Raging Amish Raging Amish

Quirks, Irks, and Things that Bother Me TAKE FOUR

Quirks, Irks, and Things that Bother Me TAKE FOUR

First off, I know Deciever has a post with a list of fixes the community is voicing together to have fixed. I applaud his effort, but this post is more of a rant, a run down of just little things that as I've played, things that have annoyed or confused me.

TAKE FOUR

For a third round of redunancy: REPULSE

I still can not stress how much this needs to be addressed.

The Overseer

It needs a 360 degree firing arc like the repair bots on the hoshiko. Also, why is this thing tier 4? Advent get guardians at tier 3. TEC get hoshikos at tier 3. Vasari get their first support cruiser at tier 4. That aint fair. I have to spend the money on another lab AND extra money on the tech for a somewhat less effective version of the hoshiko? Bull.

Also, the tier 4 and 5 abilities on this ship are laughable. Unless that 50% extra jump time gives you enough time to take out a specific target (PJI or a lightly upgraded starbase), it's useless. So you can see them jumping in? OOOOOOO boy, that's exciting. Never mind the econ tree techs where I can see 1, 2 jumps, and then EVERYTHING at tier 8. The 2 jumps is probably a bit more accurate. It's a bit cheaper in total and in the end probalby a better overall option than the overseer if you wanna see what ur opponent's doing.

Strikecraft cost no $$$ to replace

This one irks me a lot. My opponent can jump in with 10 carriers, 30 squads of fighters, take out whatever he can of my lrf's/bombers/scouts/whatever, then jump out, and replenish his losses at NO COST. Meanwhile I must pay to replace the frigs I lost. Bull. Strikecraft shouldn't be ridiculously expensive. No, then they'd be useless, but right now, i don't like the system.

 

If I could have my way I'd:

1. I'd lower the health and shields of all lrfs as they stand by 10%. I've never understood why these units are so tough. From the description you see in game, these are supposed to be like archers. They do a lot of damage at a longer range, but are very weak and frail, so can easily be destroyed by something that gets up close. As it stands Illums on paper look as strong if not stronger than Enforcers, and LRMs + Assailants are fleets that are so tough that they can just make enemy siege frigates go *pop*.

Lrf's will still crush light frigs, but you'd actually be able to counter lrfs now. Maybe. I don't know if 10% would be enough, but considering I'm already suggesting to nerf the Illum, a 10% additional nerf is appropriate.

1a. If 1 does or doesn't happen, I'd lower the Illum health by 100 and the armor by one. Illums have the best health and shields of the lrfs. Shields yes. Health should be worst. Also, LRFs need a slight nerf in shields and assailants need a slight buff in shields for balance of the lrfs.

In order for shields from toughtest to worst it should be advent, vasari, tec.

In order for health from toughest to worst it should be tec, vasari, advent.

2. Because of the fix I propose in 1a, I'd probably have to nerf flak. Flak already can just barely beat lrfs. With that fix, Flak would now crush lrfs and fighters. To fix this, I'd lower the multiplier against light armor by either 25% or 50%. I'm leaning towards 25%. Flak wouldn't be as effective against bombers anymore, but then again, you're not supposed to use flak on bombers anyway. Still, perhaps the hit % could be upped on bombers. In theory, bombers move slower and wouldn't be as hard to hit (Battle of Midway and the torpedo bombers anyone?), so giving a 100% hit rate against bombers would help offset the damage reduction I'm proposing against bombers.

3. I'd upp the anti-heavy armor bonus that light frigs get by 25%.

4. Leave flak as is against fighters. Something needs to be able to crush fighters. This is the only thing that counters them. Fighters are made for free and at the cost of antimatter. Something has to be able to do it. Perhaps nerf flak slightly, but do it too hard and carrier spam will become popular again.

5. Up repulses cost for antimatter per second to 12-15 antimatter per second.

My main point is #1. I realize that to do that fix, this game would need a series of rebalances, but then again, the game isn't exactly balanced as is (as exemplified by the fact that no one uses light frigs). I've never understood why lrf's are so tough. When the devs saw the Illum was weak way back in 1.03 or 1.04, whatever it was, they didn't bring the other lrfs down to it. No. They brought the Illum up. Up so far it crushes just about anything. I'm going to be testing to see if that anything includes enforcers.

