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Galactic Civilizations: The case for no multiplayer

Galactic Civilizations: The case for no multiplayer

Not all strategy games benefit from multiplayer

Galactic Civilizations is the only Windows game I've ever worked on that isn't multiplayer. 

The first Windows game I developed, Entrepreneur, had multiplayer. It included a built-in chat area and match-making.  Stellar Frontier also had multiplayer -- up to 64 players on a persistent world.  The Corporate Machine had multiplayer.  The Political Machine had multiplayer.

In short, I've worked on a lot of multiplayer games.  Moreover, I play multiplayer games. As was pointed out on-line, I played Total Annihilation, Starcraft, Warcraft 3, and several other strategy games a great deal on-line in a "Ranked" capacity.  I've tried out nearly every major strategy game from Master of Orion 2 to HOMM 3 to Civ 3:PTW/Civ 4 multiplayer.

From this, I've concluded two things:

1) Some strategy games really benefit from a multiplayer component. Multiplayer extends their "fun" lifespan.

2) Some strategy games don't benefit from multiplayer and the sacrifices made for multiplayer lessened the overall experience.

To people who don't develop games, multiplayer may seem like a simple checkbox feature.  Indeed, many developers I've spoken to feel pressured to put multiplayer in because some reviewers will give the game a lower score if it lacks it despite the fact that for most strategy games, the percentage of players playing on-line is very low.

But multiplayer brings sacrifices that many people may not be aware of. Galactic Civilizations II was developed so that multiplayer could be added later (i.e. it passes messages back and forth).  But the gameplay was not.  We were not willing to sacrifice the single-player experience for multiplayer.

I'm going to give three reasons why multiplayer does not make sense in Galactic Civilizations as part of the base game.

#1 It sacrifices single player features.  Ask any game developer whether they be at Ensemble, Paradox, Firaxis, or Big Huge Games, most people play strategy games by themselves on a single computer.  What % that is depends on the game. But on a TBS game, I would wager that greater than 95% of players never play a single game on-line even if the option is available -- that includes Civilization IV.

But developing multiplayer is incredibly time-consuming and expensive. In our last game, The Political Machine, a full third of the budget was for multiplayer. The game was ideally suited for multiplayer, published by Ubi Soft it would sell a ton of copies.  The game came out and sure enough, only a tiny percent of people played the game multiplayer.  That tiny percent didn't justify the 33% budget dedicated to them.

My favorite game of 2005 was Civilization IV. It has multiplayer in it that is as good if not better than any implementation in the history of turn-based games.  But what was sacrificed in exchange?  There's no campaign.  There's no in-depth scenarios.  No in-depth random events.  You can only trade certain items and techs back and forth no matter what.  Do you think this is a coincidence?  No random civil wars based on certain criteria?  No war-causing assasinations? No crusades? Not even once in a long while?  I suspect that there were a lot of concepts and features that Civ IV would have had if it didn't have multiplayer.

When we were making Galactic Civilizations II, we took a poll on multiplayer. Only a small percentage of GalCiv I players cared about it.  We took additional polls since multiplayer advocates were so vocal.  Same thing.

So instead, Galactic Civilizations II got ship design and a campaign.   I think most people would agree that we could have taken GalCiv I, slapped a 3D engine on it, given it multiplayer and been in good shape.  But can anyone who's played the beta imagine the game without ship design?  And when you play the campaign, I think you'll find that was worth it too.

Moreover, players get a lot more single player experience.  There are rare events that players may only see once in a great while but they're worth it -- a religions war that breaks empires in pieces. New republics formed from remnants of shattered civilizations.  Civil wars. Precursor ships found on worlds. Powerful artifacts that slowly increase the power of a given civilization so that everyone has to team up on them. Terrorists. On and on.  In multiplayer, this would all have to be turned off, but then again, if there had been multiplayer, whey develop any of this at all if it wasn't always going to be used?

Similarly, there's diplomacy.  Last night, I played as the galactic arms dealer.  The Drengin and Torians were at war and I was supplying both sides with ships for money. I then took that money and slowly bought up the worlds of dying civilizations.  That kind of flexibility in diplomacy would be a nightmare in multiplayer, you'd have to put all kinds of restrictions in the name of balance.

