Why are there so many poor?

Looking at the reasons WHY would not produce the simple answer - It is the fault of the poor that they are poor. These storms have shown just how many poor there are in this country and how little these people have to meet the BASIC needs of life. We should to help all the poor except for the LACK OF WILL group. Even the people in the LACK OF WILL group need to be encouraged to change their outlook.

I am so shocked to say this, I basically agree with you, I'm sure as this thread moves on, our disagreement will be in the number of those that are in the lack of will group.

I agree that these hurricanes have ripped the welfare band aid off the poverty problem in america, and I agree that it's terribly sad.

However.....you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink, Gene.  You can offer people all the opportunities in the world, but THEY are the ones that have to take advantage of said opportunities and be willing to help themselves out. 

I'm not sure that raising the minimum wage of even having a living wage is going to help.  Making the menial jobs pay better isn't going to encourage people to better themselves....why bother going to school to become a nurse (for example) when you can make almost as much clerking at a grocery store?

Thank you SO much for not mentioning Bush in this post.  It's very refreshing....

Hear, hear GREAT post Col. and not one word of Bush bash. Frankly, I'm amazed. I am sorry to say though that I have no compassion for those with lack of will. The rest I would help in any way I could. I've been on that side of the fence. I didn't care for it so I made changes for the better.

Even those with "lack of will" have children. Are those children responsible for the poverty into which they were born? Hell no. But, unless targeted educational opportunities are provided, they will likely never learn that they can rise above the plight of poverty. I'm not talking about the public schools alone. Besides, it's no secret that public schools in inner cities and other poor areas are not equitable with schools in more affluent areas. Why? I suspect a whole bunch of reasons, including a poverty mindset, lack of good teachers in those areas, poor and dilapidated facilities, just to name a few.

As for the other reasons, a study was recently done that shows that half of all bankrupsies are filed because of the dire straits that a medical catastrophe has cost a family. But, the Congress could give a rat's ass. They pass legislation that does nothing to protect people from medical catastrophes, and instead come up with a bankrupsy legislation bill that only serves to protect the banks, who have made their money off the insane interest rates accumulated from people who maybe missed a payment or two. It's obscene.

Of course, this non-living wage thing is quite the controversy lately. The dubya assholes give most of the technical clean-up and repair contracts to their friends, ie Halliburton and Bechtel, withot bid requirements, I might add. The contracts are worth billions of dollars. Dubya, in all his insane glory, has passed a directive that the contractors no longer are bound by Davis-Bacon acts, thereby releasing them from paying prevailing wages, otherwise federally required in federal contracts. But, do you think that Halliburton, et al will get less money to undertake the contracts? Hell no. They just pay the workers less than a living wage, and of course they get to pocket the difference. What a corporate give-away that was. Let the workers starve.

And of course, there are natural disasters. Katrina exposed our poverty dirty secret to the world. But, people will always be poor. Now, they are not just poor, they are destitute. No jobs. No homes. No cars. No place to go, except for the fortunate few who managed to be taken in by some exceptionally giving soul. These people are now destitute, regardless whether the government gives em a $2K credit card. We all know that $2K is chump change in this society. It will not buy a house. It may provide a few months of rent. It will not provide anything lasting. Do some of them abuse their money? Of course. But so freakin' what? Most, I'm sure do not. They are just trying to figure out how to feed their families.

Col, most people don't choose to be poor. They are stuck with the situation. It sucks, and they get caught in the vicious cycle of poverty. And poverty begets poverty.

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. Who gets to go where? Who gets the flooded New Orleans lands? Who gets the contracts to rebuild? What will be rebuilt? How will it all get paid for?

Some other thoughts -

Lack of education. - It's hard to make a living without at least a high school diploma or GED.

Teenage pregnancy -

Childcare issues - If you are working a lower paying job and trying to pay for childcare it's almost a wash. I know there are some subsudized childcare programs but I do think this is a huge issue for single mothers.

Drug and Alchohol Dependency - The majority of jobs do drug testing now even McDonald's. If you have a drug addiction, it's hard to find a job.

