Spartan Spartan

Piracy: The Gaming Industry in Perspective & the Coming Storm

Piracy: The Gaming Industry in Perspective & the Coming Storm

Significant to SD/IC in a big way...

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=33624

I was doing my normal 3:00AM thing of reading news for a new day, when I should be sleeping like a normal person and I came across and very well written commentary on the coming storm that may yet still be avoided by game developers across the board.

What is the coming storm? It is the cold hard realization that the traditional business model employed in the gaming industry is severely flawed and in all likelihood utterly ruined already. The immediate question that naturally arise is 'what will/can the industry about it?'

Now what does this have to do with SD/IC you may be thinking? Well, without stealing the thunder of the article, let's say that the industry could learn a lot from SD/IC.

If you are interested in a well developed commentary please follow the link to the GamesIndustry.biz website.


Rob Fahey inked the editorial and entitled it User Friendly.



UPDATE: The original story link is here. I have changed the link since the editorial has been officially credited.

242,484 views 156 replies
Reply #51 Top
Clearly you didn't even read my post. I simply can't compete with someone who doesn't read my posts, so I'm just going to bow out and leave this thread.


You know how they say "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all"?

I was going to say something about how "if you don't have anything to argue, don't even post", but since you're fleeing from this thread after you made yourself look like an idiot, I guess you already know that lesson.

Let me quote the exact part where you embarrassed yourself.

Going by actual definitions and common sense

Going by actual definitions and common sense

-----> Going by actual definitions <------

-----> Going by actual definitions <-----


You're a ****ing tool. Clearly I didn't read your post - all two sentences of pointless noise of it.
Reply #52 Top
Hi, I'm rather new on this board and I'd like to express some of my views.
For me, personally, software piracy would be a very grey issue here in home country of Indonesia, where most softwares used are pirated. From the Operating Systems, Office applications up to computer games, are probably 99% pirated.
The government has been pressured by something called a Business Software Alliance sometime ago to crack down those pirates and pirated software retailers.

Software pirates here are easily accessible in many retailer shops in well known malls, and just last week a couple of shops at a certain IT mall in South Jakarta was cracked down, and the charges are being processed for the owner. But ironically, the main hub... the source of those pirate retailers which are located near the Chinatown (around western Jakarta) has still remain untouched for these past few years? Why... I don't know... probably the mafia there is too strong to be touched by the authorities?

Now, in these days where piracy is so rampant, I agree it's MUCH better to have softwares with minimal DRM issues than encountering softwares which punishes people who don't own legitimate versions of the said software (and perhaps, punish those who own the legitimate ones too).

I've purchased the download version of SINS, and enjoy it very much. I know it's quite a hefty price (using the TotalGaming.Net's token system, it still cost roughly a fifth of my monthly wage) but it's pretty much worth it. But how about my friends, the average gamer who would be reluctant to spend $40 of their $250/month wage?

The truth so just hurt.
Reply #53 Top
Mikey from THQ embodies what is wrong with the PC industry.

I can make up numbers to prove anything too, 55% of people can tell you that.

Bioshock console sales were higher than PC sales? Really? COD4 too? WOW. Wonder if that is because everyone has a console and not everyone has a high end gaming PC?

"Europe is 90% and Asia is off the charts"

90% isn't off the charts? Really? I guess it is to be expected from the publisher that pumps out WWE, Spongebob and Bratz games.




Reply #54 Top
Fraix:

Yeah, you're right. My car payment takes up 35% of my monthly income, I should just steal someone else's.

If you can't afford to game, you can't afford to game. Spending 18% of your monthly income on a luxury item is insane. You don't need video games to live, sorry.
Reply #55 Top
My car payment takes up 35% of my monthly income, I should just steal someone else's.


It's more like having a magic device that makes a copy of the car you want, and using that instead.

Sure makes the 'theft' thing sound a lot more stupid, huh?

The manufacturer didn't spend any money making your car, the person whose car you copied didn't lose anything to clone the car, you just got net gain for zero net loss.
Reply #56 Top
So then, U235, you really wish to drag me into this, do you?

Going by your logic (They didn't lose possession of their property that you gained, so it's not wrong) I guess you wouldn't mind if someone recorded all your phone conversations, you still had your phone conversations, you didn't lose anything, so that's a-ok, right?

What's with the personal attacks, too? Can't you be civil and stick to the issues instead of making personal attacks?
Reply #57 Top
Lets keep this thread mature and civil guys - OK... Leave the bullshit at home where it belongs.

