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[MOD WIP] Star Trek: Sacrifice of Angels 2 (updated 01/10/09)

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[MOD WIP] Star Trek: Sacrifice of Angels 2 (updated 01/10/09)

from Sins Forums

Featured (by a small mention) in the October edition of PC Gamer magazine

Candidate for Mod Database's 2008 Mod of the Year

This is the OLD "Work in Progress" thread for the Star Trek: Sacrifice of Angels 2 mod.

The new WIP topic is here https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/342747

The "Release" topic can be found here https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/322473


The mod is intended to be a hommage, and tribute to the original Sacrifice of Angels mod for Homeworld. It will use many of the same models, and effects created for that mod by the Trekmods team. Like the original SoA mod SoA2 is set during the Dominion War era of Star Trek. Using both canon, and non-canon units to recreate those battles with Sins "empire building" mechanic added. Like in SoA you can fight battles in SoA2 using hundreds of starships. Sometimes thousands if your computer can handle it ;)

While the mod was not intended as a "Total Conversion". That is exactly what it is winding up being. There is much about the Sins engine, and mechanics that we still need to learn. There are some hard coded stumbling blocks we have to overcome.

The factions will be the Federation, Klingons, Romulan, and the Dominion (with Breen, and Cardassian ally units). The main factions seen in the Dominion War. With a "Surprise" as the Pirate faction.

Factions like the Borg "may" be added in the future. LokiGodofMischief is working on a very good 3rd party Borg add on for SoA 2. It is very possible his add on may be merged with SoA 2 at a much later time.

The current version of SoA 2 is  0.03b   "The Second Dominion War". Look for it here  https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/322473

0.03b only works with Sins versions 1.1, 1.11, and 1.12.

All previous versions of SoA 2 are obsolete, and will not be supported, or hosted anymore. All older version downloads will be removed.

We will NOT port SoA 2 over to Entrenchment until after Entrenchment is out of beta, and released. Along with proper forge tool updates.

I am working on the models mostly ALONE so it may take a while for any new ship model updates.

Darkshimmer is the Balancing guru, Code monkey, and Master at arms. We do have other contributers, and the best 3rd party work from the finest artists in the trek mod community to help make SoA 2 the best it can be.

Status of Demo 0.04  "The actors are in place" 

Will update when i have news.

General Changes:

Manshooters Volumetric Explosions mod will be included as of 0.03a

May include Sins Plus (planets), but ill need to see how much that mod needs changing to incorporate into SoA 2.

SoA 2 0.03 and above is now patch 1.1, and better compatable. Sins patches 1.11, and 1.12 only address balancing, and online exploits, and have no effect on the mod.

Ships will have some anti stike craft weaponry.

Ships are still being added and balanced accordingly.

More re-balancing so that one faction is not overpowered over the other.

The Federation:

Faction is complete. Only structures left

The Klingon Empire

Faction is complete. Only structures left.

The Romulan Star Empire:

Faction is complete. Only structures left

The Dominion:

Faction is complete. Still needs balancing work.

Pirates:

They were going to be the Borg, but that idea failed. So we are looking into Random multirace ship spawns.

Planetary Defenders

Basically "Ships of the week" like the Maquis, Sona, Ferrengi, Tammarian battle cruisers and the like.

Balancing:  Darkshimmer has the Federation, Romulan, and Klingon Empire, and Unified Dominion balanced.

Gameplay: We now have a working Cloaking Device! Check the ModDB page for the WIP video. Cloaking will not be fully implemented in the mod until version 0.04

Art: We are working on an LCARS style UI, adding proper icons, and pictures for all of the new units. The UI is going to take a while to do, because of all of the redundancy of the Sins UI. SoA 2 uses 2 sets of UI textures. Instead of the standard 4 textures for buttons, and 2 textures for icons. SoA 2 uses 8 textures for buttons, and 4 textures for icons which IMO is a major waste of resources, because sins loads all these textures at startup. Unfortunetly i dont see any other way to do it. What is kind of cool is that we dont have to use the same HUD for each faction. It is possible to have unique HUDs, but again the perfomance hit, because of the extra drain on resources could be big, and not worth it.