TAKE THREE

For a second round of redunancy: REPULSE

If there was a way to force the guardian to stay and not break the "channeling ability", it'd be fine. One use of repulse would take 210 antimatter. As is the unit can break the channel at any time and save 150 100 antimatter ish and 7-8 can fire indefinitely. So....

IT STILL NEEDS FIXING

The Random Map Generator use of "Random - any"

Go to the map creator. You'll notice that there is a planet type called "Random - any". I think this is overly used in the random map generator. This is where the complete randomness of the maps come from and is the source of my hatred for about 20% of the maps we play. Anything can end up here, and what you see is that by having too many randoms, people can get boned by the map and not have any planets or neutrals near them.

Clarification - Vasari Starbase

I want to revise my sentiment here. I think the construction rate of this should be the same as Advent and TEC starbases, and that in enemy grav wells it should get a -25% build rate penalty. Maybe 50%. What I'd really like is to have the armor taken away from it while being constructed. Why is a target that's under construction getting the full defensatory bonus it would get only if fully up and running?

 

TAKE TWO

For redunancy: REPULSE

Its still pisses me off.

The Vasari In General

Anyone else notice that with Vasari you're crossing your fingers for neutrals? This race is a gamble to pick in my mind, because how effective you are is pretty much linked to how many neutrals you find. Assailants are weak and only good at taking out capital ships. The enforcer is the worst HC. The Skirmisher does 10 dps, as much as a cobalt, but still takes up 2 extra ship slots. The Scout is the worst for combat purposes. You need the $$$ to offset this loss, and if there aren't neutrals, your job gets a lot tougher.

Add in the wrench of the starbase. This thing to me is a gigantic glorified frigate. The Vasari frigates aren't strong enough. The starbase is too strong and too easy to tech. You can't use Ogrovs against it as effectively cause they gotta move...stopping them from firing. Guess my biggest quarrel is how effective they are early game. The only thing that can have a prayer to fight off a starbase in the first 20 min is Advent bombers (because tier 2), or long range frigates. That's it. They are too tough and construct too quickly in enemy grav wells.

Quick construction in friendly grav wells? Absolutely. In enemy grav wells? Cut it to half the rate of the construction a TEC or Advent one. It's too powerful otherwise in early games.

One Phase Lane Homeworld Starts

This actually is very VERY disadvantageous and needs to be addressed in the random map generator. For lack of better words, getting boned by the map aint right. Getting a ton of magnetic clouds and neutrals instead of planets is one thing. Having fewer phase hurts in two ways. First, you lose tactical options. Instead of expanding in one of several directions, you can only expand in one way....which sucks. Second, your eco is hurt. Badly. Essentially you're eco takes a 10% hit because instead of having 90% and 80% allegiance planets, you get 80% and 70% allegiance planets because everything is now further from your homeworld.

Randomness of Neutrals

Two things with this. 1, I'm sick of maps that are completely loaded with neutrals. The only way you can hand the Vasari a game even more is to hand them a stuffed human (normal or with psionic ability) with an apple in its mouth. In the random map generator, I'd like it if fewer planets were completely random and could instead be set to be.....sound the trumpets....planets. Don't take away all the neutrals, but sometimes there are just simply too many.

2. There can be anywhere from 0-3 neutrals in a grav well. That's a bit lopsided don't you think? I realize most times maps randomize and actually stay pretty fair, but about 25% of the time it feels like my opponent has 3 grav wells with 3 neutrals per well, and meanwhile I've got three magnetic clouds all saying "Screw You Amish Guy".

No Allegiance on Neutrals

There is no allegiance on neutrals......yeah...that makes sense. Ok, maybe playing all fast in multiplayer screws with this perspective. It seems neutrals either are nonexistent or completely give the game to a player. I'd really like to see them reworked. You could lower their income or up their income but give them an allegiance factor. Either way, I know I don't like what the game has now. I've had a map with Vasari where I had 21 metal per second without taking  single lava planet or buildng a single refinery. It aint right. Just plain wrong.

Magnetic Clouds

Have you guys ever actually fought in a Magnetic Cloud? I know I haven't. Taking a fight here is an act of desperation rather than an act of tactics. I don't think I've ever had the opportunity to fight an Advent in a magnetic cloud. He just jumps out and waits for me elsewhere so he can use his abilities. As of the moment, Magnetic Clouds are nothing more than glorified space wasters that just add more time for your scouts to explore. You shouldn't be happy if you see these within the first 2 jumps of ur homeworld. It aint fun.

