The Islamics are "seething with anger" and resentment because they believe, as do many Jews and Christians, that Father Abraham banished Ishmael and Haggar to the desert in favor of Issac. They've been overly sensitive to any slight and insult, perceived or real, ever since.

Funny how the world press, which usually responds to Islamic unrest with kid gloves and vast understanding and rationalization, responded to this one.
They take umbridge at the freedom of the press, respond in their usual way, and suddenly Islam is a threat.
Like the rest of us didn't know that already, and for thirty years, at that.

Seems like JU's local klan is seetting in more hate than most Muslims could even dream of

Sorry, but that's bullshit. I'm going to have to raise the bullshit flag on that statement. I know who you're talking about, and she hasn't said anything worse than what I've said.

You seem to have quite a bit of hatred too. Nice to see you down on our level for a change.

It’s interesting how so many of the right-wingers here at JU are speaking out against the Muslim culture of violence and hatred when 97% of the Iraqis we “liberated” from the tyranny of Saddam Hussein are Muslims, many with the same tendency towards hatred and violence. With the current cost of the Iraq war approaching 240 BILLION dollars and costs when we’re finished with this mess estimated at 2 TRILLION dollars, not to mention all the casualties, what the hell are we doing over there?

You'd rather we spoke out for the Muslim culture of violence and hatred, Ben?

And if you really think what we did in Iraq and the senseless violence in response to a perceived insult from a cartoon are somehow equivalent, you have a reality perception problem of major proportions, perhaps brought on by cranio-rectal inversion.

Cheers,
Daiwa

It’s interesting how so many of the right-wingers here at JU are speaking out against the Muslim culture of violence and hatred when 97% of the Iraqis we “liberated” from the tyranny of Saddam Hussein are Muslims, many with the same tendency towards hatred and violence.

Yes, I suppose it must be interesting for you.

(By the way, you forgot to put "tyranny" in sarcasm quotes. Your complete and utter disrespect for other people's lives and humanity in general didn't quite show as clearly as it usually does.)

It’s interesting how so many of the right-wingers here at JU are speaking out against the Muslim culture of violence and hatred when 97% of the Iraqis we “liberated” from the tyranny of Saddam Hussein are Muslims, many with the same tendency towards hatred and violence.

---BenU

Well, from what I keep hearing, it's not so much the Iraqi people we're fighting anymore.
Oh sure, maybe a few here and there, but it's mainly the Islamo-fascist whacko insurgents, now. Those from surrounding countries who don't want democracy to actually take root. The Iraqis are supposedly as pissed off about them as we are.
If they're given the chance to enjoy that democracy, the openness and personal freedom that comes with it (which they've never enjoyed, EVER) and to really reap its benefits, then maybe they won't be so hateful anymore. They'll be able to think and react for themselves, rather than how a dictator, religious or otherwise, tells them to.
Is that possiblity, no matter how remote you might think it is, really such a bad thing?

What is taking place in the Moslem world over these cartoons should make it clear how fundamental the differences there are between our culture and the Moslem world. I do not approve of the cartoons but they are no excuse for what is taking place. I think back how WWI was triggered by the death of one person in the midst of an explosive environment. WE may be looking at another conflict that is triggered by such an event. I think it is pure fantasy to believe we will achieve peace in the Moslem world by just spreading democracy. I see very little hope for that looking the reaction to a few cartoons. We had better look to how we would deal with a massive Moslem uprising world wide. Look at what took place in France a few months ago. Remember Nostradomus and his quatrain that predicted the 27 year war that began in the Moslem world and consumed most of the world before it ended when the two giants that touch at the Polar caps joined forces to bring the war to an end.

I think back how WWI was triggered by the death of one person in the midst of an explosive environment. WE may be looking at another conflict that is triggered by such an event.

--Col Gene

9/11 killed 3,000 of them in one fell swoop. Isn't that enough justification for you?

I think it is pure fantasy to believe we will achieve peace in the Moslem world by just spreading democracy.

---Col Gene

You don't know that....no one does because it's never been tried. Oh, wait----yes it has.....it settled and matured Germany and Japan very well, thank you very much.

They weren't Muslims, RW.

---LW

True, but that doesn't mean it couldn't work as well with them, given a chance.

Holy crap.....LW agrees with the Col. I think Jesus is comin' back tonight!

Remember Nostradomus and his quatrain that predicted the 27 year war that began in the Moslem world and consumed most of the world before it ended when the two giants that touch at the Polar caps joined forces to bring the war to an end.

If we ever needed hard evidence of Gene's lunacy, he's given it to us right there. Preserve this blog, please.

Cheers,
Daiwa

That... was a coherant and, well, thoughtful post from Col Gene. I'm, well, I'm speechless. No Bush, no Republican, just, well... talking, like a person.

Don't condemn the Col, there's a lot of people here, including me, that believe things just as offbeat.

I thought the same thing... until that last bit. That's a little more than just "offbeat," if you ask me, Baker.

