Oh, BTW, in building our dream house we are providing work for a whole lot of people and putting more tax dollars into our community.  We are far from the only ones to benefit.

I read about him on a German news site. However, they just showed a picture of him and said he was a plumber, without mentioning anything about his business and taxes. In the article he was referred to as a typical McCain supporting low-life without much education.

 

Jill, I think a lot of the negativity going on right now is due to resentment and jealousy.  I know *I* feel that.  Not necessarily that others have done well, but at the fact that it seems to be FLAUNTED in the news, just how wealthy the wealthy are, while the middle class (and below) are getting all this doomsday feedback making them fearful that they just won't be able to survive period, much less afford a vacation home or go on a European vacation.

I read an article recently on MSNBC from Newsweek that was just...disgusting...the author was compelling readers to offer sympathy and compassion for the super wealthy (who are now having to wear a $10,000 outfit more than once, just because they are worried about the economy) because they are losing not just money but oh, their identity and self-esteem. How sad.  How sad that their self-worth is tied up in lording their wealth over others and now they're worried about the security of that wealth.  Not that they'll ever have to live like a normal person, but you know, they might have to make a sacrifice or two and only live in super unbelievable luxury rather than super unbelievable incredible luxury.

I have a hard time feeling sympathy for the rich.  It's not about expecting anyone to pay or supporting tax increases so much as it's very annoying to carefully budget and have true financial concerns while listening to someone who will never have to clip coupons or put off dental work complain about how they are going to pay more in taxes all the while having more than they could ever spend.

Even though the wealthy pay an exhorbitant amount in taxes (and I'm not arguing that that's fair or correct...I believe we should be keeping our own money), the "burden" is really not on the rich.  They are fine.  The middle class, whose tax contributions get pish-poshed, actually FEEL the burden of their taxes even if the amount they are paying is less.  It's not just that it affects their lifestyle.  It can actually affect their ability to cover things like health care or retirement savings.

When gas prices go up and grocery prices go up, the rich don't need to fret.  I DO.  So, there is some resentment and jealousy there when I read about poor wealthy people and how worried they are and how much they're suffering.

I don't think it's personal toward you Jill, so much as just a seething resentment in general toward the attitudes of the wealthy in a time of financial uncertainty that threatens to crush the rest of us.

 

For me, this is not a topic I generally spend a lot of time thinking about, but lately it seems like I have been bombarded from all sides with it...online communities I visit, the news, friends, etc. are all talking about it. 

And what I am getting the most is complaints and fears from the wealthy.  I am sure it probably feels like to those with money that they are constantly hearing sob stories from the middle class and poor, so maybe it's more that that's what is standing out to me, but every day it's more of the same.

I think even people who don't take advantage of others, and who have worked heard to earn and build their wealth, and who are actually looking out for their fellow man (or woman) are getting this backlash because of how completely GARISH a lot of these news stories regarding the poor, suffering super wealthy. 

The media is DEFINITELY feeding this class warfare obsession.  And I personally feel like I am being sucked into it because I find myself feeling actually angry when I read these news stories, knowing that even though we are a hard-working, law-abiding, typical American family, our future is somewhat at the mercy of the whims and financial moves of others. 

 

Well said Jill.  It sounds like you and Brad are alot like my husband and I.  We went without for many years trying to save for our future and we built a business together as well. 

 We lived in the basement of our home while he built it himself on weekends and nights.  I lived two years in the basement (no mortgage) with three babies while I saw friends and relatives live in brand new cute decorated homes.  It didn't seem right, (and about killed me) but years later while they are all struggling now with two mortgages on their homes we own two nice homes debt free.  But it was a sacrifice of many years to get to this point.  

 I'd hate to see Obama waltz in and take from us to give to my friends and family whom I saw go to fancy restaurants while I was making chocolate chip cookies out of a toaster oven. 

you know what my husband says about this attitude?  Go make your own oil.  Go start your own oil business.  Or figure a way around using their oil. 

I never put anything in black and white.  Obama is the one saying he wants to decide who has more than they "need" and spread the wealth to those he figures needs it more.

This sounds a lot like "refund adjustment".  Reducing tax breaks = raising taxes.  A tax break just means you're taking less of their money.  You aren't giving them anything.  If you are reducing what you're not taking that means you're increasing what you're taking.

And what would those profits be?  Do you know how dangerous a field oil drilling and production is?

Does it disgust you that 12yr old actors make millions for playing pretend or their adult counterparts not only make millions but then use their celebrity to tell the masses what candidate is going to be best for the middle class?  Could a CEO get away with spending their money to influence people in such a way?...nope.

I don't think it's right that some get their money from a company whether or not the company can afford it.  I am sick to death of people using the term CEO as if it were synonomous with the devil.  I know a lot of CEOs.  While their punch-in/punch-out, leave work at work employees have real time off, they never get away.  They have the wait of the company on their backs 24/7.  They should get pretty well compensated for that kind of committment.

