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WHY IS THE MOSLEM WORLD SEETHING WITH RAGE

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WHY IS THE MOSLEM WORLD SEETHING WITH RAGE

WHAT THE WEST CAN DO

from JoeUser Forums
A few weeks back a Danish newspaper published a picture of Prophet Momammad, peace be on his name. The cartoon showed the Prophet wearing a bomb in his turban. The Moslem world was just aghast at this irreverential portrayal of the Prophet. Since then the fires have been raging in Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Pakistan and Afghanistan. The Western embedded media says that it is a clash between Freedom of Expression and an increasingly intolerant Islam. This view is wrong because there are laws in all Western countries against Blasphemy and Racism. No one can claim the right to publish a cartton dishonoring Jesus Christ and claim that freedom of rxpression protects him/her. Therefore the principle of Freedom of the Press or ERxpression is not involved. The Wesrern Media is claiming unto itself the Right to dishonor Islam in the name of Democratic Freedoms. As Oliverm Wendell Holmes once said. you cannot shout fire in a crowded theatre and then claim that the act and its consequenes are covered by the First Ammendment. The present case is similar.

There is a strong feeling in the Islamic world that the West is trying to undermine Islam as a religion and civilization by constantly depicing it as a fundamenmtalist, aggressive, lawless force. The anger that is spilling on to the streets is a spontaneous expression of the frustrations that people feel when their sacred symbols are cynically violated.
politics
41,284 views 130 replies
Reply #126 from JoeUser Forums Top

the answer to rooting out extremism is notg through violence or hatred (infact that fuels it) its through tolerance understanding and education


That is true.

And that is why it is so important to re-build the schools in Iraq, the same schools that were not allowed to teach tolerance and understanding under Saddam. That is why it is so important that peoples like the Iraqis and the Arab Palestinians are allowed to vote for their governments, even if they do elect racist idiots. And that is why regimes that support intolerance must be opposed, removed from power, and never defended.



I have seen alot of seething hate which in my opinion has stemmed from disinformation and the potrayel of islam in the media,


What is the portrayal of Islam in the media other than what Islam currently is? The media are not exagerating the facts, they are merely downplaying the dangers when they call terrorists "militants" or "resistance fighters" after they killed Israeli civilians or blew up a mosque in Iraq. If the media would refer to a terrorist as a terrorist, people can make up their own minds about what Islam is.

What disinformation do you see that causes hate among the people you know (the hate that you can see)? Can you give examples? Perhaps we can do something here and now.



its the manipulative people like OBL and his extremist group who brainwash good kids into doing bad things by purposely making them mis interpret islam


That is true. But can you give an example of one of OBL's misinterpretations? I am curious as to whether you are simply repeating what you have heard or whether you came to that conclusion on your own. You make a few good points, and I want to know whether they are really yours.



this reminds me alot of the cold war era really when all the time the tv was making the russians appear as evil ruuskies


I grew up in West-Berlin, a city isolated from the rest of the world by a wall built by the Russian-supported government of East-Germany. Believe me, no TV was needed to make the Russians appear as "evil ruuskies". Their land mines at the border and their soldiers who killed East-German refugees who tried to cross the border were quite sufficient.

The Russian people were not evil, but their regime sure was; at least until Gorbatchev. And the regimes they bred in eastern Europe caused so much sadness, it will take decades or centuries to forget, and to forgive.

Similarly the Iraqi people are not evil, but the Iraqi regime was. Now that the Iraqis have a choice, Iraq is no longer evil.
Reply #127 from JoeUser Forums Top
Well-done, Andrew.
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Reply #128 from JoeUser Forums Top
Islamic nations in the middle ages were the most cultured people in the world , they were rich in science and arts , Algebra , astronmy , much had alot to do with Islam (algebra for example came from the scientist Al Jabr). Thus islamic nations at one time were extremely scientific and spiritual,
---virtualone

Yes, and while the rest of the world took their contributions and moved on through the centuries, the Muslims stayed behind. They've given us nothing, nada, zilch for the last 700 years. Except corpses, of course. Lots and lots of them.

civilized people of today to understand and firstly learn to tolerate one another and then find the root causes like the ones mentioned above and try to settle them , only then can we achieve peace. Also i would like to add that actions of a few should not be considered actions of the second largest faith in the world , for God sake , there are millions of people following this faith who live amongst you , who are your friends and co workers can you seriously blame them for an illiterate who burns a flag in a mob of 50
---virtualone

I've said it before and I'll say it as often as needed:

When the "peaceful" Muslims stand up and speak out against the atrocities of bin-Laden and others, and the hijscking of their faith by these mutants, with as much zealotry and fire as they did the stupid "Mohammed Cartoons", then I'll be happy to reexamine them and their faith. To this point, I've seen nothing, nada, zilch.
When you let the mutants do all your talking for you, people get to thinking you agree with them, and there you go.
Reply #129 from JoeUser Forums Top
You don't know that....no one does because it's never been tried. Oh, wait----yes it has.....it settled and matured Germany and Japan very well, thank you very much.


