I like the way Each Player have a Different Heroes , cause :
You can see A large Variety of PLayers , Using the same hero with different Aspect/Point of view
1 of them will go for a Mana regen Heroen , in order to spam spells , and the other one will go for Dmg
stuff + Speed attack for example
And to force the variety on the battlefield , you will create greatest occasions for Players to meet each others

I like to think too that if Someone took the Hero you wanted so Much , you will make the effort to take another one , and you will try to adapt yourself to the situation.
you won t be stuck to your Favorite Hero , since 3 months and for the rest of your life , cause you Pawn Everyone with him and with no others

And finally I like this Idea about no clone hero cause of the Story/RP
How can you tell , in the backgroud story , that an army of 2 Regulus + 3 Torchbearer will counter a wave of 5 regulus ?

it s a Fight between Unique entities , each one want to be THE main god.
In the antiquity , we had a lot of gods, in a lot of countries , but we never had main Gods with ubiquity like to be in 10 places in the same time and to fight Himself with his own "Clones"


PS : Sorry for my poor english , i really have to improve myself
I just wish you can understand what i try to say

Jotaro

I think that in ranked games you must have multiple picking demigods available. Ranked games are about comptetitive gameplay and you can't think competitive if you can't pick a character because one of the other player have taken it before you.

Two responses to that reason:

First theres more to being top player by dominating with your one 'perfect guy', the top player needs to be able to beat an opponent with any combo (all 16 thousand of them with 12 unique heroes in 5v5), he needs to be able to take the opponents play style and turn it against them regardless of which hero he got. And what if that one hero he chooses evrey game (in your reasoning) is imbalanced (like sera anyone?) in a game where skill (should) matter(s) more than then choosing the imbalanced heroes.

Second thats the point of drafting and random, to make the game fair, so that everyone gets to play the evrey hero equally in the case of random, or the hero that fits the other heroes chosen in the case of draft. Skill and strategy is needed in a draft to make a good team combo before the game even starts, and the point again to skill, the fact that a team has a 'god' combo they use in competitive, doesn't mean that they're any good at any team besides that, so having the skill to pick any team on the fly shows more superiority than having a pre-made team each game, Having unique heroes would encourage that.

And besides the top player(s) prolly don't want to be continually fighting themselves (as people will try to emulate their style(s)) evrey match.

Also note I'm responding to the above post not providing reasons why we need unique heroes, but rather showing why the above posts logic makes no sense.

Brb.

I'm going to valve forums to tell them they need to make it so you can only have 1 person of each class in clan matches.

TF2 has no bearing on this discussion, A) it's a fps, this is an rpg/rts mix, in TF2 you can have more players than there are classes C) classes fill a specific role, demigods do not, many demigods can self heal, many can do aoe push back, many can have auras, many units can have nukes. Only the Engy can have units, only the medic can heal in the field, only the soldier has a rocket, only the demo man has sticky bombs, only the spy can disguise/turn invisible. D) TF2 has 9 classes and only ever 9 classes, demigods going to have a lot of demigods, and add more over time.

(And the original point again:)
This opens it up for abuse (unbalanced demigods) in ranked matches, by only having a 50/50 chance of getting the imba dude (and a 50/50 chance to winning) as opposed to actually being able to play the game and winning weather the other guy is imba or not by exploiting the weaknesses (i.e. skill) is in my opinion a better competitive environment. (granted in a non-unique system they could both get the imba guy, but then he'd be the only guy ever used, as opposed to learning to use others till everyone can beat the imba dude unless they (the imba dude) knows how to play well)

They're apples and oranges, the only thing they really share is the fact they're both team games with cool graphics. So please no more TF2 analogy's.

What is the difference between Demigod class and TF2 class?..

I just described that... learn to read. But I'll quote it for you and even reiterate it!



A reason you can have multiples of classes in TF2 is the fact that with a default max of 12 players team... you need to have multiples.

C)Classes fill a specific role, heavies are tanks, demos are area denial, engines are area support. Demigods do not, many can be tanks, many can hold a point, many can defend a point, many have support auras. Now you may say well a soldier can tank, yes he can but would you rather have a 200 health soldier tank or a 300 health heavy? TF2 classes have clearly defined roles.

D) TF2 classes are there to stay there are no more options only 9 only ever 9, demigods there will be more and more and to quote from above about why adding demigods can cause problems if one of them is imba: (as tf2 classes have been well balanced, and will stay that way)



Did I really have to say all this again? No. Did I? Yes because people can't read. Buy a book! Learn to read! Prosper!

