Bush Trying to Sell Pork Sandwiches to Orthodox Jews

You are really losing it. Col, what color do you want your prayer rug to be when you want to surrender to islam?

Gaaahhh! I can't let this one go. This is ridiculous.

the fatal flaw in the Bush policy is that peace in the Middle East will come from free elections.

So, COL, you feel that the fundamental rights of man to self-determination as laid out in the Bill of Rights, the Consitution, the Declaration of Independence, and such American documents, as well as historical precendents in the roots of ancient democracy, are no longer valid?

What is so wrong with self-determination? Why are you so opposed to letting people have their vote? So Palestinians chose Hamas over Fatah: did anyone expect any less? The Palestinians have made their bed and they will lie in it.

Just because we don't like the outcome doesn't abrogate anyone's right to a free and fair vote.

I fully support our values and our Constitution. Again you try and distort what I have said because it does not support King George. Our objective in the Middle East has been to prevent terrorism and secure the United Stares and our allies. The current “spreading democracy” approach says that democracies in the Middle East will end the risk of terrorism to our country. The results so far are just the opposite. The people are selecting leaders that HATE us and plan to perpetuate the terrorism. In 1932, Hitler was elected by a democratic process just like the Palestinian election this week. That resulted in the worst terrorism the world has ever scene. Bush has said over and over again that we MUST JUDGE BY RESULTS. I agree. The results are clear; the policies we are following ARE NOT WORKING!

I love how you ignore all the successful elections, then judge everything on a new government that isn't even formed yet. Hypocrit.

I love how you ignore all the successful elections, then judge everything on a new government that isn't even formed yet. Hypocrit.

On that I agree.

Like I said in the other article Col, yes I agree we should not push our beliefs on to other cultures, it is just not right. But to condem everything over one small problem, which in reality just went from a 10 to a 10 (in other words no real change), while ignoring all the good things is just not a right analogy.

If everyone in the world was to base their beliefs on "even if one little things goes wrong it's not worth it", then we would never advance in this world. Everything has Pros and Cons Col and as long as the Pors outweigh the Cons, I'm OK with it. There will always be sacrifices, and I believe they are all worth it if the final result is a good one.

I would rather die knowing I did something good in life then just dying for no reason and having done nothing for no one.

The results so far are just the opposite.

Not all, maybe you should pay attention to the good side of Iraq for once in your life and realise that Kurds, Sunnis and Shiites are working together to create a better Gov't for all the Iraqi people and rebuilding Iraq. The problem is you refuse to see any of this cause it contradicts your beliefs.

The objective in Iraq was not to do good things in Iraq but to Fight the War on terrorism - remember. The idea Bush has settled on in Iraq and the greater Middle East is Democracy will end the terrorism. The election in Egypt and Lebanon has brought factions into power that want just the opposite and who oppose the governments in place that we can deal with today. The election in Iraq has brought the Islamic religious faction into the majority. The election in Palatine has brought a Terrorist group into controlling power and now Israel and the US refuses to deal with that newly elected government. HOW IS THAT solving the threat of terrorism?

The election in Iraq has brought the Islamic religious faction into the majority.

I though islam was the "religion of peace" col. Once again col, why do you ignore the successful elections? You are nothing but a liberal hack obsessed with Bush. Have you even written anything that doesn't start with "Bush"?

Have you at least asked transplanted local Muslims their thoughts regarding "equality", OBL and SH issues, I have.... The word "many" could apply to the equality issue is some countries, but not even close when it comes to voting, "improving freedoms", OBL and the fall of SH's regime. So, it might come down to glass half empty or half full perceptions, and I prefer the later. Most countries around the world today are moving towards more moderate beliefs, (which is documented I might add) as a result of the more moderate youths lacking willingness to accept historical limits.

I'd really like to read where Karen Hewes speaks of what your implying she learned. You have a link?

The demonstrations in Pakistan are nothing more then a reflection of the demonstrations in Iraq, Phillipines, even the US. Meaning, a "minority" of folks disagree for a variety of reasons. If motive of demonstrators were known the measure of total ideology would likely harm the radicals leaders overall intent for staging demonstrations. Sure those demonstrations reflect concern for civilian deaths, I wouldn't expect any less when collateral deaths occur. But, they don't reflect our overall support for being present in the region.