Single Parent Households

Family Legacy - It seems to me that many of the poor were raised in a poor household and to them that is the normal way to live.

The causes are many, the question who is going to decide if someone has a "legitimate" reason for being poor or if they are just suffering from "lack of will".

I just hate to see poor people villified. Most of us would never want to be in their shoes. I would hate to have to live in the conditions they live in, buy groceries for a family using only food stamps, feel hopeless but know that other people are judging me as "lazy and useless" no matter how hard I work to change my circumstances.

I was holding my breath until someone mentioned the failure of Great Society, but my face was turning purple.

The United States is one of the only countries in the world where its poor are dying from obesity.

Why are so many people poor? For starters, an entire underclass is being imported from Latin America to underbid salaries. Then there is rampant substance abuse, low IQ's, and mental illness.

Besides, it's no secret that public schools in inner cities and other poor areas are not equitable with schools in more affluent areas. Why? I suspect a whole bunch of reasons, including a poverty mindset, lack of good teachers in those areas, poor and dilapidated facilities, just to name a few.

Do you have statistics to compare ghetto students who are bused to more affluent areas to those who stay in their own neighborhoods?

We define poor as being a certain % from the medium income.  There will always be "poor" just like there will always be "cold" weather because they are defined in relativistic terms.  Today's poor are rich compared to the wealthy a century ago.

Just like there are many reasons WHY people are poor there are many possible ways to help. The key for the future, now that the storms have shown us just how many are poor, WHAT will we do to help those that can not help themselves and how will we attempt to help people to change their attitude and provide more self help. I do know more tax cuts will do little for the poor since the poor pay no taxes. Free land without the money to build a home on the land will do no good. I do however support targetred tax cuts to help small business recover and help provide needed work. That will only help a VERY small percent of those in need. In a like mannor, although we must rebuild the infastructure, that will not eliminate or even reduce the numbers of the poor. I have not heard any effective suggestions to deal with the poor. That will be the real test of these natural disasters. Could GOD be asking us to do something for the poor?

Draginol

The issue is not the % that are poor. The issue is can that % afford to live, even though they fall into the bottom 25% . Today the answer is HELL NO.

I knew somebody had to bring up Halliburton. Typical.

I have not heard any effective suggestions to deal with the poor. That will be the real test of these natural disasters. Could GOD be asking us to do something for the poor?

The only people that can help the poor are themselves. Aside from people with physical or mental disabilities, being poor is a choice. People choose to spend what money they have on a 50 Cent cd, instead of food for their children. Or they continue to have children when they can't afford them.

Today's poor are rich compared to the wealthy a century ago.

Tell that to those who cannot afford health care for a sick child. Tell that to an elderly person who must decide whether to eat or take meds. Tell that to a parent who has no money to buy a decent meal for his/her kids. Tell them that they should not be bitching and moaning today because a century ago they maybe would have been worse off. Tell them that, and see how far you'd get, particularly given that the wealthy are also much more wealthy today than they were a century ago. Not to mention that the divide between the two is bigger today than it ever was. Yeah, draginol, tell em that.

Island Dog

You are DEAD wrong. Many of the poor can not help themselves. For many there is no work or the work that is available does not pay a living wage. People that are beyond their working years and have lost everything. It is FAR more then just the people with physical or mental issues that need HELP. Your response is the conservative attitude - It is the poor's fault thay are poor. It is time do follow through with the promises President Bush made to help the poor in his speech on September 15th, 2005 in New Orleans. The children of the poor did not ask to be born and are too young to work. They need our help.

It is time do follow through with the promises President Bush made to help the poor in his speech on September 15th, 2005 in New Orleans.

GWB trying to follow in the footsteps of the last Texan in the White House - Great Society Part II.
Col. Gene & Dabe...find a less pretentious way to absolve yourself of your (white) guilt.

And to all you advocates of the medically uninsured, round up all the god damn illegals in this country and you'll cut that figure by at least half.

GP, I have no "white guilt". Besides, I'm blue.

