Major Stress Major Stress

[MOD WIP] Star Trek: Sacrifice of Angels 2 (updated 01/10/09)

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[MOD WIP] Star Trek: Sacrifice of Angels 2 (updated 01/10/09)

from Sins Forums

Featured (by a small mention) in the October edition of PC Gamer magazine

Candidate for Mod Database's 2008 Mod of the Year

This is the OLD "Work in Progress" thread for the Star Trek: Sacrifice of Angels 2 mod.

The new WIP topic is here https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/342747

The "Release" topic can be found here https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/322473


The mod is intended to be a hommage, and tribute to the original Sacrifice of Angels mod for Homeworld. It will use many of the same models, and effects created for that mod by the Trekmods team. Like the original SoA mod SoA2 is set during the Dominion War era of Star Trek. Using both canon, and non-canon units to recreate those battles with Sins "empire building" mechanic added. Like in SoA you can fight battles in SoA2 using hundreds of starships. Sometimes thousands if your computer can handle it ;)

While the mod was not intended as a "Total Conversion". That is exactly what it is winding up being. There is much about the Sins engine, and mechanics that we still need to learn. There are some hard coded stumbling blocks we have to overcome.

The factions will be the Federation, Klingons, Romulan, and the Dominion (with Breen, and Cardassian ally units). The main factions seen in the Dominion War. With a "Surprise" as the Pirate faction.

Factions like the Borg "may" be added in the future. LokiGodofMischief is working on a very good 3rd party Borg add on for SoA 2. It is very possible his add on may be merged with SoA 2 at a much later time.

The current version of SoA 2 is  0.03b   "The Second Dominion War". Look for it here  https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/322473

0.03b only works with Sins versions 1.1, 1.11, and 1.12.

All previous versions of SoA 2 are obsolete, and will not be supported, or hosted anymore. All older version downloads will be removed.

We will NOT port SoA 2 over to Entrenchment until after Entrenchment is out of beta, and released. Along with proper forge tool updates.

I am working on the models mostly ALONE so it may take a while for any new ship model updates.

Darkshimmer is the Balancing guru, Code monkey, and Master at arms. We do have other contributers, and the best 3rd party work from the finest artists in the trek mod community to help make SoA 2 the best it can be.

Status of Demo 0.04  "The actors are in place" 

Will update when i have news.

General Changes:

Manshooters Volumetric Explosions mod will be included as of 0.03a

May include Sins Plus (planets), but ill need to see how much that mod needs changing to incorporate into SoA 2.

SoA 2 0.03 and above is now patch 1.1, and better compatable. Sins patches 1.11, and 1.12 only address balancing, and online exploits, and have no effect on the mod.

Ships will have some anti stike craft weaponry.

Ships are still being added and balanced accordingly.

More re-balancing so that one faction is not overpowered over the other.

The Federation:

Faction is complete. Only structures left

The Klingon Empire

Faction is complete. Only structures left.

The Romulan Star Empire:

Faction is complete. Only structures left

The Dominion:

Faction is complete. Still needs balancing work.

Pirates:

They were going to be the Borg, but that idea failed. So we are looking into Random multirace ship spawns.

Planetary Defenders

Basically "Ships of the week" like the Maquis, Sona, Ferrengi, Tammarian battle cruisers and the like.

Balancing:  Darkshimmer has the Federation, Romulan, and Klingon Empire, and Unified Dominion balanced.

Gameplay: We now have a working Cloaking Device! Check the ModDB page for the WIP video. Cloaking will not be fully implemented in the mod until version 0.04

Art: We are working on an LCARS style UI, adding proper icons, and pictures for all of the new units. The UI is going to take a while to do, because of all of the redundancy of the Sins UI. SoA 2 uses 2 sets of UI textures. Instead of the standard 4 textures for buttons, and 2 textures for icons. SoA 2 uses 8 textures for buttons, and 4 textures for icons which IMO is a major waste of resources, because sins loads all these textures at startup. Unfortunetly i dont see any other way to do it. What is kind of cool is that we dont have to use the same HUD for each faction. It is possible to have unique HUDs, but again the perfomance hit, because of the extra drain on resources could be big, and not worth it.

In Planning: (No promises, or guarentees, but we will try to add these if possible.)

Troop Transport effects.

Planetary invasion animations

Tractor beams. (need a code monkey for this)

Whatever else we can think of and are capable of doing.

