[sarcasm]Maybe communism / monarchy isn't the problem at all. Maybe the fault lies with all of us, with our culture and apathy.[/sarcasm]

Yea... see, human nature, kinda a fixed thing. Blaming everyone because faulty and UNFAIR economic principles like communism bring economic ruin is downright stupid.

You are very quick to leap, mumble.  It was a play on words, hardly a 'bald-faced assertion.'  Get a sense of humor.

The instant his name is mentioned it's Bush bashing. In reality I gave him the benefit of the doubt for pretty much his entire first term. I certainly didn't vote for him but he was the duly elected president even though it did require the intervention of his father's supreme court to ensure it. But we've had a number of presidents that I didn't vote for that I still considered to be 'my' president. Heck, I even considered Nixon to be 'my' president. It wasn't until I became convinced that Bush had 'bald faced lied' to the American people to get us involved in an unnecessary war that I no longer considered him to be 'my' president.

The right holds Clinton in pretty much the same light as the rest of the country holds Bush. Clinton also lied to the American people however in his case it was over a simple matter of getting a hummer in the oval office, in Bush's case it was a matter of American soldiers losing their lives because of his lie.

You say I need to get a sense of humor, I say you need to get a life.

Mumble, your condescending BS knows no bounds.  And you still need to go buy a sense of humor somewhere.

[quote]Actually the "dot com" recession did not start until March 2001 which was clearly within Bush's first term which gives Bush the distinction of having two recessions during his tenure as president and unlike you I at least offer some evidence to back up my claims. http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_08/b3871044.htm[/quote]

I am far from being a supporter of Bush's policies or successes of his administration, but the "Dot com" recession was being prepared during Clinton's mandate.

However, Clinton had left to Bush a thriving and strong budget to deal with the economical trouble ahead, and Bush managed to salvage everything. However, everything is a wreak now.

Charles you need to understand children more if this is how you think!  Try going to talk to some children whose lives have been affected by the changes in their parents circumstances.  You live in a different world! I'm not just talking material things here.  This is more important to  you I guess so you see nothing else.

Thx Tex. This is what Charles does best,  I write an article, he finds everyway to make me look bad.  Even when I go on his threads to make comments. He gets some weird pleasure out of that I think!

Charles, for your information: http://neighbors.denverpost.com/viewtopic.php?p=720155

http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=10045094

And do try to get a hold of this past Friday's 20/20. They did a program on how the economy is affecting children in our country.  I just like to "make mountains out of molehills".

US GDP 1990 - 2008

Wikipedia as a credible source.... only if you need something to support your argument.

Come on FS it's practically child abuse if you take away a kids Play Station and kids without the latest sneakers are "dis-advantaged". There are probably billions of people in the world that wish they could be a poor person in the US. That don't make it right, but it's the truth.

BTW I like your optimism, keep it up! You provide the sunshine, I (and a few others) will provide the rain.

Children suffer, but not the way you portray it. As I said, most kids are oblivious to what goes on in the world around them. My kids have no clue of the hard times we have been thru, as far as they are concerned they have lived a pretty decent life, because I have made sure they don't suffer the hardship I have had to endure to keep this family from ending up in the streets. Children may not deserve to go thru hard times but you need to wake up and realise that hardship is what makes a person stronger and keeping your kid in a bubble will deprive him of the education to learn to deal with the dificulties he will face as an adult. Your problem is you are a materialistic person who thinks people can't live without cars, TVs, video games and prime rib. Go live in my town in Puerto Rico for a few months and then come back to me and tell me if you think those kids in my town are suffering or are they simply living a basic life based on waht they have at the moment?

I am a taker? Hmmm, so explain to me what do I take?

Considering I have been a father of 2 for 10 years and have been an uncle of 7 for 18 years and was a child myself once with vivid memories of my childhood, I think I have plenty of understanding of children. I know more about children than you can ever imagine, asking children anything is like asking someone to admit they are wrong, you won't get a straight answer. You know what my 5 year old told my wife he would do if she had another baby and it was a girl? He said he would dump her in the garbage cause he wants a baby brother. Do you think I should take this 5 year old serious? This is not the first time I have heard comments like this from children, a common thing for children to say things that scare the hell out of ya but in reality it's simply ignorance and a misunderstanding of their choice of words.

