I do not have to have mined coal to know that one of the first questions is WHERE ARE ANY POSSIBLE SURVIVORS LOCATED.

Actually, Col, you WOULD. You see, mines in the United States ALSO have safe areas that are built as close as reasonably possible to the faces that are being mined. Because of the fact that mining can consume several feet of ore per day, it is impossible to have these refuges built directly near the miners. While one would hope it isn't the case, it is possible for groundfall in the main haulage to block the path to the refuge.

It is also possible for a miner to get lost in the myriad of tunnels, or for miners to panic and endanger their own safety by trying to find their own way out rather than wait for rescuers. This is a natural, human reaction. When I worked in the mine, we would often speculate on the possibility of climbing out through the ventilation shafts, for instance, and I have no doubt that similarly quixotic attempts were not only considered, but launched, by miners in the past. As I have said before, Col, without going down, there are simply a LOT of facts you DON'T know, and to which you are, frankly, COMPLETELY unqualified to speak.

Also with communications they would have known if they were alive.

Not necessarily. What communications would you propose, Col? Wireless? Are you not aware that 20 feet of rock would pretty much block out a wireless transmission? As for wired communications, here's a news flash, Col: THEY ALREADY HAVE THEM! It might surprise you, but rockfall can take out the wires of a communication system that goes through the area where the rockfall occurs. Once again, COL, you're speaking platitudes that have come about due to your TOTAL IGNORANCE regarding underground mining.

While I can't speak to whether the mines in question were in compliance with MSHA rules, I CAN speak to the conditions of an underground mine FAR better than you, Col, because I have BEEN THERE. If these mines were not in compliance with the regulations in place, they should be sanctioned accordingly. But neither you, nor I, have the qualifications to immediately assess the conditions at the Sago mine or others. And to do so prematurely is shameful; to exploit the deaths of those 12 miners to your political advantage as you have done, is simply beyond the pale.

As I said on the other blog, the mines in question had been told repeatedly that they weren't keeping to the safety standards we have NOW. It's irrational to believe that they would have been keeping up even more safety standards than that.

But Col said it might have been a lightning strike. (DJBandit laughs while typing this)

I do not have to have mined coal to know that one of the first questions is WHERE ARE ANY POSSIBLE SURVIVORS LOCATED.

Stpudity at it's finest, since that's not what the question ment.

Also with communications they would have known if they were alive

And that would have saved them how? They didn't know where they were you, aaaaaarrrhhhh.

Who benefits-- Simple the corporations that run the mines.

How exactly? By not sapending money of these systems so that when something happens they have to shut down, like they are right now, and stand to lose money every day they remain closed? Are you stupid or just acting?

Bush and the conservatives try and avoid ANYTHING that looks as if it may cost corporations anything.

Like I said, this tech is not that expensive so it's not like they would go bankrupt for it. BTW I though you said you were a Conservative, funny how quickly you change sides.

. The joke here is that the mine has lost far more then the cost of these systems would have cost.

I'm glad you see this as funny. Shows how much you really care about the accident itself.

You are and always will be a sad excuse for a human being. It's only a bad thing and you only care if Bush is involved and so far you involve him in everything.

Gideon
If we apply the rule that Bloggers MUST have first had knowledge about the issues they comment upon, we would have a lot of BLANK spaces on this Blog site!

Explain why Bush is considering the very thing he stopped in 2001 if it does not help? You ask why you would want to communicate with trapped miners- to know if they are alive and their condition. I know cell phones would not work but cable connections with proper Oxygen supplies might help.

"Explain why Bush is considering the very thing he stopped in 2001 if it does not help?"

Frankly to answer people like you for the sake of PR. Half the "response" government enacts after a disaster is just to settle down the loons who think it was all their fault. In reality these mines weren't being kept up to standards, so it boggles the mind how anyone thinks it would have mattered if the standards would have been harsher.

Baker

You are so blinded by supporting the looser we have in the White House you loose all sense of reason.

I'm sorry, col, but how is that so? Say someone is killed while speeding, going 75 mph in a 55 mph zone. The next day you step up and demand to know why the speed limit wasn't lowered to 45. Logical?

Of course not. The person was already speeding. These mines were already not keeping to the current standards in the face of warnings from inspectors. If they don't keep to the existing standards, what makes you think they would have kept to standards that were even more strict?

