Raging Amish Raging Amish

Quirks, Irks, and Things that Bother Me TAKE FOUR

Quirks, Irks, and Things that Bother Me TAKE FOUR

First off, I know Deciever has a post with a list of fixes the community is voicing together to have fixed. I applaud his effort, but this post is more of a rant, a run down of just little things that as I've played, things that have annoyed or confused me.

TAKE FOUR

For a third round of redunancy: REPULSE

I still can not stress how much this needs to be addressed.

The Overseer

It needs a 360 degree firing arc like the repair bots on the hoshiko. Also, why is this thing tier 4? Advent get guardians at tier 3. TEC get hoshikos at tier 3. Vasari get their first support cruiser at tier 4. That aint fair. I have to spend the money on another lab AND extra money on the tech for a somewhat less effective version of the hoshiko? Bull.

Also, the tier 4 and 5 abilities on this ship are laughable. Unless that 50% extra jump time gives you enough time to take out a specific target (PJI or a lightly upgraded starbase), it's useless. So you can see them jumping in? OOOOOOO boy, that's exciting. Never mind the econ tree techs where I can see 1, 2 jumps, and then EVERYTHING at tier 8. The 2 jumps is probably a bit more accurate. It's a bit cheaper in total and in the end probalby a better overall option than the overseer if you wanna see what ur opponent's doing.

Strikecraft cost no $$$ to replace

This one irks me a lot. My opponent can jump in with 10 carriers, 30 squads of fighters, take out whatever he can of my lrf's/bombers/scouts/whatever, then jump out, and replenish his losses at NO COST. Meanwhile I must pay to replace the frigs I lost. Bull. Strikecraft shouldn't be ridiculously expensive. No, then they'd be useless, but right now, i don't like the system.

 

If I could have my way I'd:

1. I'd lower the health and shields of all lrfs as they stand by 10%. I've never understood why these units are so tough. From the description you see in game, these are supposed to be like archers. They do a lot of damage at a longer range, but are very weak and frail, so can easily be destroyed by something that gets up close. As it stands Illums on paper look as strong if not stronger than Enforcers, and LRMs + Assailants are fleets that are so tough that they can just make enemy siege frigates go *pop*.

Lrf's will still crush light frigs, but you'd actually be able to counter lrfs now. Maybe. I don't know if 10% would be enough, but considering I'm already suggesting to nerf the Illum, a 10% additional nerf is appropriate.

1a. If 1 does or doesn't happen, I'd lower the Illum health by 100 and the armor by one. Illums have the best health and shields of the lrfs. Shields yes. Health should be worst. Also, LRFs need a slight nerf in shields and assailants need a slight buff in shields for balance of the lrfs.

In order for shields from toughtest to worst it should be advent, vasari, tec.

In order for health from toughest to worst it should be tec, vasari, advent.

2. Because of the fix I propose in 1a, I'd probably have to nerf flak. Flak already can just barely beat lrfs. With that fix, Flak would now crush lrfs and fighters. To fix this, I'd lower the multiplier against light armor by either 25% or 50%. I'm leaning towards 25%. Flak wouldn't be as effective against bombers anymore, but then again, you're not supposed to use flak on bombers anyway. Still, perhaps the hit % could be upped on bombers. In theory, bombers move slower and wouldn't be as hard to hit (Battle of Midway and the torpedo bombers anyone?), so giving a 100% hit rate against bombers would help offset the damage reduction I'm proposing against bombers.

3. I'd upp the anti-heavy armor bonus that light frigs get by 25%.

4. Leave flak as is against fighters. Something needs to be able to crush fighters. This is the only thing that counters them. Fighters are made for free and at the cost of antimatter. Something has to be able to do it. Perhaps nerf flak slightly, but do it too hard and carrier spam will become popular again.

5. Up repulses cost for antimatter per second to 12-15 antimatter per second.

My main point is #1. I realize that to do that fix, this game would need a series of rebalances, but then again, the game isn't exactly balanced as is (as exemplified by the fact that no one uses light frigs). I've never understood why lrf's are so tough. When the devs saw the Illum was weak way back in 1.03 or 1.04, whatever it was, they didn't bring the other lrfs down to it. No. They brought the Illum up. Up so far it crushes just about anything. I'm going to be testing to see if that anything includes enforcers.