Anyway, the real issue at hand has nothing to do with ownership or any ideas of ownership and property or theft and infringement as far as I'm concerned. Because in my opinion none of that really comes into play. People need to see this for what it is and that we are paying for an experience that many people have spent countless hours crafting. It is nothing more and nothing less.
Reply #58 Top
Well, going back to the OP, I think the growing success of stardock and steam shows that digital distribution is rapidly gaining support, so I agree that the industry's business model is going to go through significant changes.
Reply #59 Top
At the risk of impugning my own reputation, little as it may be around here...

I pirated the game, I wandered into Pirate Bay snagged a torrent allowed my healthy 10mb/second cable line to pull the image, mounted it, installed it, and have been happily playing ever since.

Now, before the flames begin allow me to illustrate a couple points. First, within US law you are allowed possession of any copyrighted work for any purpose for the period of 24 hours. This means that software piracy is perfectly legal as long as you delete it or purchase a license in the first day. Also copyright law is very specific in that it requires you to actually SELL the software to be in the wrong. Morally this might be an issue but it is not a legal one, if you don't like this situation I suggest you get educated and involved in the political process.

Now this being said, I got the pirate copy because I wanted to check the the game out. This was 2 days after the release, I had no friends with the game nor a demo to download. I played 1 round, actually it wasn't even a full round I think I played for about 30 min before it sank in that someone has finally made a replacement for Ascendancy. Yes I still play old DOS games. Shortly after this realization I turned off the game and did some googling. It took all of about 10 more minutes before I found out Ironclad's position on DRM and armed with that knowledge I promptly picked up my keys and spent the next 4 hours driving around town to purchase a copy of the game. Given gas prices I think I spent more on gas finding this game than I spent on the game itself...

So for me time from pirate to purchase would have been a matter of moments had the local retailers had stock to purchase.

Now to look back I wish I had stumbled across the electronic purchase I would have gone that route happily because I know it makes Ironclad a better return. Not to mention the desktop theme and some of the other extras that I probably wouldn't ever use but would have been nice to have.

Now, Stardock and Ironclad thanks to their stance on DRM have simply guaranteed that even if I HATE the game they produce as long as they stand by their no DRM policy I will purchase the game.

I only pirate games to check them out normal games are $50 a piece and I don't have that kind of money to just lose on bad entertainment. If the game is worth the money it is purchased, if it isn't I know in the first half hour and the trash is removed and deleted. It is really quite simple. Unfortunately I know I'm the minority in this situation. There are far too many people that just say to themselves I've already got this why pay for it? I'm a network engineer by trade, I know how many hours it takes just to test this stuff much less write it. I made my purchase of this product proudly, despite my current financial issues due to a loss of 2 months of income thanks to my company going bankrupt.

Stardock, Ironclad, please accept my congratulations on a job well done here. Not only have you produced a marvelous game, but you understand the rights of the customer. Your lack of DRM malware, and support for your product shines as an example for others to follow. You have a life time customer right here and I'll make sure to spread the news of any other of your titles.

Now please, can I convince you to to brow beat a European distributer into carrying this thing. I have several buddies over seas that have their pirate bay specials waiting to purchase. Not all of these people have credit cards to get it from your site!
Reply #60 Top
I think the vast majority of games that I own, the purchases were made, based on my impression of the demo. Games that don't have demos, I tend to just ignore, unless it's something I'm almost positive I'll want (Master of Orion 3, x-com apocalpyse, Sins) Hmm, of the 70 jewel cases of games or so I can see from my chair, I think those may be the only ones I bought without playing a demo, or seeing someone else play.) That shows how incredibly important demos are to me. Maybe I'm a rare exception? What does everyone else think about demos?
Reply #61 Top
Nope your not alone. I "pirate" games to demo them as well. Unless I know someone who has the game then I just try it out at there place.

If there is a demo I will download that and try it out. But the fact is that demos hardly ever come out before the game. So I rarely get to demo something when I would like to.
Reply #62 Top
@Sky - thats cool. We have had many people fess up here the past couple weeks. I think SD/IC is going to start an amnesty program. It is also a testament to Frogboys philosophy, which I also happen to share and an outright bitch slap in the face of all those people screaming for DRM and complaining that DRM is a necessary thing in this day and age if a company is going to stay in business.

@Durkkan - I dont like demos since they are usually a scripted thing or a very heavily crippled game. The only type of demos I like are the ones companies like AutoDesk and Adobe have which are fully functional timed versions. Thus I have purchased all there products despite never really using them. I have also purchased several SD titles and have never used them because SD is cool like that.

