crushed! I play the demo and I love playing Rook. Even though I run into trouble vs Erebus because he is almost unkillable :/

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As rook your slow. Erebus is quick and with bat swarm/bite can chase down players who are set up to be fast. He does have an interrupt as well. Carry a teleport and wait for him to stun you. Once he does, port out.

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Quoting Texonater,

reply 7

Quoting Shade, reply 6The community's performance with a Demigod has nothing to do with a Demigod actually being good, not to mention favor points are also a terrible way of showing performance.

-At current, Favor points are the best way recieve a score on your performance in a game.

-Based on the Favor/Game ratio, one can conclude that a player using regulus will usually recieve more favor, and thus have perfomed better during a game. (yes, this is not always the case. This is just an average of the data over the hundreds of thousads of games played)

I know it's not perfect, but statistically, unless someone identifies a better way to track it, that is how each demigod performs relative to eachover in the community.

fortunatly the comm does not share your opinion, at least i never heared that others judge you by your fav points recieved. it would be even very stupid cause there are too many situations it's more than a very very bad indicator.

let it be a sedna that usually has the least fav points at the end cause she get's the least kills, needs quite much money until level 8 so she cannot spent much at citadel, even on assists she gets troouble compaired to others.

sedna is just an extrem example. but it really does not make much sense to take the earned favor points as an indicator. it's very bad. you have better chance to roll the dice. there are to many things a good player can do that would never be seen as favor points cause they didn't directly lead to an assist, or kill or money spent in citadel, only indirectly.

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First off, I love the Rook. He's an awesome demigod, especially on Cataract. I don't think speed is the best way to go on him. Ideally your allies would teleport in to your towers to turn the tide of an uneven battle, or you can tp out.

Also, favor is definitely biased. There is not much consideration for support. Healing with sedna, shielding allies as oak, etc. Sure, reg got tons of favor by sniping everyone, thus racking in asissts, kills, but he easily could've cost the game if it wasn't for that oak shielding him to escape. I've also had situations as Oak where I've done 90% of the damage to a target only to have it randomly die to a spit from a beast that spit once and then ran back to the shop. A killing blow with Oak usually requires a serious commitment into a series of towers. Torch is an obvious damage award favorite with all of his aoe.

The citadel awards as far as I know don't account for the amount invested, but rather quantity. So despite your saving up for cats and giants, you can lose this award to someone buying cheap or useless upgrades.

All in all, a dominating performance will usually by noted by favor, but I still don't think it's a good measurement of a player's ability to win, or character balance.

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What is the best way to determine a Demigod's performance? Favor points really is the best way to do it with the numbers we have available. TB is more prone to favor points than anyone but he's not #1.

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Quoting Polynomial,

reply 12

Win %? Again, I feel like some demigods are simply more prone to earning certain favor awards. You probably won't see a rook capping the most flags, but he's pretty good at holding flags, and capping and holding the game-winning portal flags.

Also, do you get favor points for coming in second? What if you came in second on all awards? And everyone else did good at one thing and terrible at others. You were all around the most solid player but you just didn't stand out enough to get an award, and thus earned the least amount of favor. Doesn't seem right.

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Well to be honest I don't play rook like most play rook actually. Speed is not my problem at all. I stack speed early on, I don't need HP cause I just hide behind my light towers most of the time. I really shine once I get some more gear mid game where I get enough speed to chase people down. Even faster people will die because I got my independent ranged weapons on my shoulders and of course boulder roll

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Favor points are a completely terrible way to judge the power of a DG. All the favor rewards are heavily dependent on the player, moreso than the DG. Many rewards are rigged for certain DGs. Lastly all the favor per game stats are tainted with the results of average and low level play.

Furthermore even overall Win % is not a good way to judge DG power, since those stats are also tainted with the results of average and low level play.

The only thing that matters in discussing DG power is high level play, and the only way to theorize on that is the intuition and experience of high level players (the builds that they have used and faced, the games they have played versus other premades, etc).

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I've said this before in the other thread (there are three, for some reason), but anyways: this guide is good for beginner and intermediate players. Thanks for writing it. Pendrix, I didn't mean to insult you last time, but I was trying to bring you back to Earth because you were acting like this revolutionized high level play, or something.

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All of that said, its ironic that I will have to agree with and defend his point about Rook. There are a lot of Rook players in this thread declaring that they have been personally affronted by the statement that Rook is rare in high level play. All I can say is sometimes the truth hurts. Rook is awesome for slaying noobs, but becomes weak against good opponents who know how to play against him. When playing in your own premade with allies that know how play with a Rook (its a lot different than playing with other DGs) he becomes ok again, but probably still not up to par with most other DGs.

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95% of Demigod players are n00bs. Thus, Rook is 95% awesome! Maybe he is weaker against high-level, organized players. But that boulder to hammer slam combo is so satisfying... I'm assuming good players know better than to stand close enough to be caught by that. I really haven't played many.

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