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[MOD WIP] Star Trek: Sacrifice of Angels 2 (updated 01/10/09)

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[MOD WIP] Star Trek: Sacrifice of Angels 2 (updated 01/10/09)

from Sins Forums

Featured (by a small mention) in the October edition of PC Gamer magazine

Candidate for Mod Database's 2008 Mod of the Year

This is the OLD "Work in Progress" thread for the Star Trek: Sacrifice of Angels 2 mod.

The new WIP topic is here https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/342747

The "Release" topic can be found here https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/322473


The mod is intended to be a hommage, and tribute to the original Sacrifice of Angels mod for Homeworld. It will use many of the same models, and effects created for that mod by the Trekmods team. Like the original SoA mod SoA2 is set during the Dominion War era of Star Trek. Using both canon, and non-canon units to recreate those battles with Sins "empire building" mechanic added. Like in SoA you can fight battles in SoA2 using hundreds of starships. Sometimes thousands if your computer can handle it ;)

While the mod was not intended as a "Total Conversion". That is exactly what it is winding up being. There is much about the Sins engine, and mechanics that we still need to learn. There are some hard coded stumbling blocks we have to overcome.

The factions will be the Federation, Klingons, Romulan, and the Dominion (with Breen, and Cardassian ally units). The main factions seen in the Dominion War. With a "Surprise" as the Pirate faction.

Factions like the Borg "may" be added in the future. LokiGodofMischief is working on a very good 3rd party Borg add on for SoA 2. It is very possible his add on may be merged with SoA 2 at a much later time.

The current version of SoA 2 is  0.03b   "The Second Dominion War". Look for it here  https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/322473

0.03b only works with Sins versions 1.1, 1.11, and 1.12.

All previous versions of SoA 2 are obsolete, and will not be supported, or hosted anymore. All older version downloads will be removed.

We will NOT port SoA 2 over to Entrenchment until after Entrenchment is out of beta, and released. Along with proper forge tool updates.

I am working on the models mostly ALONE so it may take a while for any new ship model updates.

Darkshimmer is the Balancing guru, Code monkey, and Master at arms. We do have other contributers, and the best 3rd party work from the finest artists in the trek mod community to help make SoA 2 the best it can be.

Status of Demo 0.04  "The actors are in place" 

Will update when i have news.

General Changes:

Manshooters Volumetric Explosions mod will be included as of 0.03a

May include Sins Plus (planets), but ill need to see how much that mod needs changing to incorporate into SoA 2.

SoA 2 0.03 and above is now patch 1.1, and better compatable. Sins patches 1.11, and 1.12 only address balancing, and online exploits, and have no effect on the mod.

Ships will have some anti stike craft weaponry.

Ships are still being added and balanced accordingly.

More re-balancing so that one faction is not overpowered over the other.

The Federation:

Faction is complete. Only structures left

The Klingon Empire

Faction is complete. Only structures left.

The Romulan Star Empire:

Faction is complete. Only structures left

The Dominion:

Faction is complete. Still needs balancing work.

Pirates:

They were going to be the Borg, but that idea failed. So we are looking into Random multirace ship spawns.

Planetary Defenders

Basically "Ships of the week" like the Maquis, Sona, Ferrengi, Tammarian battle cruisers and the like.

Balancing:  Darkshimmer has the Federation, Romulan, and Klingon Empire, and Unified Dominion balanced.

Gameplay: We now have a working Cloaking Device! Check the ModDB page for the WIP video. Cloaking will not be fully implemented in the mod until version 0.04

Art: We are working on an LCARS style UI, adding proper icons, and pictures for all of the new units. The UI is going to take a while to do, because of all of the redundancy of the Sins UI. SoA 2 uses 2 sets of UI textures. Instead of the standard 4 textures for buttons, and 2 textures for icons. SoA 2 uses 8 textures for buttons, and 4 textures for icons which IMO is a major waste of resources, because sins loads all these textures at startup. Unfortunetly i dont see any other way to do it. What is kind of cool is that we dont have to use the same HUD for each faction. It is possible to have unique HUDs, but again the perfomance hit, because of the extra drain on resources could be big, and not worth it.

In Planning: (No promises, or guarentees, but we will try to add these if possible.)

Troop Transport effects.

Planetary invasion animations

Tractor beams. (need a code monkey for this)

Whatever else we can think of and are capable of doing.

Future Updates:

SoA 2 0.04 is now in planning, and will be focused primarily on Proper research trees, Ability's, and adding proper Structures. More than likely demo 0.04 will be the last demo. After that then the full mod should be ready.

SoA 2 0.05 will be the final spit, and polish of the mod. It will focus mainly on re-balancing if needed. Also final artwork changes will be made here. Which will include some ship model re-builds, and re-texturing.