On a related note, anyone not familiar with Intellectual Property Protection (IIP) as a basic concept for the gaming industry and many others for that matter, Gamesutra has recently published a very well done primer. You can read it here.
Reply #63 Top
@Sky - thats cool. We have had many people fess up here the past couple weeks. I think SD/IC is going to start an amnesty program. It is also a testament to Frogboys philosophy, which I also happen to share and an outright bitch slap in the face of all those people screaming for DRM and complaining that DRM is a necessary thing in this day and age if a company is going to stay in business.


You know it goes so much farther yet falls right on this statement...

Right now I would love to play Bioshock. There is just something about that game that intrigues me. Now, why don't I just go buy a copy? Simple, SecureROM, if I install ANYTHING with that garbage in it my Pioneer Dual layer DVD-RW drive simply vanishes from Windows! Why does this happen? Because SecureRom operates on top of a ring zero root kit! I really wish I could send the people that protect thier games with this trash the bills when people bring me their PC's when crap goes wrong with this stuff. All DRM does is make more moving parts to fail, which boils down to the legal customer paying the price for it. Pirates? They have had a SecureRom free version of Bioshock installed and playing for months. I can't pirate this, because I won't buy it.

Now that being said I am aware that my copies of THQ's Supreme Commander have this technology built in. But these guys were intelligent enough to issue a patch dumping the protection software shortly after the thing was cracked! So yeah I installed it, my DVD drive vanished, I applied a patch and POOF drive is back. This seems to me an intelligent use of DRM. If you're going to use it, ditch it the instant it becomes useless. I support either approach honestly, if you are harmed by DRM you just wait a week for the crack and the problems vanish.

From a support angle, I just have to wonder how many support calls are from failed DRM. Seriously, has anyone seen the problems with Vista activation lately? DRM in music (iTunes), OS, games, whatever just plain doesn't work. And it will never work as long as the PC remains an open platform.

So go console? Umm I don't get console gaming...

Call me ancient for being around games and playing them since my C64 days in 85, but since when is it ok to go out and spend $600 every two years for a new console and then complain that your PC requires a $100 video card to play a new game every year? Even with upgrades keeping your PC up to date is cheaper, and you can use the thing for far more than just games.

That being said, I own a Wii. I love watching my three year old kick people's butt bowling...
Reply #64 Top
As someone who has, admittedly, pirated games previously, I figured I'd throw in my two cents worth. I'm not going to go over the whole moral argument, because its pointless. People have different morals and the varied sides of that argument will almost never sway the others to their side.

What I'd like to bring up, however, is how and why users fall into the piracy side to begin with.

The article Spartan linked does hit it on the head, largely -- a better experience via pirated versions than legally purchased versions. One can argue that you can do both (buy the game, then pirate it for the better experience and be in the "right" completely), but that could also, arguably, lead to a continuation of the process that motivated one to have to do both and does not really result in an eventual solution.

Personally, the first time I pirated a game it was shortly after Age of Empires 2 had been released; I bought the game, at a whopping $90 CAD (normal version, not some sort of collectors edition). I found this a tad insulting, but figured since I enjoyed the hell out of the original, it was worth the price. Needless to say, I disliked the sequel. Partly due to design decisions made that just turned me away from enjoying the product, and partly because of the hardware/software compatibility issues mentioned previously in this thread; the game was often crashing on me, despite myself having an up-to-date everything (it turned out the problem was an issue with the up-to-date drivers, and not the fault of the game).

Back then, as a student in High School, $90 was more than a fair chunk of my income, and it burned me out on the blind-faith purchasing of games, as the return policy back then (and still in place today in many regions) was that an opened PC game package was non-returnable, due to the "piracy" concerns (i.e; buying the game, copying it, then returning the game). I started to avidly use demos, reviews and the like to try and minimize bad purchases. It didn't help much. Scripted demos, or demos where the game ran flawlessly, but the same level in the retail version was buggy, made one jaded to the value of demos. Reviews have always been iffy; and are even more so now due to ever increasing need for review sites to be profitable and actual companies (so they can get advance copies of the games, get into the various functions, careers, etc; where in the "old" days, most review sites were simply fans doing it in their free time).

So, I pirated games so I could "demo" them properly before purchasing them. And it stayed that way for awhile. And then I met Starforce protection. Downloaded a game, played it.. loved it. Bought it. And as many others would also experience, had issues due to Starforce. In one case, I had to replace my CD drive because of it. And that was when I "had" it. I stopped caring about the moral aspect of pirating games. I could no longer trust retail versions. And because of that, they no longer deserved my money.