Cheers,
Daiwa

The response is such that I have to deal with quite a few issues. I too am a civil libertarian and do not want to see sensorship imposed on writers. So when I c say that the cartoons were offensive I am only stating an obvious civilizational point that we must not dishonor the sacred symbols of other faiths because it is an invitation to violence on a scale that we cannot veen imagine. What grat principle of Freedom was served by the cartoons except providing a pretext for what Huntington once called "clash of civilzation". That is why I feel that the principle of Oliver Wendell Holmes is quite appropriate. Islam may be in a mood of sullen defiance today but let it not be forgotten that it was Islam that preserved the great Classical Heritege of the West and tranmitted to Europe via the Renaissance. It is a pity that the political squabbles of today are obcuring a great and vibrant civilization. Can any historian of medieval Europe match the vision and breath of ibn Khaldun.

"So when I c say that the cartoons were offensive I am only stating an obvious civilizational point that we must not dishonor the sacred symbols of other faiths because it is an invitation to violence on a scale that we cannot veen imagine."

Two problems with that.

First, they were offensive to YOU. People have different ideas about what is offensive. I'm sure many powerful people find having their actions questioned to be offended. Don't you think it better if we tolerate offense in the name of shared freedom?

Second, to say that a statement is "an invitation to violence" is akin to saying wearing a short skirt invites rape. The blame for violence should only fall on the violent, period. When we start saying things like "They asked for it", then we create a circumstance wherein violence is expected, and excused.

I'm sure you wouldn't want to add your voice to the list of people who believe that violence is the inevitable response to offending Muslims. The problem is, that is just what you said. You think they shouldn't have printed the cartoons because it was an "invitation to violence." You, yourself seem to admit that people should expect violence from Muslims.

"hat is why I feel that the principle of Oliver Wendell Holmes is quite appropriate. "

I doubt Oliver Wendell Holmes would have ever, ever said that an insult is grounds for violence. You are likening this to shouting "Fire" in a crowded theater. The people storming through Christian neighborhoods aren't fleeing for their lives, they are seeking out violence, and that is a crime. The only one to blame for a crime is the criminal.

"Islam may be in a mood of sullen defiance today but let it not be forgotten that it was Islam that preserved the great Classical Heritege of the West and tranmitted to Europe via the Renaissance."

Frankly, and with all due respect, many people believe that Islam itself is to blame for the decline. As with any religion, it can be used to illuminate and raise people up, or it can be used to keep them ignorant and subserviant. Islam was hijacked by leaders in the Middle East to keep people ignorant and obedient.

Once people are controlled, they are weilded like swords, and ignorant leaders such as that of Syria and Saudi Arabia are using this issue to further bias their people against the west. People often hear about the Crusades as a great wrong. I see Islam in a phase not unlike that, where evil, powerhungry people are trying to pit themselves against the world. We shouldn't help them by excusing their tactics.

Saying that we should expect embassies to be burned because of a cartoon is little different than Osama bin Laden saying we should expect terrorist attacks because of our apathy regarding the Middle East. I know you don't mean that, nor do you intend to say that Muslims are to be expected to be violent.

It is easy for Islam to demand an end to any bias against them, but are they willing to give up centuries old biases

YOU. People have different ideas about what is offensive. I'm sure many powerful people find having their actions questioned to be offended

Look at the hard-line Islamists elected in Iraq and Afghanistan, for instance, the nutcase currently heading Iran, or the Palestinian's election of Hamas.

It takes two hands to clap. And it is the more powerful that must take the first step. Now you can disagree but the fact is that problems have been created in the Middle East in order to assuage the conscience of Europeans who wetre responsible for the Halocaust. How can the ordinary Arab or Palestenian responsible for the Holocaust and hence the Palestinain issue must be settled and I believe that the Road Map is a good enough starting point.

The test of Freedom of Expression is not the freedom to offend the sacred symbols of other cultures but when such offences take place witin the cultural context of European culture itself. It is easy enough to caricature the symbols of Islam., offend Moslems and then claim that Freedom of the Press and the alike are involved as if a moraL Imperative is at staske.

If the USA can elect George Bush why deny Palestenians the right to elect Hamas.

If the USA can elect George Bush why deny Palestenians the right to elect Hamas.

We didn't deny them the right to elect Hamas. They elected Hamas didn't they?

Now they can live with the consequences. Hamas is our enemy. They elected our enemy to lead them. Therefore, they are now our enemy as far as I'm concerned.

Imagine if Hitler came to the US during WW2 and was elected president. Americans KNOWING what he stood for and what he believed. That would make his enemies, our enemies wouldn't it?

Yup yup.

So now that Hamas is leading Palestine. Palestine is our enemy. Unless one is so naive as to think they will "turn over a new leaf" and become a decent group. FAT CHANCE.

Sorry, but those are called CONSEQUENCES.

Deal.

but those are called CONSEQUENCES

Yes. That is the problem. The positions have hardened into habits and the West believes that it can cruush the Moslem world. Unfortunately, Arab nationalism is now replaced by a pan Islamic Jehadist mentality thaT BODES ILL FOR PEACE IN THE WORLD.

