(1) PC gaming isn't dying. Not even close. It's influence is shrinking for now, at most. (ha, I made a poem) Years ago, before the Xbox came out, PC gaming was pretty near 80-90% of all videogame industry... stuff. What's happened is that the market (the people that play video games) has been expanded. It's no longer something computer nerds do in an attempt to recapture gold-from-the-past such as the Quest For Glory series or Shadow of the Horned Rat or something like that - the market has expanded to a MUCH wider audience. The percentage compared to the total video game 'stuff' of the PC is now a lot lower since Microsoft's ad campaign with the Xbox practically struck gold. But the same number of people that used to play video games on PC most certainly still do, and there are even a lot more than there used to be - spillover from the enormous expansion of video game enthusiasts (ironically).

What's happened is that, unfortunately, marketers have decided that the strength of their market lies in their fanboyish 'loyalty' to a very specific subset of game platforms (i.e. Xbox marketers say PS3/Wii sucks and so on). They could have really struck gold by befriending the PC gaming community instead of turning their uninformed hordes against us. Now they have engendered a lot of hate and distrust from the PC gaming community. So a big topic in the video game industry media is how 'oh yeah PC games are dead as doorknob, Wii/Xbox/PS3 is the future' etc. etc.

In reality, even incomplete sales figures show PC on top or at least very close (depending on which statistics you look at) when compared with the consoles INDIVIDUALLY. As a whole, combined console sales dwarf PC games, but that's meaningless. You think all the games sold on Steam or on SDC are counted in these statistics? The reality is most of them aren't. Most of these statistics come from retail sales in stores like EB Games, which might as well be called EB Xbox360/PS3 Games these days. It'd be sort of like asking Playstation Magazine about Wii sales statistics. The numbers are going to work in their favor. Self-fulfilling prophecy and all that...

What's REALLY surprising is how WELL PC gaming is doing when you consider that publishers and developers have gotten lax and tend to churn out crap that might do well for the fresh console market but will utterly disappoint the more demanding PC market. It's depressing to think that I used to buy games regularly in the 90's, but now I have to mill around and LOOK for good games to buy. Fortunately there are beacons of hope like Stardock, Valve, and Blizzard that don't play the industry-is-going-through-another-phase-pc-gaming-is-dead game.

(2) I'd have to agree here. 10 years ago, if people didn't buy your game, it sucked. Now if people don't buy your game, it was so good that everyone pirated it. That's their story at least. Yeah Unreal Tournament III was a marvelous wonderful pile of bloom, why wouldn't people love it? (note: sarcasm detectors on, please)

(3) This is definitely one of several reasons that a person might prefer a console gaming environment over a PC gaming environment, but the biggest reason that dwarfs all other reasons is pure advertising. Also, things like this and marketing fool everyone into believing that you can only go console or PC and not both as you obviously have (even I have one of the current consoles in my dwelling).

(4) Funny thing about that. If I had the choice between buying one of those TV's and upgrading/buying another computer, guess what I'd do? Certainly a lot of people like their HDTV's and that's a factor in getting a console, but if you're gonna cite the cost of PC power vs. console power, then you need to include this in your figures.

You are right in a way. The 1920x1080 is a very large resolution which most people don't have available on their PC's (probably only very few have larger than 1280x960 or so), but unfortunately the TVs seem to have arbitrary sizes such that the wonderful richness of the resolution is lost in really ugly stretching - this is not a big deal, but it is something I personally notice that bothers me. The games look great in a store with a 'TV' the size of a 1920x1080 monitor, but beyond that the image quality suffers.

(5) See (4). This might have been true a few years ago when the consoles first came out, but now I can buy a whole machine for less than 800 USD that will absolutely destroy any console in terms of performance. Most people won't have to do this. They have future-proofed their past purchases and only have to upgrade their video card and/or processor. 400 USD buys a nice Core2Duo and a 9600GT.

