Charles,

    I know that its gets opeople fired up when they think of their tax money going to things they dont like, but unless you propose we go back to living in a loose confederacy based on the Articles of Confederation, that is not giong to happen. I happen to be morallty opposed to war, I cannot see how you can be a Christian and support military activity that is not stricly defense (as in someone is invading Florida kind of defense). The God of the New Testament certainly favors peace over violence. So I can say the same thing about war money that you and Lulapilgrim can for abortions, doesn't mean it's going to happen. That is the burden of a federal stystem. I suppose we could all designate funds on our tax return, but that would just make the IRS bigger, which would piss everyone off.

The cruel experimentation on human embyors is a ghoulish "science" where babies aren't looked at as gifts from Heaven made in God's Image and Likeness but are degraded into being viewed and used as "products" in a biotech industry.

There are only so many concerned people in the pro-life movement to go around to protest. And beyond that, do you know how many riduculous anti-free speech and association laws and restrictions there are (so called buffer zones) that prohibit protesting outside abortuaries?

And, it's my understanding that fertility clinics don't throw the embryos out, they sell them for experimentation to those in the horrific world of eugenics.

can you show me what you're talking about in particular to show your justification for no war? 

KFC, I cannot beleive that you ever have to ask me that.....honestly? Let's just say, to superceed anything else, that we follow the greatest commandment as laid out in three of the gospels. I know you are going to ask me for Chap. Verse, so here it is: Matthew 22:24-40, Mark 12:28-34 and Luke 10:25-28. The basic just is this: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and mind, and your neghbor as yourself. How you could get anyhting but a desire for peace and love out of that I have NO idea. Just in case you want a defintion of neighbor, Jesus convienently gives us one in Luke, right after the verse cited. We get the story of the man and the robber. A Samaratian comes by and helps out a man who he had no business helping, since Levites and Samaratans were basically sworn eneimes. So the parable that Jesus uses to back up his greatest commandment specifically talks about sworn enemies helping each other out.

My God is a God of peace and forgivness of sinners who truely want to repent. If your God endorses war, then he is not my God, and is not the God of the New Testament. If your God endorses war, then I humbly ask you change your name on this forum, becasue you are clearly not a follow of Christ.

Lulapilgrim,

  Your quotations form the OT do bear relveance, but the reason we are Christians is becasue of the NT, without Christ we would be Jewish. So I would give the NT a little more creedance in this matter. Especially becasue Christ himself said this words on multiple occasions.  I believe that there are justified wars, but they are few and far between. I would consider them to be mostly defensive in nature, as I would condier World War 2. I know that the Bush Doctrine clearly favors premtive engagement, but I do not consider that a valid perspective. It always boils down to minute and perspective on all this stuff. I was just upset becuase obviouly KFC considers himself an avid Christian and his post was basically an acusation that I was flat out wrong. As far as your response about the soldiers, as is the case now, soldiers are cogs in the poltical machine. They can be called to be soldiers and have thier commanders do immoral things with them. Never blame a soldier for the mistake of a general.

JDKeepsmiling,

Your points are well taken.

This is especially interesting and of your first sentence I think even more true now that Obama is commander in chief. Once political correctness or politics invade the military, it's all over as far as a strong defense of our country and freedoms is concerned.  

BTW, I think it was Tertullian and Origen who objected to Christians serving in the pagan armies because of the danger of apostasy. At any moment, the Christian soldier might receive a command which required an act of idolatry.

My God is the same; that is, a God of peace and forgiveness.   My God in the OT is the same God in the NT.  He doesn't change.  You gave me scriptures that speak to us as individuals.  But corporately there is time for war and we are exhorted to support our government during those times as long as it is a just war.  That's what all the conversation was about during the Iraq invastion.  The question was "is this considered a just war?" 

It's not about God endorsing war but war is necessary because we live in a broken, sinful dark world.  Have you ever read Romans 13:1-8 or 1 Peter 2:13-14?  In this passage he speaks about the governing authorities who have the right, under God, to bear the sword.  War is necessary to stop the forces of evil.   In chap 12 Paul wrote "If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone."  But there are times when it is not possible corporately to do so and war has to be made to subdue evil. 

It is God's intent that human life in the context of community be a life in harmony and peace and order.  Since life in our community becomes chaotic and anarchistic without the presence of regulatory laws enforced by authorities, the presence of these laws are part of God's overall intent for human existence. 

Government authorities are intended to be guardians of the commandments (such as do not kill, do not steal) which make community life possible.  If certain commands are violated it leads to the destruction and fragmentation of community.   Since God's law "you shall love your neighbor as yourself", the loving of one's fellow human beings-not doing any wrong to them-is the fulfilling of the law.  It is the responsibility for both the protection and the enforcing of this law which is given to human authorities by God's design. 

So war is a necessary evil in an evil society.  We have no choice at times to go to war.  Our call, as Christians is to be there for others in love.  Sometimes that calls for war and is meant for protection of our communities.  For instance during WWII we went to war because we had no choice.  In order to protect and defend war was necessary after the bombing of Pearl Harbor.   Evil has a way of spreading unchecked.  If we do nothing evil will prevail and then what? 

Peter said "live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover up for evil."  2 Peter 2:16

It's the assumption that no scientific progress can possibly be made without raiding my wallet that troubles me.  Where is it written that scientific progress is now entirely dependent of federal tax dollars?  If something is so promising, drop the barriers to private research (a whole 'nother discussion) and those risk-takers will step up.

Yes, and the tool employed is destroying lives.

In Germany it's illegal. In the US, the right-wing extremist Bush stopped federal funding for that Germany considers a crime.

Go figure.

And now it turns out that stem cells can be gotten from other sources and don't have to be taken from embryos that die in the process.

To me it looks like George Bush took the middle way between allowing and not allowing it and was condemned for it anyway.