People like you are very destructive to society, because for political shallowness you divert the attention from the real cause of tragedy to some scapegoat you hate. People don't get outraged and see to the problem, they just toss a fit and blame the President. The real cause of the tragedy gets a pass.

These mines were already not keeping to the current standards in the face of warnings from inspectors.

I like my mine story better. It makes more sense.

BakerStreet
The real tragedy is what Bush and those that support him have and will do to this country. The impact of our trade policy, the loss in manufacturing and technology jobs, the refusal to balance the budget, the refusal to protect our countries borders, ignoring the fact we need to rebuild the infrastructure of this country and the impending financial requirements the baby boomers will bring to Social security, Medicare and Medicaid are not trivial or shallow. They are issues that will have a major impact on our future. Every one of these issues has gotten worse under the so called leadership of Bush. You can make believe these issues are not there but their impact can not be denied. I do not hate Bush but I do hate what he and the people that support him in Congress and in the GOP have done to our country.

You are a bona fide nut, col. So much so that you've lost the ability to see it yourself. When you reach the point in the conversation where you have to admit it wasn't Bush's fault, you just shift to an unrelated topic so you can still whine. You don't promote people taking it seriously because no one can take you seriously.

The policies we are following are those that Bush has proposed and got through Congress with people that think like he does on these issues. The increase in the Debt, the 3 million illegal aliens that came across our border, the $700 Billion trade deficit the fact that the new jobs that Bush touts pay 21% less then the jobs that were lost form 2001-2003 are all facts. None of these make me anything. I dig out the facts and those of you that blindly follow Bush ignore them. That does not mean they are not true and are harming this country. This week Congress cut help for our young people to attend college at the same time Bush us telling is how important education is to keep us competitive. That bill also cuts money from Medicare and Medicaid. Bush will sign that bill and become part of budget cuts that harm the middle income, the poor and our children. A few months ago Bush and the Congress granted $12 Billion in tax cuts to the oil companies as they rape all of us and make obscene profits!

I rejoice in the idea that the clueless one has several years on me and if the gods are willing, we won't be left having to read his crap that much longer.

The senility has obviously set it, and the results of the alzhiemers are there for us every day as he continues to repeat himself over and over as if the dementia is keeping him from remembering he already tried those same tired arguments in the past and failed with them.

It makes me laughe to see the Clueless one mention young people above when he was so damned deadset against Bush's proposed Social Security reform -- for selfish reasons no less. He was worried that old geezers such as himself would, as the AARP and their ilk told him, be victimized and see their benefits cut. Instead, thanks to Gene and others like him all of us will see benefits cut, and eventually there will be a raise in the ceiling on how much wage is subjected to Social Security taxes. Some comination of both will be applied because that broken and bankrupt program will be paying to keep someone like the Clueless one in fresh adult diapers every day while robbing the youth of this nation to continue to pay for it.

Gene is a selfish old goat, and a bitter one at that. Bitter enough to find one scapegoat to aim at. Yet again, I'd put forth the question others have asked before, and will ask again (since the dementia keeps him from remembering he never answers the question) -- what will Gene do when Bush is gone? Will he cry if Hillary gets in office, or will he attention whore some more by writing about the raping of the nation that will go one under another Clinton administration? Will he cry if Democrats change Social Security as I noted above and his benefits are cut? If so, who will he blame? Certainly not the do-nothing Dems that sat on their hands last year and then stood and cheered during the State of the Union address.

Disgusting. Nothing less than disgusting. It's people like Gene that remind me why we get movies like Logan's Run where once a person passes a certain age they are deemed no longer useful to society and are quietly disposed of so they don't become a burden on society.

what will Gene do when Bush is gone? Will he cry if Hillary gets in office, or will he attention whore some more by writing about the raping of the nation that will go one under another Clinton administration?

He will right a book call Hillary Clinton: First Female President, First Biggest Mistake of the Year.

Disgusting. Nothing less than disgusting. It's people like Gene that remind me why we get movies like Logan's Run where once a person passes a certain age they are deemed no longer useful to society and are quietly disposed of so they don't become a burden on society.

I think there should be a law against dememted people having internet access.

feel sorry for him. I don't think he's right (in the head, I mean). OCD or something. I kina pity him.

Could be said of Bush, I suspect. But it's so true that Bush-bashing gets nowhere any more than Clinton-bashing. As Li'l Whip would say, "Just the facts, ma'am."