In Planning: (No promises, or guarentees, but we will try to add these if possible.)

Troop Transport effects.

Planetary invasion animations

Tractor beams. (need a code monkey for this)

Whatever else we can think of and are capable of doing.

Future Updates:

SoA 2 0.04 is now in planning, and will be focused primarily on Proper research trees, Ability's, and adding proper Structures. More than likely demo 0.04 will be the last demo. After that then the full mod should be ready.

SoA 2 0.05 will be the final spit, and polish of the mod. It will focus mainly on re-balancing if needed. Also final artwork changes will be made here. Which will include some ship model re-builds, and re-texturing.

The Full SoA 2 1.0 mod will be released "When it is Finished". We are doing this on our own free time. We aren't getting paid to do this. We have no set schedule. We have no time limit. I want this one to be good. So it wont go online until we feel it is ready.

*NOTE: Much about Sins as we are all now realizing is hardcoded. SoA 2 is going to be far from a perfect "trek" mod due to these hardcoded issues. However we will try to do the best we can with workarounds, and compromises to get it as close as possible. Like i said some things wont be perfect. Some things cannot be done at all. Enjoy the mod for what it is, and try not to be too "nit picky".

SoA2 will be hosted on Mod Database once it is ready http://www.moddb.com/mods/star-trek-sacrifice-of-angels-2

This main header will be updated when i have news to post.





modding
4,105,457 views 1,754 replies
Reply #76 from Sins Forums Top
Well done Thomas! Well done! :D start sending me the 5 view's so i can mesh this stuff.

My original nick was The Stress Puppy.. Ive been "promoted" :p

The mods name is staying as it is. Wonder if Bruce Willis is interested in voice acting? The mods name fits the dark "total war" atmosphere of the dominion invasion.

The mod will not have a single D-7 cruiser in it.... However it will have lots of K'T'Inga's (,and Vorchas, and Negh'Nars) :p

Sovereign is the battleship, Galaxy is the carrier (only ship with hanger big enough for peregrines), Akira, Nebula, and Ambassador are support cap ships. This does not mean they will duplicate the same roles as the sins stock ships. They are just filling the ship slots.

Defiant is going in the heavy cruiser (kodiak) slot. Intrepid is going in a support cruiser slot. The rest will be announced AFTER we get the ships in game. We thought over very carefully what ships should go in what slots despite the "roles" being irrelevant. We chose slots more for research dependency. It may be possible that you wont be able to build a Sovereign, or Defiant until you have Ablative Armour, and Quantum Torpedoes researched. We chose the Miranda as the light carrier. Before you go into an uproar consider this... The Miranda has a huge hanger bay for a ship its size. You may think why should i research a 100 year old ship? the answer is you aren't researching the ship. You are researching the ability of the ship to support a wing of 3 Peregrines. The Miranda may stay. It may not. You wont know 'till we release it ;)

I must go travel for a real job tomorrow for 2 weeks. Any questions during that time will be answered by Thomas Marrone, Darkshimmer, Vorlon, Darkthunder, Annatar, and Dasher42.

Tom ill let you be the judge of the music.

Ill be back 2 weeks, then we will get this thing going.

Reply #77 from Sins Forums Top
Instead of siege shooting missles, change the models and descriptions around and you can have troop transports shooting landing pods


With damage over time bombardment options this seems doable since you would not want to land as many shuttles as you see missiles coming from bombing runs.
Star Control: Origins
Reply #78 from Sins Forums Top
why not use the Borg as Pirates?
Seems to me like the perfect solution. Both are "raiding" factions and u wouldnt need to make the Borgs weak.
Reply #79 from Sins Forums Top

why not use the Borg as Pirates?
Seems to me like the perfect solution. Both are "raiding" factions and u wouldnt need to make the Borgs weak.