 2 mine Ices and Lavas

Ever had that night where you're playing sins and the map just doesn't wanna give you a break? Not only are you boned by the map, but you also get to expand to a lava that has.....TWO mines!

I like the randomness of mines on planets. I do. 2-3 on Terrans and Deserts makes sense. These planets offer more population, so the emphasis here isn't minerals. It's credit income. Especially with the extra logistic slots.

I don't get why Lavas and Ices can have from 2-4. It should be 3-4. The WHOLE POINT of an ice or lava is to get extra income of ONE type of mineral. I can not tell you the number of times games get more frustrating because I have 3 of these 2 mine suckers, and meanwhile my opponent has a lava and an ice with 4 mines a piece. It's like being a he man taking a pitchfork to the back of the head but the pitchfork doesn't do brain damage. You're just gonna keep going and try to muscle through it, but in the back of your head, something aint right.

Take One

The Uselessness of Light Frigates

I'm probably not giving anyone a revelation with this one, but thanks to long range frigates, light frigs can't get anywhere near support crusiers to do their job. Really, if you think about it, the only time it would ever make sense to make a large contingent of light frigs in your fleet is if your opponent spammed flak. Even then, the damage multiplier LF's get against heavy armor is only +50%, which just isn't enough for the meaty flak and all of it's health. I'd like the multiplier to be increased to something in the ballpark of 200% at least, maybe even higher. Seriously. Right now if you see someone making a ton of cobalts, you just laugh.

The way it should be is you see light frigs coming for your support cruisers and ur reaction is "Oh Crap, get them out of there"

The OP of Repulse

Not going into detail, as it's not news. I'd like light frig abilities to outrange repulse. That'd help....a little. You could fix repulse by either upping the delay between uses (to say....like 30 seconds to a minute), or by upping the antimatter costs. Personally, I'd like the latter so someone can't abuse it insanely, but either'd work.

The OP of Illums

Not going into detail either. It's not news.

  Hull Armor Shields Damage Ship Slots used
Kodiaks 6300 5 3600 108 60
Crusaders 4650 4 4950 114 60
Enforcers 5875 4 3500 100 60
Illum 6200 2 5500 166 60
Assailant 6000 2 3600 130 60
LRM 7000 1 4200 165 60

What I don't grasp here is why the Illum's health is so high. It should be TEC health = highests, Vasari Middle Man, Advent third. This is the theme of the races that sets them apart. For some reason though, the Illum's health is very very high. It should be around 5000 for 10 illums, or 500 health for each Illum. That might help some of the problems with Illums. The DPS is ok. It should be the highest for all the races considering it's Tier 3. It should not have 620 health and 2 armor. It should be lowered to 500 health and 1 armor. That'd help with balance.

Assailant Weakness

On a related subject, why is the assailant the worst for shields overall? Shouldn't that be TEC?

Starbase Spamming

This is a wierd wierd phenomenon I've seen. You typically see this on 5v5 maps where there are 3-5 allies bunched on one side of the map and the feeder has all the time in the world to get a monster eco going. This person, instead of getting a fleet, will put a starbase at EACH and EVERY system, including neutral sites, and support purely with econ and starbases at each planet. Oh, and they'll probably mix in the superweapons.

I figured out this is something that a large contingent of bombers can cure, but it's just wierd to see. You spend all your money on a "fleet" of stuff that either can't move (TEC/Advent), or is stuck in one system (Vasari). Ok, with the TEC, each starbase gets red button, so any one starbase can destroy a fleet, and Advent get meteor and Mass Disorient, so that's nasty too. For the record, I get why it's not a bad idea. You keep a high eco and your empire is well defended with strong buildings. I get it.

I just liked it better back in vanilla where my fleet could just keep rolling on through cause aint no one gonna stop me. Just nostalgia I guess.

The Enforcer/Skirmisher Nerf

Each of these ships gets reintegration. In exhange for this though, the devs nerfed the damage these do. JJ has already shown that the enforcer is the relatively weakest HC. I say the enforcer get's reintegration, so it makes the issue "fuzzy". What I don't get is why the skirmisher does 10 dps and the enforcer does 20. The enforcer should arguably be doing 24 dps, but I think I like the idea of 22 better.