BODES ILL FOR PEACE IN THE WORLD.

The Muslim faith bodes ill for peace in this world. IT is a religion of violence.

As it spreads and collects more converts, guess what? The world has more violence.

There will be no peace with or without war. At least during war we can FIGHT BACK and not be called names by the rest of the world for it.

I am not a war monger, nor do I want another world war.

At the same time, I don't want more terrorists attacks.

During war we can deal immediately with the threat, during "peace" we just get to be the target while we are bogged down with places like the UN, who cater to the people like the French, who LOVE to see us getting sucker punched.

Remember Nostradomus and his quatrain that predicted the 27 year war that began in the Moslem world and consumed most of the world before it ended when the two giants that touch at the Polar caps joined forces to bring the war to an end.

Any credibility you had is now gone. Between your Michael Moore lies and Nostradomus predictions, you are a fraud.

f the USA can elect George Bush why deny Palestenians the right to elect Hamas.

Because Bush is not a terrorist leader, although many looney lefties believe this.

We had better look to how we would deal with a massive Moslem uprising world wide.

Col actually has a thought. The problem is col people, mostly liberals and europeans (like there's a difference) don't see islam as a threat. It's a protected religion in their minds. These are people that believe a Christian telling them abortion is wrong is some religious lunatic, but a islamist blowing up a school with children is just "misunderstood" in the world.

Spreading democracy in the Middle East is a great thing, but it will not instantly achieve peace. Only the total destruction or major reform of islam will do that. Don't be fooled by this cartoon bs. These cartoons were published months ago. This is just another excuse for muslims to go wild and do whatever they want while using the excuse of "we are offended".

So to correct you col, we do know what to do when the massive islamic uprising occurs. I have been saying for many months the islamic revolution is coming. The real question is col, what side will the liberals and europeans take?

We had better look to how we would deal with a massive Moslem uprising world wide.

Can we call acts of terrorism and arson "attacks", please? I am sick and tired of this habit of referring to every evil deed comitted by self-declared Muslims with some positive-sounding word. An "uprising" is not quite the same as attacking random embassies and killing random people whom one has never had any contact with before.

Let's all agree that a Jordanian who kills Iraqis is a "terrorist", not an "insurgent"; that a Egyptian who kills Jewish children is a "terrorist" as well, and not a "freedom fighter" or "militant"; and that a group of people who burn down an embassy over a cartoon are a "bunch of loonies" (I believe is the technical term) or "criminals" and engaged in "arson", not in an "uprising".

Remember Nostradomus and his quatrain that predicted the 27 year war that began in the moslem world and consumed most of the world before it ended when the two giants that touch at the Polar caps joined forces to bring the war to an end.

"Boy", YOU just blew it BIG time? Nostradamus? (you can't even spell it right! or "muslim" either.) Is a PROVEN crock of ca-ca! See you around the asylum!

You see Col, how easy it was to express yourself without Bush Bashing? You made your point and actually had many agree with you, even me. You have to admit though that by adding Nostra to the reply killed you big time. But if we can ignore that point we can still believe there is still hope for you.

"You have to admit though that by adding Nostra to the reply killed you big time"

Only from the people who were looking for something to rag on him about anyway...

Bahu, if you are Muslim, it might do some good to explain why creating an image of The Prophet is so offensive in the first place to Muslims - let alone a disparaging supposed image of The Prophet.

It would help 'Westerners' gain some perspective on the issue.

Aside from enlightening westerners, it is important to realize this comic was released four months ago.

Four months?

And we're just now seeing a response?

Mullahs in the mid-east and extremists are using this as propaganda to support jihad. Let's not allow the puppetmasters to continue pulling the strings.

Any country that would deny the holocaust must have a reason for doing so. The #1 reason would be to destroy any empathy for the Jews that the fact and horror of that most evil time in Western history brings to the soul of man. It wasn't so long ago, and the Nazis brought Germany to near total destruction with their instituted hatred. The whole of civilized mankind learned a terrible lesson. Where was Iran? I believe they were there back then, so the question is re-worded, where have they gone. I saw this old Bergman documentary on how the Nazi propaganda masters utilized their media, schools, and false science to reduce Jews into a sub-human element in the minds of the the German population, young and old. Huge headline such as "Jewish teacher poisons German youth" were pushed constantly on the busy, hard-working Germans, and they would have to read 3 or 4 paragraphs down before they would find out the reporter was not talking about a literal 'poisoning', but that teacher was poisoning the 'minds' of the children, the article claimed. Little short-subject films inbetween the feature films were shown depicting white-frocked scientist demonstrating the different frontal skull structure of the Jew that caused their thinking and feeling abilties to be inferior to that of the Aryan peoples. The Nazi propagandist thought themselves very smart as they put that hell together for their peaceful, highly pro-German citizens, the Jews. Ask the Jews if it really happened. This stuff is all very much documented. It's old hat, or old turban if you will, Mr Iranian president. At any rate, ask the German people if it really happened. They might remember it...Have you ever heard of the 'History Channel'? They will tell you.