TAKE THREE

For a second round of redunancy: REPULSE

If there was a way to force the guardian to stay and not break the "channeling ability", it'd be fine. One use of repulse would take 210 antimatter. As is the unit can break the channel at any time and save 150 100 antimatter ish and 7-8 can fire indefinitely. So....

IT STILL NEEDS FIXING

The Random Map Generator use of "Random - any"

Go to the map creator. You'll notice that there is a planet type called "Random - any". I think this is overly used in the random map generator. This is where the complete randomness of the maps come from and is the source of my hatred for about 20% of the maps we play. Anything can end up here, and what you see is that by having too many randoms, people can get boned by the map and not have any planets or neutrals near them.

Clarification - Vasari Starbase

I want to revise my sentiment here. I think the construction rate of this should be the same as Advent and TEC starbases, and that in enemy grav wells it should get a -25% build rate penalty. Maybe 50%. What I'd really like is to have the armor taken away from it while being constructed. Why is a target that's under construction getting the full defensatory bonus it would get only if fully up and running?

 

TAKE TWO

For redunancy: REPULSE

Its still pisses me off.

The Vasari In General

Anyone else notice that with Vasari you're crossing your fingers for neutrals? This race is a gamble to pick in my mind, because how effective you are is pretty much linked to how many neutrals you find. Assailants are weak and only good at taking out capital ships. The enforcer is the worst HC. The Skirmisher does 10 dps, as much as a cobalt, but still takes up 2 extra ship slots. The Scout is the worst for combat purposes. You need the $$$ to offset this loss, and if there aren't neutrals, your job gets a lot tougher.

Add in the wrench of the starbase. This thing to me is a gigantic glorified frigate. The Vasari frigates aren't strong enough. The starbase is too strong and too easy to tech. You can't use Ogrovs against it as effectively cause they gotta move...stopping them from firing. Guess my biggest quarrel is how effective they are early game. The only thing that can have a prayer to fight off a starbase in the first 20 min is Advent bombers (because tier 2), or long range frigates. That's it. They are too tough and construct too quickly in enemy grav wells.

Quick construction in friendly grav wells? Absolutely. In enemy grav wells? Cut it to half the rate of the construction a TEC or Advent one. It's too powerful otherwise in early games.

One Phase Lane Homeworld Starts

This actually is very VERY disadvantageous and needs to be addressed in the random map generator. For lack of better words, getting boned by the map aint right. Getting a ton of magnetic clouds and neutrals instead of planets is one thing. Having fewer phase hurts in two ways. First, you lose tactical options. Instead of expanding in one of several directions, you can only expand in one way....which sucks. Second, your eco is hurt. Badly. Essentially you're eco takes a 10% hit because instead of having 90% and 80% allegiance planets, you get 80% and 70% allegiance planets because everything is now further from your homeworld.

Randomness of Neutrals

Two things with this. 1, I'm sick of maps that are completely loaded with neutrals. The only way you can hand the Vasari a game even more is to hand them a stuffed human (normal or with psionic ability) with an apple in its mouth. In the random map generator, I'd like it if fewer planets were completely random and could instead be set to be.....sound the trumpets....planets. Don't take away all the neutrals, but sometimes there are just simply too many.

2. There can be anywhere from 0-3 neutrals in a grav well. That's a bit lopsided don't you think? I realize most times maps randomize and actually stay pretty fair, but about 25% of the time it feels like my opponent has 3 grav wells with 3 neutrals per well, and meanwhile I've got three magnetic clouds all saying "Screw You Amish Guy".

No Allegiance on Neutrals

There is no allegiance on neutrals......yeah...that makes sense. Ok, maybe playing all fast in multiplayer screws with this perspective. It seems neutrals either are nonexistent or completely give the game to a player. I'd really like to see them reworked. You could lower their income or up their income but give them an allegiance factor. Either way, I know I don't like what the game has now. I've had a map with Vasari where I had 21 metal per second without taking  single lava planet or buildng a single refinery. It aint right. Just plain wrong.

Magnetic Clouds

Have you guys ever actually fought in a Magnetic Cloud? I know I haven't. Taking a fight here is an act of desperation rather than an act of tactics. I don't think I've ever had the opportunity to fight an Advent in a magnetic cloud. He just jumps out and waits for me elsewhere so he can use his abilities. As of the moment, Magnetic Clouds are nothing more than glorified space wasters that just add more time for your scouts to explore. You shouldn't be happy if you see these within the first 2 jumps of ur homeworld. It aint fun.