The Full SoA 2 1.0 mod will be released "When it is Finished". We are doing this on our own free time. We aren't getting paid to do this. We have no set schedule. We have no time limit. I want this one to be good. So it wont go online until we feel it is ready.

*NOTE: Much about Sins as we are all now realizing is hardcoded. SoA 2 is going to be far from a perfect "trek" mod due to these hardcoded issues. However we will try to do the best we can with workarounds, and compromises to get it as close as possible. Like i said some things wont be perfect. Some things cannot be done at all. Enjoy the mod for what it is, and try not to be too "nit picky".

SoA2 will be hosted on Mod Database once it is ready http://www.moddb.com/mods/star-trek-sacrifice-of-angels-2

This main header will be updated when i have news to post.





modding
4,107,232 views 1,754 replies
Reply #176 from Sins Forums Top
For the Dominion, you could always just find a planet in Cardassian Space on that map and turn it into Dominion headquarters since the show said that the Dominion basically took over much of Cardassian territory but for game purposes you start at planet X where Dominion headquarters is.
Reply #177 from Sins Forums Top
I cannot wait for it to come into play. It is definitely about time.  Take your timeDoe it RightandMAKE THE DAMN SHIPS RIGHT AND WORK!  


Don't worry, we don't plan on doing a half assed job :)
Offworld Trading Company
Reply #178 from Sins Forums Top
i hope you put in the borg, they could even have their own borg-planet skins

and they certainly have enough types of ships
Reply #179 from Sins Forums Top
Tholians have alot of ship models in both Star Trek Armada 2(theres a faction addition mod on filefront) and on Battleclinic.com
Reply #180 from Sins Forums Top
i hope you put in the borg, they could even have their own borg-planet skinsand they certainly have enough types of ships


*Smacks himself in forhead with wireless keyboard 3 times*

Not to be rude we have discussed the Borg to Delta Quadrant and back (about 2 pages of this thread are in regards to the Borg as pirates or a playable race) and the mod team will not be implementing the Borg for many reasons.

Ok i have a problem i need help with, i want to change the "native species" names to give the illusion of minor races. The native ships in the Badlands are all Maqui or all the planets in the Ferenginar System are all called "Ferangi Alliance" ships instead of the stock names. How do i change the name list and maybe hard lock them to certain planet groups? I know this goes beyond the Forge Tools Beta, thats ok.

I have all the home systems (starting systems) done. The starting systems are the larger systems with 6-8 planets in them (had to cut a couple from our system Saturn, Neptune and Mercury, but used Pluto and our Asteroid Belt) Tried to keep them balanced but different. Remus is next to Romulas, the remains of Praxis are still near Qo'noS (cannon stated they PLANNED an evacuation of Qo'noS after this, but also seeking aid from the Federation. However i found no offical record of the move to a new home planet, only one location of Qo'noS is stated. My idea is this, The movie states a "request for aid due to the possible failure of the planet Qo'noS to support life" so i think that the Feds had the tech and ability to partially "fix" Qo'noS - if they can make Genesis they can do alot in terraforming - so i think in the Kitomar accords part of the deal was for the Feds to "do whatever they could to assist the Klingon situation on Qo'noS" and maybe instead of assisting with an evacuation, partially fixed the problem keeping it class M (maybe barely). There is canon to support this, look at pictures from Qo'noS from ST:E the planet looks nice, and in the TNG the sky is red and polluted.)

I have done the Briar Patch, the Typhon Expance, the Black Cluster, The Badlands, Tonge Break Nebula, the Paulson Nebula, the Hiromi Cluster and the Wormhole (DS9). These are stars surrounded by mostly multiple magnetic clouds, ion storms, debris, and the odd non terran planet. These are ment to be iconic and fun places to have battles. The wormhole is a little different. I want to set it up as a wormhole (maybe one way) that has a 50% chance to go to a worm hole in the Typhon Expance, or a 50% chance the Briar Patch (Worm hole is on the bottom left of the map, the expance the top right (near romulans space) and the briar patch is in the lower right between Qo'noS and Sol. This gives it (and the dominion who start closest to it) an unpredictable tactical advantage (like in the war when they had the station to take out the minefield), this is to balnace out the dominion starting isolated away from colonisable planet heavy systems.

The Map has 25 star systems plus 8 phenomina systems, with an average of 3-6 planet per system. sooo 130-160 "planets". I want to make a big map but one managable in games that ARNT 5v5.
Reply #181 from Sins Forums Top
LOL I'm sorry, but I just don't think we're ever going to hear the end of this BORG issue. For every time someone says "No Borg" we get 10 posts "We need the borg" "Borg rule, please" "This is gonna suck without the borg". How about this....If the borg get added, then Species 8472 and Q are added as well....sounds like a great deal to me....
Reply #182 from Sins Forums Top
Don't forget that if you need a place to try that website I posted, perhaps even put a guideline in the forum saying "We arent having any Borg!!!" :p
Reply #183 from Sins Forums Top
If the borg get added, then Species 8472 and Q are added as well....sounds like a great deal to me....


