Believe me, I've studied this at length and for years as well.  I can absolutely say with confidence that we can take Jefferson's writings (one of the least religious founders) and make him out to be quite the bible thumper in comparison to today. 

No it did not.  Many of our founding fathers were Christians that is true, but many of them were not, some were simply diests and others were athiests.  In fact some of the Christians among them felt that religion was a private matter meant for the home rather than anything involved in government and law.  The 10 commandments were NOT a basis for our society. That said some of those commandments are simply universal I think everyone can agree that killing people is bad, not because god said so but because you are taking the life of another person ie there is a victim.  And even then there is a little gray area where some murder is considered justified.  I think everyone can agree that stealing is wrong, again not because god said so but because there is a victim.

Did you choose who you love?  Did you walk into a room and say "I'm going to love that person and not this person"?  I know I didn't.  I didn't have any choice in the matter I just fell in love.  Why is it a psychological disorder for somone to be in love with someone of the same sex just because it doesn't fit in with what you consider normal?  If you are in a same race relationship is it a psychological disorder for someone to be in an interracial relationship just because it doesn't fit in with what you consider "normal"?

It seems to be a little arrogant, or at least naive, to assume that your opinion stands as the final word in this matter.  I know and have met children raised by gay/lesbian couples.  They seemed happy.  In fact, what bothered them most was that people treated them like they were somehow "deficient" in their development because their family structure was different.

The overwhelming evidence on childhood development of individuals raised by gay/lesbian couples shows no significant difference.  Conclusion:  specific family qualities are more important than the sexual orientation of the parents.

This idea that families that are different are bad is the same logic that demonizes single parents.  Hopefully we can all agree that is somewhat problematic.

Is it any more right a parent to force their kids to be straight?  Forcing someone to be something that they're not is wrong no matter how you look at it.

Just because you feel that you would act that way doesn't mean that all people would feel and act that way.  I was raised primarily by a single father and I don't resent my wife for having a mother and father.  While I was dating her I was embraced by her family and welcomed in as one of their own.  Why can't you foster a relationship with your girlfriend's mother rather than resent your girlfriend's relationship?  I would argue that what's in the best interest of the children is to have loving parents.  Why disqualify two people just because of their sexual orientation when they would love the child just as much as a straight couple?

Really?  I'm thinking ancient Greece.  Try again.

While I'm sure that would lead to a fascinating discussion, the point is that since we aren't the Founders, we won't really know definitively what they thought.  Moreover, while what they thought is relevant from a historical perspective, as EL-D pointed out, this is no longer the time of the Founders.  There have been amendments to the Constitution since then, and the country as we know it has changed-- we are no longer a colony that just won its indepedence.

Love is not a choice.  Marriage and sex are certainly choices but you do not choose who you love, it just happens.  Why deny someone the ability to express that love thru marriage just because you disagree with their love?

According to your bible it's also a sin to eat shellfish or the meat from certain animals or eating meat at all on Fridays.  Why are those sins now ok but homosexuality isn't?  Should any of those sins be added to our laws because your bible claims that they are bad? 

Of course "truth" changes.  It must change as we aquire more information.  The truth was once that the earth was flat, that changed, the truth was that the earth was the center of the universe, that changed.

Look I am not asking that you accept homosexuality.  All I have ever wanted to understand is why homosexuals should be entitled to the same rights and privledges as heterosexuals.

That is true, but you can't blame a family who never considered the idea of their child being born gay (something many still believe) and only finding out about this once they are older and begin to show signs. Keep in mind that parents don't have 2 plans when a child is born, one if they are gay and one if they are straight. It's one thing to raise a child like one normally wood only to find out they may be gay, it's another to, right off the back, try to instill gay/lesbian ideals to a child who may not be one. There's a big difference between forcing something after the fact and forcing something from day 1, but again, I am not saying this is something gay people do, just an opinion on how would they raise a child with the concept that they like being gay.

Now Charles you should know me by now....geesh!   I'm against basing things merely on experience and emotion. That's why I'm NOT a Democrat for one thing.....   I'm basing my beliefs on what I consider, outside of myself, to be the only truth we have today and that's God's truth laid down in his word to all of mankind.  We can either choose to accept or reject.  Obviously I chose to accept this as truth. 

Charles, where are you getting this from?  You may want to go back and read Genesis 1-2 for good measure.  Now is this truth or your opinion?  It's not God who messed stuff up.  It was man. 

Of course things would have been different but had I come to the knowledge of the truth I would have to reject that lifestyle as in error like many many others out there have done.  My parents got a divorce and had an angry marriage.  That was wrong and I believe they were in error in many ways.  It doesn't mean I have to adopt their ways. 

Your relationship with an emotionaly absent father only proves my point Charles. How do you suppose your life would have been different had you seen a loving father and husband modeled for you?  Every boy needs a dad who cares and loves him and helps him to become the man God intended for him to be. 

can you give me the text you're referring to?  I'm curious about this one. 

Your first thought should be...to whom was it addressed?  Whom was Paul addressing?  Whom was Moses addressing?  Very important. 

Are you familiar with the passage, as one who has read the bible about "casting pearls before swine?"

I don't take it that way.  Although I quite agree that Jesus made an intolorant statement, I believe it to be true so label me intolerant.   People should be free to choose whatever god they want as Joshua said in his book in 24:15.....He told the pagans they could choose which God (of the two he mentioned earlier) but as for him and his house they would SERVE the Lord. 

That's how I believe.  Choose whatever god you wish but I will serve the Lord God, creator of heaven and earth. 