Future Updates:

SoA 2 0.04 is now in planning, and will be focused primarily on Proper research trees, Ability's, and adding proper Structures. More than likely demo 0.04 will be the last demo. After that then the full mod should be ready.

SoA 2 0.05 will be the final spit, and polish of the mod. It will focus mainly on re-balancing if needed. Also final artwork changes will be made here. Which will include some ship model re-builds, and re-texturing.

The Full SoA 2 1.0 mod will be released "When it is Finished". We are doing this on our own free time. We aren't getting paid to do this. We have no set schedule. We have no time limit. I want this one to be good. So it wont go online until we feel it is ready.

*NOTE: Much about Sins as we are all now realizing is hardcoded. SoA 2 is going to be far from a perfect "trek" mod due to these hardcoded issues. However we will try to do the best we can with workarounds, and compromises to get it as close as possible. Like i said some things wont be perfect. Some things cannot be done at all. Enjoy the mod for what it is, and try not to be too "nit picky".

SoA2 will be hosted on Mod Database once it is ready http://www.moddb.com/mods/star-trek-sacrifice-of-angels-2

This main header will be updated when i have news to post.





modding
4,105,581 views 1,754 replies
Reply #126 from Sins Forums Top
Ok, i worked on a wish list of my own for the fed fleet, but i lost it last night. very upsetting, however it seems that isnt really wanted right now anyway. So ill give you the major tweeks i had.

The Defiant, IMO, should be a "Heavy Frigate." have it replace the flag frig spot, since that wont exist anymore. The Defiant is just too small to be considered a cruiser, yes it could kick many a cruisers butt, with its weaponary. However, it simply does not have the hull strength (or size) to classify as a cruiser. I know many will disagree, and save yourself the time in posting. I already understand. This is my personal opinion, and if it did wind up being a cruiser i would still definitely play with it ;-)

Make the Akira the "Heavy Cruiser" its not really a cap ship. Its simply much smaller then all the other large ships on the list. Yes its well designed but, it simply doesn't have the same girth (both structurally and weaponry) as the other behemoths of the federation.

Heres my personal opinion on fighters. There are two different classes in the game right now, why not have Perigrin (however its spelt) and shuttles. The shuttles of course would SUCK, except they would be good at hitting perigrins, and much more maneuverable. ALL capships could have Shuttles but only Galaxys, and Nebulas could have Perigrin. Remember the Nebulas have the same size Main Hanger as a Galaxy. Only difference are the smaller secondary hangers. (taller but much smaller).

My opinion is that Nebulas should be a support Cap ship. It is older and thus should require no research to acquire. The Akira on the other hand is highly sophisticated, and should need some research.

Also i would LOVE to see the Prometheus Class as a (small) Cap ship. Maybe an end game one that is not available till well into the tech tree.

Check out Prometheus Class from more info, also just do a search for any other ship class. Its interesting to compare the Akira to the nebula or galaxy or sovereign
Reply #127 from Sins Forums Top
Major Stress has said they've picked their lineups based on tech levels, not specific ship roles or sizes. So the argument of classification is irrelevant. Besides, the Defiant is officially an "escort," so what does it matter?

I hope they don't waste a slot on the Prometheus. That POS represents everything that has been wrong with Star Trek for the past ten years. It's a gimmicky, fanboyish, win-button ship (almost literally - all you have to do is say "computer, blow that ship up," and it does) that ignores the idea that Star Trek is and always has been about the people, not the technology by eliminating the need for a crew. I'm convinced it was created by a 12-year-old. "It's got FOUR warp engines, and it can separate into THREE parts, and it has super shields and can blow up everything!" It is the finest example of how Rick Berman and Brannon Braga had no idea what they were doing, and why the franchise is in such dire need of the JJ Abrams reboot.

As far as the Akira, Memory Alpha (the site you link to) says:

...designer Alex Jaeger stated that he created the Akira as a sort of "carrier/gunship," armed with 15 torpedo launchers. Visual inspection of the hull and design drawings show at least 11.