#2 The majority ends up subsidizing the minority. Outside some game reviewers and people who have friends who are really into this stuff, most people don't know other people on-line to play these games with.  And let's face it, playing a turn-based strategy game with strangers is an excercise in frustration (I am not sure I've ever actually managed to complete a TBS on-line without the other player either dropping or quitting prematurely).

Galactic Civilizations II is $40. Not $50.  That $10 may not seem like a lot to some people but to many gamers it makes a difference.  Check out the prices on the latest multiplayer strategy games -- they're $49.99.  Part of that price is to subsidize the multiplayer component that only a tiny percentage of users will play.

If there's sufficient demand for multiplayer, we'll do it -- but as an expansion.  Those who want multiplayer can then buy it and those who don't aren't forced to pay for it.  And everyone wins because they saved $10 in the first place.

Because of the Metaverse, GalCiv II already has multiplayer plumbing.  We even have a multiplayer design.  But it'll cost money and time to implement it. So if there's demand, we'll do it. But it has to be demand in raw numbers, not just vocalness of the people who want it.

#3 It would have changed the design priorities.

When you design from the start to be a good multiplayer experience you have to make sure the game is streamlined -- particular the interface.  So things that might slow the multplayer pacing tend to come out.

Galactic Civilizations has lots of mini-cut scenes in it.  Things to help the player enjoy and savor the civilization they've created. The technology tree is huge and designed to linger through and pick just the right one.  The ship design is full of extras that are there so that players can make cool looking ships.  The battle screen was implemented to be not just functional but fun to watch. The planetary details screens include quotes from random citizens and there's flavor text all over.  Each civilization has its own vocabulary based on who it is talking to (i.e. how a Torian talks to a Terran is different than how they would talk to a Drengin).

But a good multiplayer game has to be far more streamlined. You don't want to have core features that encourage users to do anything but move their units and make their decisions efficiently.  Take a look carefully at any decent multiplayer games recently and notice how efficient they are.  Efficient is great in a multiplayer game.  But in a single player game, there is something to be said I think for inefficiency -- for fluff.

And because we designed the game from the ground up to be a single player experience, Galactic Civilizations II has a LOT of fluff:

The screenshot below, I designed all the ships in this particular game. Every new game I make new ships. Why? Because it's fun. It's not efficient though from a sheer "get to the next turn quickly" point of view:

And what's the point of sitting there watching your ships battle it out?

In fact, there's a ton of things that involve reading quite a bit of text. There's a lot of customization within the game that has no "point" other than to let players indulge in the civilization they've created.

It's not that a game with multiplayer can't have these things. Civilization IV has the Civpedia for instance.  But the tendancy in a good multiplayer game is to move the text and other stuff out of the way during gameplay and out to a place where it's looked at at ones leisure.  And that's a good idea in a multiplayer designed game.

But these days, nearly all games are designed with multiplayer in mind.  And for people who have no shortage of choices on multiplayer, it's nice to have a good old fashioned single player experience where you can sit down and indulge yourself to the full experience. 

I remember a game called Master of Magic back in the early 90s. It was a great game. But it was only a great game because it was single-player.  The things that made it really neat would have been a disaster in multiplayer. 

And that's really the point -- multiplayer is a feature. Sometimes it makes sense and sometimes it doesn't.  In some RPGs sometimes they're better being single player (Knights of the Old Republic) and sometimes they're better being multiplayer (Neverwinter Nights).

For those who think multiplayer is a must in strategy games I hope this post has at least made the case that maybe sometimes multiplayer doesn't belong in the base game. 

We know how to make multiplayer games. We had the budget to make GalCiv II a multiplayer game if we wanted. We like multiplayer games.  But we felt that GalCiv II would be a better game if multiplayer was not part of the base game. 

 

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Reply #326 Top
Reading that sentence clearly shows you want an equal or near equal opponent... this will not happen with AI opponents only human opponents.