Well if you studied as you are saying then you should be aware of all the scriptures both old and new that says that every word is coming from the mouth of God.  You can start with John 1:1.  You can go to Peter 3:16 and see even Peter put Paul's words as equal to the OT scriptures.  Peter understood they were under the direction of the Holy Spirit's guidance.  Christ also said that the Holy Spirit would bring all things to their remembrance when it came to the things he taught them.  You can go to Galatians 1:17-18 and  see that Paul immediately after his conversion (Acts 9) went to Arabia to be alone with God for three years BEFORE he even met with the Apostles in Jerusalem. 

I'd be interested to know your background.  I can see you are knowledgable about the scriptures but with a slant against it.   It looks like what you're doing is watering down the scriptures so you can go along with the culture.  You've got one foot on either side of the fence. It's very clear that scriptures tell us that the gap will widen between culture and the will of God.  The time is already past when you have to make a decision which side of the gap you will stand. 

Reminds me of Paul writing to Timothy just before he died.  He said this:

"Demas has forsaken me having loved this present world and is departed."

and John who wrote this:

"Love not the world neither the things that are in the world.  If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes and the pride of life is not of the Father but is of the world.  And the world passes away and the lust also, but he that does the will of God abides forever."  1 John 2:15

You can't love both.   

Well then you would know

The passage I'm referring to is Leviticus 14: 33-57.

A good question.  You should consider, then, that precisely the same questions and comments can be raised about the passages concerning homosexuality.  For example, the passage from Romans can be seen as a critique of the orgiastic behaviors involved in certain religious rites present in the region, rather than homosexuality.  Why is it that you can choose to selectively apply this contextuality where you want?

I brought up the Paul/ Jesus distinction more as a bit of trivia than anything else.  But some also believe that certain letters thought to be written by Paul, including some of those used to make the case against homosexuality, were likely written by a student of Paul.

So, having a different interpretation of the scripture than you do is equivalent to being slanted against it?  Forgive me if I choose to disagree on this point.  Are Catholics "slanted against" the scripture because they have different beliefs and interpretations than Lutherans, or vice versa?

This, this is precisely what bothers me.  My whole point was simply this:  there are alternative interpretations of the Bible.  There are Christians, like me, who have no problem with homosexuality, who support gay marriage.  And yet, your response is to say, in essence, we're not really Christians.  You are not the judge and jury regarding my faith.  That is between me and God. 

And since there is no way to really resolve a religous debate in any meaningful sense, I'll say this:  our Constitution is intended to make sure the government doesn't make laws that unduly discriminate against or bias in favor of a particular religous belief.  If the only basis for banning gay marriage is a religious one, that's unconstitutional.  So let's try to focus on the other reasons for and against gay marriage.

I actually feel sorry for you.  Love is most certainly an emotion, one that I feel every single day for my wife.  We have been married for almost 7 years now, admitedly a yough marriage but I feel love for her every single day of my life.  The word love may be a verb but that doesn't mean it isn't an emotion.  I do admit that Love and Lust are different emotions, but they are emotions nonetheless.  I still didn't choose who I love and if you have to actively choose to love someone I truly feel sorry for you.

I know it better than some but I am by no means a biblical scholar.  What I do know is that your bible is not the law of this land.  Whether you like it or not our founding fathers put protections in our constitution so that no religion would be imposed on anyone.  That's just the way it is.

That may be considered truth to you, but it isn't truth to me.  It's fine if you want to base your opinions based on your religion, that is your right, but those opinions cannot be used to make laws.  Laws in our country must be secular in nature.

If my god were to dictate that driving cars on Saturday is a sin does that mean I should lobby congress to disallow any driving on Saturday?  If my god were to dictate that drinking alcohol past 9pm was a sin should I lobby congress to force all bars to close by 9pm?  Of course not and that is why religion cannot be the basis of law, just because your god determined that homosexuality is a sin doesn't mean that it should be illegal for them to get married.

What I most want to know is beyond homosexuality being a sin why are you opposed to allowing homosexuals to get married?  Keep in mind the focus of the question here too, I'm not asking about whether homosexuals should be allowed to adopt children or anything like that I am simply wondering why they shouldn't be allowed to get married.

thanks, I'll look it up. 

it's pretty clear and laid out that Paul is saying stay away from such practices because they are an abomination to God.  It has nothing to do with the region.  He's talking to the Roman Christians and saying they are in Christ and are not to partake in such behaviors.  There's more in Corinthians Chap 6 as well.  Both cities were known for some pretty ungodly behavior including homosexuality among other stuff.  So again, as Christians we are NOT to be following the world.   

You can believe what you want.  It doesn't make it true.  I can say Jesus was a homosexual because he never married.  But that doesn't make it true.  You want what you want.  You wish to believe homosexuality is biblical and ok because you are following the culture not the Word of God.  That's your choice.  There's only one interpretation but many applications.  So, for instance, while God says in his word that we should meet together and have fellowship and communion he doesn't dictate how that is to be done.  Some worship styles are formal and some are casual.  That's not an issue. 

First off, there is ONLY one interpretation of the bible but many applications.  God says what he means. 

There are many that "Say" they are Christians.  Christ made it quite clear that only those who 'DO" the will of his father can be considered his followers, Matt 7:21.

I would say if you're calling yourself a Christian but are not following or believing what is written down by God as his revealed word than you should examine your life.  Paul mentions this.  We should always examine our life to make sure we are truly in the faith.   If one tells me he supports homosexuality and considers himself a Christian and yet disregards the Word of God a red flag goes up for me. 

It is between you and God.  That's true.  I can't judge your heart only your words and actions.