Island Dog Island Dog

Are people happy to lose a war?

Are people happy to lose a war?

I have found it very disturbing of certain people, including the ones just elected to power who seem content and even happy about the possibility of losing in Iraq and the entire war on terror. Many of these same people, including ones here, have already declared we have lost, and seem to do it with a bit of joy. You don't have to agree with war, but why would you want and even encourage your own country to lose?

People forget that back when our troops were pulled out after the Blackhawk down incident, it emboldened bin laden and showed our weakness to islamic terrorists all over the world. They feed on weakness and it gave them a clear path to attack us over and over knowing that we wouldn't respond. The same thing would happen again if we leave Iraq right now.

We should not make that same mistake again. 

32,655 views 166 replies
Reply #26 Top
SilentPoet:
I'm proud of our troops, I'm proud of my family, and ancestors who have served in the military.


Then why do you support the Congressional betrayal of them... is EXACTLY what pulling out before victory is. Congress betrayed our troops in Vietnam... sadly, now there are Vietnam vets in congress just itching for their turn to do some betraying of their own.

The enemy knows one thing full well, and that is, "You don't defeat the U.S. military on the battlefield, you defeat them on the floor of the House and Senate." There are too many in Congress (and in America) who are willing to help the terrorists attain their goal.
Reply #27 Top
The main problem with the war in Iraq, to me, is that in the last 50 years or so, we've been made to forget what it takes to win a war. We've been talked into being happy with stalemates and even outright defeat. We're America; a great, strong, noble and beneficient nation whose enemies should nonetheless tremble before our terrible might. But no....we're America. We should be big enough to be willing to lose, and gracefully, at that.
When did this happen? When we started listening to the UN. I've heard it said that the UN doesn't prevent war, it just prevents war from working....especially when the US is one of the combatants.

The Democrats, especially those in power now, will be more than happy to see us lose the war. Billary, Bela Pelosi, Dick Turban, John Conned-yers, (sorry, the funny nicknames stop here) John Kerry, Jack Murtha....they'll all be more than happy to see us lose.
This is because, as former 60s and 70s radicals, they hate the idea of a strong, successful, unified America. They'll do whatever it takes to undermine any effort that keeps us in the running.
Never before has this country faced a greater threat from the Left than it does now; never before have we been governed by minds that seek to dismantle that over which they preside, in order to rebuild it in their own image.

They want us to lose; it'll result in a real, true lack of intern ational prestige, not just the supposed one they always refer to. They want the America of Vietnam back, because they won that war by making America lose by default.
Our troops won on the battlefield, but we lost in Washington, on college campuses, on the CBS Evening News and at the Peace Table in Paris; all thanks to them. They hate Capitalism, Corporations, the military, the CIA and anything that helps America maintain and spread its greatness.

What they fail to see, however, in their mania to regain their youthful glory days, is that North Vietnam was no real threat to Main Street USA the way Islamic Fundamentalism is. North Vietnamese troops were not going to be marching down the National Mall; terrorists just might come skulking down that way, and soon.

They don't care; they hate Bush because he "stole" the elections, flew those damn planes into the towers and got us into Iraq on flase pretenses. They hate America because it succeeds as a nation.

Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy, even Johnson; they were Democrats from the Democratic Party. Too many of the people who got voted into power this month are self-loathing, America-hating Moonbat liberal "Democrats" with roots in the Socialist Party. All we can do is hope they fall all over each other in their rush to destroy the nation they hate, and fail.
And mark my words....when the troops come home, and we start talking and negotiating with our Fundamantalist enemies.....when Washington, or New York, or Boston, or LA, or Chicago.....or maybe all five, go up in mushroom clouds.....the Republicans will somehow have to take the blame. The Dems will never, ever admit their own America-hating, self-righteous foolishness and meddling, short-sighted idiocy.
Reply #28 Top
The enemy knows one thing full well, and that is, "You don't defeat the U.S. military on the battlefield, you defeat them on the floor of the House and Senate." There are too many in Congress (and in America) who are willing to help the terrorists attain their goal.


Great point.  People should be aware that the terrorists in Iraq and elsewhere pay attention to our media and political events.  I believe they wanted the terrorists to win because they know the democrats want to pull out of Iraq.

I don't care if someone agrees or disagrees with the war, but hoping for your own country to lose is just pathetic.


Reply #29 Top
Second quote is not mine.

(edit: I made a mistake, didn't quote which comment I was responding to, now I correct this. I am referring to the comment of Rightwinger)
Reply #30 Top
The primary problem with the United States is that its citizens generally have no knowledge of history and therefore no perspective on the nature of war.


Very true.