Just as there are a lot of CEOs who are greedy and crooked, there are a lot of people who just leach off from others and then cry poor me.  They don't sacrifice, work hard or take risks but expect to get paid.  Somehow such people feel they are owed a wage for just showing up every day.

How did those CEOs get where they are?  I don't think people think much about that either.  They probably just were in some good old boys club or knew someone at the top or inherited their position, right?  Of course they didn't earn it by taking positions of immense responsibility risking getting canned if their decisions ended up being the wrong thing for their company.  I'm sure none of them took responsibility for others on their way up.

 

 

Sorry, but I am so tired of hearing this crap.  Oil companies pay billions and billions in taxes, so what if they make a profit?  That's the point of business, to make a profit.  They don't owe you anything.

It's not ridiculous at all.  The mortgage crisis is based on people buying houses they couldn't afford.

TW...did you not read what I said?  I said I lived in the basement with three babies making food out of a toaster oven because I had NO stove.  Three kids in one bedroom, us in another...for TWO years.  That was two cribs and a twin bed in one room.  Then on top of that we had our newlywed brother and sister-in-law move in with us for one year.  They slept in the top story (this was a cape) with no insulation at first as the house was just framed.  They had no heat and when it snowed the snow would come in the vent and land on them while they slept.  Not much better than sleeping outside. 

I've written about those times we made so little money I had maybe $30-40 for a week's worth of groceries.  One year I had absolutely NO money for Christmas and the local church gave us $500.  Don't tell me I didn't go thru hard times...and no I never cried about it then nor would I now.  I appreciate each and everything we've got.  I know how rich we are in this country.  I dare not complain. 

We've been there TW.   We paid our price.  Now it's your turn.  We know what it's like.  From what you've written, believe me, you have it alot better than I did. 

 

 

It is ridiculous.  Well, actually, its conservative propaganda to increase the war on the middle and working classes.  Here are the facts:

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story/722379.html

Jill, you do in fact make this some sort of black and white issue, polarizing between classes and parties.  You seem to think that the rich are a priveledged group as they have "made it" through their own hard work.  To say nothing, which you don't, of all those that work to make companies even richer. You kvetch about those friends and family you must help, but others, other citizens, you are suspect of them. Somehow, as KFC has also tried to suggest, they are responsible for their own financial mess as they should have been "better prepared" I think were her words.

Instead of pulling together, you worry about your own corner of your utopia, believing somehow that you exist in a vacuum and are not deeply interconnected with the well-being of the rest of the world.  Only a fool believes this today. 

 

Be well.

 

 

You obviously didn't read through my response.  As far as "kvetching" about others, doesn't charity start at home?  Wouldn't our society be better off if everyone made sure they were taking care of their own?  Also, plenty of "others" in society, including many family members have given me plenty of reason to suspect them.

You know nothing about how much I do for others anyway.  I have brought dinner to complete strangers because I heard they were ill or fell on bad times.  I've cared for others kids when they could find child care.  We donate to a list of charities too long to bother with here.  Those charities aren't just ones that have touched us personally.  We believe in helping our fellow man.  So don't preach to me about only caring about my own little corner of the world.

Sodaiho, I mentioned a candidate's policy but made no mention to party and in contrast, you came right out of the gate blaming the Republicans so please don't preach to me about polarizing.

If you are suggesting I'm a fool, you need not visit my blog again.  Perhaps I misinterpreted your comment and will give you the benefit of the doubt.  Please clarify for me.

 

And I can provide plenty of "facts" that dispute that, but regardless, what is this nonsense about conservatives waging war on the middle class.  That is just ridiculous.

Liberals have been telling poor people for decades that they will get them out of poverty....hasn't happened yet.  People make their own wealth, they don't need the government to "spread the wealth" to them.

No, but it seemed like you wanted Jill and I to apologize for doing well now when we both may have had it more difficult than you now.   You accused us of being crass and divisive remember? 

When I was 29 I had an 8, 7 and 5 year old and a 12 year old stepson we had on weekends (we had child support as well).  I was babysitting (in that still unfinished house) for three other kids five days a week and on school vacations to make extra money.  We moved into that unfinished house in the spring of 1986  when I was 26.  So by 29 I had lived there 3 years and just moved out of that basement onto the first floor.  It took the better part of 10 years to completely finish the house.  Just about the time we finished it we sold it.  It listed in six days and we were on our way. 

No, I didn't.  Please read that again.  The NEWS ARTICLES I'VE READ REGARDING THE WOES OF THE SUPER RICH ARE CRASS AND DIVISIVE. 

I would also suggest that you and your husband made choices that put you in the position you were in when you were living in poverty at age 29.  You two were obviously responsible and make good choices later that lifted your family out of poverty, but I don't think I understand what point you're trying to make in comparing and contrasting me at age 29 and you at age 29 (and I do have work I do to contribute financially, btw)...??

 

ETA:  Upon re-reading the crass and divisive comment, I see that I was not very clear in my wording.  By "THAT" I meant the news articles I've been complaining about this entire thread, LOL.