The CIA didn't kill anyone either. My guess is you're repeating what the press said, consider the source. Plus the press and you failed to include the measure of those in attendance where #2 was suppose to be. I am by no means saying all our actions in that region have been ideal, cause they haven't been. But over all, under the circumstances our offshore operatives and valued ground assets supplied the best Intel under the conditions that lead to that operation. If you're x-military then you know feeding time sensitive Intel through the ranks for action approval is troubling at the very least. Again, if x-military, you'd know "all" military actions lead by the CIA ground operatives are the result of Intel from ground assets and needs verification by Langley to some extent before operation approval when military ordinance is used. It's not a stretch to think in cases like that one, by the time the operation had internal backing, the fluidity of participants changed.

I am off the mind that using media sources regardless of subject matter or party affiliation will in most cases lack total truth. Furthermore, going back to square one is dreamy since nothing is perfect or ideal, no matter how many times we rethink our middle east intent. More importantly our strategy is "Freedom" and "fighting terrorism" not changing foreign cultures into extensions of America.

The election in Iraq has brought the Islamic religious faction into the majority.

True, and if you've actually read parts of the Koran and spoke with Muslims, you'd know that the actions of Muslim extremists, country aside, do not reflect how the majority of Muslims feel and live their lives. That historic election has more participants of differing views talking then ever expected. Which is a good thing.

The election in Palatine has brought a Terrorist group into controlling power

Once again, true. That happened because of the party in control was having trouble presenting a united trust to all which allow the more militant faction which is believed to have untainted intent into the process. What's likely to happen is Hamas with time will soften their position to some extent now that their participating in leadership, and more trust with come forth. Remember, Hamas, like certain groups in Iraq have been against their leadership. Now, both have a say in leadership. Again, a good thing if militant actions and behaviors give way to the greater good.

now Israel and the US refuses to deal with that newly elected government. HOW IS THAT solving the threat of terrorism?

Once again, true. Hamas has fostered terrorism for a variety of reasons. Their biggest supporters have been there because Hamas was untainted and acted upon idealisms. Taking leadership on the world front will change that, mark my words. I believe as a result there will be less terrorism conducted by Hamas, now that they have a control and the ears of the world. Also, with time and measure, combined with back door mediation hopefully Hamas' terrorist behavior will give way to more practical cultual visions.

I agree the potential to alter Hamas is possible. However, if Israel and the U S do not move forward with the withdrawal of Israel from the West bank and the establishment of a Palestine that can prosper, the violence will continue. Israel has been annexing territory by the path of the wall and building settlements outside the borders of Israel. That will create problems and if Israel and the U S will not talk with Hamas now that they are in power, how will the process move forward?

There is no reason for Israel to withdraw.

Yes it is called the Road Map to peace. Israel has no right to occupy the West Bank and to do so will perpetuate the unrest.

CNN is reporting violence has begun between Fatah and Hamas. The worst thing would be a civil war between these two factions as a result of the election.

I am off the mind that using media sources regardless of subject matter or party affiliation will in most cases lack total truth.

so you recommend what as an alternative source for total truth? scrying mirrors? visions? the oracle at new madrid?

However, if Israel and the U S do not move forward with the withdrawal of Israel from the West bank and the establishment of a Palestine that can prosper, the violence will continue

You do realize that you are asking us and Israel to conceed to the enemy just for peace? A group that understands withdraws as weakness, not a sign of searching for peace. Do you really think that Israel moving back will help the peace process? That will only make them think that gaining power in the Gov't has now given them an edge in getting what they want.

CNN is reporting violence has begun between Fatah and Hamas. The worst thing would be a civil war between these two factions as a result of the election.

and it's all bushes fault right gene?

CNN is reporting violence has begun between Fatah and Hamas. The worst thing would be a civil war between these two factions as a result of the election.

and it's all bushes fault right gene?