If you know any computer programming you will know that this type of AI will not happen within our lifetime. It will be unlikely even your grandchildren would see this type of AI within a game.
Unfortunately most gaming companies, developers and publishers are focusing on graphics... it's nice Stardock has given more effort than most companies on the AI.
You misunderstood what I was asking for. Have you ever played the AI on the hardest level on a good Chess game? If you have I am sure you usually lose. The AI takes every possible advantage possible in the scope of the game to win. I want an AI that can do the same thing in the scope of GC2. I am not talking about creating an AI that mimics a human being which would be quite a feat, just one that works in the relatively small set of rules in GC2 (versus the complicated rules of life and our brain).
Reply #327 Top
I know plenty of people who don't buy games because the developers concentrate on the multiplayer aspect and then bolt on a terrible single player side as filler. These games would be sooooo much better if they forgot the multiplayer and stuck with a good SP experience. Many people would buy them if they put the SP first, instead of the multiplayer. Those companies would get more money from the SP people, and I'm sure that makes good business sense.

^ Notice what I did there?
Reply #328 Top
You misunderstood what I was asking for. Have you ever played the AI on the hardest level on a good Chess game? If you have I am sure you usually lose. The AI takes every possible advantage possible in the scope of the game to win. I want an AI that can do the same thing in the scope of GC2.


Programming smart AI for Chess is a million times easier compared with programming AI for a game like GC_2.

Chess is played with only two players, a small handful of units on a small board/map.
Galatic Civilization_2 is played with many players, with diplomacy options, different unique board/map, many unique buildings, many unique resources, with unique computer personalities, with lots of different units, and the list goes on and on.
Developing challenging AI for Chess compared with developing a challenging AI for todays fantasy / Sci-Fi strategy games is the same as a human mind solving 4 digit by 4 digit multiplication math problem compared with solving a 3000 digit by 3000 digit multiplication math problem. As I mentioned before this will not happen within our lifetime.
Reply #331 Top
I have been playing Stardock multiplayer games(namely steller frontier)and I use many stardock products and as a gammer and a pc user I throughly enjoy a good single player game with a deep campaing and develovped civilations, events, and tech trees. It is wonderfull that the crators of glatic civ poll their players to see what they would like. I trust the judgedment of stardock in the decisions it makes with it's games (except the steller aces ) because it is one of the few game producers that sticks to doing one thing and that is Making damn good games.
Reply #332 Top
All I ask for is Hotseat...I really don't care about any other form of Multiplayer. I unfortunately didn't read the box before I bought the game, assuming that ANY space strategy game come with at least hotseat as default. Now, it's to late. I can't return the game cause it has a CD-Key of sorts, so now i'm stuck with a game that's fun for a few hours, then gets dull. It's a nice single player game, but I just don't enjoy these games without playing with my friends...
Reply #334 Top
I dont' even think that you need to make a case for multiplayer, it should come with the game. Also play by email is a blast as well. Where were this options? THey belong in a game like this period.
Reply #335 Top
It's been a long time since I was here.

I bought Gal Civ 1 way back but lost interest after a couple of games, the game had lots of potential but as is often the case SP games become predictable.

I hoped at the time that multiplayer would be added in the future and I check every now and then here (usually after a newsletter) to see if it's on a new version. The unpredictabilty of human v human play really expands the entertainment value and life of many games and can work really well in TBS games.

A few friends bought Gal Civ 1 at the same time as me and they quickly lost interest too. I am not knocking SP and the AI was good from memory on Gal Civ but MP really opens many more options.

The next game due out that we are looking at for MP play is Space Empires 5 but like I said earlier I still check here in hope.
Reply #336 Top
Well if you bought it when it came out, it might be worth another game or two.... the updates have made a big difference, trust me. I know it's not multiplayer, but the AI is perceptibly smarter. You might as well get a bit more out of your investment.
Reply #337 Top
Exactly... how many multiplayer gamers will be visiting a singleplayer game website to vote? Stardock should consider all potential customers not just those from this singleplayer fishbowl. I'm one of the few which visit and comment since I do both multiplayer and singleplayer, but I don't buy games which are missing multiplayer. From what I've been reading this game is great and I will gladly buy the full copy and expansion when multiplayer is made available.