 2 mine Ices and Lavas

Ever had that night where you're playing sins and the map just doesn't wanna give you a break? Not only are you boned by the map, but you also get to expand to a lava that has.....TWO mines!

I like the randomness of mines on planets. I do. 2-3 on Terrans and Deserts makes sense. These planets offer more population, so the emphasis here isn't minerals. It's credit income. Especially with the extra logistic slots.

I don't get why Lavas and Ices can have from 2-4. It should be 3-4. The WHOLE POINT of an ice or lava is to get extra income of ONE type of mineral. I can not tell you the number of times games get more frustrating because I have 3 of these 2 mine suckers, and meanwhile my opponent has a lava and an ice with 4 mines a piece. It's like being a he man taking a pitchfork to the back of the head but the pitchfork doesn't do brain damage. You're just gonna keep going and try to muscle through it, but in the back of your head, something aint right.

Take One

The Uselessness of Light Frigates

I'm probably not giving anyone a revelation with this one, but thanks to long range frigates, light frigs can't get anywhere near support crusiers to do their job. Really, if you think about it, the only time it would ever make sense to make a large contingent of light frigs in your fleet is if your opponent spammed flak. Even then, the damage multiplier LF's get against heavy armor is only +50%, which just isn't enough for the meaty flak and all of it's health. I'd like the multiplier to be increased to something in the ballpark of 200% at least, maybe even higher. Seriously. Right now if you see someone making a ton of cobalts, you just laugh.

The way it should be is you see light frigs coming for your support cruisers and ur reaction is "Oh Crap, get them out of there"

The OP of Repulse

Not going into detail, as it's not news. I'd like light frig abilities to outrange repulse. That'd help....a little. You could fix repulse by either upping the delay between uses (to say....like 30 seconds to a minute), or by upping the antimatter costs. Personally, I'd like the latter so someone can't abuse it insanely, but either'd work.

The OP of Illums

Not going into detail either. It's not news.

  Hull Armor Shields Damage Ship Slots used
Kodiaks 6300 5 3600 108 60
Crusaders 4650 4 4950 114 60
Enforcers 5875 4 3500 100 60
Illum 6200 2 5500 166 60
Assailant 6000 2 3600 130 60
LRM 7000 1 4200 165 60

What I don't grasp here is why the Illum's health is so high. It should be TEC health = highests, Vasari Middle Man, Advent third. This is the theme of the races that sets them apart. For some reason though, the Illum's health is very very high. It should be around 5000 for 10 illums, or 500 health for each Illum. That might help some of the problems with Illums. The DPS is ok. It should be the highest for all the races considering it's Tier 3. It should not have 620 health and 2 armor. It should be lowered to 500 health and 1 armor. That'd help with balance.

Assailant Weakness

On a related subject, why is the assailant the worst for shields overall? Shouldn't that be TEC?

Starbase Spamming

This is a wierd wierd phenomenon I've seen. You typically see this on 5v5 maps where there are 3-5 allies bunched on one side of the map and the feeder has all the time in the world to get a monster eco going. This person, instead of getting a fleet, will put a starbase at EACH and EVERY system, including neutral sites, and support purely with econ and starbases at each planet. Oh, and they'll probably mix in the superweapons.

I figured out this is something that a large contingent of bombers can cure, but it's just wierd to see. You spend all your money on a "fleet" of stuff that either can't move (TEC/Advent), or is stuck in one system (Vasari). Ok, with the TEC, each starbase gets red button, so any one starbase can destroy a fleet, and Advent get meteor and Mass Disorient, so that's nasty too. For the record, I get why it's not a bad idea. You keep a high eco and your empire is well defended with strong buildings. I get it.

I just liked it better back in vanilla where my fleet could just keep rolling on through cause aint no one gonna stop me. Just nostalgia I guess.

The Enforcer/Skirmisher Nerf

Each of these ships gets reintegration. In exhange for this though, the devs nerfed the damage these do. JJ has already shown that the enforcer is the relatively weakest HC. I say the enforcer get's reintegration, so it makes the issue "fuzzy". What I don't get is why the skirmisher does 10 dps and the enforcer does 20. The enforcer should arguably be doing 24 dps, but I think I like the idea of 22 better.

The skirmisher takes up 7 ship slots and does 10 dps. The Cobalt takes up 5 and 10 dps. The disciple takes up 4 and does 8 dps. The pattern is 2 dps per ship slot. So why does the skirmisher only do 10 dps? I know it gets reintegration, so giving it 14 dps would be unfair, but jesus, a 30% nerf in damage to compensate for reintegration is excessive. I'd like to see it upped to 12 dps.

