God gave us thought

It is said that God made us in his image so i guess there is alot of potential for us to be greater than what we are now, to what extent i do not know? Read the story of the tower of Babel in the bible for a clue.... Apparantly God caused everyone to speak different languages otherwise there would have been no limit to human development?

Anyway, if you wan't to know if God has limited our development or plays tricks, then first you have to ask to what purpose did God create us?

Do a little research and you will see that all religion is simply based on differennt astronomical configurations. for example on december 25th the north star and (the three kings) which is a set of three stars! all line up in the sky and point to where the sun rises . there is a point where the sun stops rising in a location east of the previous day and seems to rise in the same spot for three days. which is where the ressurection comes from after three days .almost every religion has the same basic setup. same story and same principle . It is nothing more than a convenient way to track the seasons. and the 12 apostles represent the 12 signs of the zodiac and so on and so on. better yet why not just watch this informitive video and learn something for yourself. http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-8461754114455236037&hl=en

ahem, well as interesting as that may be, you might wan't to do a little research yourself before being quite so bold as to use the term 'all' religion. I mean how do you know i didn't personally invent a religion yesterday that dousn't involve astronomy? well, you did say 'all' religion right? so unless you are an all seeing powerful God, i suggest you can take that word 'all' under your arm and skulk off in shame.

Yes, if you play as the terrans and research a tech victory.  



thats where the universal translator comes into play.

Anyway, maybe god spoiled us and we think we are already perfect?

Like those parents across the street who spoil their kid senseless, and as a result, they think he's perfect, and so does the kid, its just everyone else who doesn't.

Many eons ago, ancient people created these things as a way of explaining things, like why the sun rises and why clouds don't crash down to earth, flat earth in their day. A religion is a way of explaining things. But, people never moved away from religion, we now know that the sun rises because earth spins around on an axis of 14 degrees (at least I think its 14) which also creates seasons as earth orbits the sun.

As religions theories were proven wrong, it basicly simplifies itself to the only thing scientists couldn't prove wrong, gods/god, but that no-one could really prove right either.

So, I don't really know, I'm just going to live my life regardless of religion.

maybe as a test. so the next race of beings he creates (the drengin) will turn out better.

Oh well.

(Couldn't edit the other one and still put the quote in so I had to post two replies)

If the conditions are right, yes. We would effectively become gods. Atleast thats what I believe. After all, knowledge is power.

I say effectively, because you would need to know what a "god" is to be certain.



Possibly. Humanity is seriously flawed species. Although we humans posses many strengths we also posses many flaws. One of the worst examples is this.

Shoppers stepping over dying woman; one took a photo.

We are capable of extreme levels of apathy. Sadly we are also capable of valuing our pleasures (even minor ones) over the suffering of others.

Another problem is how easily people are influenced to bad things, and how quickly most people will "stop" thinking once they have "any" answer, even a bad one. When people are uncertain, they tend to look around for answers, and sadly, the publicity of the example I presented can serve as "any" answer. This ofcourse will likely increase the odds of said behaviour repeating.

Ofcourse to counter it, recommend that if you are uncertain in the said situation, is that you ask the woman if she needs help. If she is unable to respond, assume she needs help, and call for help using the 3 magical numbers.

________________
I'll comment more latter.

I will try and answer in my own inadequate way using Bible scripture as my guide. I'm going to treat your post as a serious question for now. If I'm only feeding the trolls, then I expect I'll not be back.



Well, lose the captial G and then you are on to something.
Jesus quoted the psalms when he said in John 10:34 "Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'"
Looking at the context of John 10, and then reading Psalm 82 which Jesus quoted, leads me to believe that God created us with great capability. Our sin and subsequent separation from God has placed us in a greatly lowered estate than what is eventually planned for us.

But, will we become omniscient? Will we become like God with infinite awareness, understanding, and insight?

1 Corintians 139-12
9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

Looks to me like we have a good chance, if you look at only the passage above. But you have to consider other passages as well.

Isaiah 55:8-10 (New International Version)
8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,"
declares the LORD.

9 "As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

This would imply that we can never hope to equal God's knowledge. While I personally believe this to be the case, others might argue that God is speaking to us in our current, lowered estate only, and not speaking to how we will become after the resurrection. I am not able to dispute that with my limited knowledge. I'm not a Bible scholar.


So far as I am concerned, it is true. God does not play jokes on his creation so far as I know; but my knowledge is currently imperfect, as the passage above states.


Being separated from God does limit us in this world; but when we are again united with Him, I do not believe there will be a limit placed upon us.


No.