The skirmisher takes up 7 ship slots and does 10 dps. The Cobalt takes up 5 and 10 dps. The disciple takes up 4 and does 8 dps. The pattern is 2 dps per ship slot. So why does the skirmisher only do 10 dps? I know it gets reintegration, so giving it 14 dps would be unfair, but jesus, a 30% nerf in damage to compensate for reintegration is excessive. I'd like to see it upped to 12 dps.

The Advent Culture Cannon

This superweapon is just overall odd. Vasari and TEC superweapons are direct and to the point. 2 Novalith shots take out 1 planet. The Kotsura cannon, although expensive, requires no pre-research to get and gets a discount with slave labor, and with 3-4 you can disamantle enemy fleets, plus, it opens up a phase lane for phase stabilizers. Sounds good to me.

The way I think it could work is if the culture would last a little longer. I think the right amount of time would be so that I could fire at the area, fire somewhere else, and then fire there again, and the culture from the first shot would still be there when the third shot got there. That'd help because then your opponents would ACTUALLY be forced to do something about the culture cannon. As of the moment, it's too easy to just get media hubs and spread a few more than you usually would around your empire to counter it.

Fighter Futility

Flak are very strong against them. So strong to the point that I'd say that this counter is just as strong as using lrf's against lf's. If light frigs could dismantle flak quickly, we might have a solution, but at the moment, it's reeeally hard to make an arguement for fighters when you're going to lose them so quickly to flak. Upping the antimatter regen rate of the carriers might help with this. (just a suggestion)

The Wave Tree

Why are these upgrades at tier 4,5, and 7? Why? They need to be waaaaay lower. Tier 2,4, and 5 respectively.

The Capital Colonizing Bonus for TEC and Vasari

The Vasari bonus seems a little iffy. 20% faster build for some time. 20? Just 20? Advent get 20% discount per level, and the vasari just quicker build times? This might help for rushing, but this needs to be a bit more drastic than that. I'd say go a minimum up to 50%. Up the build rate and how long it lasts with the up of colonize. At the moment, there's absolutely no incentive to bother with level 2 colonize until the egg reaches level 9.

The TEC bonus perplexes me even more. The bonus is 0,1,2 extractors built for free. So no bonus at level 1 for TEC? That seems a bit unfair. Shouldn't it be something like 1,2,3. What I'd like is for it to be 1, 2, 4.

Terran Upgrade is linked to Desert Upgrade for Advent

Tier 1, you must tech desert before you tech terran. Why? The Vasari are ALIENS and can up their terran pop % at level 1.

Culture Killing Rate

I think my beef here is that you up your own % by .10%/s, but only take down your enemy by .07%/s max. I'd like for the two values to be the same.

Quick Start in Online Matches

This might be nostalgia talking, but I don't like quick start. Like, at all. I know, quick start takes probably about 15-20 minutes out the game, but that's what made rushing so annoying now, and has brought Illums to the forefront of being OP.

What I miss is that you could build 3 scouts, have them explore, and you'd actually have about a 10 min warning of if your opponent is rushing. Now....you just know your opponent is gonna be rushing if he's at least slightly experienced. Takes the fun out of the game when you can't go out and get some planets before the big fight.

Just miss the olden days. That's all.

 

 

That's all I got for now.

 

 

 

71,849 views 167 replies
Reply #76 Top

Nay Nay Astax (Sorry, been listening to a lot of John Pinnette lately). 6 jumps away? Hell, if he's 4 jumps away with the way I play getting ice+lava is no problem. Believe it or not the reason I started using scouts for combat wasn't for human opponents, it was for pirates. Granted the process has evolved, but getting ice/lava never has and never will be a problem in my book.

Reply #77 Top

I don't think that the Orky itself is the problem. Its the Ogrovs and the Starfish. If the enemy fails to bring the proper counter, then he deserves to suffer and have a rapidly building SB and his planet. Slowing down the build time is bad on principle because that means that the attacker is disadvantaged regardless of whether his opponent brought the right counters or not. The Orky is only good for combat unlike the other SBs. Nerfing this should only happen if colony pods gets a boost. Boosting the (early game especially) counters to SBs is the key imo.

 

Reply #78 Top

true..but heres the problem. the orky gets its armor & such while building. also. because assault cruisers have to run out to the orky, they do so slowly (speed hit from flying away from planet). also, assault cruisers early game eat up ridiculous amounts of fleet supply (18 a pop) meaning 1. the defender can only deploy a few and 2. the attacker's fleet can just blow them up with SC(even if it means sacrificing said sc).

but its kinda whatever to me.

