Because when it comes to competitive gaming, you must have the choice to pick the character you feel the better with (I know here it seems I'm only a competitive whore with few arguments but the truth is I'm lacking words to explain my point of vue, so sorry for not being as clear as I should be). Again I've never spoken about skill, level, being better or not. Insanetitan has sumed it up way better than me, read again his post.

Random/draft picks is a way to go and I never said this has no place in this game, I said you can't make ranked games without multiple picked heroes. At least, there can be several ranked games modes, one random/draft picks and one multiple picked heroes, with separate ladders off course.

There have been 10 confirmed heros so far, the max size we know of is currently 5v5... wheres your logic on this?

Also read my response to it a couple of posts down! I rebute and provide examples to his points.

ah, there's a gem.  I wholeheartedly support picking your demigod while in the lobby regardless if there can be same picks or not.  I don't know how many DOTA matches I've played that have gone sour due to players not getting the hero they wanted (either in random or someone picked their favorite or whatever).  Plus, maybe you want to change your pick depending on what others are selecting (this may go on for a while, but eventually everyone should have what they want). 

Yeah.. I would expect there to be picking within the lobby not after the game starts.

Odits point is a good one.

Where?

How do you account for said option having no affect on top players while hurting those below them?  "Forcing" people to get better isn't a benefit.  For the sake of arguement, lets assume that you do need to play as all demigods to be truly good.  So what?  People should improve at their pace, not some pace that some "good" players chooses.  Forcing someone to learn new characters before they're ready just gets them frustrated and ends up reducing the ranked pool.  Never a good thing.

Bah, got to go.  I'll just paste my remaining arugments from my original post as they haven't been answered to my satisfaction:

The point in a ranked game is to pit your best against the enemies best. You can't do that if you can't pick the demigod you're best at.

Finally, if this was even put up for vote, it would have to voted on by ALL those who play ranked, not just the top players.

If people aren't trying to get better it isn't competitive! When two people are competing they're trying to be better than the other!

You can't talk about something competitive, and then when we're talking about joe schmoe point out that it's unfair to him that it's competitive!

I'll again post my response to your second your point:

Actually the people who play ranked wouldn't get the vote, the devs would! but yes they may base it on a community poll or survey, but since there is no ranked community at the moment it dosn't matter either way.

No one's saying you shouldn't be competetive.  The problem is somone else is dictating how and how fast I'm supposed to learn.

You have to learn faster than the other guy that's the point of being competitive, by having unique heroes there's a little push to learn faster, competitive, by definition is "to strive to outdo another" if your not doing that your very competitive.

If you don't want a competitive game go play custom, learn how to play with no pressure, then go back and be competitive.

  .....Right.  You're definition of competition>all.  What's next?  Making mandatory for players to play 3 games a day to maintain their ranking?  You want to be competitive right?  Then you need to practice regularly!!    

Ok, seriously though, at a certain skill level, learning how to play every demigod will probably be very usefull, but NOT for all skill levels.  I can see how you're just trying to improve the skill level of ranked, but by forcing it down player's throats, you're just gonna make them throw it up and think twice about trying it again.

Oh, and to paraphrase the wise, wise isik: "Ranked is for competing.  Restrictions in rank (beyond cheats) are bad."

We are talking about competitive play here. In regular matches they can have as many messed up gametypes as they want. It doesn't need to be fair if you are just playing for fun. In competitive play there has to be an even playing field.

So my point is that if you can have 5 guys who make a rape-face team, how can anyone compete against that. This will be a team based game. So you have to work together, and if you have the disadvantage of playing a team of 5 friends (probably on vent), AND the disadvantage of their home picks.. How is that at all fair for a group of no ones.

And your comment about making players play 3 games a day to maintain their rank is poppycock. People will need to play 3 games a day to maintain their rank soley because other players will out do them. Keeping your rank is based on your skill and experience. If someone has a better record then they will be placed higher.

Plus I am going to guess that the ranking system wil give you X points per win and subtract Y points per loss, where X>Y. So for the most part it is based on the number of wins you have, but as you get up in the rankings the number of losses will effect your rank.

NOTE: Whoever commented on my post about how there is not enough heroes to do only single man for every match is crazy. 10 heroes for 5v5 means a lot of repetitive gameplay. I understand that if every time people picked a different set up it would have a lot of possibilities... A lot of possibilities. Essentially 10!, but also consider this. You may not play the EXACT same setup every game, but if 7 out of the 10 heroes are the same as last game, it's going to feel way to similiar. When they get 20 heroes then we are talking about rarely doing a multipick.

But regardless, i stand by the fact that multipicking is bad news and all picks are bad news. And as for the people who leave because they didn't get their hero, well Halo had a nice solution... Rank drop. Make leaving a game after hero picks count as a loss. Honestly in a competitive game, I don't care that you have to go pick your brother up from soccer practice. You should not have joined a rank game if you didn't know you had enough time. That might not be as much of an issue in this game, I don't think that each match will take an hour like DotA, but no one knows that yet do they...

Thank you,
    cos(Ө)

Sorry, that first paragraph was sarcasm.  My bad!