GP, I have no "white guilt". Besides, I'm blue.

Sorry. Your Marxist-Leninist-inspired Jew-liberal guilt.

GP

I agreee we should deal with the illegals but the Bush administration just wants to make them legal. Then they can continue to get help. His budget request to Congress contains the funding request for 200 of the 10,000 border guards he claims are needed. How does he expect to hire the other 9,800?

You're not going to get me to praise GWB. I can't stand the guy or his policies. He's got America involved in a war to bring democracy to a bunch of largely illiterate cousin-loving Mohammedan savages. They are a backward, despicable people, desireable as neither friends nor foes, and should be completely segregated from the rest of the world.

On illegals, the Democrats have somehow managed to do even worse than Dubya. They want eventual citizenship for all the illegals so they can crowd into American voting booths and welfare offices, even more so than they already are. The difference between the Dumb-o-rats and the Re-puke-licans is the speed at which they are selling out their country. The former wants it quickly while the latter prefers to draw it out. At least the Donkeys are open about their hatred for America. The Elephants try to mask it behind the flag.

Sorry. Your Marxist-Leninist-inspired Jew-liberal guilt.

f*ck you

f*ck you

How eloquent. How's this -- same to you, douche bag.

dabe

I grew up in a single parent family with four children, we lived from a mid three digit monthly income, lived in the back of a station wagon, or a house with milk crates and old sleeping bags for furniture most my childhood. All but one of the children have found ourselves within the middle class today. The last has chosen to remain there. I will respond to this one using my personal experiences:

Tell that to those who cannot afford health care for a sick child.

ANY child (legal or illegal) can simply go to a public hospital when sick and get free health care. They will not be turned away. This myth that there is no health care for the children or poor is just that, a myth that the political socialist tell their follower to drum up support. Have you ever wondered why people complain about illegals getting free health care? This is the same system how they get it.

Tell that to an elderly person who must decide whether to eat or take meds.

My mother gets her meds from the Salvation Army, and meals from the "Meals on Wheals" programs and the local food pantry. She was place on these programs and is constantly monitored by the neighborhood senior center. It is only when an elderly person has placed enough money into savings to afford living, food and meds that these programs are not available. Just go to the local senior center and ask (as I did with my mother) and you would be surprised at what programs that are available.

Tell that to a parent who has no money to buy a decent meal for his/her kids.

Now what is your idea of a decent meal? Growing up we ate noodles, canned meat, canned vegetables, canned fruit, milk, butter, and homemade bread. All of which we picked up at the local Government free issue center (one of the best programs ever). Now that old system has been replaced in most states with a credit card system that allows you to only buy specific commodities. These commodities are usually marked on the shelf at the local supermarket. Check it out some time. I also always received a free lunch at school, until I got so embarrass in high school that I got a part time job to buy my own lunches off campus. The meals I eat as a child was not McDonalds or Twinkies. A soda pop was most likely a Shasta once a week (unlike the Cokes that I see people buy with food stamps today). It all depend on what your idea of decent is. I ate a balance meal, almost completely for free. But because it was not a great meal, it gave me the will power not of continue my life living that way. If I wanted to have could living like that I know I could have. I know because my sister still does, by choice.

particularly given that the wealthy are also much more wealthy today than they were a century ago.

So? The wealthy are wealthy because they (or their parents like the Kennedy's, Kerry's, ect..) worked for it. I someday want to be wealthy too and don't want other people demanding that I fork over all my “surplus money” when I get there, just to put me back where I was in the first place. It is the wealthy that pays most of my salary, it is the wealthy that employs my wife and best friends. When I get old and wealthy after a life time of work I will employ hard working people too. I have said this many times, that a wealthy person stays wealthy because he invest the money in jobs and companies. Those who just place the money under a rock, will not be wealthy for long.