You don't know what life I have lived. Once upon a time I had it all, as a child I had any toy I wanted and to me that meant having it all even though my parents were not rich, they just made good money and my father was good at managing it. As I grew older all that changed and I had to be happy with the cheap toys I got and you know what? I was. It is now that I am older that I am more ambitious and want more than I have, but I never suffered as a child except when my parents fought and eventually seperated. That situation, however, made me more of a man that I even was as I had to be the strong one and stand up to my dad and his stupid attitude and I had to get my mom away from him.

My child hood made me a better man. I may not be rich and I may not be good at managing my money. But those hard times tought me a lot and I am making sure my kids don't have to suffer the things I did suffer and that material stuff is just that. The only suffering my kids currently go thru is not always getting what they want but they eventually learn to deal with it and move on.

Forever, I have nothing against you. I think you are a kind and caring person with a big heart. We simply disagree on a lot of things and I like expressing my oppinions and defending them. I don't expect any nice comments from Tex since she has had a dislike for me since the first days I came to JU years ago. Her beef with my comment about calling our soldiers "our boys" (a comment made by many before and after me in many places) has had her panties in a bunch ever since. Tex is a nice person to but as oppose to having a difference of opinion with me, her comments are usually fueled by her dislike of me and I don't always pay attention to what she says. Oddly enough the avatars you both have are somewhat similar and had not noticed I replied to her comment and I thouht it was you even though the second line confused me, I though you were talking about yourself in 3rd person.

If I offended you in any way I apologize. I do get a kick out of debating, but not of making you look bad.

Well if you examined the links, the chart from the US Dept. of Commerce, Bureau of Economic Analysis and the Wikipedia (which displays this blurb at the top of the article "This article may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards. Please improve this article if you can. (March 2009)"), then you'll have a good example for future reference.

I'm not putting the site down, it has it's place. But it shouldn't be regarded as the final word. Opinions are as rife as facts there. In fact the college I attended dis-allowed Wikipedia research references due to "reliability" issues. It was a good policy as it helps thwart the "I read it on the internet so it must be true" mentality. People tend to take what sound plausible, logical, or in line with their beliefs and take it as the truth.

Just in case, I didn't notice I was replying to you. I thought I was replying to forever. Had not seen you for a while and did not expect your comment, especially since both your avatars are somewhat similar.

Notice? Yes. Suffer? Maybe a little, but you talk as if every person who lost their jobs and or homes are somehow on the streets right now. Did you know that reports of children being homeless include children wwho live their their aunt/uncles and grandparents? I seriously doubt that all of the millions of people who lost their jobs in the recent year are homeless, out in the streets, with children, no food, no nothing. A few, maybe but lets not get carried away here.

It does hurt, but again, children are resilient. This economy is bad, but you people talk as if 50% plus of the population has gone to ruins and are now living in the streets. I don't know about you but I have not seen a rise in peopel standing in corners asking for money, I have not seen stories showing how homeless shelters have run out of space, I have not seen stories of the millions of children sleeping in cardboard boxes due to the economic issues we have today. If they are then shame on the Media for ignoring it, shame on us for allowing is and shame on the Govt for creating it.

I have witness first hand what it's like to not have food, not to have electricity and running water. Being close to ending up in the streets. I know what it's like to have to wear the same close year after year. I did it as a child, I have done it as an adult. I have seen how other families suffer the same problems, but in the end the children still smilled, they still acted like children, they seemed oblivious to the lifestyles they lived. I did as a child, so do my kids. Why? Because one learned to accept things the way they are and anything better becomes a gift. Children should never have to suffer, but then what is suffering to you? A child who doesn't get a Wii for Christmas? A child he wears the same shoes the following school year? A child who eats ramen everyday for dinner? Suffering is such a subjective word. Children in Africa suffer, the poorest people in this country live like kings compared to them.

We see things very differently Tex, one thing we have in common, we both want the best for all children. The great thing about this country is that we all have a chance to get things done our way. We may disagree on the methods, but the end results we seek are the same.

Past comments pointing to the opposite, but if I am wrong then I apologize for assuming.