Reply #31 Top
What I meant is that American civilians never really experienced war on their on skin. American cities were never bombed, nor factories. It became never a mass experience for them that war is a horrible thing. American population lacks the experience of being bombed on a daily basis, living in fear, having blackouts every third our, having not enough food.
---kdgergo

Reply #30
The primary problem with the United States is that its citizens generally have no knowledge of history and therefore no perspective on the nature of war.




Very true.
(answered by kdgergo)

I'd be curious to know how old you are, kd....it's been a long time since Europeans have experienced any open hostilities, themselves. Condemning us for never having had the pleasure of being bombed in our own homes when many, indeed most, in Europe nowadays have never had the pleasure, either, smacks of hypocrisy.
Reply #32 Top
I am not old enough to experience war on my own skin, thankfully. But as a sidenote, I lived in Communism. It isn't a great ride, either.

Also, I am not condemning you for never having the "pleasure". Simply somehow I feel Americans are not as used to wasted lives like Europeans are.. Alas, we have a thousands years' tradition of killing each other..

And you know this traumas I mentioned somehow live longer than the person who experienced it. They are burned in the memories of people, they are living in the mouths of your parents and grandparents. It is something which is not forgotten easily, it builds into the national memory and character.
America lacks this. You can be glad for this reason, but in war this is rather a disadvantage.

My reply to nr30 is another topic. Most Americans doesn't know much about world history. Your history-teaching is centered on you, which can be good from a point of view, but -as a symptom of lack of knowledge- makes many American people think losing some 3000 troops is much. Which is (at least I think so) not much. In the context of the long and bloody wars fought especially in Europe, it is not a quantity.

Reply #33 Top
My reply to nr30 is another topic. Most Americans doesn't know much about world history. Your history-teaching is centered on you, which can be good from a point of view, but -as a symptom of lack of knowledge- makes many American people think losing some 3000 troops is much. Which is (at least I think so) not much. In the context of the long and bloody wars fought especially in Europe, it is not a quantity.


My husband is working NATO in Afghanistan soon. He is working with a German, a Col, he met while training in Norway. Did you know right now after around 18 deaths so far, the Germans are saying if they lose one more soldier they are pulling out? That is according to this man, who is THE ranking German officer in Afghanistan. (Whether they will or not remains to be seen, but it is what they are saying back home.)

When my husband asked him "Why?" The answer was, "The German people will not stand for it."

I actually agree with a lot of what you see about America. While unflattering to the country I love...we need to see our flaws for what they are and work with them. Not ignore them. I do think America is young, and therefore convinced of our invincibility. And like every country before us, it will take our own hard knocks to "mature" or be annihilated. Wisdom can't be rushed.

I also think its important to note that while Iraq gets most of the attention....the "nation building" troops in Afghanistan have recently armed themselves...or sent other UN soldiers to guard them. That is sad.

How do we help people who refuse to help themselves? Who use their faith as a reason to fail, to murder, to not turn in murderers? Who slit the throats of men who are sweating and laboring to rebuild their country?

I don't know.

I have to work everyday to keep from hating them (the terrorists and the people who quietly watch as American troops walk over a land mind they saw planted). If my husband is harmed or killed I am afraid the hate will win out.
Reply #34 Top
Thank you for your kind words, I'm glad you see things similar to a way I do.

I agree with your other statements completely. Maturity comes at a price. I wish maturity didn't come with blood and failures. All the conflicts of the Earth come from beliefs: ideologies and religions. Western civilizations acquired some kind of tolerance, Islam as a civilizations lacks tolerance, it sees itself as the Only. We can tolerate them, but they will not tolerate us. This is why I staunchly oppose Muslim immigration to Europe.

How do we help people who refuse to help themselves? Who use their faith as a reason to fail, to murder, to not turn in murderers? Who slit the throats of men who are sweating and laboring to rebuild their country?


I'd raise a question. Are we honor bound to help?




Reply #35 Top
Are we honor bound to help?


Good question. I don't know.

I believe, as a Christian, I should help those who ask, and look out for people who can't help themselves. But when those people are among the muslim haters, it gets sticky.

I don't want my loved ones dying for people (who once on their feet) believe no other faith has a right to exist.

I don't have the answers. Good thing I'm not in charge.  

Reply #36 Top
There is NO such thing as the War on Terror. Terror is a tactic in war. We are in a war with factions of the Moslems all over the world. What we have done in Iraq and how we have allowed the Israeli/Palestine issue to fester, how we allowed Lebanon to be destroyed over two Israeli soldiers being captured and our presence in the Middle East to protect access to oil are what is behind the hate that is the driving force in the Moslem World toward the U.S.