What makes you think Demigods won't fill different roles is my points.

I never said they wouldn't fill diffrent roles... in fact what you say I think IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE of what I said. Try READING. Also thats only one point. Read specifically point C): (I'll quote both, from my first post and my second post on this topic)




I use two diffrent examples but the ideas are the same demigods have multiple abilities and roles, their diffrent abilities let them be support, defense, and offensive. To barrow from another set of posts I made, queen of thorns has AoE push back and slow auras as well as mean tree people when shes deployed. Defensively she can hold a point rather effectively, offensively she can with till her team mates push a lane, and then set up shop in the enemies base. Support... well I don't know all her abilities, but I'm sure her slow auras could come in hand for saving a team mate.

And again your 'points', "What makes you think Demigods won't fill different roles", is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what I am saying, until you can read and understand my actual points and position don't bother trying to reply.

Yeah I know you said the exact opposite before. That's what confuses me.

When did I say the exact opposite? Quote me with a link (unless it's in this thread) and the only two points I've made on this matter in this thread:



Note the highlighted text?

Again quote me with a link... and I'll happily say I was mistaken.

Till then stop trolling.

Edit: Also if you mean my posts in the assassin > general thread, I said play style not role. Like in my previous post, Queen of Thorns play style is probably favorable of a defensive role, but her abilities could be used just as effectively used as a support or attacking role, it will require diffrent thinking I'm sure, but her play style should (hopefully) support it.

wait.. wtf. You are saying Demigods don't fill a certain role then.

So what I said originally didn't need retort.

Yes it did because you said:



or was it:


or

or


That didn't need a retort? as none of those mention that demigods don't fill certain roles. except the third in which you asked what makes me think that, meaning either you were unsure or of the opposite opinion.

Stop acting all surprised that we caught on to your trolling.

What makes you think Demigods won't fill different roles is my point.

Your asking me the exact opposite of what I've stated as my position. And the same thing you've allready asked twice.

Background make anything , Innociv
Give me the TF2 background Plz ? Nothing
no background , no story , no world , nothing
you re in an Arena where everyone one is like each others
As in Battlefield , as in Quake/Unreal , just 1 more player in the Mass
Fresh Meat for Hungry Bullets

Now , we have here a World. In this world , Entities Fight Each others in order to Rule everything
Each one of them Is Unique , with unique skills , and a unique story

Ex : The "desesperate bride" became a Deitity after waiting for her husband 300y near a River and finished in the river, as a spirit , she have spell focused on Hex( Share Sadness ) and on Water Element (Water Decoy)
She want now to Become The main god in order to see her husband again ( A classical one )

Aren't you just making assumptions about some ideal "top player". Yes, as a top player, you will have to understand how all the ins and outs of all the demigods. At the same time, it's entirely possible that only one demigod fits your play style (unless all demigods play the same). OTOH, if what you say is correct, then that makes it a moot point -- having unique demigods doesn't change a thing and all top players should just pick whatever demigod suits their mood. "Lesser" players that are only good at one demigod WOULD be affected by this. An option that doesn't affect the top 10% of a grouping and hurts the other 90% is a bad option.

Also, balance shouldn't even play a part in this arguement. The whole point is moot if there's an imbalanced demigod since you can't even have a fair game. Just like using seraphim, it's a cheap win and has no bearing on skill.

The point in a ranked game is to pit your best against the enemies best. You can't do that if you can't pick the demigod you're best at.

Finally, if this was even put up for vote, it would have to voted on by ALL those who play ranked, not just the top players.

Well in Starcraft and warcraft there is a background, a strong background, does it prevent players from playing the same race ? No. Hell, in a lot of rts there is a backround and in all of them you can play the same race as your opponent ( not in company of heroes it's true but this is one of the things that prevented it to really go competitive -the other was the balance problems).

To m0oEyThEc0w : I wrote a long answer to your post but lost it as I was not logged in when I tried to post it. In short I said your answer made no sense since nowhere I spoke about top player, skills or whatever. I spoke about competitive gaming which can concern everyone of us as soon as we play ranked games. In competitive gaming you can't force someone to pick a character he doesn't want, end of the story.

Moreover, I don't want to be forced to play a hero I don't like because all the others are taken. In the same way, if there's only one hero I like I want to be able to take it whatever the other players do.