REPULSE

Its still pisses me off.

i always thought of repulse as more of a tactical ability, having real applications. such as keeping things back from the progens. or (one i've never got around to trying) place some mines & guardians around the phase lane exits of your border worlds, then when something shows up, repulse it into the mines. never had much interest in spamming it.

it is supposed to have a long cooldown?- make the cooldown time equal to the current cooldown + the duration of the ability; punishment for early cancellation.

alternatively you could also make it have a 25-50% speed penalty or some such for all friendly ships in its AoE from the strength of interference.

Reply #79 Top

Yeah, Astax is right.  Quick Start allows many more options.  Rather than the forced long drawn out series of (optionless) moves before.  The only real old choice was: whether or not to take the 4th Terran pop upgrade.  (Just look at the 'build order' posts.  20+ minutes of the same boring moves in every old game).

I don't think that the Orky itself is the problem.
 

I also disagree that the Vasari SB (the 'Orky') builds too fast.  It doesn't!  I've tested it, timed it, and experimented with it.  And, in enemy territory, it doesn't build fast enuf!  I can provide the construction times, if you want.  Any race can kill it from the very start, with the available fleet (tier 1), without any difficulty...  Before it even starts firing (completes building)...  Even on a rush map, like Point Blank. 

Yeah, you have to attack as soon as you see it - with all or most of your available fleet at that point.  But once you kill it, you've gained 400 experience points, and dealt a significant hit  to your opponent (like losing a cap ship)!  Its a BIG risk to try build one in enemy territory!

Oh, besides the Egg's Nano bomb, I believe: the Marza's Radiation Bomb, and the Radiance's Detonate Antimatter, also both bypass sheilds and deal damage directly to hull.  So they both can take down a baby SB especially fast as well.

Reply #80 Top

Orkulus rarely has antimatter to detonate and its rare that one is built as the first cap anyways.  Unless you have a semi-large fleet sitting there when the SB is started(generally not produced by the time you are SB rushed), the SB finishes being built just fine and usually gets in at least 1 upgrade.  Its a risk but generally not that big of one.  If its accompanied with a handful of assailants and an egg then they can just pick off your fleet as it tries to take down the bigger threat of a SB.  It requires scrambling to get some bombers to kill the thing off or a buttload of LRF which is difficult to do early on.  It certainly does build fast enough(questionably too fast) to make a difference.

 

[_]-Greyfox

Reply #81 Top

SageWon, Astax, I should be clear. I respect both of your opinions. I see both of your points completely and understand why you support these ideas, but when it comes to my opinion of quick start my position is unyielding. I liked the opening 10 min of gathering intel. I'm not sitting staring at the screen ever. I'm always microing the scouts to scout the map, figure out what the map looks like, and then gauging what I should do.

Quick start gets real old real fast to me. You say the game was templated? Look at it now with quick start. Since you get a better eco from the start, I've seen way too many people that do

Build X Labs

Tech LRF

SPAM LRF

Rush Opponent

If you find a third non ice/lava along the way, great

Quick start basically eliminates the econ tree. The only thing I see people bother to get on this tree is typically the ice/lava tech. I'm not a rusher. I second guess myeslef  and don't take enough chances to be a good rusher. What I am is detail oriented (one of my posts may have given this away) and great at setting up an eco to overwhelm my opponent with. even on the front. Quickstart took this away on 4v4/5v5 single star, and that's the most common game played by the community. So maybe you can see where my dislike for quickstart comes from.

Reply #82 Top

I disagree with quick start taking away the econ tree.  I use the econ tree since quick start a lot more than I did with previous normal starts.  I generally don't build either lab until I know whats around me anyways but back previously I would build military labs before seeing anything.  With quick start I can choose to brace for a rush, econ, or rush myself because I am not hemmed into doing just one thing because before I had to be prepared very quickly for a vasari rushing with assailants and egg.  The main decision without quick start is whether or not you can afford to get the pop upgrade right off or delay to fight off a rush.  Plus the fact that it speeds things up in a game that can be very long is nice. 

 

[_]-Greyfox

Reply #83 Top

I also dislike the slightly too random maps. Thanks for pointing it out amish.

(its too bad every game I have played with you has ended with one of us leaving early do to rl/minidumps/whatever.)