The Galaxy class, by comparison, has three torpedo tubes. I'd say they're in the same capital ship league.
Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #128 from Sins Forums Top
... yeah, so? every one knows the Akira has a crap ton of torpedo tubes. its designed to spray the crap out of a target. That doesn’t speak to its hull integrity or shear size? the reason i say it should be a cruiser is precisely because of the tech tree. It should need to be researched plus its just not the same weight class as the other caps. its got lotsa torpedoes, but only 6 phasor arrays. Compared to the 14 on a dominion wars Galaxy Class or 16 on a Sovereign Class. Even an Old School Ambassador Class had 10 phasor arrays, and the Nebula which many want to be a support cruiser had 8. The Nebula Class also happens to be 442 meters long, while the Akira is only 262 meters with a fraction of the crew. It’s clearly a smaller ship so make it a long range missile cruiser/carrier. We’ve already been told its shuttle bays aren’t big enough, but I say lets fug how big the bay doors are and make it a "Heavy Carrier" in the Cruiser class. Good at long range, ok at short range, plus a fighter complement. Make it so you need to research it, and BAMB, a great ship! Sounds good to me.
Reply #129 from Sins Forums Top
Enough talk of the prospective shiplist please? We have a preliminary listing of what ships we want in the mod, and it is by no way final. Ship roles etc will be determined AFTER we get the ships ingame. No ETA.
Reply #130 from Sins Forums Top
Without the Borg this mod will SUCK !
Reply #131 from Sins Forums Top
Without the Borg this mod will SUCK !


Feel free to make your own with them :P
Reply #132 from Sins Forums Top

Without the Borg this mod will SUCK !


Feel free to make your own with them


You were far, far more reserved then I would have been brother.
Reply #133 from Sins Forums Top
I had been trying thinking up a "federation Planetary Bombardment" ship role. The best idea I had was a "transporter beam" that beamed down security squads to fight in ground combat. For the sound effect, you could hear comm chatter on the battlefield. This way they could only target military installations and it is qute cannon( except the transporter beam being visible)
Reply #134 from Sins Forums Top

I had been trying thinking up a "federation Planetary Bombardment" ship role. The best idea I had was a "transporter beam" that beamed down security squads to fight in ground combat.


This is along the lines of the internal discussions we've been having. Either transporter beams or assault shuttles leave the ships and then instead of nukes on the planet you see webs of phaser fire or something of that nature. It'll probably end up being something like that.

Reply #136 from Sins Forums Top
The cardies, never seemed to have any difficulty with bio-weapons. As for the maquis, as pirates, it sounds great, and as we saw in DS9 they aren't to far above of using Bio- weapons.

The easiest is A wide planetary bombardment with photon/quantum torpedoes. And even perhaps, using an enhanced tractor beam to make the planetary crust unstable, and thereby temporarily destroying infrastructure, and wiping the populace of the face of that specific planet.

Hmm, but has any one thought about the ultimate planetary destruction the Federation came up with; a little certain thing called the "Genesis Device"? It did the job quite well.


Reply #137 from Sins Forums Top
Hello all, I have been reading about this mod and sounds very interesting.

Not sure if anyone has checked it but any of you heard of Dominion Wars? It was a game made sometime ago, anyway they made several new designs for the Dominion, Cardassians, Klingons and Fededration. Here's a link to their website:
http://www.simonsays.com/dominionwars_site/Frameset.htm

My suggestion for a Dominion fleet list are:
Jem'Hadar Fighter
Jem'Hadar Strike Cruiser
Jem'Hadar Battle Cruiser
Jem'Hadar Carrier
Jem'Hadar Warship
Jem'Hadar Super Carrier
Jem'Hadar Dreadnaught

My suggestions for the Cardassian fleet are:
Hideki Assault Fighter
Torin Tactical Cruiser
Tonga Blockade Buster
Galor Cruiser
Keldon Heavy Cruiser
Hutet Dreadnaught

There was an unpublished RPG book that talked about the Dominion War and gave the name for the Breen cruiser a a Gor Taan class vessel. The link seems to be down now though :-/

Also perhaps the use of some of the designs from Startrek Armada 2 might help in filling the ship lists? Just my thoughts, don't need to take them. Hope that helps and wish you the best of luck with your mod.

Oh and if you guys need a new base or anything for developi the game, try sgnonline.com and talk to some of the moderators there. I think they would be more then willing to take on a modding group.
Reply #138 from Sins Forums Top
One idea being kicked around by the SW people is leveling your smaller ships, I think this may be a good idea in this mod as well. Also, are there any thoughts or ideas to give smaller ships special abilities?

Edit: In case it matters, I agree with Defiant being a cruiser, it may be small, but it was the first ship designed by starfleet to be a pure warship and also designed to combat the borg threat. That alone should testify to it's classification.
Reply #139 from Sins Forums Top

One idea being kicked around by the SW people is leveling your smaller ships, I think this may be a good idea in this mod as well.