There will be no Borg in the mod. At least for now. There is no way currently to include the Borg that will balance them for the other races, or without making them look stupid like they did in Voyager.


I am really looking forward to this - the models are great, it'll take a while to get all those lights skinned again though (I assume the data channel is different from BC)

What kind of gameplay changes lie ahead? I assume you'll make some sort of wormhole based maps and gameplay if it's the Dominion War, as well as overhauling weapons (phaser/proton/quantum or phaser/pulse/quantum for Fed, for example).

This does not mean they will duplicate the same roles as the sins stock ships


Very happy about this as well. Be creative, guys! There's a lot that could be done with ship roles even though that wasn't really a big part of DS9.
Reply #80 from Sins Forums Top
Grrrrr...Makes me angry that no one is creating a stargate mod   


lol
nice way to show your thanks
these guys put "all of there spare time in making the mod and ure asking why nobody makes a stargate mod...... why dont start with a starwars mod either -.-.... a
Reply #81 from Sins Forums Top
This is going to be an amazing mod! The addition of Trek themed music would make for total imersion in the Trek universe. The DS9 theme song is incredibly moving and would make a great background to play in peaceful/prosperous times. Voyager's theme would make a great backdrop to exploration.

Empyrean45, I downloaded your samples and I believe you have the talent to pull off the creation of a great Trek soundtrack. Thanks for volunteering.

Good luck to you all. Boy, this mod is going to me great.
Reply #82 from Sins Forums Top
Here's a nice song that might be cool adding somewhere to the mod (straight from the Kobayashi Maru mod for Bridge Commander):

Download

This next one Stress might not care much for thou :D

Download
Reply #83 from Sins Forums Top
grr i shouldnt have gone to sleep :)

I found a federation ship (official cannon) that is classified a carrier! (Called a "Thru-Deck Carrier Class") True you dont need to follow the role slots, however i do think you need a carrier cap, or atleast try for it when you can. Other than the feds-maqui who uses fighters anyways?
The USS Shelly from DS9 Episode "A Time to Stand" (I think the first large Dominion War battle with many fighters shown.) Here is the pic if someone whats to take inspiration from it. Mighty be a possible replacement for the aging Miranda.


Would it be ok with you guys if i do some "research" for the other races? You guys obviously know what you want to do with the Federation and have most of it in place. I like playing as the Rommies (Other than the Scimatar and an Advanced Warbird what other capitol ships would take up slots?) and i wouldnt mind figuring out a few options for the ship slots of some of the more obscure races.

I was curious what your ideas where for the special ship abilities. I think their nessicary as their really your only of doing anything as a player in a battle in Sins. Maybe just move the current ones around with renaming? I think it could be really good to see all the abilties renamed and on different ship slots giving rise to new combinations and new tactics.

So if i rememeber the race list is
Federation
Klingons
Romulans
Dominion
Cardassians
Breen

I see the bottom 2 as the most challenging. I got two days off, do you guys want me to look up stuff on them? The Breen i dont know if it can be done totally cannon as i think only 3-4 of their ship types where ever shown but i will see what i can dig up. I can include pictures for inspiration, and Bibliography of where i got it from and in what episode or movie it appeared in (Cannon).
Reply #84 from Sins Forums Top
oh just notice talk about borg avbove in one of the post, simply and totally agree...borg in ST are OLD race, like firstones are in B5-i think they can be compared. While other races have been in space for only few hundred years some like Vulcans about 2 thousand, they i rember have been mentioned to have been around or have originated for about 1 million.

Only way Borg can be introduced is as an event(worlds have been destroyed, borg appears, just like mongols in medieval 2 TW) or mission, single borg cube or smaller orb, other races could have ceasefire or something scripted to counter together this threat, whoever destroys it gets boost to tech, credits you name it. Its just an idea and something to think of later...