Reply #85 Top

Clarification - Vasari Starbase

Would you still then be able to upgrade its build speed so it builds normal? Seems like thats the way it should be anyway.

And I agree Random-Any really really sucks. and I also agree with you that lrfs should be more like archers. I always thought that the back bones of peoples fleet should start out being light frigs and then heavy cruisers. I wonder what the game would be like if lrf and lf roles were reversed, ie lrfs were to take out flaks, support and carriers, and lfs were to take out lrfs. that would be weird.

Anyway I always thought lrfs were units that sacrficed health/shields/armor for firepower and range (like an archer), but currently that isnt the case.

Reply #86 Top

Really tho carriers should be the backbone of a fleet and if they fix fighters lrf die so easy there is no reason for this.They will be so worthless if they nerf them like you are suggesting.Also if they change the damage that lrf do to lf so that 10 lrf dont kill 25-30 lf before they kill anything you will see much more lf imo.I always think of lrf as the middle combat ship inbetween lf and hc so to me it makes sense they are generally more powerful than lf.

Reply #87 Top

Quite simply, I think for the random generator after the map's creation an algorithm needs to evaluate what each player has within 3 or 4 jumps of his homeworld and tweak it if there's too much militia or too few planets.  Random-any is fine, it makes each solar system created by random very different.  The problem is solely what (and how much...) ends up in close proximity to your start location.

Reply #88 Top

Nerfing the Orky would be a very bad idea.

If it can't build very quickly inside enemy grav-wells then what can it do? Nothing! It would become useless. The Orky is an offensive SB that kills stuff. If it isn't good at that, then it isn't good at anything.

 

Why is a target that's under construction getting the full defensatory bonus it would get only if fully up and running?

Because it is an OFFENSIVE structure. It it was defenceless when building it would be USELESS. It needs to be able to survive if the enemy is shooting it and it is being built because thats what it is designed for. It is already a massive gamble to build one in an enemy grav-well anyway.

Anyway, I don't like the excessive randomness of random maps either.

Reply #89 Top

I gotta disagree with your hate on the Vas Starbase... it really needs the fast build time in an enemy system. It's really all we've got to take out a well defended system, and it is a BITCH to actually get that thing up and running. As it stands, the upgrades still take the full length of time to achieve... which gives the defender plenty of time to destroy a relatively weak Star Base that just sprung up in his well.

Chances are, your star base incursion will fail miserably unless you have atleast a moderate fleet (with plenty of overseers) there to defend it. In this regard, it's little different than a few anti-structure ships, with the exception of it costing considerably more resources (and time) to set up.

I will give into this point though: It's very strong against the A.I.; but that is not a failing of the star base, it's a failing of the A.I.'s behavior relative to the threat.

A human opponent should have little difficulty in stopping an attack such as this, which means that the Vasari will typically have to expend considerably more time to clear out a system than the other races... and utilize a more expensive fleet to do so. In fact, it seems the cost of Vasari ships is exhorbitant throughout the game, especially when related to their effectiveness.

-Itharus

Reply #90 Top

I think the biggest complaint on Vas starbase construction is that early in the game, its still builds quite rapidly but take quite a few ships to destroy, often more than anyone has at that point. Later in the game they aren't quite as menacing because of fleet sizes.

One thing I am curious about is why it is a tier 2 tech. Every other races starbase AND assault cruisers are tier 3, why isn't the Orky? This tends to allow the Orkulus rush to occur, when an opponent barely has a fleet large enough to manage it.

Reply #91 Top

just a thought sincefighters cant get into teh ranks of a battleball of flak and lrms why not try alot of bombers? i know they dont do alot fo damage but they are better than nothing plus flak wont protect a cap which is proly leading the attack. if you take out the cap you pretty much stop his campaighn dead in its tracks. as hes trying to get another cap to bomb your worlds continue to push out bombers and focus them on his falk once you have taken out enough of them then start building fighters

 

Reply #92 Top

oh and deceicer the orky is teir 2 cus the vasari are supposed to be very mobile and aggresive this is the way the devs wanted it.

Reply #93 Top

What really irritates me is the fact that a few TEC repair bays can repair any structure faster then an Orky can destroy them. One time, I could not even get a metal extractor below half health with an Orky attacking it because the repair bays are so good. I don't think that repair bays are OP, only that the Orky does miserably low damage to structures.