That's a fantastic idea! You wouldn't even need to have them unlock special abilities as they go, since that would be some excessive micromanagement once you get a ton of ships. They could just level up and get an automatic modifier to their shields and/or weapons. It would be a great way to make players want to keep even the smallest ships alive. On a related note, do we know if it's possible to give all classes of ship names? It would be much more like Trek if even the scout ships had names.

And I know there are no plans to include the Borg, especially as a playable race, but I had an idea that could be used for either a Borg faction or something else, so I'll just throw it out there. Since the Borg are super-powerful, the first ship they'd get would be able to cruise right up to any world and smash it in seconds. So how do you prevent them from doing that without gimping their ships to be on the same level as everyone else's? Well, what about using extreme culture buffs to essentially tether them? Within their culture, which could be spread (very slowly) by Collective nodes, they would be powerful, but outside of it they'd be weakened to the point where a small fleet could take down a cube. Maybe give a 500% buff to regeneration while they're in culture. Their ships could also be supremely expensive, so if you're too aggressive and lose your cube, you're in a lot of trouble. I know it doesn't completely fit in with canon, since the Wolf 359 cube would have been well outside the range of any Collective transmissions, but hey, just an idea.
Reply #141 from Sins Forums Top

any chance of importing some star trek ships to wet the taste bud?


MajorStress is working on that very thing, thou he's out of town on RL work duties for a couple of weeks. Patience. :)
Reply #142 from Sins Forums Top
One thing that would be cool is if all ships were to get at least one special ability. This would obviously be more of a challenge when it comes to the other races, but just like the leveling up it would make individual ships much more valuable.
Reply #143 from Sins Forums Top
wow, some nice pictures already. keep up the good work, I'll be looking forward to this.
Reply #144 from Sins Forums Top
wow, some nice pictures already. keep up the good work, I'll be looking forward to this.


:CONGRAT: That's right, you better be!
Reply #145 from Sins Forums Top
I REALLLY like the idea of leveling up all ships. In my oppinion it should be this way IN game! but since its not id love to see it here.

ALSO ive been going back and brushing up on my DS9 episodes, and i totally take back my thought that the Defiant should be a "Heavy Frigate." after seeing the first episode with the Defiant in it, where they go into the Delta-Quadrant and after already taking damage blow a dominion ship to bits in one volly... yeah thats one badass little ships. Should deffinitly be in the cruiser class. ;-) BUT, is there any way to implement "fighter" like behavior for it. It would be AWSOME to see it flying around making runs on its targets the way a bomber would!
Reply #146 from Sins Forums Top
STAR TREK RULES!!!

As a side note you might want to look at the game Birth of the Federation, GREAT 4x Star Trek Game, yes its old but you could look at the technologies that are used. There is no dominion or breen but the other races that you guys are using are in that game... if ANY 4x Star Trek fans out there have not played Birth of a Federation... you are not a true trekky. I'm excited about the mod, cant wait!
Reply #147 from Sins Forums Top
I REALLLY like the idea of leveling up all ships. In my oppinion it should be this way IN game! but since its not id love to see it here.ALSO ive been going back and brushing up on my DS9 episodes, and i totally take back my thought that the Defiant should be a "Heavy Frigate." after seeing the first episode with the Defiant in it, where they go into the Delta-Quadrant and after already taking damage blow a dominion ship to bits in one volly... yeah thats one badass little ships. Should deffinitly be in the cruiser class. BUT, is there any way to implement "fighter" like behavior for it. It would be AWSOME to see it flying around making runs on its targets the way a bomber would!


It was actually the Gamma Quadrant ;) Delta Quadrant is something we see in Voyager not Deep Space 9.
Reply #148 from Sins Forums Top
BUT, is there any way to implement "fighter" like behavior for it.


Not doable without making it a fighter type (which wouldn't make sense to) :P
Reply #149 from Sins Forums Top
dang, cause it REALLY needs to fly like a fighter. Thats the way it moves. It is not the kind of ship that can fire in any direction. It only has one phasor bank (to my recollection), but those freaking powerful pulse phasors that can only fire forward. No offense annatar, but i do really hope that your wrong. :-( sadness...

Edit: actually it has two phasor banks and 4 pulse phasor cannons
Reply #150 from Sins Forums Top
There's nowhere to mod the behavior of ships, unfortunately. The most logical explanation is that the entity types (and their corresponding behavior) are hardcoded into the engine, so you can't make a "Ship" type move like a Fighter type :(

It would be nice if I was wrong, though, because that would open up quite a lot of options.