One of the biggest mistakes that atheists make, and I know because I used to be one myself, is this applying human fallacies to a perfect being. Like the constant question of "If God is omnipotent and can do anything, can God make a rock so big that even He can't lift it?" It's a nonsensical question. God is defined as being supernatural, that is "of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe". He is beyond the normal space/time continuum that we are able to observe and manipulate. I really doubt he needs a vacation.


I, on the other hand, am made of flesh and most assuredly fallible, so please don't anyone start in on my mistakes. I'm sure I've made plenty. What I've offered is what I believe God's Word has given us that answers your questions.

hmmm, this is a very decates-equse question, Marcus.

i think WhoStoleMyNickName covered all of teh basic points. I do have on ething to add however...



Recorded human history has a very patterned look, consisteing of cycles of civilization. Take for example, the Pantheon. It was built around 125 AD, and we (modern civ) were unable to build anything that compared to it until 1436 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheon%2C_Rome). In reality, modern unreinforced conrete technology still isn't good enough for a builder to attempt something in the proportions of the Pantheon and be confident in thier work. Why? Well, when Rome fell, it's knowledge (and the intellecualism that went with it) was also destroyed.

The point that I am trying to make is that as civilizations die (or shrink), thier collective knowledge and abilites are lost as well. Can we build bigger and better things than the Pantheon? Of course, we can mass produce steel (a modern acheivement), but it took us the better part of almost 2000 years (all steel building were a thing of the industrial revolution) to do it too. If a great tragedy were to befall our civilization, how long do you think it would take till the next civ developes the computer or concrete?

You logic got totally lost there - if what I'm reading about quantum physics is correct, there are potentially unknowable things - for example the exact position and velocity of a particle at a point in time.



I seriously doubt it. There's no indication that we have the resources to ever accomplish anything close to this - and no indication that Earth will exist long enough to come anywhere near that point.



If I recall the beliefs of my religion correctly, man placed those limits on himself.



Nope. Man, however, is full of them.

Frankly, your poetry really isn't that good, and your thoughts reflect only a broad "shotgun" approach to religion that ignores the fact that different religions have different beliefs. Your poetry is anything but deep.

It is possible to obtain immortality from our current state of mortality.
I bieleive that Jesus life was a public demonstration of one who had finally through many lives finally gotten back to the perfect state he had before the fall.I'm aware this isn't current Christian thinking.
The importance of though is demonstrated between the old testament and the new.In the old, adultery was a sin.In the new testament even thinking about it was a sin,showing the importance of guarding the mind from impure thoughts.From thoughts come desire,from desire is what you manifest in the physical world.
This means also we were created in God's image,ergo we have an emotional body,mental body,memory body and a physical body.We create on a smaller scale like God creates.It also means that we have a way back from our lower estate to the higher by correctly using these four bodies.

I have written myself in your inward parts and let that mind be in you which was in Christ Jesus are admonishments and a promise that you can use the vehicle of thought to advance spiritually.

Here we go again....

You are correct that this is not a Christian teaching, and for a good reason: The Bible does not teach it.

The idea is that all have sinned, and that it is not possible to overcome this in this world by our own works. (Romans 3-4)

I also find the idea of repeated reincarnation absent from biblical teachings - nowhere can I find the idea that Jesus (or anybody else) had gone through "many lives." Indeed, Jesus discarded that idea when he asked his disciples "Who do people say the son of man is?" (Matthew 16:13-20) Some people thought Jesus was somebody else reincarnated - but Jesus confirmed none of them, strongly implying that he was not another person reincarnated. He claims to be God reincarnated, not somebody else. (John 1:1-14)

In addition, there is no mention that reincarnation is a common event - indeed, when it does occasionally happen, it's an act of God and a miracle. It's an exception to the rule.

Indeed, you are correct that we were originally made in God's image. A good interpretation is hard to get, but it seems to tie in a lot with the concept of sin - God is sinless, and so was man - that seems to be what is meant by his image (Colossians 3:10). Unfortunately, man seems to have fallen from that state. I do not see the "four bodies" concept in my biblical readings.

Quite frankly, if Jesus is some being that's been reincarnated a bunch of times trying to become perfect, he's either a liar or a lunatic. Because he claims otherwise in the Bible.

this is a slight misunderstanding. Christ is the god of the old testiment. but he is not GOD.

When ever Christ refers to GOD, he always says god my father. A person would never refer to himself as his own father. Christ's main mission was not the forgiveness of your sins. It was the removal of the sin of the fall of adam and eve.



no he has put limits on our understanding




is not the day christ was born on





one christian faith teaches this the latter day saints


remember if adam and eve had not fallen they would not have been able to have children.