Anyway, thank you guys for starting this mod, good luck and expect me to spam spam long time :)
Reply #85 from Sins Forums Top

Sovereign is the battleship, Galaxy is the carrier (only ship with hanger big enough for peregrines), Akira, Nebula, and Ambassador are support cap ships.

Isn't the Nebula a better choice for a carrier than the Galaxy? I'd always seen it as the support version of the Galaxy, and you could even do a new hangar pod for the Nebula that would make it an even better fit. It's got that whole modular setup that make it ideal for strapping that kind of thing on.


We chose the Miranda as the light carrier. Before you go into an uproar consider this... The Miranda has a huge hanger bay for a ship its size. You may think why should i research a 100 year old ship? the answer is you aren't researching the ship. You are researching the ability of the ship to support a wing of 3 Peregrines. The Miranda may stay. It may not. You wont know 'till we release it

Interesting choice, and an excellent observation - I hadn't considered the enormous shuttlebay doors on the back of the Miranda. However, given the Miranda's role in the Dominion War battles, where there were a ton of them getting blown away right and left, I envisioned them more as light, disposable frigates. If they're housing my fighters, I'm going to want to keep them back and out of the action as much as possible, which will make recreating battles like the one in Sacrifice of Angels seem a bit on the wonky side.

I'd suggest eliminating the role of a light carrier completely. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I've never seen fighters as a big part of Starfleet. The fact that we never saw them use strike craft at all until the Dominion War made it seem like almost a desperation tactic to put them in the field, and certainly not something seen in normal combat operations - no Enterprise has ever carried them. Putting them exclusively on a specialized Nebula, which would be a mid/high-level research unlock, would limit them to the kind of large engagements seen in SoA. I just don't want to see Trek combat, which has always been about large starships duking it out, turn into a fray of dogfighting fighters. That's so Star Wars.

I know the Fed lineup has already been decided, but I'm just going to post my ideal roster just as a fun exercise in wishful thinking:
Frigates: Miranda, Intrepid, Nova, Saber, Centaur
Cruisers: Excelsior (Lakota refit), Defiant, Norway, Olympic, Steamrunner
Capitals: Galaxy, Nebula, Sovereign, Akira, Ambassador
Reply #86 from Sins Forums Top
Well since I got no reply to a PM, I'll dish out my ideas for all to ridicule.

Ever since I started playing this game, it reminded me of ST. I think the dominion war is a perfect setting for this kind of mod, and the best thing is most the mechanics are already there. Ill break this up into smaller posts, cause theres alot of it so bear with me.

Ill start with the United Federation of Planets who I believe should replace the TEC as the both rely more on a powerful trade base over brute force.

We'll start with frigates. I'll throw in some powers I've come up with later.

Scout ==> Danube Class (runabout)

Why?...This little ship featured prominently in DS9 where it was seen a multi-role ship. Recon seems a natural extension for it.

Pros - It is a proven design, and established in the ST universe.

Cons - Technically, this is a very large shuttle and may not be suitable. Also, there may be model problems due to its size.

Light Combat ==> Norway Class

Why?...A small design, it is one of the smallest fighting ships in the federation, and the closest to a light frigate I can find.

Pros - Although it is a cannon ship, not much is established about its ability, allowing it to be molded to fit its role in the mod.

Cons - None offhand

Long Range Attack ==> Steamrunner Class

Why?...This is the one choice I don't feel great about. The steamrunner is a powerful ship, and probably deserves to be a little higher up the food chain, but no other ship can cover this role as well as this one IMHO

Pros - Other games have used the steamrunner for a long-range type ship

Cons - It deserves to be a cruiser.

Flak Frigate ==> Sabre Class

Why?...A poorly armed ship, this is likely the best role it can be used for. Some what like the Advent Flak Frigate.

Pros - Give a pitiful ship a purpose...

Cons - None Offhand.