In fact, I'm convinced, multiple picking hero will be available, so you can say what you want, this is useless.

p.s. : Oh and by the way, don't tell to people to learn to read if you can't correctly understand a post yourself.

I can't edit my post so I write a new one just to say :

-I wrote : "so you can say what you want, this is useless", this is nonsense, every point of vue is usefull, scuse me for being idiotic on that point.

-I see a lot of grammatical errors but I can't correct it, sorry. English is not my mother language and if understand it is pretty well, speaking it is way harder.

Lurkher, you re right when you say "In fact, I'm convinced, multiple picking hero will be available, so you can say what you want, this is useless."

 

I think too , multiple picking hero will be available ,

and to erase the OPTION "multiple picking hero" will be the Best Stupidity

But i think the multiple picking hero is just a Fun option for Non-Match Games ,

A funny Game , like the -WTF in dota Games , Insta Gibs in Unreal , BigHeads in Quake 3 , etc

But we have to disable it by default

 

Seems like my Topic wasn t Correct

The Main Idea is : By default , in classical Games , and in Match Games , Can 2 or more People take the same Heroes

argh,  I had a nice long post and like lurker, lost it when the forums reset.

I'll try it again:

I played a match in Dota once where every player was given the same hero.  As it turned out, we all got Magina.  Magina excels at killing casters.  His skills include mana burn (every hit takes mana away from the target, each point of mana taken does bonus damage), blink (short teleport with a 5 second cooldown when maxed), spell shield (up to 40% spell damage reduction when maxed), and his ult is a long range nuke that does damage equal to the amount of mana depleted.

So basically Magina will initiate a fight with a caster (int hero) either by walking up to him, ambushing using fog of war, or blink in.  As he attacks he's doing regular damage plus mana burn, and in the process, draining the casters mana.  Perhaps the caster will hit him with a nuke or two, which he'll shrug off due to high spell resistance.  Then they may try to run.  Using a 5 sec cd blink, and having depleted his opponents mana, his ult will finish them off.  He's effective against other types of heroes, but is best against casters (which is why his title is anti-mage).

When all of us were Magina, there were no casters to attack.  It became a game of chicken where one magina would attack another and blink out just before his mana was depleted too low to cast blink.  Items become the only differential, although most went with blade mail (20% damage returned to attacker).  It was a crazy match.

Was it fun? yes.  Did it get old? yes.  Would I do it again? no.  Did it feel like a real match? no.

Now I'm not saying that you'll likely see everyone with the same demi in demigod.  Hopefully all of the demi's will be balanced out enough that everyone won't want the same demigod, or the same 2 or 3 demigods.  But my point is, when you have multiples of the same demigod it warps the playing experience.

 

Yes RTS's allow for players to pick the same race.  Normally there are only 2, 3 or 4 races to select from so its an obvious neccessity.  Also, the races can be very unique from each other depending on what units you decide to build and what build/tech strategy you employ.  With demigod, the only real distinction will be items and a slight difference in the order of skills you choose to level.

 

I like to feel unique on the battle field.  The only game i've played like Demigod is Dota.  It just wouldn't feel right if there were 3 or 4 of the same heroes in dota.  You can't distinguish player 1 from player 2 very well since they have the same hero.  I'd hate to have 3 lina's stacking their ults on a couple of heroes.  I'd hate to have 5 zeuses with refreshers tko'ing the other team every 60 seconds.  I'd hate to have 20 meepo's running around on a team.  Do you see the point?  Each hero in Dota has been balanced so that it will be the only one on the field.  Sure Demigod could go in a different direction, and balance it appropriatly, but I can't wrap my head around it.

Just my opinion of course.  Your entitled to your own.

 

PS "Lurkher, you re right when you say "In fact, I'm convinced, multiple picking hero will be available, so you can say what you want, this is useless.""  there's no basis from this besides your own gut feeling.

I totally agree with the above^

 

But it has been confirmed by Tyo on the gpg.net forums that you can have multiple heroes in ranked, and an option in multiplayer.

 

On the point of my Top Player argument look at sup com there are the 'top 100' and top player, granted it's degraded a little, but those were my lines of thinking. Also that most competitive games have a couple 'top players', and they're the people who decide how the game evolves (look at sup com), and I did respond to your post, because when you said competitive gaming that almost always means the top people, as the standings and the competitions rarely involve anyone else but at the top level.

 

And the second part about drafting and random helps make it fair for everyone involved, and was indeed part of your point.

 

So yes I did read your post.