Reply #94 Top

Quoting JuleTron, reply 18
What really irritates me is the fact that a few TEC repair bays can repair any structure faster then an Orky can destroy them. One time, I could not even get a metal extractor below half health with an Orky attacking it because the repair bays are so good. I don't think that repair bays are OP, only that the Orky does miserably low damage to structures.

i'm guessing you didn't have weapon upgrades on the orky....repair bays can only do 40/sec max so it should go down if slowly.

Reply #95 Top

Quoting superfleet, reply 16
just a thought sincefighters cant get into teh ranks of a battleball of flak and lrms why not try alot of bombers? i know they dont do alot fo damage but they are better than nothing plus flak wont protect a cap which is proly leading the attack. if you take out the cap you pretty much stop his campaighn dead in its tracks. as hes trying to get another cap to bomb your worlds continue to push out bombers and focus them on his falk once you have taken out enough of them then start building fighters

 

The main problem is that getting sufficient Carriers is extremely expensive, and enough Flak will still take out Bombers. Vasari have a much easier time with this because of Phase Missiles, but taking out all the Flak and any Capitals with only Bombers just to clear ways for Fighters would take too much time to be viable. Also to be considered is that Advent battleballs can crush all SC with a Halcyon with Telekinetic Push. Finally, I'd think that building Bombers, then scuttling them and building Fighters may not work by the large antimatter costs of SCs.

Reply #96 Top

Terran Upgrade is linked to Desert Upgrade for Advent

Tier 1, you must tech desert before you tech terran. Why? The Vasari are ALIENS and can up their terran pop % at level 1
It says in the description that Advent originate from a Desert planet. So it makes sense.
What doesn't make sense is that they always start from a terran planet ;p.

Reply #97 Top

oh and deceicer the orky is teir 2 cus the vasari are supposed to be very mobile and aggresive this is the way the devs wanted it.

The Base itself is very mobile and aggressive, so I think the low tier is a little overkill. Surely the devs wanted it this way, but I take issue with the fact that and Orkulus can be contructed before the thing its designed to destroy, and before anything thats designed to destroy it. And yes I am aware that there are several ships whose counters are a higher tech, but this isn't a ship, its a starbase, a structure that, when first constructed, is stronger than a Cap ship for a fraction of the cost, and can quickly be upgraded to be more powerful than any early game tier 2 fleet.

Reply #98 Top

As far as the tec repair vs ork I would think the orky wasnt designed to kill all structures faster then can be repaired for the following reasons:The orky is a long term seige weapon and can survive and soak up large amounts of dps for long time.It wasnt ment to be used by itself but with a fleet to take down largely defended wells.So if it could kill a sb and all structures byitself it would be largely op.It can target up to 16 structures at once quickly wearing am reserves of a repair bay.

Reply #99 Top

Quoting Deceiver_0, reply 22

The Base itself is very mobile and aggressive, so I think the low tier is a little overkill. Surely the devs wanted it this way, but I take issue with the fact that and Orkulus can be contructed before the thing its designed to destroy, and before anything thats designed to destroy it. And yes I am aware that there are several ships whose counters are a higher tech, but this isn't a ship, its a starbase, a structure that, when first constructed, is stronger than a Cap ship for a fraction of the cost, and can quickly be upgraded to be more powerful than any early game tier 2 fleet.
Sorry, but I disagree. There is no problem with orky being T2 for me.
It takes 3000 credits to field one of those beetchaez, upgrading it takes further credits AND assault deployment is like... T4?. If Vasari are meant to be mobile, then throwing a couple thousands of credits on a floating brick that can't leave its gravwell is a step back in evolution for'em. In late game, you can build one of these. If you build it when everyone's T2, you just shot yourself in the face, cause they're gonna colonize the map as you're marvelling at your giant octopus.

Reply #100 Top

f you build it when everyone's T2, you just shot yourself in the face, cause they're gonna colonize the map as you're marvelling at your giant octopus.

That is unless that giant octupus is deployed anywhere containing enemy key structures like labs. Or when you lose th bulk of your early game fleet trying to destroy one. and credit cost means nothing in team games, when all you have to do is say "feed for SB" and then have the means to cripple your nearest opponent. I realize that the Orky is pretty much the only thing Vasari have going for them, but just like illuminators, races shouldnt have to rely on 1 thing to win. Every race needs some serious rebalancing to correct the one dimensional gameplay that currently exists.