Yes, I admit what I began to do then was "wrong", but I didn't really care. I started to pirate almost every game I wanted to play; a trend that I've only recently (last year) stopped, in part. I've gone back to the demo-pirate reasoning, but as more stores in my area are more open to returns, that likely will change soon. The motivation for my change of heart back into purchasing games was a simple one; by being able to download so many games, pay nothing for them.. it somehow removed the enjoyment. I was playing games, beating them and doing it as quickly as I could, so I could move onto the next game. I was no longer playing games to enjoy them. When I realized that, I started to download games again to test them, then buy them if the DRM was a non-issue.. and I started to enjoy gaming again.

But I'm a tech savvy, hardcore gamer. My mother, however, is not. She is the type of gamer the industry wants to tap; the casual gamer who has rarely ever played video games. The Sims got her into it.

And a couple months ago, she asked me if it was safe to buy one of the expansions to The Sims 2, because on the forums.. people were complaining of how the protection scheme (Securom) was causing issues, and in some cases, making bricks out of their DVD players/writers, amongst other issues.

And then my mother asked something; if I would show her how to "pirate" the game. She'd bought the expansion, but was scared to install the retail version. Scared to install a purchased product. And with something like The Sims 2 expansion, one of the most common entry-vehicles for the masses into gaming. Scared.

And that is something the industry has to change. Losing me as a buyer is nothing to the industry. I'm a hardcore gamer, I'm a part of the minority of the market they sell to. My mother is part of the lucrative majority, and the future of the industry's expansion. And people like her will do one of two things; fall into piracy out of mis-trust like I had, and like my mother ended up doing (which was in part due to knowing I had/have pirated games), or they will simply walk away from gaming. And I believe most will be the latter of the two choices, because of the very fact they are so casual. They will have no qualms about simply.. not gaming.

Sorry for the length, guess its a tad more than my two cents worth, but oh well.

Quality and DRM are the two biggest reasons of piracy to exist. Almost everyone I know who pirates, or has pirated, games fell into doing it for one of those two reasons; usually both. And once you started getting something for free, it becomes harder and harder to walk away from it. Its intoxicating, especially in the hyper-consumerism and high-priced costs of today; getting something for free at virtually no risk.

But, most people are willing to shell out their cash for quality, safe products, as online music stores have begun to show, even with mass availability of quality, safe pirated versions. The question is if the trend will continue, or if the gaming (and movie/music) industries will continue to alienate potential customers by making purchasing harder and less rewarding than piracy.

[For the record, I purchased Sins as a pre-order, before its release, due to a friend who was in the Beta, and prior experience with Stardock via Galciv -- the game isn't really my thing, but that's only due to design decisions, not quality issues, and thus I'm happy with my purchase [even if delivery took forever! :p] due to that.]
Reply #65 Top
to OrangeJumpSuits ---> Thats bullsh.it man..

If someone cant afford a game he cant play it? whats a difference to devs if he cant afford it and do nothin or pirate it and enjoy the game? with piracy - the priviledge to playing expensive games only if you r rich fall of. Im from Czech republic and I carefully choose who to support with money...depends on cost and quality of the game.
So your theory about who can play and who cant is silly :)
Reply #67 Top
This is beyond worthless at this point. You are arguing over the legality/morality of stealing. If you can not afford to buy something it does not justify the theft of it.
Go ahead and walk into an electronics store and take a copy of SOASE out the front door without paying, I'm sure your arguments will win over mall security.
Reply #68 Top
Not the same... If you steal something in shop - its theft because the thing costs something to producer, so you stole his invested money in product... but software dont hurt to devs because there is no difference in pirating/not buying

But i definitely like SD/IC policy and will fairly support it
Reply #70 Top
There's an important difference between piracy and stealing a game from the shop: The game from the shop has a real value, stealing it causes financial damage. Disc, manual, box and shipping cost money, putting it on the shelves costs money.
A pirated copy has no real value, since it is immaterial. The only (and not measurable) value it has is the money the publisher MIGHT have earned, if it had not been pirated.

This of course does not justify piracy. I just hate these "pirates are thieves" arguments. That sounds like taken directly from the RIAA's (or their counterparts in other content industries) propaganda. Often piracy is just a reaction to the publisher's attitude towards the customers. If you treat me, an honest customer, like a common thief I have no reason not to act like one. Most publishers fail to see that their (sometimes desperate) measures against piracy only further alienate their customers, causing the piracy problem to grow further. In that context the fear of piracy tends to have become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

So what can the publishers do against piracy? The answers have already been given in this forum and some mentioned articles. SD/IC's way of treating customers and not using DRM are the most important step. Also the constant exchange between developers and community, including beta tests going on in the public, not hidden away and shielded behnd NCA's greatly helps to get an accurate picture of the game, countering the idea of "pirating the game to see if it's worth the money".
Therefore I believe that SD/IC have found the only way out of the piracy trap that other publishers complain about so much and it's showing in the sales figures. Of course even Sins will be pirated by some people. Games will always be pirated. But I expect the percentage to be much much lower than with most other games.