We had a case to enter Afghanistan after 9/11. There was no such justification to invade Iraq. Now we have uncorked the sectarian violence that has existed in Iraq for many years and have allowed foreign groups like al Qaeda to operate in Iraq. The only way to regain control in Iraq would be to send in a massive military force and accept large numbers of casualties on all sides to reestablish security.

If we had sent the 500,000 troops when Saddam fell and stopped any organization of both internal and external factions, we might have been able to turn over a stable Iraq to the newly elected Iraqi government. Now that will not happen and Bush kids himself if he believes that stability will be established by our 150,000 troops in Iraq. In the mean time, Afghanistan is getting worse by the day because we NEVER finished the job in that country!

There is not a single element of the Bush Foreign policy that has produced anything but a disaster- North Korea, China, Russia and South and Central America as well as the Greater Moslem World.
Reply #37 Top
I have found it very disturbing of certain people, including the ones just elected to power who seem content and even happy about the possibility of losing in Iraq and the entire war on terror.


i'm not aware of one of those recently elected who is either content, much less happy about losing in iraq. most of us opposed to the ongoing war in iraq believe it to be a dangerous diversion that is depriving us of resources vital to fighting the real war on terror.

but please prove me wrong. provide names, direct quotes and dates to prove your assertion. if you're unable to do so, please be a man and apologize for utting such irresponsible and hateful false accusations.
Reply #38 Top
If Bush was for cut and run, the democrats would be against it. It has nothing to do with liking anything. It is simple hate. That is all they have left, and they feed on it.


i really have a difficult time determining which one--you or island dog--possesses the most most simplistic puerile world view. the fact that you both beat lucas outta the running oughta be a wakeup call for the both of you.
Reply #39 Top
i really have a difficult time determining which one--you or island dog--possesses the most most simplistic puerile world view. the fact that you both beat lucas outta the running oughta be a wakeup call for the both of you.


Ah, you are so sweet! I just love ignorant arrogance.
Reply #40 Top

 

There is NO such thing as the War on Terror. Terror is a tactic in war. We are in a war with factions of the Moslems all over the world. What we have done in Iraq and how we have allowed the Israeli/Palestine issue to fester, how we allowed Lebanon to be destroyed over two Israeli soldiers being captured and our presence in the Middle East to protect access to oil are what is behind the hate that is the driving force in the Moslem World toward the U.S.

And all this started when col?  Islamic terrorism has been around way before Bush.  I also love how you say "we let Lebanon" be destroyed".  Do you actually believe the things you write? 

 Do you understand what islamists want col?  They want world domination of islam.  They use oil, Israel, etc. as excuses for weak minded people who think that if Israel gave into islam, that the world would suddenly become peaceful.  You really should stop listening to terrorist propaganda.

There is not a single element of the Bush Foreign policy that has produced anything but a disaster- North Korea, China, Russia and South and Central America as well as the Greater Moslem World.

You never see anything but what the media tells you col.  The muslim world has been a mess for decades, only you can somehow attribute it to Bush.

i'm not aware of one of those recently elected who is either content, much less happy about losing in iraq. most of us opposed to the ongoing war in iraq believe it to be a dangerous diversion that is depriving us of resources vital to fighting the real war on terror.

but please prove me wrong. provide names, direct quotes and dates to prove your assertion. if you're unable to do so, please be a man and apologize for utting such irresponsible and hateful false accusations.

It's not hateful, or false.  Do you actually believe democrats want anything of Bush to succeed?  Do you believe people don't wish for Iraq to fail just so they can blame Bush?  If you want names and addresses head over to the DU, or the democratic side of Congrerss.  Plenty of hate and false accusations there.

 

Reply #41 Top
They want world domination of islam.


In this case nuking them down from the face of the Earth would be the best solution.
And certainly this case has a very high probability.
Reply #42 Top
Some elements of Islam want all to convert. Others just want the West to stay out of their countries. They also react to the one sided way the U.S. deals with Israel.

There were problems before Bush with Moslems but the actions of Bush have made the situation even more dangerous.

My point is that NOTHING Bush has done has had a positive impact on the issues causing the hate and we have more enemies today then ever before. We have also picked a fight that we should never have become involved in (Iraq) and have fought that fight in the wrong way.
Reply #43 Top
ColGene farts his stupidity again.
Reply #44 Top

There were problems before Bush with Moslems but the actions of Bush have made the situation even more dangerous.

Sure col.  Sept. 11 was just an off the wall reaction, right?

My point is that NOTHING Bush has done has had a positive impact on the issues causing the hate and we have more enemies today then ever before. We have also picked a fight that we should never have become involved in (Iraq) and have fought that fight in the wrong way.