The Advent Culture Cannon

This superweapon is just overall odd. Vasari and TEC superweapons are direct and to the point. 2 Novalith shots take out 1 planet. The Kotsura cannon, although expensive, requires no pre-research to get and gets a discount with slave labor, and with 3-4 you can disamantle enemy fleets, plus, it opens up a phase lane for phase stabilizers. Sounds good to me.

The way I think it could work is if the culture would last a little longer. I think the right amount of time would be so that I could fire at the area, fire somewhere else, and then fire there again, and the culture from the first shot would still be there when the third shot got there. That'd help because then your opponents would ACTUALLY be forced to do something about the culture cannon. As of the moment, it's too easy to just get media hubs and spread a few more than you usually would around your empire to counter it.

Fighter Futility

Flak are very strong against them. So strong to the point that I'd say that this counter is just as strong as using lrf's against lf's. If light frigs could dismantle flak quickly, we might have a solution, but at the moment, it's reeeally hard to make an arguement for fighters when you're going to lose them so quickly to flak. Upping the antimatter regen rate of the carriers might help with this. (just a suggestion)

The Wave Tree

Why are these upgrades at tier 4,5, and 7? Why? They need to be waaaaay lower. Tier 2,4, and 5 respectively.

The Capital Colonizing Bonus for TEC and Vasari

The Vasari bonus seems a little iffy. 20% faster build for some time. 20? Just 20? Advent get 20% discount per level, and the vasari just quicker build times? This might help for rushing, but this needs to be a bit more drastic than that. I'd say go a minimum up to 50%. Up the build rate and how long it lasts with the up of colonize. At the moment, there's absolutely no incentive to bother with level 2 colonize until the egg reaches level 9.

The TEC bonus perplexes me even more. The bonus is 0,1,2 extractors built for free. So no bonus at level 1 for TEC? That seems a bit unfair. Shouldn't it be something like 1,2,3. What I'd like is for it to be 1, 2, 4.

Terran Upgrade is linked to Desert Upgrade for Advent

Tier 1, you must tech desert before you tech terran. Why? The Vasari are ALIENS and can up their terran pop % at level 1.

Culture Killing Rate

I think my beef here is that you up your own % by .10%/s, but only take down your enemy by .07%/s max. I'd like for the two values to be the same.

Quick Start in Online Matches

This might be nostalgia talking, but I don't like quick start. Like, at all. I know, quick start takes probably about 15-20 minutes out the game, but that's what made rushing so annoying now, and has brought Illums to the forefront of being OP.

What I miss is that you could build 3 scouts, have them explore, and you'd actually have about a 10 min warning of if your opponent is rushing. Now....you just know your opponent is gonna be rushing if he's at least slightly experienced. Takes the fun out of the game when you can't go out and get some planets before the big fight.

Just miss the olden days. That's all.

 

 

That's all I got for now.

 

 

 

71,817 views 167 replies
Reply #26 Top

Personally, I think the problem is this:

 

Repulse is OP because it outranges its counters.  As a result, Guardians are OP.  Also, another result is that they outrange the counters to illums.  Without the counters to the most powerful LRF, the most powerful LRF becomes unstoppable.  Illums by themselves are counterable, while throwing in guardians ruins your chances of defeating them.

 

Illums alone=counterable

Illums+Repulse=unstoppable

 

You see the problem here?  Guardians in general are not OP, just repulse...  Without repulse defeating all the counters, this is the order of builds:

 

A:Illum (because this is what I'm talking about)

D: Fighters (deal 200% to LRM's)

A: Flak (deal 105% to fighters)

D: Heavy Cruisers (deal 125% to flak)

A: Destras (only thing that do that good against HC's as bombers would be destroyed by the defender's fighters)

 

Once the attacker starts using Destras, you can be sure that it is now a matter of numbers and capital support than anything else.  Illums are the best LRM.  Period.  There is not a problem with that, I just sense a problem when the illum combo with Repulse.