Same here. I completely missed the poll and the only reason I keep coming once in a while is to see if there's any update related to multiplayer.

Another unfortunate decision Stardock has made is that if they add multiplayer it will be an ALL or NOTHING multiplayer package. So instead of Stardock spending 1.5 slots to add Hotseat and PBEM they feel the need to add everything multiplayer which means Hotseat, LAN, Online, PBEM, Multiplayer Diplomacy features, Multiplayer in_game chats, and multiplayer game balance for a total of 4 out of 5 slots.


I'd be curious to know why that 'all or nothing' decision was made? It seems logical that most multiplayer fans would only be interested in the slower multiplayer types.

Hotseat and PBEM would satisfy at least 70% of those asking for multiplayer !


The only type of multiplayer I'd like to see is some kind of PITBOSS multiplayer. That could replace PBEM and (possibly) Hotseat IMO.

Note: Pitboss refers to a multiplayer type in which all players log into a server (ran by one of the players) to take their turns. Every xx hours / days the server than goes onto the next turn.
Reply #338 Top
I agree with a lot of what's been said about multiplayer, but teaming up with my lover and double teaming the compuer in rts games has been a favorite past time of ours for ages, and I thought of a limited multiplayer that could maybe enabled realativly easily in the future?

Imagine i being very limited in the number of players, lets say only 2 can LAN and are forced to be on the same team, (vs the computer obviously)

They then manage their civilizations normally, with turn based being both of their turns being done simultanously and when one clicks end turn, it wiats for the other before giving the computer it;s turn.

This way both players are doin the susual upkeep, expansion, fleet postioning, etc.. at the same time and aren't bored silly waiting around for the other player. (then when you're done if you're partner needs more time you can go design star ships, plan out your tech tree or whatever for the extra few mintues.)

This would cut down on needed game changes immensely since all you're really doing is expanding the players turn to enable 2 player controlled civilzations to act on the same turn.
Reply #339 Top
As a developer that has coded and supported a multiplayer virtual world for the past five years I completely sympathize with the amount of work it takes to develop a multiplayer game.

Single player games rarely entertain me more than a couple weeks (most often a single day). I like the social aspect of playing with other players. My life is busy and it's hard to allocate time to just sit and play by myself.

Multiplayer games however usually stay interesting for years. Unfortunately very few games have decent multiplayer functionality. I also play mostly with just my group of friends (so meeting idiots online isn't a problem).

The major flaw I see in almost all multiplayer games is the lack of cooperative play. Most of them want you to play against each other. The other major lack in multiplayer games is a lack of a "campaign" mode (the campaign features are almost always only available in single player). I want GalCiv II where my friends can play in the same universe but primarily as allies not enemies. What's the point of making cool 3D ships if your friends can't see them?
Reply #340 Top
Just a quick post to counterbalance all the "please add multiplayer" posts I see here - I guess this topic isn't supposed to be a poll, but anyway. THANK YOU for NOT having made GalcivII a multiplayer game!

This "feature" is actually one of the main reasons why I DON'T buy a game: every time, the single player part of this game is inconsistent or spoiled, because 1) developpers had to monopolize 50% of their work for multiplayer 2) they had to design the whole game to make it playable online (balance, mechanisms, time-scales, display...). Bah, Frogboy explained that very well in the first post of this thread, he obviously has more clue than I do, so :x

Why the hell is multiplayer so praised!? I don't care about competing (I have to at work all week long, thanks), I don't care about playing a video game with friends either (particularly not such a complex and long-paced game)... That sounds a little harsh, sorry, ofc I understand some people do like competition, cooperation, call that "human challenge", but I just don't, not in a video-game. And about ALL the strategy games out there are multiplayer already, I can't see the point of changing the game to do the same.
Reply #341 Top
I find Bleral's comments interesting because most of the games I've seen have multiplayer slapped on without any development as if they don't expect anyone to play it but just wanted the feature listed. Most games "multiplayer" is a joke. But for those rare good games being able to play with others (not against them) it makes the games far, far more interesting.