Amen brother   

Nice, subtle irony. I have to bow to you, sir.

(It was an inside-reference to another god thread that I put my thoughts about god threads into. I think it was the Heaven and Hell one)

(Maybe I'll stick around and see how this thread pans out.....I'll be watching  )

*Sigh*

If this post becomes nothing more than a contest of trying to show whos memory is best, then I'm leaving. For those who are not thinking, please try to think. Its not any fun to read stuff that isn't original. I do think that debating this subject was the objective of this post.



Although most people seem to be so interested in talking about God, lets put it aside for a moment. To what limit of knowledge could an atheist phenomina possibly have?

If we take what we know about science, our capacity for knowledge would clearly be finite. Our nervious system has a finite volume and complexity, which limits how much information it could hold at any given time. Add in the fact that things tend to change over time, and you can clearly see that our minds, as is, not up to the task of storing a theoretically infinite amount of information. Even if someone were to "comsume" the universe to increase their capacity to store information, they would fail to know everything.

________________
So, am I right, or did I miss something? If I did miss something, could you explain?

memory is the number of connections between brain cells

the more connections the better the memory

as far as i know there is an infinite number of connections available

The anwser is in plain site because God already gaved us a limit, we are not immortal. And for those of you who say that one day we will uncover a pill or a technology that will make us immortal? it's hard to believe for someone exisiting for millenias. Life is very unexpected and there is bound to be something that will kill you eventually. So immortality might be possible in a biological sense and to a certain degree but I can't imagine someone living for a million years ????

*Sigh* right back at you, sir.

The OP asked a question of God. I gave him God's Word.

The last refuge of the unbeliever, claiming those who know and attempt to live God's Word are unthinking, uneducated rubes without a thought in their head. Very well, you merely validate it by saying it.



I've gone through the public, secondary schools and put myself through college. I've read Josephus, Sagen, Heinlein, Herbert, Asimov, and Tolkien. I've taken and understand subjects such as chemistry, calculus, astronomy, and computer science. I've raised two children to adulthood while consulting Fortune 500 businesses regarding their computer networks, and now maintain and administer an email system for a government agency consisting of over 40,000 users. I can wire a house, change the brakes on a car, fix faulty plumbing, lay hardwood floors, dress a fish, skin a squirel, hit a target the size of a man's head at 100 yards, cook a fine meal for others, and play a decent game of GalCiv.

At what point, sir, am I unthinking?

It is fine to disagree with me. Just be careful you don't insult me.

here is proof of god

water, salt and ice

Your conclusion that we are finite comes from the observation of your senses and the information gathered from the senses of others.Your senses alone cannot penetrate beyond a certain frequency themselves being limited.If God exists he is omnicient,omnipresent and for all intent and purposes infinite by his very nature.Having a soul raises all sorts of other possibilites.Since a soul gives you the ability to feel God to know God and to desire to return to God,else you would have no desire to do so if you had no memory of what it was like to be one with God in the first place.
The soul reflects the nature of the infinite God.Are we both spirit and matter or just matter?If we are the former then the posibility always exist that we can expand our capacity to store,gather,and to use the information
we collect in greater and greate amounts in order to fullfill our purposes for existing.If we are just matter then we are limited by our biology sans a few chips embedded in our skulls.
Out of the mercy of God we have been limited to the amount of damage we can do to this place,unfortunately that means that a lot capacities we could have will be limited until we can prove that our actions come from love and love alone.

As for the other thing,lets dispel the notion that the Bible contains everything Jesus did and said and bielieved.Not possible.But there are things that don't make sense without reincarnation such as, Jesus cures the man of blindness.His disciples ask Him,Master who sinned that this man was born blind,him or his parents?
Now unless your going to try to prove that you can commit a sin in the womb where you cannot exercise free will and cannot act, why would the question come up?It would be obvious whos sin it was unless the disciples bieleved in reincarnation and they were asking was it a sin in this life or another?
And of course in the current Bible the question of reincarnation is mysteriously absent for such an important subject.The writings of Origin of Alexandria whichtalked of reincarnation were removed from the Bible.

Yup.

Agreed...

It would appear that we caught a huge catch of evangelists. Its very difficult to have a discussion with those who are certain that they are right. There is a significant difference between "I think something is so because..." and "I'm right, and you're wrong if you disagree...". The difference being that one is willing to discuse a subject, and the other is not.

water=hydrogen and oxygen=rocket fuel

salt=sodium and chloride=sodium explodes in water. chloride is a poison.


ice is the only solid that floats in its own liquid form. IE water freezes top to bottom leaving room at bottom for life to live most of the time.