And a final word concerning that study about piracy percentages: Don't take it to serious. With studies you always have to ask who paid for it. He who pays makes the numbers. ;)
Reply #71 Top
You can't say that a pirated copy has no real value. It has a real value. In the case of SOASE that value is 39.99 USD.

It's not stealing if I have a long enough straw I guess.

I hate these "Pirates are social Robin Hoods" arguments. No, they are people who want something for nothing, and can steal something via their computers with much less risk than if they walked into a store and shoplifted. Same crime. The paper manual/box/dvd blank cost argument is crap. If I rob a bank I'm only stealing paper and ink then, as paper money is valueless until someone else honors the value of it.

You are arguing that you are paying 39.99 for a cardboard box and manual.

Reply #72 Top
A digital copy of any software downloaded from a server or any p2p method that doesn't incur a bandwidth cost for the developer or the publisher can't be called stealing because neither of those lost anything. (i'm not saying it shouldn't be a crime)

Saying that it can't be a crime isn't very reasonable either, look at books. Basically what all publishers do is to reproduce the same text(s), would you say it's right to get a copy and reproduce it yourself making it so that the publisher (or the store) doesn't incur any loss?

---

For me the gaming industry's problem can be tributed to many things like:

1) Bad/short games most of the times costs as much as a good game.
2) Nominal pricing - the "50 [insert currency]" fetiche - and i can think of at least 2 games i didn't buy due to this - nightfall for guildwars and LOTRO
3) When buying a game is harder than getting a pirated copy, then you're doing something wrong. One of the human being's main attributes is rationality, it's irrational to spend a lot of time to get a game to work when it would be much easier to just download a pirated copy (and if, in the end, it doesn't work either, at least you didn't lose anything)
Reply #73 Top
Stardock has a different kind of lock, its called your beat for using stardock central for updates but gaming pirates get around that anyways. The simplest way to fix piracy stop being lazy with the methods of protection. Have the game contact one of 3 servers as a check once a day even to check your serial thats saved along with some user/password. (Dont give me the I dont have internet babble) when pretty much 95% of people under the age of 50 do. The ones that don't usually cant even afford to get a game anyways.

Piracy is overrated just like everything else in the NEWS. Most of the time a person who pirates a game also pirates 10 others too in the same duration. How many of those 11 game titles would that person buy?? Probably really 1 out of 11 if that.

What I think is that most PC games should be intially FREE. You pay by month subscription with access to multiple titles. Honestly alot more titles would be tried out for a month by users that wouldnt pay the normal price anyways so the ocmpanies wouldnt loose money
Reply #74 Top
Just because something is digital doesn't mean it's not stealing. So you are stealing (taken something without permission that doesn't belong to you) just the same if steal from the store or pirate the game online. It's the same someone stealing from your wallet ( something physical) or change a number online in your bank account. In today's world a number on the internet (information) has the same value as physical money.

I'm amaze how easy for people to justify their wrong doing. I glad to read some here who stole off the internet decided to do the right thing and buy the game. If you are going to try a game out online before buying then first get the owner's permission. If you don't then you are not borrowing their material but you are stealing it.
Reply #75 Top
"It's the same someone stealing from your wallet ( something physical) or change a number online in your bank account. "

No its not, someone stealing a game by pirating does not cost publishers or devs any money if they never gonna buy it anyway.

yet someone stealing from my wallet or bank is taking money from me that i had.

yes pirating a game is stealing but its not the same, that is why you have never heared of the goverment arresting people for downloading games.

its why game companys dont bother to go after pirates either.

Companys that claim pirates are over 75% in NA, need to start offering proof or STFU making up numbers just makes them look bad.


Also they refuse to admit many pirates go out and buy the game after trying it out, either to get online pay or to support the company.


Good games will always be around, what we will see is all the small crap going out the window as bad dev teams wont find money or work anymore.

TQ was a decent game but it was a D2 clone it even used many of there sounds. it had problems even for those of us who bought the game, just because you ran flawless does not mean everyone else did as well, since so many difrent configs can cause problems.


PC games will be around as long as PCs are made, companys are moving to consoles not because of pirates but because it is easier.

the fewer and fewer pc games made just means more pirates will move to consoles and console pirates will climd.