How can you have an even playing field when the  host gets X choices of demigods, the second player gets X-1 and the nth player get X-n?  You can't call that an even playing field. 

 I return to my main point: ranked play is to play your best with your best demigod, not your second best because someone happened to like the same design/have the same play style as you. 

Ranked isn't for each game feel different, it's to go out and win.  At the same time, nobody should be able to tell me which demigods I can and can't use in ranked.  It's like going into a ranked game and asking for an arbitrary rule (no rush, no air, etc).  Those kinds of restrictions aren't for ranked play.

It's fair because that means everyone may not be using their best hero. I understand where you are coming from completely. With so few heroes you may only like 2. And if those characters get taken you are kind of out of luck. But there won't be only 10 heroes for long. By the time the game comes out there will be a lot more (my guess).

Also, you would be the cause of problem in a competitive game. It doesn't matter if a unit is your best character. You have to do what is best for your team. In DotA, just because you LOVE to be Razor (low hp, high damage per second, range) doesn't mean it's good to be him. if the rest of your team picked 2 gank, 2 dps, you better as hell pick a tank. I don't care how good you are at one character, it's about intellegent when you pick your hero. It is always what is best for the team. It is always nice to get your favorite hero, but it may not be practical.

Honestly, if you can't handle doing what is necessary to win, then don't play rank.

Why should my rank go down since I lost because I'm not that good with Sedna as I am with the Unclean Beast?

When people play ranked CS games they don't get to not pick the AK47 because someone else has it, and so are all the other guns, and they're forced to use the uzi and do much worse.

On the point of the server having x choices the next guy having x-1, if it's anything like sup com or most other rts's, there is no 'server' in ranked play, the match making system puts you togeather, the first choice is randomly picked between the two sides. (And as a downside to being first to pick the other player would know who he's up against) the same would work for team games. It could even be a coinflip, with the winner choosing first or second pick.

That system would allive the unfairness of loosing ranking to some one because they got first pick.

innociv: Again with the fps / demigod analongy! It dosn't work! (At least tf 2 had classes!!!) that argument is rediculus and you know it. But you just can't seem to understand or even refute any one my reasons on it! So until you do stop using fps / demigod analogies.

Balance of matches doesn't necessarily justify random pick. In dota if some tournament go this way (is it english ?), the eswc rule was "all pick" (no random all the heroes are available, even if someone already picked it).

In the same way, if it's necessary to know all demigods to play better (at a certain point for the least), this is not a reason not to have multiple pick option. You perfectly can pick the hero you want when you want and learn this way and still be playing with your favorite one in ranked mode (or the one you're used to play in your team).

By the way CosineofTheta, stop giving lessons, this is boring.

Balance of matches doesn't necessarily justify random pick. In dota if some tournament go this way (is it english ?), the eswc rule was "all pick" (no random all the heroes are available, even if someone already picked it).

In the same way, if it's necessary to know all demigods to play better (at a certain point for the least), this is not a reason not to have multiple pick option. You perfectly can pick the hero you want when you want and learn this way and still be playing with your favorite one in ranked mode (or the one you're used to play in your team).

By the way CosineofTheta, stop giving lessons, this is boring.

Sorry for the double post, dunno what happened.

If you knew what you were talking about maybe I wouldn't have to

And have you been to a DotA tournament? or played TDA. Rarely is AP used.

When did this turn into a "take one for the team" speech?  Why are we introducing new elements into this discussion.  My point is that I should be able to choose my demigod on my terms.  Ok, fine, our team needs a tank.  Can I at least choose WHICH tank I want to be?  Oops, nope I can't someone else got to him first...

I quote my self as no one has answeared that post. (Thats essentially draft up there by the way). (One thing to change if you dislike chance it could have a rock-paper-scissor system instead of a coin flip.)

Lurhker you misunderstand my point, when did I say random? (I said it eariler as an option yes but the other option I was saying at the sametime was the above.)

I belive they use a form of draft most of the time?

P.S. Insanetitan: If there are enough heroes that should be a non-issue. But we'll see.

It's not about taking one for the team. It is about sucking it up and not having to play your favorite character every time. And if one tank is taken, take another. In competitive play, it isn't about what is fun. It is about winning. Most competitive players find the fun in competing, so you do what needs to be done to win. If that means taking a character you don't like then so be it. As I mentioned before, you have to know how to play every character to be good anyways so it should never be an issue that "you can't play that hero". And if you SERIOUSLY can't play a hero then just pick another and let your team know that it would have been a problem if you picked that hero and you'll work on it etc.

There is no harm in playing non competitively. There is nothing to look down on either. Wanting to play for fun important. Again to reference DotA, there is a -wtf mode. It is super fun, you pick a hero and all cooldowns go away and all spell costs are 0. There is no practicality in being competitive in it. Certain characters have a natural win button which makes them impossible to beat in that mode. Likewise, it may be fun for anyone to pick any hero, but by there being 3 of one hero in a game, it could be VERY imbalanced.

cos(Θ)

Yes single or random draft. It adds that random factor that evens the playing field.

On that point, I've played all pick games. It sucks if you play a team that knows what they are doing.