Hey, Q would be awesome. Instead of actually building ships or anything, you'll just sit there with a few buttons on your UI: "Spawn Armada" "Wipe out all life in the Universe" "Strippers" "Free food"

That's all you'd need! :LOL:
Reply #184 from Sins Forums Top
Looking forward to this mod, should be great.

I won't even mention the B-word

But strippers sound good. As long as they aren't Ferengi strippers :)

The idea of one sector sized star map sounds great too, but I've a feeling its going to cost me a lot of sleep when it comes out (damn you).

In terms of planet invasions rather than bombardment a quick-and-dirty may might be to allow those races who like to invade (Klingons and Dominion I suppose since they like hand-to-hand more than other races) an invasion ship with a weapon which looks like little shuttle/drop ships being fired and does low damage over time coupled with a normal style bombardment weapon might emulate it well. Once the planet is destroyed it auto-colonises to Klingon/Dominion but with a lower initial population than normal to represent the fact its occupied by an invading army rather than colonised in the normal way.

Good luck anyway, been monitoring this thread on a daily basis and just wanted to say how looking forward to it I am :)
Reply #185 from Sins Forums Top
I for one am very excited about the prospect of finally having a Star Trek game that doesn't suck (come on guys, most of the rest was crap, though i myself did enjoy playing starfleet command and modding armada 1 and 2).

On that note i had a thought on how to make the Borg viable candidates without ruining the game balance.
First, (with the exception of constructors and refinery ships) use ONLY cannon ships. This would restrict the Borg to:
Scout Ship (episode with Hugh)
Interceptor (several voyager episodes)
Cruiser (Sphere)
Capital Combat/Assault (Type-4 tactical cube also voyager)
Capital Combat/Colonization (Cube)
Capital Command/Support (Diamond)
with the optional type-2 asymetrical borg vessel (though i personally don't like it).

Give there ships slightly to greatly higher hull points, no shields, and high mitigation...or if that isn't doable, 1/1 shield points, and agian their tech tree would be reaserching shield mitigation boosts.

With only one point of shields, you would always be damaging the borg, but they would still get the adaptability we would expect. Make a borg capital ship extra expensive, and make the smaller ships as expendable as you would expect the borg to think they are. Finally, don't make there first capital ship free, and make the borgs only way of colonizing with a cube. And if their capoital ships still prove to powerful, make them take up double, or even triple command points (out of the capital pool.)
Reply #186 from Sins Forums Top
That still fails to explain *why* the Borg should be included in the Dominion War story :P
Reply #188 from Sins Forums Top
MODDB anyone? can't you fix a page there? WWW LinkIt is a very good community


We have our own internal forums set up, and I don't think there are any plans to expand beyond that for now :P
Reply #189 from Sins Forums Top
That still fails to explain *why* the Borg should be included in the Dominion War story


They can be pirates :p
Reply #190 from Sins Forums Top
TEC = Federation (TEC is obviously the fed choice.)

Vasari = Romulans

Advent = Borg (The advent actually talk and act the pseudo-communism-assimilation thing.)


This kind of fits right out of the box.

Reply #191 from Sins Forums Top
Ok first off let me apologize for bringing the borg issue back up. I posted early in the morning having only looked at the first page of this thread not even realizing how long the issue has been discussed to death. I just had what i thought was a good idea and wanted to share. I personally don't care if they get in, so dev's, if you hate the idea of Borg in your game, OK.

Having said that, to respond to the Annatar11, they don't need a reason to be in the game. They're borg. While you're at it, why do there NEED to be breen AND cardassians, when if you put those two, or even those three (now including the dominion) you would probably fill all the ship slots with only cannon ships. Now, i don't care if you want ot make the breen their own race, they were in fact quite cool and kick ass. I just think that you don't need to justify anthings inclusion when you're the one making the game. As one of the devs said: i'm not going to miss the money you won't pay us for this free mod". And i agree.

I like the borg. I agree that voyager dumbed them down way to much. I don't think that Species 8472 itself was a bad idea, though the writing for that episode ended with so many plot holes as to be confusing (i mean really, why negotiate for safe passage across borg space when you could have them open a transwarp conduit and take you home?)