Bush has done the right thing about terror.  He is fighting it with force and not treating like a law enforcement issue like the previous administration did.  Fighting terrorists makes terrorists and their supporters angry, SO BE IT!!!!!!

Reply #45 Top
If you want names and addresses head over to the DU, or the democratic side of Congrerss. Plenty of hate and false accusations there.


then you should easily be able to provide evidence to substantiate the claim you made regarding newly elected officials or those democrats already in office being content with or happy about iraq sinking into chaos.

if you can't, you've very definitely made false and hateful statements and, if you've any shred of decency, you'll admit it and apologize for having done so.
Reply #46 Top
There is NO such thing as the War on Terror. Terror is a tactic in war. We are in a war with factions of the Moslems all over the world. What we have done in Iraq and how we have allowed the Israeli/Palestine issue to fester, how we allowed Lebanon to be destroyed over two Israeli soldiers being captured and our presence in the Middle East to protect access to oil are what is behind the hate that is the driving force in the Moslem World toward the U.S.

We had a case to enter Afghanistan after 9/11. There was no such justification to invade Iraq. Now we have uncorked the sectarian violence that has existed in Iraq for many years and have allowed foreign groups like al Qaeda to operate in Iraq. The only way to regain control in Iraq would be to send in a massive military force and accept large numbers of casualties on all sides to reestablish security.

If we had sent the 500,000 troops when Saddam fell and stopped any organization of both internal and external factions, we might have been able to turn over a stable Iraq to the newly elected Iraqi government. Now that will not happen and Bush kids himself if he believes that stability will be established by our 150,000 troops in Iraq. In the mean time, Afghanistan is getting worse by the day because we NEVER finished the job in that country!

There is not a single element of the Bush Foreign policy that has produced anything but a disaster- North Korea, China, Russia and South and Central America as well as the Greater Moslem World.


this is as coherent and accurate assessment of the bush legacy as i've yet seen.

col gene hardly seems content or happy about the situation. if anything he seems not only frustrated by angered by the way this administration has failed us and the world by insisting down is up, wrong is right and wishes produce results.

how much worse do things have to become before you finally see the goddamn light?
Reply #47 Top
as far as the question posed by your title, it does appear there are people happy to lose a war...as long as their preferred commander in chief loses it.

otherwise i got no clue why you continue to back a campaign that has so obviously failed even bush has all but conceded that fact.
Reply #48 Top
I value the lives of our military a lot more then GWB. We have too many leaders that never served in the active military. I believe there are only two children of Members of Congress serving in Iraq. Bush avoided Vietnam by having his father get him into the National Guard and Cheney used deferments to stay out of the military.

When we have no choice putting our troops in danger is one thing. Iraq was NOT necessary and all the brave military have risked their lives under the illusion that their sacrifice has made us safer. That is the BIG LIE of Bush and Cheney. Their sacrifice has NOT made America Safer!!!
Reply #49 Top

 

then you should easily be able to provide evidence to substantiate the claim you made regarding newly elected officials or those democrats already in office being content with or happy about iraq sinking into chaos.

if you can't, you've very definitely made false and hateful statements and, if you've any shred of decency, you'll admit it and apologize for having done so.

I read the statements by Pelosi, Murtha, Kennedy.  There's enough hate in them to cover it.  

I value the lives of our military a lot more then GWB. We have too many leaders that never served in the active military. I believe there are only two children of Members of Congress serving in Iraq. Bush avoided Vietnam by having his father get him into the National Guard and Cheney used deferments to stay out of the military.

Serving in the military is a choice, not a requirement.  Bush served his country, so don't start your Bush/Vietnam drama again.

When we have no choice putting our troops in danger is one thing. Iraq was NOT necessary and all the brave military have risked their lives under the illusion that their sacrifice has made us safer. That is the BIG LIE of Bush and Cheney. Their sacrifice has NOT made America Safer!!!

I don't see any terrorists in the streets col.  It seems they are all overseas fighting the infidels. 

Reply #50 Top
IslandDog

No Bush got his father to get him out of Vietnam and then did not fulfill the requirements in the Guard when he refused to take a REQUIRED Physical and attend drills. Then his father used his contacts get George an Honorable Early discharge the he DID NOT DESERVE!

It may be time to return to making military service a REQUIREMENT! It is TOO easy for political leaders send someone else children into harms way.

We have not been attacked because we have strengthened our efforts to stop attacks. We know that there have been attempts in fact Bush as told us that. We have added to the number of our enemies that would be willing to attack us which makes us LESS SAFE!