What has ticked my off is the people like Jesse Jackson who have pressured FEMA to keep the poorest evacuees bottled up in places like the Superdome in Texas and not sent to other communities through out the US. These are the evacuees most likely could not find a job in the New Orleans slums, even if they had the will to take one. Here in Reno we where scheduled to host 300 of them. Before FEMA was pressured to stop the move by Jackson and his like. The local community here had well over three hundred employers offering jobs, over one hundred vacant apartments offered for families (more was being arranged) that landlords was offering for no rent until a later date given by FEMA, and literally diesel truck loads of items (i.e. cloths, toys, furniture....) donated by the local people.

They say it was to keep a community together. I say it was to keep them in poverty and a place where they are dependent on the new "Man" (i.e. Social Racist). This was their chance to pull themselves out of the cycle of poverty that was built in New Orleans and keep them sitting in the Superdome wearing out their welcome in a concentrated area of Texas. Of the six hundred that was moved to Utah before the program of relocation was stopped, a poll showed that 80% was not going to return to New Orleans. IMO the city of New Orleans should be reduce into a tourist trap along Baurban Street and the rest should be returned to the Mississippi river. The Levees system has failed a second time and will fail again.

It is just a shame that when an oppertunity to move out of poverty into a new life is give, it is those who have cried about them being poor for so many years, that are the one now trying to keep them poor.

That's My Two Cents

The wealthy can also afford to pay higher taxes to help stop borrowing money that in the long run will add to the Federal spending due to higher intetest on the growing debt. We are borrowing money so we can cut taxes to people that have more then they need. We cut taxes because we were told there was a Surplus that proved we were overtaxing the public. When it became clear there was NO surplus, the tax cuts should have ended.

Col, there are plenty of jobs available for those who want to work. The problem is most do not want to work. I have been out there col, and seen the way most poor people live. Like I said before, they can afford cell phones, rap cds, etc., but when it comes to real things like food or clothing....."I got no money".

" The wealthy can also afford to pay higher taxes to help stop borrowing money that in the long run will add to the Federal spending due to higher intetest on the growing debt"

What's the difference between borrowing money and stealing it from the general population? Borrowing is honest. Taxation with no accountability is simply stealing.

When you spend more than you earn, you either cut back on waste or go get a second job. Demanding your neighbors supplement your income isn't an option for a sane person.

being poor is a choice.

Only for monks, nuns and others inspired by religious or bohemians ideas. Now, if you were to say that the poor were poor through making poor choices, that is a (subtly) different thing.

Yes, the Left is correct. Society is inherently unequal and unfair. But so is life. Every attempt to violently transform society into something more equal and fair has always brought misery almost beyond imagination.

Yes, the Right is correct. Even when dealt a bad hand it is your responsibility to try and do something about that if you really want to. Where the Right is wrong is when its compassion gets short-circuited by its self righteousness.

The fact of the matter is those of us who enjoy good living standards do so through a mixture of wise choices, hard work and more good luck than we can honestly claim credit for.

I consider myself a moderate on this issue. I do believe that taking personal responsibility rather than being dependent is correct not only politically, but spiritually and morally. That sounds conservative, but I also intensely dislike "the useless feckless poor deserve their fate" mentality of some conservatives - the ones that make 'compassionate conservative' seem an oxymoron. The words "I have no compassion for..." deny 2,000 years of Christian culture more surely than any Marxist-Leninist.

Island Dog

During the past 4 1/2 years 6 million NEW workers came into the work force and we created less then 4 million new jobs. Many of the jobs that are available pay less then a living wage. A good example is the WalMart ad that claims they pay an average of $9 per hour. That is less then $19,000 per year assuming the person works 40 hours a week. In addition, many jobs do not have health or retirement benefits. Try and live on $19,000 per year. If the job pays minimum wage, you make about $11,000 per year. Many of the jobs you talk about are jobs like this.

BakerStreet

Borrowing more and more money and being obligated to pay more interest EVERY year to give tax cuts to the wealthy is nuts. When you spend more then you earn and can not break even after cutting spending, you increase your income. For government that means higher taxes. For individuals it means a better paying job or a second job. The wrong thing for a person or a country to do is just go deeper and deeper into debt.