Reply #27 Top

Repulse does not outrange everything.  All LRF except illums outrange push.  Strike craft is not affected by push at all.  Repulse does outrange subverters though and it does outrange the antimatter destroying LF abilities.  Of course HC does not outrange repulse by a long shot.  Whether you want to admit it or not, even illums and repulse is not unstoppable.  I play exclusively advent and use both a lot and believe me I do lose a good amount.  Unstoppable it is not but many would still say OP.  Vasari have the easiest time stopping a battleball.  TEC have it rough admittedly outside of using a marza(which you could still say is OP in its ability to destroy entire fleets with one MB).  I don't even generally push against TEC unless they have lots of kodiaks(which they generally do) or I am wanting to prevent escape but use the shield aspect of guardian instead because its better use of the AM to tank with it instead since they cant skip shields like vasari.  The solution is returning fighters to power more.  If that is done, you will see more LF built, less LRF, and a more mixed fleet returning.

 

[_]-Greyfox

Reply #28 Top

I know it doesn't outrange everything.  LRM's do outrange repulse, but the the illums can fight the LRM's back.  And yes, Vasari are the best at it as they have phase missiles, but their LRM's don't offer too much help...  I don't see Marza's as a wise counter to repulse... shove the Marza away and just fling it around until you kill it because it can't fight back because all its weapons are on its front.

And restoring fighters would help with this problem, and I suppose we are forced to pick the lesser of two imbalances...

 

Reply #29 Top

I think what people seem to be missing here is that long range frigates never were supposed to be counter to support frigs. Sure, they can do the job, but they were never supposed to be the counter. Light frigs were. If lrf's were supposed to be the counter, they'd have the anti-support ability and do anti-heavy damage, but they don't.

@Cykur: I think my agruement is that LRMS will do better against Illums than Assailants will, not that LRMS will beat Illums. LRMS still lose badly, but JJ showed you don't have to outnumber quite as much in ship slots to win that one if you decide to fight rock with rock. PLUS, LRMS get 4 health upgrades and 2 armor upgrades by tier 2. That's a pretty big help. Assailants just get 4 health upgrades. And the stats I showed say that the LRMS probably have the better shot at lasting longer. Not winning, just lasting longer.

Reply #30 Top

What about this scenario-Advent uses repulse and kanrack shoots at guardian.For the ilum to get in range of the kanrack the have to move forward in which case you use subverter to disable ilum.Kanrack pounds guard into dust then works on ilums and cap.I dunno what subverter range is but I know ilum have to move forward to get in range to shoot so they would be ahead of guard.

Reply #31 Top

Quoting MindsEye, reply 5
What about this scenario-Advent uses repulse and kanrack shoots at guardian.For the ilum to get in range of the kanrack the have to move forward in which case you use subverter to disable ilum.Kanrack pounds guard into dust then works on ilums and cap.I dunno what subverter range is but I know ilum have to move forward to get in range to shoot so they would be ahead of guard.

2 issues:

1) Subverters are a level 5 tech and need the level 6 tech upgrade to disable ships - you are facing an ungodly amount of illums by then

2) Subs go pop to fighters so easily - and the advent player will have some fighters in his fleet...

Reply #32 Top

Thump thump thump. You hear that sound? It's the sound of beating a dead horse. I didn't mean to start another Illum arguement thread.

Reply #33 Top

JohnJames makes an interesting point though.  Repulse aside illums are still way better than the other LRMs.  Just today I was in a game as Advent versus a TEC player.   His fleet was essentially a Mazda + Javelis spam and a small number of hoshis, might've been a carrier/flak/lf or two in the mix.  Mine was Progen + illums and maybe 2 guardians.  My scouting was superior so I was able to control the timing of the engagement but my fleet was still somewhat outnumbered by supply.  He also had the mazda at level 6 with the dreaded missile barrage.   And yet, he was utterly annihilated (while fighting in his own grav well).    All I had to do was send the illums flying right past his Javelis swarm waiting for him to press his button.  In Sins, red means go so when all my illums lit up red, I knew MB was in effect so I just flew them right back to my Progenitor (which was laying waste to his planet), and they were safely out of range.  Then all I had to do was press the shield restore button and watch the fireworks as his entire fleet was completely decimated.  Now I'm not sure how much tech upgrades mattered in this fight but from a fleet supply standpoint my opponent was ahead, his capship was higher level too (at least at the start of the fight), and yet he was completely crushed.

Reply #34 Top

His fleet was essentially a Mazda + Javelis spam and a small number of hoshis

Ah - there's your problem. A Mazda is not a good fleet leader (at least it wasn't a KIA... :D)...

Reply #35 Top

Yeah.. Marza is good at supporting your fleet, but you need a Kol or Akkan as they do a better job of support.