Why is multiplayer interesting? Because single player becomes a routine exercise of watching pixels move around on your screen. Good multiplayer creates an enjoyable social experience.
Reply #342 Top
When I want a social experience, I move away from my PC.
Reply #344 Top
i am not begging for multi player but my ai's are
Reply #345 Top
I for one would love to see a multiplayer version of Galciv2 at some future date. I feel it would add a lot to the community as a whole bringing players in that normally wouldn't play. The online gamers community has become very huge. Now my fantasy personally would be to see a new Galciv made that was totally online. This is of course no easy task, like FrogBoy says, it is not a matter of check boxes it has to built into the game from the ground up.

With that said I understand why its not gonna happen. It is sad of course but the costs involved and risks simply don't warrant making it at this time.
Reply #347 Top
After playing this game for several months I must say that I appreciate the effort that went into the single player game. This is one of the best turn based 3X games I've played. The detail is just right not too much micro-management, but plenty of options.

Having said that, I would also like to be able to share the experience with friends with multiplayer. I don't play any on-line games (due to dial-up), but would really appreciate a LAN based multiplayer add-on.

The current poll concerning multiplayer support is looking promising with approximately half the responses feeling multi-player is important to vital. Here's hoping for multiplayer sometime next year.
Reply #348 Top
I apologize for not reading all seven pages of the arguments but I suspect i'm getting the gist. I come to GalCiv 2 from MOO 2, and practiaclly the only MOO 2 I play is multiplayer. Having been playing GalCiv 2 for about 9 months now i've reached the point where its more or less lost interest for me. the primary reasons are:

1. I don't use the fluff. I don't design "fluff" my ships, i don't watch cut scenes, i don't read tech descriptions (i read them all/watched them all in the first month).

2. I'm to the point where the game is either too easy or to hard. Challenging i can win every time unless i deliberately build a useless race, and the next difficulty level requires too much concentration to be relaxing.

3. I don't play the campaign. I played the first 4 missions before losing interest. I find TBS campaigns to be silly, lacking realism and fun. I don't play TBS to see a tiny part of the picture, if i'm going to get involved with a war against the dread lords i want to have the galaxy in front of me, all my resources lined up, and run the war MY way, not the way the designers want me to.

4. No multiplayer. This is the killer. i play games with a couple of my friends on the LAN once a week. its my only really extended gaming time. We play MOO 2, CIV II, etc.



Don't get me wrong, I think GalCiv 2 is THE best 4x game out there right now, but its staying power is compromised by the lack of ability or me to be social while playing, and my budget can't pay for games that are only going to last me 9 months.
Reply #349 Top
Nine months? I'm just about at that point now after only one month.
Reply #350 Top
Since the development of a multiplayer component for GalCiv2 would cost additional time/money and has the potential to detract from the single player experience I'd say let it be an expansion.

Personally, I would never consider purchasing some games (Unreal Tournament, Counter Strike, etc) that required a seperate purchase for multiplayer play. But for a game like Galactic Civilizations 2, I'd much rather have a solid single player game like you have developed with a sweet AI.

I'd consider multiplayer online play. I don't feel it is necessary with GalCiv2. How does a software developer know the difference (when should multiplayer be included and when should it be an expansion)? That's a judgement call. It really depends on the intent of the game. For the software developer I'd say error on the side of including it. Oh, and if the intent is to simply rip off gamers for some extra money .. most of us will smell that and avoid supporting such a developer.

Examples of Games Played Where I Feel MP is Integral:
- Diablo
- Unreal Tournament series
- Warcraft series
- Counter-Strike (not Half-Life)
- Worms series
- Risk (and other board games)
- Civ series

Examples of Games Played Where I Feel SP is Fine:
- Max Payne
- Galactic Civilizations II (but perhaps not 1 where SP not as solid)
- Sim City series
- Trainz
- Myst series
- Medal of Honor Allied Assault
- Enter the Matrix (heck, they didn't even need to make this one

Now .. these are just my opinions .. and just like a..holes everyone has one. Big thing to remember, if you intend GalCiv2 to get taken up by the MOD community and really take off there better be a MP option somewhere or you might as well forget about that.

My 2 cents.