(6) I'm gonna have to disagree here. The actual greatest incentive is game quality. It's funny though because publishers like EA believe their own lies these days. The graphics issue is just another advertising my-peen-is-bigger-than-your-peen plug (same as it is on the PC). I remember when graphics used to be a selling point. These days it's all they're selling.

(7) This is one of the major advantages a PC has over a console (the other is the interface). Until consoles become totally EQUIVALENT to PCs, they won't have this.

(8) This is the issue I was talking about earlier. Game publishers jump on the console bandwagon because they've fooled themselves into believing that piracy is killing their PC market. The mistake is that, IF piracy was such a big deal on the PC, it will eventually be just as big a deal on the consoles. There's only ONE step of difference between a PC and a console to pirate a game - burning the physical disk.

(9) As a former musician, I've always held the belief that, if people will not buy my music, I'd rather them download and listen to it than not listen to it. This is the essence of the difference between stealing cars and infringing copyright. Still, if you like something, support the people that make it available to you. Not only is it right, but it makes the world a better place.

(10) Bang-on. These guys make excellent quality games, and they have had a lot of success. It took them a long time to get here, but they have grown from being very small and fragile to having loads of money - I can't wait for the turn-based fantasy game and the Sins expansion.

(11) I would think it would be best to encourage people not to even TOUCH or think of games of low quality. Don't even give them the piracy angle. Just refuse to have anything to do with crap games. This has the advantage of being legal .

It'd be interesting to hear more people with console+PC.

While it may seem PC gaming is doing well from your perspective (I am unsure as to what your perspective is; hardcore 4x?), it is definitely not. Unfortunately, "well" is a subjective term and is open to interpretation. The fact of the matter is that PC sales have gone down significantly since consoles began to catch up in graphics and features (xbox live, anyone?). Particularly FPS, sports, and adventure games. MMO's and RTS's don't do too badly (WoW, AoE, Sins, Starcraft//2).

While, again, a few years ago the high def tv arguement would certainly be valid, it will not when in February 2009 North America goes digital. That's right folks, you will basically need a high definition tv in the near future. Also a factor in this arguement is the knowledge of electronics of the average person. While I'm sure there are many tech saavy individuals who would choose a sweet gaming rig over a 1080p LCD, I think the vast majority of people would not have to think twice (football in high def!?).

Again, you fail to take into account the focus of this discussion is a very large mass of people, not hardcore gamers or electronically inclined people. We are talking average Joe's who couldn't care less if their TV was 1080i or 1080p. These are not the people that build their own computers, or even upgrade them. These are the type of people Dell and Compaq thrive off of; the one's who buy a new computer every 5 years that they pay $2500 for and can never even get to work properly. The allure of a next-gen console to the average person thus becomes not only indisputible, but obvious.

It would be a mistake to think you couldnt sell a low quality game with nice graphics to alot of people. It happens all the time. The console market is flooded with examples.

And finally, I am not an "industry insider". I do know a number of people who have worked on some very, very good games, but I cannot claim this as first hand knowledge. It is my understanding companies turn to console games for the obvious reason that they can make more money. Whether it is that they don't need to provide as much support (usually disconnected communities), or they believe piracy is a serious issue; it doesn't matter. Oh, and the massive marketing campaigns are no doubt a huge help for sales. Micro$oft incentives to be 360 exclusive, first release, etc. are also in play.

The console market, sadly, will probably always make up the largest market share of video games, and PC gaming will be phased out into a niche market. On the bright side, we have StarDock

Just a note: digital broadcasting will not require the customer to have HDTVs.

(1) My perspective is based on the number of people buying and playing PC games. Consider it like this. In 1990, there were X people playing PC games. In 1995, there were a lot more. 1998 waaay more. 2000 more again. Fast-forward to 2008 and... the PC market is still growing. As really high-tech gear becomes cheaper and more people get broadband availability, the internet will drive people to at least LEARN that PC games exist.