Reply #36 Top

Yeah.. Marza is good at supporting your fleet, but you need a Kol or Akkan as they do a better job of support.

No no no - nothing wrong with a MARZA!!!! I said a MAZDA is no good. Not big enough or fast enough and lacks guns....

Being serious these days, I would have a Lvl 6 marza followed by a Kol as the Kol can have flak burst without being lvl 6, but a marza comes into its own with MB

Reply #37 Top

Marzas are good at direct offense as all their guns face forward...  I'm saying that other ships do a better job of support... And you do realize that completely contradicted yourself...

Reply #38 Top

No - read my posts again. One was maZDa, the other was maRZa - hence I was joking based on what Valkya said.

Go back and CAREFULLY read my posts, looking especially closely at the spelling of marza...

Reply #39 Top

Hack I was refering to the repulse problem and I think repulse is level 6 tech too so they are even.

Reply #40 Top

Repulse is a level 5 tech on a level 3 ship

Subversion is a level 6 tech on a level 5 ship...

So it is harder to get it and you are less likely to have prebuilt ones in your fleet - advent WILL have guardians to form the battleball...

Reply #41 Top

Quoting Hack78, reply 13
No - read my posts again. One was maZDa, the other was maRZa - hence I was joking based on what Valkya said.

Go back and CAREFULLY read my posts, looking especially closely at the spelling of marza...

 

I just figured that was a serial typo...

Reply #42 Top

and KIA was a mistype for Kol???

Reply #43 Top

"Mazda" is a brand of car, and "Kia" is another brand of car.  He's making a joke based on the other guys typo <_<

Reply #44 Top

I know what said things are...  I just figured he couldn't type...

Reply #45 Top

Your right but still wouldnt it work?We are talking about a late game battle ball when its a real problem and you should be able to get subverters out if you wanted to.Ya Im sure you would take losses and all but the counter shouldnt be invincible one for either side.

Reply #46 Top

Hey Amish, I'd love to play a non quickstart game with you, I'm sure you could find a group of people willing to play as well, especially if yours is the only game up.

I know rubeeisdabomb likes playing with pirates, which most people do without, but still manages to get games going with them.

Also,

Any chance I can get you to vote onsome fixes for the Poll?

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/356646

I could probably put you down for some things based on what's here, but I'd like to know what things you may be against as well.

Reply #47 Top

I was in a game earlier today, 6-way free for all, as Advent, and I found myself noticing a TEC player, RaptorJesus, I think, coming at me. What surprised me, however - He was using Kodiak's and Hoshis. Not a LRM in sight. Not a SINGLE LRM.

I was honestly shocked. I actually had around 7 Scouts, 12 LFs, 20 Illums, 2 Carriers(Which had fighters, but on seeing that they were quickly swapped to Bombers. I was going for more of a general well-rounded fleet, btw. I had time.). So while he's approaching I bring out 5 Crusaders and he attacks me as they finish constructing.. His numbers weren't inspiring at that point(10 Heavies, I think it was) but I don't think he was expecting to run into a wall. So he retreats after losing some Heavies to Bombers(no losses for me), and I figure, "He's probably going Fighters. I'll nab some Flak before he comes back and a Radiance in case he gets MB on his Marza once it's level 6."

Out come the Flak&Radiance. Starbase&Defenses go up.

I forgot about the other planet he could get to. Oops.

So I end up running(1 jump) to an undefended planet to fight him over, shock and horror, he went Flak not Fighters.

..Now, I lost that fight. Put up a good battle, but I lost both caps, my Crusaders and most of my lums. All LFs survived, most Flak did and both carriers did.

He lost all of his Hoshis, all of his Flak and about half of his Heavies(I believe.)

You can attribute that to Illums if you want(which I just had doing circles around the fleet with sidebeams), but I'd like to attribute it to LFs doing their job damn well without interference from LRMs, those Hoshis&Flak DROPPED, it was actually a pleasent surprise to see them leaving a battle alive, especially one I lost.


Sadly, this doesn't happen all the time, as LRFs are still the most commonly spammed ship online, thus making the LFs useless in fleet engagements.

It's sad, really. Poor things, toiling in obscurity and unusefulness. Just like Siege Frigates.

Reply #48 Top

True...  When online, people spam LRF's.  The AI spams LF's.  

Reply #49 Top

/signed @ Raging

Reply #50 Top

why the hell is it that people always present the "subverters die easy to fighters" argument and no one ever brings up the "guardians die easy to strike craft" argument?