Germany had a kind of democracy in the same sense as Britain did at the time before Hitler. Not a particularily well working one, but still. They had free press and many democratic systems in place.

Hitler took them on a trip of the path, but arguably the detour only lasted about 10 years, so most germans knew what they had before, and it wasn't an extreme shock for them to return to that.

About Japan:

In 1854, Commodore Matthew Perry of the United States Navy forced the opening of Japan to the West with the Convention of Kanagawa. The Boshin War of 1867 to 1868 led to the resignation of the shogunate, and the Meiji Restoration established a government centered around the emperor.

Japan adopted numerous Western institutions during the Meiji period, including a modern government, legal system, and military. These reforms helped transform the Empire of Japan into a world power, defeating China in the First Sino-Japanese War (1894-1895) and Russia in the Russo-Japanese War (1904-1905). The Russo-Japanese war is important because it was the first time that an Asian country defeated an imperialistic power. By 1910, Japan controlled Korea, Taiwan, and the southern half of Sakhalin.

from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan#Modern_eraLink

So they too had a little detour.

Russia followed its own path where the communists overthrew a peasant state system and while they weren't technically free as we like to see it, they arguably experienced an enlightening period after the fall of the Tsar, and they've slowly developed into the nation they are now. They have some work to do, but they could also serve as an example that democracy doesn't just "happen".

Its my belief that democracy and freedom isn't as clear cut and "natural" to humans as we like to think. We're tribal animals when it all boils down do it. Some like to lead others, others like to be lead. There's nothing inherently evil or good and not in itself necessarily a signal of character strength in wanting to be a leader or wanting to be lead either. We all have different ideals and dreams and visions.
Reply #130 from JoeUser Forums Top
Germany had a kind of democracy in the same sense as Britain did at the time before Hitler. Not a particularily well working one, but still. They had free press and many democratic systems in place.
----Zwirwel1

But before that, remember, they had a monarchic dictatorship.
Their democracy was imposed on them by the victors of the first World War; they weren't at all used to it, and had problems implementing it when they had it. That's one reason Hitler was so well-received and had no problem manipulating the electorate. He offered a return to Strongman leadership.

Russia followed its own path where the communists overthrew a peasant state system


And ultimately crowded those peasants onto collective farms where 70 million and more of them were starved to death and/or murdered by Stalin.

and while they weren't technically free as we like to see it, they arguably experienced an enlightening period after the fall of the Tsar,


Yeah, very arguably. For 70 years after the fall of the Tsar, they were real enlightened. Their actual enlightenment came after the fall of the Berlin Wall. Things lit up real quick for them after that.
Let's not forget the purges and pogroms in which the Communists killed any people they considered disloyal. This led to a serious dearth of true, talented leaders in the Red Army, which in turn led to their initial massive losses to the advancing Nazis after Hitler initiated Plan Barbarossa. Yeah, they were REAL enlightened.


and they've slowly developed into the nation they are now. They have some work to do, but they could also serve as an example that democracy doesn't just "happen".


Agreed; democracy doesn't just happen. It takes time. But Russia would be having an easier time if they had true "democrats" in office. Putin, for example, is former KGB; not exactly a shining example of democratic ideals. But then, "true" democrats may be hard to come by in such nations. They are in Iraq.


Its my belief that democracy and freedom isn't as clear cut and "natural" to humans as we like to think.


Maybe not, but it sure has its upside, don't you think? Otherwise, utterly noone from oppressed nations would be risking life and limb coming to live in the free and democratic West.



We're tribal animals when it all boils down do it. Some like to lead others, others like to be lead.


True, but to use Germany and Japan as examples again, they've done very well, given time, with the priciples of democracy, even considering their dictator-led pasts.


There's nothing inherently evil or good


Bullshit. That's liberal-speak. Telling someone to wrap themselves in dynamite and walk into a school, boarding a bus or entering restaurant is evil; parking an explosive-packed truck or flying planes into office buildings is evil. Killing completely innocent people in the name of a god is evil.
Killing, in itself, is evil. There is good and evil in the world, and it's all in black and white.
Good is good and evil is evil. Problem is, often the only way to defeat evil is to commit evil acts.

We all have different ideals and dreams and visions.


I can respect that, but not when those dreams and ideals include the deaths of me, my family and friends, and the destruction of my nation and the end to my way of life. That's where the line is drawn for me.