My point was that saying that PC gaming is dying is silly if it's still growing, still expanding. Let's say there are 1 billion people playing PC games (I know, this is far too many, this is just a demonstrative example). If, tomorrow, 4.5 billion people buy Xbox360s and .5 billion people buy PCs for gaming, you wouldn't say PC gaming is dying. It's just tooling around with statistics. That's the only point I was making.

(2) Sorry, but that's a totally unfair statement. The government even has a program to subsidize people buying converter boxes to convert their analogue to digital. There are many many TVs that are digital and are NOT high-def in any meaning of the word.

(3) You're right. But the 'PC gaming is dying' argument is basically saying that these people have stopped playing PC games and have started playing console games. It just isn't true. These non-techno-savvy people never even played video games on the scale they do now. A whole new infant generation of videogamers was born when Microsoft successfully marketed Halo on the Xbox. But it's not as if these people are migrating away from the PC. That's the point I was making.

(4) I didn't fail to take that into account, I was speaking from the point of view of someone a little more informed than Mom and Pop. You are of course correct here. People that are less 'up' on PCs are more likely to go for consoles for gaming. This doesn't equate, however, to PC gaming dying (and that's what most of my response was aimed at).

(5) Again, you have hit the nail on the head. This is what I was talking about, how the market has been expanded so that PC gamers are no longer in the majority (at least if you count them against all three major consoles).

(6) I'm not sure what point this was in response to, but trust me, I know this . I have seen Lair and many other very very poor-quality games with terrible bugs, AI, voice acting, writing, story etc. etc. the list goes on. They sell like hotcakes for now, but it would be foolish to think you could shit in a box, turn on the bloom, and sell it in the fashion we do now indefinitely. The market the consoles have is a new one, and they are less discerning as a whole, but as time goes on, they will demand just as much quality as PC gamers demand, and the lazy pubs/devs will be in the same hard spot.

(7) There are a great many reasons for and against developing console games. The reasons for are fairly straightforward: more people are likely to buy your game (especially if it's crap), you are developing for a single hardware/software configuration. Every other reason is very minor. The first reason will eventually go away (or at least diminish greatly).

(8) In my 6 billion people example, PC gaming would be considered a niche market. However, the term itself doesn't mean much since it's a relative value. What really matters is the absolute value. PC gaming will continue to grow as computers become more technologically capable, more user-friendly, cheaper, and a more integral part of people's lives. Whether the console markets combined overshadows the PC or not really doesn't matter. The PC will continue to grow despite clever abuses of statistics. This is all I was really making a case for.

LOL PC/Console, what is the difference these days? PCs have a Mobo, HD, RAM, CPU, GPU, Monitor(or HDTV), keyboard, mouse, speakers, PSU, CD/DVD player, and a case. Including the TV & speakers, so does the 360. I bet soon we will see console PCs that have all the benefits of a console, but can fully replace the PC. The XBox360 could probably be considered a media PC; so it is fairly close to being a reality. They will likely find a way to keep it proprietary though I'm ok with dual booting or using Vertual PC, but I won't buy 3 sets of hardware when I have one perfectly good set.

About anti-piracy, while it is fine for MP only games to require a login, I refuse to buy games that require the internet to install and/or play single player and I won't turn to pirating them. I want to be able to play a SP game 5 years from now and not have to worry if they closed down the server. As much as it may be a license I buy for a game, just as with movies, I want to play old games 20 years from now if I want to. BTW VirtualPC is great if you happen to have a copy of DOS.

For games with CD checks, I always download a no-cd to keep my discs in good condition and not have to keep inserting a cd. The no-cd's are so easy to get that it's stupid (just goto megagames for most of them) and if you can't get one, they aren't hard to make. Not to mention mini-iso's that let you virtually mount a game disc with the minimum amount of data needed to bypass the protection. Do they even know this only pisses people off?

BTW This thread is a good read, except I did skipped a page (I couldn't stand the piracy/theft/stealing argument anymore) so don't kill me if I repeated something someone said

PC Games need advertising, that is all.