Colonization ==> Miranda Transport

Why?...The Miranda, though old, is a workhorse of the federation used for many different purposes, including the transport of colonists.

Pros - A little variety in ships makes for a nice look.

Cons - None Offhand.

Planetary Bombardment ........No comment
Reply #87 from Sins Forums Top

Flak Frigate ==> Sabre Class


There really doesn't need to be a "flak frigate", really, I think it'd be better to let the Sabre be a scout and remove that role entirely.
Reply #88 from Sins Forums Top
Pt.2

Federation Cruisers

Carrier ==> Nebula Carrier Variant

Why?...I can hear your cries of protest you know....anyway, The nebula class produced many variations, including a carrier version. There are only two carriers I found and the other with I will cover in a moment.

Pros - Any dominion war ST mod must have a nebula....or....I'll get really, really mad. And you don't want that.

Cons - The nebula really deserves to be in the capital class of ships

Support ==> Intrepid Class

Why?...I thought the intrepid didn't come out till after the war, but I found differently. They have become somewhat iconic for ST.

Pros - Good support craft

Cons - None Offhand.

Support ==> Excelsior Class

Why?...Though aging (but not as old as the Miranda) The excelsior class is still a vital part of the federations fleet.

Pros - Classic ship and a solid addition

Cons - None Offhand.

Heavy Combat ==> Defiant Class

Why?...Though small its power definetly puts this in a class of heavyweights. Plus its the DEFIANT!!!!!

Pros - Iconic ship, federations pure warship design.

Cons - None Offhand.
Reply #89 from Sins Forums Top


Flak Frigate ==> Sabre Class


There really doesn't need to be a "flak frigate", really, I think it'd be better to let the Sabre be a scout and remove that role entirely.


Quite Possible. I am trying to stay as close to Sins as possible, but that is a fine idea.
Reply #90 from Sins Forums Top
Pt.3

Federation Capital Ships.

Combat ==> New Orleans Class

Why?...Ive no doubt this will be a controversial choice. I do not think the Sovereign Class should be included, despite the fact I think its a great ship. It did not play a part in the dominion war. I think other ships deserve some attention like the powerful New Orleans Class.

Pros - The most powerful ship no one seems to know.

Cons - Not the Sovereign

Carrier ==> Akira Class

Why?...This is the only other carrier federation ship. This was one of its main purposes. And its an imposing ship when you start down 15 Photon tubes.

Pros - The only other federation carrier.

Cons - Has lots of firepower too.

Support/Colonization ==> Galaxy Class

Why?...Its massive crew capacity makes this a sure thing to me. It is very multi-purpose and would make a great support ship.

Pros - Massive size. Icon ship.

Cons - Powerful, and usually seen as a combat vessel (which its not)

Long Range/ Planetary Bombardment ==> Achilles Class

Why?...Dedicated long range firepower ship.

Pros - Made for the role.

Cons - None Offhand.

Support ==> Yet to be determined.
Reply #91 from Sins Forums Top




Sovereign is the battleship, Galaxy is the carrier (only ship with hanger big enough for peregrines), Akira, Nebula, and Ambassador are support cap ships. This does not mean they will duplicate the same roles as the sins stock ships. They are just filling the ship slots.






Id have the galaxy as support cap with colonize ability and Akira as the carrier quote from the desiegner of the akira Alex Jeager "This was my gunship/battlecruiser/aircraft carrier. It has 15 torpedo launchers and two shuttlebays - one in front, with three doors, and one in the back. I really got into it with this one, with the whole idea that the front bay would be the launching bay, and then to return they'd come into the back, because they'd be protected by the rest of the ship."

The Ambassador wasnt in service by the dommionion war was it? Why not use the excellsior which was still in service.

Reply #92 from Sins Forums Top
just need the borg, with many nano tech regens and shield changing and tractor beams, they can also assimilate enemy vessels, theres already such an ability.
Reply #93 from Sins Forums Top
Ok well i see your exersise in wishful thinking and add in my own. I agree with most of what you put, with a few changes.