 

Moreover to your redefinition of competitive gaming:

 

I think (personally) that to be the best player at a game, or even to be a good player, you have to be able to adapt to any situation, and handle any situation. By making it so that you can't have the same demigod in each match would promote learning new strategies and demigods.

 

It would also force the player base to learn how to defeat the 'imba' (in quotes because it's actually balanced most people just think it isn't) things. If two people of equal skill play an "imbalanced" demigod, 50/50 chance of winning. If only one person gets the "imbalanced" guy then that guy wins, assuming a random chance between the two for who gets it, it's still a 50/50 chance, and the losing player learns about a new hero and may a way to beat the "imbalanced" demigod.

 

No harm no foul and the winner learned nothing, and the loser perhaps got the counter to the "imbalanced" guy and now knows how to defeat him.

 

If they're of diffrent skill levels, well the better player should be able to cope by using a diffrent demigod, and the weaker will learn more than losing with a demigod hes allready lost with a bunch.

Fun read, Odit.

 

But the thing is, if everyone picked one unit, you'd just need one person going against the grain and pickin the hero that's good against them.

Like imagine your story, but instead of 5 Magina vs. 5 Magina it's 5 Magina vs. 4 Magina and 1 earthshaker, or pudge, or that hero with bloodlust i forgot it's name.

 

This is why you don't need to force uniques.

If you play DotA you'll notice one thing when it comes to competitive matches. It almost is never -AP(anyone can choose any hero). Why? It's a balance issue. Certain teams will have a distinct advantage. The dev's here will tell you till they are blue in the face that it is pretty balanced. No game is, it is never balanced. It is the players job in competitive gaming to find the exploits of their character and abuse it. So joining into a game where the other team has a set-up that they've practiced day after day with... it just isn't fair. Especially if they are against a team of random guys who never met before.I'm sure that they will have the option to allow multi picks on a hero. They don't have enough heroes to not allow that.

No matter how you put it, this is a strategy game. It may be action based but it is strategy and is about adaption and planning. If you can't play every hero than how can you believe you'd win against every hero. If I am not prepared for the tricks another player can use on me then I am at a disadvantage. It is not even good enough if I have seen these techniques before. Avoiding a tech. is only so good. To be a good player you have to be able to counter the move. If you know how to do it, then you can find where the weakeness are and intellegently plan to fight it.

To sum it up, it's only fair to have random/draft picks, and to be good at a game you have to have full knowledge of the game. You'd have to play every character a lot to get good, so why nto random/draft picks.

Thank you,
    cos(Ө)

For me, first i need to know how ranked match work. Is it 1v1 or 2v2 or 3v3 or NvN players? I don't think it's 1v1 at least. So it's mostlikely that ppl who play ranked matches are always be organized team. This mean they talked thing out before matches and discuss how they gonna choose their heroes right? So that mean who play this game without permanent team most likely to lose the ranked matches due to lacking of team synegy. Unless we split it out in 2 type of ranked match. Team ranked and Random Ranked. Guildwars did this they have Team arena which people come in organized team and Random Arena which anyone can join and randomly placed in teams. Of course random will have less strategy, tactics and team synergy but it'll be different if the game place player not exactly random but take player rank in consideration.

Now if we're in a team match, for the sake of squeezing out the most effective setup we will need to be able to select the same hero multiple times. That is for performance sake, this mean you can make the most DPS team by using 2 melee high damage heroes and 3 range high damage heroes for the setup. Or if you want a setup with the best stopping power, you can go 4 disablers and 1 snarer. This should be the way most organized team want it to be. To make it easier to understand, "I want to win, I want to use any mean neccessary in order to obtain victory". That's hardcore compettitors for you.

For casual players who love to play in a less tension games, maybe unique pick will suit them more. We will have more variety in the matches and it'll make the game more fun to watch and play. And yeah nobody will play only 1 hero forever. Everyone may want a change of thing once in a while. It'll be a good place to start mastering other heroes you aren't good at.

For non-ranked matches, it'd be free to select any restriction you want. It's a custom game after all.

For more idea on character selection, i think we should be able to choose "before" the match starts. That is after joining the game room, we can see which character is available and which is not. This way we can ban or restrict character easier and we can have a choice to leave the room cuz favourite character is already picked (in case they disable the multiple Demigods option). Thus prevent the unpleasant feeling of cannot choose their favourite and ragequiting. And more option to manage restriction on choosing Demigods for the host will be great too.