Some additions WERE welcome though. i.e. the interceptor: since borg space is vast, and cubes are reasorce intensive, it would make sence that the borg would maintain a small force of cubes, and a ginourmous force of smaller ships too patrol the border, only to marshall their cubes where needed when. The fact that voyager could toast an interceptor in a quick firefights is perfectly acceptable too me. The fact that "one" (29th century drone) was unable to modify voyager enough to stand up to a sphere is also ok to me. The fact that one shot from a species 8472 bioship wasted a cube, but that same shot only knocked out the shields of voyager pissed me off. The fact that the borg knew that a 29th century drone existed, and how to make one, and were content not to do everyting in their power to aquire such powerful technology pissed me off.

All of this is tangential to the actuall isue of modding. Which brings me to an interesting thought. Why make only one federation faction. i know you guys are concentrating on getting the models in and everything, but why not make like command and conquer and have variations on a theme. One fed lineup could have some of the newer ships, one of the slightly older, one could have slower more powerful defensive ships, one could have lightning quick shis that fry like potatoes. Why restrict?

Also, if you guys are looking for a good reasorce for relative size and power info, try "ditl.org". Its not the most cannon of sites, but they do list what on-screen vs. backstage vs. sounds good to them. They have a veritable swarm of info in virtually all categories star trek. And before anyone asks, no i don't work for the site or anything else, just stumbled on it a long time ago.

Anyways, good luck to the modders.
Reply #192 from Sins Forums Top
What's wrong with the actual game?

I have no intentions on playing a mod for this game. Maybe when the game is like 3 years old I'll try a mod.
Reply #193 from Sins Forums Top
What's wrong with the actual game?I have no intentions on playing a mod for this game. Maybe when the game is like 3 years old I'll try a mod.


There's nothing wrong with the game :) We're not making the mod because we don't like Sins! Quite the opposite, we're making it because we love it and we want to extend it :P
Reply #194 from Sins Forums Top
Uhm the point was to place the mod during the Dominion War though, last I checked, there were no Borg during the Dominion War. Its better to stick with the races in the war and I don't think there is any point for the Borg to feature without dumbing them down in some manner.
Reply #195 from Sins Forums Top
this would be pretty awesome. As for the Stargate mod, that would be a bit of problem since you don't really have many factions. The only space farring races with attack vessels are the Asgard, Go'uld, and the Wraith. Earth only has a couple ships, and Atlantis has jumpers... You would have to make up a lot in order to make that work in this case. But Star Trek was all about space battles, it should work quite nicely here. I'll be looking forward to this one.
Reply #196 from Sins Forums Top
Personally I don't see why there needs to be a story for this mod. Just add a bunch of cool races that are balanced and fun to play and let us make our own history. It doesn't need to follow actual events. I'm pretty sure that's why there is no campaign in Sins, it just doesn't fit in this kind of game. Each player has their individual experience with it. But I think the more factions the better. It adds diversity and leads to the unexpected.
Reply #197 from Sins Forums Top
Tholians! Please!
Reply #198 from Sins Forums Top
Some additions WERE welcome though. i.e. the interceptor: since borg space is vast, and cubes are reasorce intensive, it would make sence that the borg would maintain a small force of cubes, and a ginourmous force of smaller ships too patrol the border, only to marshall their cubes where needed when. The fact that voyager could toast an interceptor in a quick firefights is perfectly acceptable too me.

To me, that was totally unwelcome and unacceptable. You don't need a bunch of little ships when you have relatively few nearly indestructible ships, and when the only thing you have to protect - assimilated worlds - are perfectly capable of defending themselves simply by adapting to any form of attack and then assimilating the attackers. It's completely antithetical to the entire concept of the Borg to have a small, easily-destroyed ship, since even individual drones can adapt their shielding to make them impervious to any weapon after a couple of attacks.

Why make only one federation faction. i know you guys are concentrating on getting the models in and everything, but why not make like command and conquer and have variations on a theme.

Because it would be several times as much work? Even C&C3 didn't do that at release - they're only adding it in the upcoming expansion. And because there are barely 15 Starfleet ship classes that were in service during the Dominion War, and because six sides is plenty of variation.

Look at it this way: the mod team has decided what they're going to do already. However, if past mods are any indication, when they've finished doing what they want to do, they're unlikely to just stop. The Borg ended up in the original Sacrifice of Angels, and I'd won't be surprised if they show up later on, just because they can.

Tholians! Please!

That, on the other hand, would surprise me.
Reply #199 from Sins Forums Top
Can't wait for this, SoA updated, I remember playing SoA on homeworld longer ago than i care to mention. Now all we need is a The Great Wars converted and I'll be a very happy man ((GW is a B5 mod)if you to young to remember B5 shame on you and buy the DVD's).
Reply #200 from Sins Forums Top
B5 Great series that I wish the best of luck to JMS for starting a new show.