However, if Israel and the U S do not move forward with the withdrawal of Israel from the West bank and the establishment of a Palestine that can prosper, the violence will continue

True, however when such dramatic changes take place with in cultures, adjustment times are needed. Expecting anything immediate is naive and destructive. Once Hamas leadership is faced with actually making management decisions day to day for their country that's when they will be faced with real change themselves which means backing away from their extremist actions for a more tolerant cultural vision. It's known Hamas has some strong yet moderate leaders willing to talk. We know Hamas fosters death to Israel, and boundaries have little to do with their ideals. This thinking isn't likely to change, just set aside for the greater good of their countries future, that's leadership.

how will the process move forward?

Patience and time has to be given for influences to gel, and trust to be demonstrated, then slow change move. It's known to the world we will not negotiate with terrorists. It's also known we have influence with Israel. Through patience, our leadership will see Palistines Hamas leadership leaning to find leadership answers. That's when changing our views towards Palistine Hamas should occur fostering influence with Israel to come to grips with Hamas change, meaning they need to change too. As for the building of settlements, that to will be part of the change I speak of.

Israel has no right to occupy the West Bank and to do so will perpetuate the unrest.

Israel has the right to occupy. They won the land during the war.

CNN is reporting violence has begun between Fatah and Hamas. The worst thing would be a civil war between these two factions as a result of the election.

Wow col. Arabs demonstrating and it turns violent. Unheard of.

You actually seem excited at this "violence" col. I guess you rather just have a dictator in charge than a democratic process.

Yes it is called the Road Map to peace. Israel has no right to occupy the West Bank and to do so will perpetuate the unrest. CNN is reporting violence has begun between Fatah and Hamas. The worst thing would be a civil war between these two factions as a result of the election.

Hell, let them fight it out. It's their country. This past election showed the true character of the Palestinians. They are a people of hatred and violence.

As far as Israel having not right to occupy the West Bank, that's the way it goes. Until the Palestinians demonstrate they will be peaceful neighbors, Israel will continue the occupation. This little experiment in giving Palestinians in the Gaza Strip limited autonomy is a good indication of what would happen in the West Bank if Israel pulled out of there.

The arguments that the "Palestinians" are victims are BS. The Jews fought for the land while the Arabs fled and became the refugees now known as "Palestinians."

#20 by BenUser Friday, January 27, 2006

wow I agree with bendrooler, *faint* THUD!

You attitude is what has allowed Israel to occupy territory they should not have been in for over 45 years. I agree the Palestinians are a problem but Israel is also at fault. They MUST go back into their borders. They are violating international laws and we would not support ANY other country for doing the same thing. They can build all the walls they want so long as they do so in their borders. What do you think Mexico would say if we build a wall and included part of Mexico? Hell they do not want us to build a wall on our side of the border. We have a president that ignores our immigration laws and has done NOTHING after over 200 incursions by Mexicans into this country.

so you recommend what as an alternative source for total truth? scrying mirrors? visions? the oracle at new madrid?

The media has it's own distortions good and bad starting before the keyboards are struck. So, paying acute attention to any "one" will give distortions and some truths. Then you're left with determining where the truths are, which is a guessing game and judgment.

Understanding the truth doesn't come from extreme beliefs regardless of who voices them. It's comes from combining one extreme with the opposing extreme and truth for the majority (as in such cultural cases) falls somewhere in the middle. In the end, determining truths weighs on your values, morals, judgments, facts followed by understanding. To feel even more informed check out all the books written by scholars around the world, none of which are selling Dem vs. Rep agenda. Talk to people that have first hand insight, pass on theory as a truth source, and you will be faced with your own well founded opinions worthy of sharing regarding complex subjects. That's one man's opinion.

You attitude is what has allowed Israel to occupy territory they should not have been in for over 45 years.

Your posts are mis-leading because you don't say who your addressing or referencing. Why? .... "You attitude"

We have a president that ignores our immigration laws and has done NOTHING after over 200 incursions by Mexicans into this country.

WHAT THE *&%^$#% DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH ISRAEL AND HAMAS? CAN'T YOU STICK TO ONE TOPIC WITHOUT TRYING TO BASH BUSH ON MUTIPLE LEVELS AT THE SAME TIME? God.