Capitol:
Galaxy
Excelsior
Sovriegn
Akira
Prometheus

Cruisers:
Nebula (Galaxy's lil sister)
Intrepid
Defiant
Constillation OR Ambassador (Ambassador is newer, however Constillation has the 4 necels for a different ship look)

Frigates:
Soyuz (Miltary version of the Miranda OLD but big compared to the rest of the frigates)
Nova
Sabre
Raven (The Ship 7of9's parents traveled in) - Scout

Civialian.
Trade Ship - J-Type Transport (Transports from ST:Enterprise)
Planetary Constructor - Oberth (Why? Cuz i like this class and it has to be somewhere)
Refinary Ship - Olympic Class (The medical ship from TNG finaly)
Reply #94 from Sins Forums Top





Sovereign is the battleship, Galaxy is the carrier (only ship with hanger big enough for peregrines), Akira, Nebula, and Ambassador are support cap ships. This does not mean they will duplicate the same roles as the sins stock ships. They are just filling the ship slots.






Id have the galaxy as support cap with colonize ability and Akira as the carrier quote from the desiegner of the akira Alex Jeager "This was my gunship/battlecruiser/aircraft carrier. It has 15 torpedo launchers and two shuttlebays - one in front, with three doors, and one in the back. I really got into it with this one, with the whole idea that the front bay would be the launching bay, and then to return they'd come into the back, because they'd be protected by the rest of the ship."

The Ambassador wasnt in service by the dommionion war was it? Why not use the excellsior which was still in service.




Lol Totally got there first!
Reply #95 from Sins Forums Top
By the way nice post Iathorien but clarify a few things for me....

I've made my point on the Sovereign, but Why the Prometheus, that is not even close to the dominion war.

I'm all for bumping the excelsior to capital and using the ambassador in the Cruiser slot. Good call.
Reply #96 from Sins Forums Top
I agree, the Galaxy should hae colonise (all those TNG episodes with the poor refugies, or settlers, or "indiginous life in danger" they moved alot of people)
and the Akira should be take the role of carrier, the mainstay of its attack could still be the ship just supported with 2-4 wings. Of all the Cannon only two ships listed carier capability, the Akira and the Shelly.
Reply #97 from Sins Forums Top
I can't wait for this mod. After the movie comes out we can get more of an imagine of that time period and borders to work with. Stargate would be an interesting idea as would farscape but is quickly overshadowed by the thought of dropping bombs on the founder's pool.
Reply #98 from Sins Forums Top
OK here is the Promethous explanation (i knew i was going to have to)
In the prometheous episode, it is under attack by the Romulans, who as the EMH II put it "Havent joined the Dominon War yet..." "WHAT WAR?!?!" ECT.... which means it was completed During the War, Just befour the Romulans joined... I imagine starfleet atleast had the concept (if not plans) on the table at the onset of the war. It would be cutting it close time wise but i think it works. If needed the could have pushed the ship out for the end of the war (or if the war went longer). Also the Sovriegn was the first of "Borg invasion" influenced ships to be constructed and i have read it was in the War.

http://www.st-intelligence.com/ship_database/dom/sov.php

P.S I forgot to include the Steamrunner!! Should be a cruiser i think. If the Defiant can be a cruiser (if not cap) then so can the steamrunner.
Reply #99 from Sins Forums Top
also if the Feds dont have the Sovriegn, then the Rommies dont get the Veldorn OR the Scimatar and are left what the BOP?? We need to be a little loose with time. Most of the "fleshing out" wasent done befour the war, and ther will be more to this mod than just the Federation.
Reply #100 from Sins Forums Top
Well I checked the link, and I have gone there before, aside from their blurb I have never heard of the Sovereign participating in the Dominion War.

The Prometheus was in test bed during the war but never used in it.

I agree the steamrunner should be higher up. But no other ship I know of would be sufficent